Upgrade to 6 ballast pumps

[mattsask]

Has anyone doubled up on pumps yet, like they are doing with the 18's? I'm pretty much maxed out on liquid ballast in my craz, so my fill/drain times are quite long winded. Has anyone else done or considered doing this yet? Any suggestions?

1. Can I run all 6 pumps on the 3 factory switches?

2. I'm thinking I will likely have to separate the floor tank and the IBS and put each on their own pump. Do you guys see any potential issue with that?

3. I think I remember drew tinker making a comment on the fb page, that said they still only use 3 through hulls for the 6 pump system. He said the pumps pretty much draw as much water as they need. Does this seem accurate to you guys?

Any comments or suggestions would be helpful.

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[dakota4ce]

Considering the same. I do believe that a single mushroom can easily feed two pumps.

2016 SE450


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[That Guy]

I had the same thought when demoing the Max this summer, following.

[dakota4ce]

I have a phone call with Michael Sims from Mikes Liquid Audio on my to do list. He will give me the skinny. BUT, I think splitting the line from the thru hull to feed to pumps is just fine. From there, it might be advisable to feed the bag with each pumps own dedicated line.

Wiring wise, need to figure out amp draw of those pumps. If together they are less than the wiring gauge and breaker can handle, I would think same switch is fine.

Doubling rear ballast fill rate would be so nice.


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[mattsask]

Keep us posted on what MLA tells you.

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[trayson]

my understanding is that they have a relay system in the new boats with the 6 pump system because the amp draw of 3 more pumps is more than the wiring system can handle w/o a relay...

[trayson]

Has anyone doubled up on pumps yet, like they are doing with the 18's? I'm pretty much maxed out on liquid ballast in my craz, so my fill/drain times are quite long winded. Has anyone else done or considered doing this yet? Any suggestions?

1. Can I run all 6 pumps on the 3 factory switches?

2. I'm thinking I will likely have to separate the floor tank and the IBS and put each on their own pump. Do you guys see any potential issue with that?

3. I think I remember drew tinker making a comment on the fb page, that said they still only use 3 through hulls for the 6 pump system. He said the pumps pretty much draw as much water as they need. Does this seem accurate to you guys?

Any comments or suggestions would be helpful.

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when the question was posed to Goose (that works for Skiers Choice) to explain some details about the 6 pump system on the Max, he said the following:


Good question. With the 6 pump system, we are actually only using 3 thru hulls and splitting the line to each pump. In our testing, we found with the impellor pumps, they will pull the water they need and while it may not be 100% efficient, it was more efficient and more feasible than to install 6 thru hulls in the bottom of the boat. Not sure if you have looked, but we are running out of real estate in the bilge area. I have a feeling you might be asking this because you want to do this yourself for your 2017 Pro?? If that is the case, then yes, anything is possible, but we did also relocate both front pumps to be mounted on a panel in front of the front ballast tank. We had to slightly modify the front ballast tank to make room. Obviously we also had to change wiring and we actually power the 6 pumps through 3 different relay based boxes. Again, anything is possible and I have seen other people do similar modifications to their current boats so if that was the reason for your question, hopefully that answers some of the technical details.

[dakota4ce]

So based on this answer, we are still not sure. It really just depends on the capacity of the current wiring. Relays almost always make sense, which is probably one of the reasons they did that.


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[MLA]

I would not expect the switch/pump to pump wiring to be ample enough to support 2 impeller pumps. On the 6 pump setup, id suspect that each pump's harness is home run from the pump to the switch/relay output.

So adding supplementary pumps to an existing single pump system, you would want to supply each new pump with its own harness from the source.

As too the switches. Whether these are traditional mechanical DPDT rocker switches or touch screen controlled through the helm system, I would not want to parallel a 2nd impeller pump to each output. This can be 60A peak and about a 40A constant current draw. This will overload a Carling rocker for sure. I would convert the switch to a SPDT and use relays for both pumps.

If touch screen controlled, there is a good chance they are using a relay assembly to control the polarity reversal of the pump and the relay packs low side input is controlled by the PSB helm system. This would be most ideal for adding that 2nd pump. Just need to wire the other relay assembly input in parallel to the existing pump relay assembly input.

[PuraVida]

Following.... I did a bit of research on my 16.
Looks like each pump needs 20 amps of fuse and uses 11.5 amps. Currently the controller pictured below is fused to 60 amps. In an ideal situation I could just bump my fuse to 120 and split each pump wiring to feed 6 total pumps, but I doubt it is that easy.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171122/7ee291662bea920e255b2125ddc725c7.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171122/ee5d84f8e768710e3a27eb025e3fc84a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171122/36f00b62312fe71ff1d109911f2e34e1.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171122/96c74e79c32dc5e4a8b045cb356c1015.jpg


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[PuraVida]

I was toying with the idea of disconnecting one of my existing pumps and splitting one of the other pump feeds to connect it to for a quick test without having to order new pumps. Sadly this didn't get done before the boat was stored for winter. The test wouldn't guarantee the system would work with 6 pumps but it would be a start.


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[dakota4ce]

I was toying with the idea of disconnecting one of my existing pumps and splitting one of the other pump feeds to connect it to for a quick test without having to order new pumps. Sadly this didn't get done before the boat was stored for winter. The test wouldn't guarantee the system would work with 6 pumps but it would be a start.


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I think on the feed side this is fine. They can and do share through hull fittings.


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[gregski]

Following.... I did a bit of research on my 16.
Looks like each pump needs 20 amps of fuse and uses 11.5 amps. Currently the controller pictured below is fused to 60 amps. In an ideal situation I could just bump my fuse to 120 and split each pump wiring to feed 6 total pumps, but I doubt it is that easy.
No, you can never "just bump the fuse" to increase capacity without doing a proper analysis. Also, do you see on that fuse housing "42 Volts DC max"? This is safety margin and also allows for inrush currents (same as the pumps 20V vs. 11.5V). The Carling rocker switches are rated to 20A so definitely no option to run 2 pumps in parallel.

6 pumps is doable but it ain't gonna be cheap. Cost vs. benefit starts to fall apart real quick.

[dakota4ce]

What about putting the extra pumps on the vacant ACC switches and having a manual setup for the auxiliary pumps...


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[MLA]

Id probably check the price and availability of the ballast PDM prior to wiring a 2nd pump to one of the output circuits as a test.

[KnoxMojo]

I think that it is pretty cool that Skiers Choice has gone to a 6 pump system to fill and drain faster. That being said, even running enzos or #1100s, the fill times aren't so bad that after you drop in, you begin to fill, and by the time you're ready to ride, the ballast should be full. If you are turning your boats off to fill and drain, I'm pretty sure the pumps run a bit faster if the boat is running. So for my humble opinion, rewiring a boat, adding pumps, relays, switches, isn't worth the few minutes extra you may save while out enjoying the sunshine and your friends and family.

[dakota4ce]

My new customs are gonna be 1280#. I might be 3 sheets by the time I can ride


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[mattsask]

+1 on that. My enzos are in the 14 minute range. Our cottage is in a shallow cove, so I can't start filling until I idle out 100 yards. By that point we are all settled in and ready to ride, except we have to wait 14 min for the bags to fill. We then have to do the opposite on the way in. We almost always ride morning and evening, so I'm burning an hour of sunlight daily, just filling bags. No wonder the cooler is always empty...

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[jmvotto]

I think that it is pretty cool that Skiers Choice has gone to a 6 pump system to fill and drain faster. That being said, even running enzos or #1100s, the fill times aren't so bad that after you drop in, you begin to fill, and by the time you're ready to ride, the ballast should be full. If you are turning your boats off to fill and drain, I'm pretty sure the pumps run a bit faster if the boat is running. So for my humble opinion, rewiring a boat, adding pumps, relays, switches, isn't worth the few minutes extra you may save while out enjoying the sunshine and your friends and family.

We are full with 4 k by the time we troll out from the dock and we start in about 3.5 feet of water center of our lake is about 15ft at our end then prgrosses to 125ft avg after that. Nver really thought it was an issue on 15 min wait times

[trayson]

+1 on that. My enzos are in the 14 minute range. Our cottage is in a shallow cove, so I can't start filling until I idle out 100 yards. By that point we are all settled in and ready to ride, except we have to wait 14 min for the bags to fill. We then have to do the opposite on the way in. We almost always ride morning and evening, so I'm burning an hour of sunlight daily, just filling bags. No wonder the cooler is always empty...

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I'm with ya. It sounds like most people must only surf.

Personally, I have to motor 15 minutes to our ride spot. But I'm not filling surf ballast while we're motoring. Furthermore, if the water's smooth enough, we're DEFINITELY going to start with a slalom or wakeboard run with either zero or 1180 ballast respectively. So when it's time to surf, we're having to burn ride time. And like yourself, when we're riding after work in the evenings, that time is precious.

I'd love to half my fill/empty times! But I'd have to do a cost/benefit on that one. Definitely not on this boat.

I'm sure a lot of other people have normal scenarios where halving the fill/empty times doesn't make sense. I think that multi-sport users would benefit the most from quicker changeovers.

[dakota4ce]

Time is all we really have, boys. Anything that saves time is worth a look.

I am thinking of some supplementary pumps on the empty acc switches.


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[MLA]

Time is all we really have, boys. Anything that saves time is worth a look.

I am thinking of some supplementary pumps on the empty acc switches.


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Are these mechanical rocker switches or unused digital ACC outputs on the helm control? The later are likely simple on/off, so no way to reverse pump polarity.

[dakota4ce]

Mechanical. Would need the proper switch type.


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[mattsask]

Dakota, which pumps do you plan on using?

I had a feeling that extra switches would be needed. I don't really see that as a huge deal though. Flip 6 switches instead of 3. Wakemakers sells ballast timers too, so it would be just as automated as before. I'm thinking if I do go ahead with it, I may get a buddy to plasma cut me a nice new mounting faceplate so I can have all the switches in one location with my zone control. Man, this winter could be expensive...

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[dakota4ce]

Dakota, which pumps do you plan on using?

I had a feeling that extra switches would be needed. I don't really see that as a huge deal though. Flip 6 switches instead of 3. Wakemakers sells ballast timers too, so it would be just as automated as before. I'm thinking if I do go ahead with it, I may get a buddy to plasma cut me a nice new mounting faceplate so I can have all the switches in one location with my zone control. Man, this winter could be expensive...

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Haven’t gotten that far, but likely standard reversibles like Johnsons or the rebranded wakemakers.

I still don’t have a full grasp on how my SE is plumbed. There are under floor tanks and then the bags, not sure how the whole thing is set up?

Need to take a very close look unless someone on here knows?


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[cpropes2005]

Anybody made any progress on this? I am toying with the idea of giving it a shot on my 2015 Mojo. For the electrical side I was thinking I would see if I could just splice into the power at each existing pump and use that to trip a relay that would draw power directly from the battery switch/fuse. Maybe three of the relays below? Seems like that shouldn’t put any extra load through the stock controller but it would put it on the same circuit so that the existing switches and timers still work.

OLS 12V DC 120 Amp Split Charge Relay Switch - 4 Terminal Relays for Truck Boat Marine https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N1IEWCU/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_i_Mer6Ab52D9CMR

[Dogpoundfather]

[QUOTE=cpropes2005;324433]Anybody made any progress on this? I am toying with the idea of giving it a shot on my 2015 Mojo. For the electrical side I was thinking I would see if I could just splice into the power at each existing pump and use that to trip a relay that would draw power directly from the battery switch/fuse. Maybe three of the relays below? Seems like that shouldnÂ’t put any extra load through the stock controller but it would put it on the same circuit so that the existing switches and timers still work.

OLS 12V DC 120 Amp Split Charge Relay Switch - 4 Terminal Relays for Truck

Boat Marine I have a 17 Supra Se 550 and no you cant split the wires but I was going to use each pump wire to switch a relay and add another fuse box in the back until I noticed the PDM runs the pumps. The relay way will still work but now im wondering if i can just change the PDM? I will post a wiring diagram and parts needed to wire it using relays. Ill try and draw it out today if someone can post a picture of the pdm of a 6 pump system so we can see which was is easier

[Dogpoundfather]

[QUOTE=Dogpoundfather;350390][QUOTE=cpropes2005;324433]Anybody made any progress on this? I am toying with the idea of giving it a shot on my 2015 Mojo. For the electrical side I was thinking I would see if I could just splice into the power at each existing pump and use that to trip a relay that would draw power directly from the battery switch/fuse. Maybe three of the relays below? Seems like that shouldnÂ’t put any extra load through the stock controller but it would put it on the same circuit so that the existing switches and timers still work.

OLS 12V DC 120 Amp Split Charge Relay Switch - 4 Terminal Relays for Truck

Boat Marine I have a 17 Supra Se 550 and no you cant split the wires but I was going to use each pump wire to switch a relay and add another fuse box in the back until I noticed the PDM runs the pumps. The relay way will still work but now im wondering if i can just change the PDM? I will post a wiring diagram and parts needed to wire it using relays. Ill try and draw it out today if someone can post a picture of the pdm of a 6 pump system so we can see which was is

I drew this real quick, should work....lol

[bteeter]

Was looking at the PDM on my '19 Craz with the G3 ballast. There are a number of unused pins on the PDM. I'd be willing to bet S/C populates those extra pins with extra wiring for the G6 pumps. Although this is speculation it would make more sense to have a single PDM that works with G3/G6 than maintain 2 separate parts. I'd be great if anyone with the G6 ballast had pictures of the wiring coming out of the PDM (located behind the carpeted port transom divider wall).

If you did want to splice in a relay to the stock PDM wiring you would need to use a DPDT relay if you have a reversible pump like the jabsco ballast puppy used on late model boats.

quick schematic (https://www.electroschematics.com/dpdt-switch-relay/)

[Craz16]

Was curious if anyone with the 3 pump system has ever added in a “Y” fitting from the water intake to a secondary one way pump like say a tsunami? Then running another ballast hose to the other port on the bag.

This would cut your fill time in half but drain time would be the same.

Could be a lot cheaper and easier solution than wiring up the 2 way pumps. And I’m sure there’s an easier way to wire it to the same ballast switch.

Any thoughts If this could work or not?


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[MLA]

Aerator live well pumps absolutely have to be mounted below the waterline in order to work. So at the least, you need a T fitting right on the intake, with the aerator pump mounted to the T. 2nd, Aerator pumps sharing plumbing with a reversible impeller pump, usually does not work well.

[Craz16]

Aerator live well pumps absolutely have to be mounted below the waterline in order to work. So at the least, you need a T fitting right on the intake, with the aerator pump mounted to the T. 2nd, Aerator pumps sharing plumbing with a reversible impeller pump, usually does not work well.

What would be the difference from 2, two way pumps (for the 6 pump system) and one two way and one Aerator style operating off of one inlet ? Flow rates?


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[MLA]

What would be the difference from 2, two way pumps (for the 6 pump system) and one two way and one Aerator style operating off of one inlet ? Flow rates?


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We have experienced that a reversible impeller pump will draw through the aerator pump, pulling water from which ever sac/tank its supplying.