Diesel Truck owners. need info/opinions on Deletes and Tuners

[Pound]

I have a 2013 Ram Cummins 6.7 and unbeknownst to me, there is a required service to be performed every 67,500 miles that involves removing and cleaning the soot out of the EGR cooler, EGR valve, crossover tube and replacing the CCV filter (which is inside the valve cover I understand). It cost me $1,100 for the dealer to perform this service and would have been more but I had just recently replaced the fuel filters (2 of them that cost about $100 each at the parts counter). It's obvious why they don't really highlight this in their cool "look how much pipe you can haul" commercials. lol.

In a nutshell, the EGR system pumps exhaust gas with all the soot in it, back into your intake contaminating your valve train, combustion chamber, turbo, etc. some of it gets into your oil diluting it (and potentially causing catastrophic bearing failure), it clogs up the EGR itself (hence the required cleaning) causing the engine to be less efficient over time... therefore causing you to burn MORE fuel...creating more soot/emissions etc. The DPF system has to "regen" periodically when it collects enough of the soot that's not being "burned off" in the EGR system and when it "regens" it's sending additional unburned diesel thru the combustion chamber (on a non combustion stroke) and super heats the DPF which significantly reduces your power and efficiency during a cycle, creates more NOx gas. NOx is just as bad for the environment as the particulate matter. potentially worse since the DPM is heavy and falls to earth and gets washed away and is essentially just carbon. Not to mention these components wear out over time. In the end, just because you don't see the black smoke anymore, doesn't mean the engine is any more "clean".

So, the argument is that by removing these EPA mandated systems, and programming the truck to be more efficient will A.) allow the engine to last a LOT longer B.) cost you less in the long run on having these systems maintained and/or replaced. A new DPF system can cost up to $8000! and guess what, at least for Ram's the emissions system warranty is only 50k miles. and C.) Deleting is at a minimum no more harmful to the environment than WITH the emissions systems and potentially less harmful over time due to less fuel being consumed in the 1st place.

Here's where it gets tricky. It's illegal to tamper with or remove factory installed emissions equipment and recommended for off-road use only. Disclaimer: I'm just educating myself on this topic.

I'm just learning about deleting systems and tuners. Anyone here have experience w/EGR deletes, DPF deletes, and the myriad of available tuners out there that they can recommend me to look into? I've paid this truck off already and plan to have it for a LONG time. Regardless, I still like the truck and the power it has.

[stevemarich]

I've got a 2012 ram with 200,000 on it, did the delete at 120,000 I use the h&s mini max , installed it when truck was new but ran it in factory emissions mode until the 12,000, have had no issues with it, on our fleet trucks that are rams , I would do the ccv filter at the 60,000 mark , but wait and do the the egr cleaning till the next go around at 120,000 , so far has been working out , we have a good sized fleet of them too. Tried a race me in one to save money, and it works, but it does cause problems about every 2 months or so

[rbeckner27]

I had a 2008 f250 and I did the delete at about 36000 miles. I ran the minimaxx and loved it. The power increase was unreal and very tough to avoid squeezing the throttle pedal a bit. Only issue I know of now is that the EPA hit the manufacturers very hard and most now only sell tuners that are deemed street legal meaning no ability to do the delete. The only company I know of that was still selling delete program tuners was spartan but I don't know if they do Cummins motors or not.

[sandm]

just had to have the '99 f250 v10 inspected in utah to get it registered as we're new to the state. not sure what all that entailed as all my other vehicles are new enough they don't require it. buddy sent me to a local shop that doesn't check. walked in, $20 and 10 minutes later walked out with a complete vehicle inspection and she never even left her pc. knowing it's illegal and finding the workarounds if you live in a emissions testing state is easy.

if you're modding the truck tho, don't be one of the peckers that has a diesel truck with a 5" exhaust out the bottom that every time they step on the gas it blows out a thick cloud of black smoke right into traffic next to it. don't think most appreciate breathing that soot.

if you were in my neck of the woods, i'd tell ya to stop in and see this guy. grantsville is a town of about 9000 people and this guy is a legend in the area. even if he does spew black soot :)
http://www.trucktrend.com/features/1509-06-dodge-ram-3500-makes-1400hp-while-not-looking-the-part/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sC3ft2RLLyM

[stevemarich]

You can still get the mini maxx , since it has the capability to run both with factory emissions or in off road use, you do have to sign the waiver for not to be used on registered vehicle , same with most of the exhaust systems you would need to go with it. I went with the 5" turbo back with performance muffler from flow pro, price was great and the sound is perfect , no drone when towing, not much louder than factory in the cab, only gets loud when hammering down on it. Averaging 17.5 mpg running 37 13.5 toyos

[Pound]

Thanks for the replies. I've not found anyone yet that says they deleted and would not do it again.

What about the various EFI Live tunes? I hear they get good reviews. I'm mostly concerned with longevity of the vehicle, and performance/sound improvements secondarily. Definitely not interested in "rollin' coal".
I'm not sure yet if i'd go w/a full exhaust replacement, or just the tube that replaces the DPF section.
So i'm thinking tune, EGR blanks, and cut out the DPF only. maybe not even gauges. The edge products look really cool but i just don't think i'd use much of what it does. It's not required is it?

[KG's Supra24]

Gauge question depends what tune you go with.

I did EFI Live on an LMM Duramax at 150k. Replaced injectors at 220k (mechanic claims tune did not do it, that the time frame is about right) and sold at 240k. It had the EFI Live ECM with everything deleted. I used an Edge CTS for the gauges.

Now I'm in a Powerstroke currently under warranty. I miss having a tuned truck and now realize I was always looking at the Edge CTS. I'll go with a similar setup when its time to tune this truck. Last truck was 5" straight pipe but ill likely go with a muffler next time around.

When I did all my work the standard recommendation was not to go more than 100'ish hp over factory on a stock transmission. I'm not sure if that is still the typical recommendation or not.

I enjoyed the improved fuel economy and drive-ability of the tuned truck.

[stevemarich]

The down pipe is full off honeycomb more restriction , I like replacing it, and exhaust bolts and clamps suck, was much easier to just replace the whole thing, I have heard great things about EFI live , have never used it though, have used some edge products in the past and have had good luck with them as well, my reason for the mini maxx is it is easy to use, you get 4 gauges built into to the unit, can choose what you want to monitor, you can get the tranny tune , I think is a must, and it is very easy to go in and set your desired defuel parameters, install is very easy . And mounted in the right place very easy to adjust on the fly. And idea of it installed26135

[Pound]

...but wait and do the the egr cleaning till the next go around at 120,000 , so far has been working out , we have a good sized fleet of them too.

My mileage had decreased to around 15 over the last 2 years. It's now back up to 17.4 after about 500 miles of mixed use driving (hwy, traffic and city). I can only assume the soot buildup in the EGR system was causing the degraded performance. Truck seems more peppy too.

I've found a few vendors on Ebay that sell complete kits (exhaust, EGR delete, Tune and monitor) for reasonable prices. But I'm still not sure if i want to go that route.

[stevemarich]

Yours is a 13 , were you lucky enough to not have the DEF fluid, most 13 added the def, have might need to have the turbo cleaned as well if there was a noticeable difference, there is a service bulletin out about cleaning the vgt, about to have mine done , first 50,000 average 12mpg , went to 14 mpg till the 120,000 when did full delete, after that has been steady 17-18 , the 2016 and 2017 that have the def they have been averaging in the 17-19 range.

[Pound]

Yes, I have DEF. ...for now ;-)

[Pound]

Ok, I've pretty much settled on a MM3 tuned by Ray at Double R Diesel. He gets great reviews and seems to have superb customer service.
He's come out with a tune that allows you to leave your factory emissions equipment in place, but shuts off the EGR and prevents regens. So basically all you need to buy is the MM3 unit (which is also your gages). However, he doesn't recommend leaving the DPF in place if the truck has over 50k miles, which mine does. So i'll need to buy an exhaust which I want to do anyway.

Now i just gotta decide when to pull the trigger. My wallet is still sore from the $1,100 I just spent to have the stupid EGR cleaned.

[bergermaister]

there is a required service to be performed every 67,500 miles that involves removing and cleaning the soot out of the EGR cooler, EGR valve, crossover tube and replacing the CCV filter (which is inside the valve cover I understand).

Sh!t... I just bought a 2014 RAM 2500 with about 80k on it. I did the CCV filter, fuel filters, etc. shortly after I bought it to set my own baseline, not trusting the dealer or previous owner to have done actual maintenance. I have not seen anything recommended or highlighted relating to the soot cleanup though.

Any chance that was only certain model years before DEF came into play?

[stevemarich]

Nope , that's why it says perform service , and the manual says to take it to your dealer, Dodge number 1 has only been to the dealership for recall work , and shes got 364,000 on it and running strong , love our dodges

[bergermaister]

Right, but on mine the perform service message, according to the book,said it was the CCV filter replacement needed, nothing about soot cleanup.

Maybe the whiskey is clouding my judgement here. Are you saying no dealer service required, or be ready to pony up?

[stevemarich]

I wouldn't pony up yet , but that's me , they recommend the removal and cleaning of your egr , egr cooler, when replacing the ccv filter ,that hasn't changed with newer DEF .I would do it your next interval along with the turbo cleaning, but that's me , cleaned way too many at 130,000 for the first time, that really didn't need cleaning even at that point , but it doesn't hurt anything to do it either , except your wallet if you don't do it yourself

[rdlangston13]

A guy in my neighnor hood does deisel performance, I can give you his number and you can give him a ring.

[Broke Pilot]

Being big in the diesel performance world I'll just say this... if it's working, don't touch it. As soon as you go start messing with these stupid a** high strung emissions systems you'll open a can of worms that is going to cost you money one way or another. Leave it alone or delete it. I prefer the latter, but warranty isn't important to me.
If you'd like to talk some, pm me, I'll give ya a cell #. One of these days when all the other projects are complete I'm gonna start the build on my new '17 Cummins. Right now it's a game to see how long I can make the emissions last and the VGT actuator from failing. I broke my own rule by buying a newer post emissions diesel, and I've learned a lot from a few builds. I miss my VP44 tucks... lol
If ya can't tell, the only reason I'm a pilot is to support all my bad vehicle habits... this was the last 2nd gen build, my personal truck. 578hp, 1003ftlb freight train.
http://i.imgur.com/hu9aSR0.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/yEkr9yb.jpg
Notice a theme...? Lol

[Broke Pilot]

Just read this thread all the way through... sorry.
If you're wanting to delete, look into the new EZLynk. I like ray over at double R, but he does some weird stuff for tunes. I'm not a fan of the race me tuners, I see that a true ECM unlock in the long run lasts longer. Plus, I like being able to just throw a cell phone up there for gauges so there's nothing hanging around the truck to be stolen. Also, having instant tune updates is freakin cool.
If you're not a member on Cummins forum.com, do it, lots of good info that's been beaten to death over there.
Since your truck is a DEF truck, your egr system should be relatively clean. That's on of the few benefits. With def there's less egr circulation than pre def trucks since it's making the exhaust work for you finally. If you go with a double r egr delete, you're gonna use about a tank or more def fluid every 2-3k miles depending on how you drive since you're asking more of the system with no egr. It's that whole no free lunch kinda deal...

[Pound]

27874
27875
27876

Some parts fell off my truck this weekend. Now it smokes a lot when i rev it in park.

[Pound]

https://youtu.be/IHU4OIy1Q7A

[Broke Pilot]

Nicely done... yep, mine hit a bump and I lost all kinds of stuff on mine about 3 weeks ago. Started eating def fluid pretty heavily and regening a lot. 29k miles... got about 10k more than I expected.
What did you end up going with for tuner exhaust etc?
I did HPP tunes on the EZLynk.

[RC_Hinojosa]

Nicely done... yep, mine hit a bump and I lost all kinds of stuff on mine about 3 weeks ago. Started eating def fluid pretty heavily and regening a lot. 29k miles... got about 10k more than I expected.
What did you end up going with for tuner exhaust etc?
I did HPP tunes on the EZLynk.

Broke Pilot...I know you are a big Cummins diesel guy.

Do you have any recommendations for the 6.7 Powerstroke? I'm on my first diesel and would like to do a few mods without getting in trouble with the warranty Nazis...

[Broke Pilot]

I’m not a big PS guy, but anymore the big 3 are all the same games in town when it comes to aftermarket.
What you looking to do to it? If you want more power, there’s really no way around the warranty issue. You gotta tune and delete.
The biggest thing I know on the PS is DO NOT put any kind of aftermarket air filter/intake set up on them. The turbos on them are super sensitive. My buddy from college is on his 3rd turbo.
Suspension can be tricky with warranty. Dealers have to ‘prove’ your parts caused the failure to deny warranty work. (And they have better lawyers than you guaranteed, so it’s usially not worth the fight) however, if you put a lift and tires on and for example your AC goes out, I’ve never seen a dealer really act that crazy.
At the end of the day, it’s a pay to play situation. What are you willing to deal with to drive the truck YOU want?
Warranties usually aren’t worth the hassle to me, and I’ve never had good experiences with dealer mechanics. I do better work, and I’m picky as it is. Lol
I wish I could buy a truck for less $$ with no warranty out the door.
Pm me a number if you’d like, we can talk options about anything you wanna do. And I’ve got a big shop to work on if you wanna wrench on it. I’m always game for a good day in the shop!

[TXSurf4]

Broke Pilot...I know you are a big Cummins diesel guy.

Do you have any recommendations for the 6.7 Powerstroke? I'm on my first diesel and would like to do a few mods without getting in trouble with the warranty Nazis...

Ford is definitely my truck of choice and I love the Powerstroke! That being said what year of the 6.7 do you have? Broke Pilot is spot on about it, tune and delete will make it a new truck but the warranty will go out the window as far as power train goes.

[RC_Hinojosa]

Ford is definitely my truck of choice and I love the Powerstroke! That being said what year of the 6.7 do you have? Broke Pilot is spot on about it, tune and delete will make it a new truck but the warranty will go out the window as far as power train goes.I have a 2017 I picked up new this past March so I have about 11,500 miles to date.

I'm not touching suspension until I need new tires...I have a 2.5" leveling kit with 35s on 20s.

Was just curious if there were any bolt-ons that were worth while but wouldn't cause grief.

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[Pound]

BrokePilot, I did 5” Flowpro w/o muffler, EGR delete from Deviant Race Parts, and tunes on an MM3 from double r diesel. No more DEF, no more regens, and sounds/smells and drives like it should.
I was actually going to pass on doing it another year b/c we already spent too much on Xmas. But on the 12th my DEF gauge started flaking out and truck was threatening to put me in limp mode. And after a quick google troubleshooting, the fix is to replace the sending unit and pump (b/c they are one unit) at the cost of several hundred $$ so I said, enough is enough and ordered everything that night.

[TXSurf4]

I have a 2017 I picked up new this past March so I have about 11,500 miles to date.

I'm not touching suspension until I need new tires...I have a 2.5" leveling kit with 35s on 20s.

Was just curious if there were any bolt-ons that were worth while but wouldn't cause grief.

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Nice!! They are great trucks IMO

Are you going to go higher on your suspension?

Ya as far as bolt-ons there isn't much I would do until you are ready to void the warranty or it has run out. But then it is quick and easy!

[RC_Hinojosa]

Nice!! They are great trucks IMO

Are you going to go higher on your suspension?

Ya as far as bolt-ons there isn't much I would do until you are ready to void the warranty or it has run out. But then it is quick and easy!Yeah, I love the truck. I've had 2 F-150s ('93,'99) and 3 ('03,'13,'17) F-250s....Ford guy for sure.

Whenever I run down my 35" Nitto Ridge Grapplers, I wanna do a 6" 4-link and run 40s. I've heard good things about Carli and BDS suspensions.

I also have an itch for the Fab Fours Vengeance bumper that maybe Santa will scratch...

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[Broke Pilot]

RC- not much as far as bolt ons for diesels anymore. There’s always cosmetic and quality of life stuff. I’ve got a full set of led bulbs for the interior I still haven’t installed. Lol I dunno if ford is as bad as ram, but our headlights suck. $60k+ trucks and they can’t include a decent HID or LED headlight. Checkout headlight revolution.com, they seem to be the best at plug and play systems.

Pound- nice parts set up. And yes, I forgot how much I love the smell of burnt kerosene! Lol I did a down pipe back 4” flopro with muffler. As much as I’m on the highway I didn’t want any drone. I called pusher intakes and got their intake to delete the throttle valve and grabbed their EGR delete while I was there too. Love the intake, but their EGR sucks. I’m in the process of building some brackets to clean up their mess.
I’m really surprised Rays tunes smoke like that off idle. Mine is whisper clean. He must be really tapping into the low boost fueling table. Lol just be careful if you’re running a hot tune. 68Rfe trans is a joke. It’ll grenade if you look at it wrong. I haven’t taken mine out of the 30hp eco tune with trans tuning and probly never will. I don’t really wanna spend 10k on a revmax trans...

[TXSurf4]

Yeah, I love the truck. I've had 2 F-150s ('93,'99) and 3 ('03,'13,'17) F-250s....Ford guy for sure.

Whenever I run down my 35" Nitto Ridge Grapplers, I wanna do a 6" 4-link and run 40s. I've heard good things about Carli and BDS suspensions.

I also have an itch for the Fab Fours Vengeance bumper that maybe Santa will scratch...

Sent from my Note9 using Tapatalk

Nice! I had a few F-150s myself before I got my F-250 and I am still on my first of those. It is a 2010 but within my Family we Currently have 4 F-250s (06, 10, 12, & 18 ). we aren’t a Ford Family or anything! Hahaha

6” with 40s would look awesome!!! Both Carli and BDS are really good setups. I had Carli on mine a while back and I loved it. I have a few friends that have them on theirs and they love them.

That bumper would be an awesome Christmas Present!!

[Pound]

BrokePilot, I’m running +60 and it’s plenty damn fast for a heavy ass truck on 35’s. I’m going to ease into +120 tomorrow cuz why not. I think as long as I let everything come up to temp and not go cra-cra I’ll be fine. What is it u say, “overkill is underrated”?

[Shoebox]

I thought someone here or on the FB page said that tunes are illegal now and nobody is selling them? My Duramax has 2 years warranty left, then I'd like to delete the DEF and tune it.

[Broke Pilot]

Hell, what isn’t illegal nowadays... but yes you’re correct, it is illegal to delete emissions equipment. It’s technically not illegal to tune, unless that tune turns off emissions equipment which on a diesel or does. Lol
There have been crack downs of late, H+S tuners got taped pretty hard 2-3 years ago, quadzilla, and Sinister diesel. Recently Diablo got popped but that was more for their gas engine tuners.
Small places like HPP, PPEI (who I would recommend to you with with a ‘max, Kory Willis is the man on duramax tuning) they’re harder to go after since they have a huge presence in the racing world also.
Just check the box that says yes I know it’s for ‘off-road and racinguse only’ and move on to a much better running, happier,, longer lasting truck.

[Shoebox]

Hell, what isn’t illegal nowadays... but yes you’re correct, it is illegal to delete emissions equipment. It’s technically not illegal to tune, unless that tune turns off emissions equipment which on a diesel or does. Lol
There have been crack downs of late, H+S tuners got taped pretty hard 2-3 years ago, quadzilla, and Sinister diesel. Recently Diablo got popped but that was more for their gas engine tuners.
Small places like HPP, PPEI (who I would recommend to you with with a ‘max, Kory Willis is the man on duramax tuning) they’re harder to go after since they have a huge presence in the racing world also.
Just check the box that says yes I know it’s for ‘off-road and racinguse only’ and move on to a much better running, happier,, longer lasting truck.Nice. I guess when the time comes I'll have to pick your brain.

[Edo88]

If you can find a mini max get it just beware there are fake Chinese made ones out there. I deleted my 12 ram at 9k miles have 60k now and never had a issue


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[Broke Pilot]

Nice. I guess when the time comes I'll have to pick your brain.

What year is your duramax? Pm me a number, we can talk options. I’m in the process of gathering parts to get the EGR deleted on my moms 04

[Shoebox]

It's a 2015. I'll pm you.