Battery Connection

[MegatronSS]

Both batteries are good, but there seems to be an issue with one of the connections on my #2. When selected, motor won't even try to turn over and the Perfect Pass doesn't come on. Other accessories work fine but they are wired to #1.

When switched to #1 starts right up, Perfect Pass on.

Any ideas? Used to work fine, just started doing this last weekend....

[MLA]

Both batteries are good,

Determined by how? Whats the voltage level of the suspect battery? Voltage drop test on the main cables?

[zabooda]

X2 MLA. Batteries are only good when they can sustain a load so the battery check under load is crucial.

[MegatronSS]

Determined by how? Whats the voltage level of the suspect battery? Voltage drop test on the main cables?

Voltage level won't even read - there is no power, the perfect pass is wired to the ignition as well and it won't even register...any thoughts?

Really surprised how that could start happening.

Again when switched to the main battery boom good power and starts up/perfect pass turns on etc

[MegatronSS]

And I know both batteries are good - one is brand new and the other was holding a charge fine, plus I charged it.

I initially thought it was just a bad battery, so I replaced it. At the store we pull a voltmeter on it and it was still at 12.1-12.2 volts. I bought a new battery anyway, wasn't sure how old the first one was.

Threw in the new battery and nothing with it selected

[Poison]

12.1-12.2 volts is pretty low for a charged 12v marine battery.

That aside, it must not be connected properly. How are the batteries wired in? Are you using a perko switch or something similar?

[MLA]

.any thoughts?

Yes, my original ones.


Whats the voltage level of the suspect battery? Voltage drop test on the main cables?

Check voltage at the battery, in the boat and work your way toward the helm. Im not interested in an interpretation of battery condition, just voltage. It will also mater where you make your ground connections for the test meter.

[zabooda]

"At the store we pull a voltmeter on it and it was still at 12.1-12.2 volts." Wrong device to check the battery. Load test needed to be done.

Where a voltmeter will work is tracing out the circuit which you need to do starting at the battery with the negative connected to the boat's common ground not at the battery terminal. Drawing out the circuit as you go along helps.

[MLA]

Wrong device to check the battery. Load test needed to be done

^^^^^ I disagree to a point. You cant effectively load test a depleted battery. If you load test a low battery, it will fail every time, whether its a good battery or bad battery. Most people that use a typical load tester, dont have a clue what they are actually checking for. They see a needle drop and deem the battery bad. Have no clue they just loaded a depleted battery. Ill take a volt meter over a toaster-tester any day of the week. Voltage is the first step in the health of a battery.

The above battery should have been tested with an inductance tester. less chance of user error and can actually test a low battery.

[MegatronSS]

^^^^^ I disagree to a point. You cant effectively load test a depleted battery. If you load test a low battery, it will fail every time, whether its a good battery or bad battery. Most people that use a typical load tester, dont have a clue what they are actually checking for. They see a needle drop and deem the battery bad. Have no clue they just loaded a depleted battery. Ill take a volt meter over a toaster-tester any day of the week. Voltage is the first step in the health of a battery.

The above battery should have been tested with an inductance tester. less chance of user error and can actually test a low battery.

My point though guys is that it is not the battery. Brand new one installed and same issue. It's a connection somewhere I am assuming but not sure where it could be...?

I'm using a perko switch yes. Accessories/stereo are wired to #1, #2 just wired to 'the boat'.

I dismounted the switch, had a small amount of corrosion but nothing major. Cleaned it off with a wire bruss but no help.

Where else could something have come loose? Again the issue that that zero power seems to be registering but it's a brand new battery

[MegatronSS]

#2 is the one with connection issues as well. #1 runs and powers everything fine

[Poison]

I'm using a perko switch yes. Accessories/stereo are wired to #1, #2 just wired to 'the boat'.

I dismounted the switch, had a small amount of corrosion but nothing major. Cleaned it off with a wire bruss but no help.

Where else could something have come loose? Again the issue that that zero power seems to be registering but it's a brand new battery


That doesn't make sense. The switch has 1, 2, and common. 1 is the cable to the positive battery terminal, 2 goes to battery 2 and common is everything that is shared between the two batteries. It sounds like your perko switch is not wired correctly. The batteries must also share a ground (negative) cable.

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[MLA]

I'm using a perko switch yes. Accessories/stereo are wired to #1, #2 just wired to 'the boat'.

If this is the case, then the switch is not wired correctly. However, A volt meter will end the speculation. Use the tool to find where the voltage stops. There is nothing more anyone here can do for you, beyond guessing. If electrical testing is not your thing, seek the help of a boat mechanic.

[MegatronSS]

That doesn't make sense. The switch has 1, 2, and common. 1 is the cable to the positive battery terminal, 2 goes to battery 2 and common is everything that is shared between the two batteries. It sounds like your perko switch is not wired correctly. The batteries must also share a ground (negative) cable.

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Thanks for the help, I'm still learning here...

I'll grab some pics and see if that helps

[MegatronSS]

If this is the case, then the switch is not wired correctly. However, A volt meter will end the speculation. Use the tool to find where the voltage stops. There is nothing more anyone here can do for you, beyond guessing. If electrical testing is not your thing, seek the help of a boat mechanic.

I would rather learn on the forum if I can than take it to the shop that is for sure.....that's what forums are for to seek help, no?

Voltmeter no big deal, I need to find where to test though. Does it go to the ignition or the alternator from the switch?

[kaneboats]

There is nothing more anyone here can do for you, beyond guessing. If electrical testing is not your thing, seek the help of a boat mechanic.

Mike, if you want to give up, that's fine. But we don't just send everyone on here to a boat mechanic or we wouldn't need a forum. There's always room to learn things.

[MLA]

Kaneboats,

Feel free to message me and we can have a mature, professional off-topic discussion regarding your comments.

In the meantime, please read back through this thread. We are 5 days into it and the OP has yet to make some basic checks and answer back, yet still asking what to do. Help has been offered but cannot go any further until we get some basic voltage checks at the batteries and switch posts.

I have not given up, im still waiting on day five, for some thing more concrete then "the batteries are good". We can continue to speculate on all the things that could be wrong, or we can grab a volt meter, climb in that locker and start narrowing it down to what is actually wrong.

Again, we are 5 days into a dead battery bank in the middle of summer. Seeking the help of a professional is a 100% valid suggestion for the Op to consider, if he feels that his strengths are not in mobile 12V diagnostics and repairs. November is a great time to learn the basic................middle of boat season, not so much. However, not my decision, im just here to offer options.

Regards

[kaneboats]

Unbunch your panties. Guy's trying to learn as he goes.

[MLA]

Very becoming of a moderator Kaneboats. I dont yet see a message notice so again, feel free to contact me outside of a public thread if you disagree the nature of my advise in the context of this thread.

otherwise, please continue with the help you were offering the OP. My apology for interrupting you.

[russellsmojo]

Megatron does this help?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5xMDWzUPk_w


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[MegatronSS]

Unbunch your panties. Guy's trying to learn as he goes.

Dude, exactly. Thank you.

It's not like the boat is waiting out in the middle of the river still, figured I may have a bit of time to respond lol.

[MegatronSS]

Megatron does this help?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5xMDWzUPk_w


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Thanks for trying to help, multimeter is no prob though.

Maybe I'm not being clear, or my thought process is off but I know the problem is not the battery itself because A) It's brand spanking new, as in never used; and B) The battery that cranks the motor/runs stereo does the same thing when it is connected to that wiring.

So it obviously has to be the wiring. So I guess my question is what is the next stage down after it goes through the switch? Switch seems to be fine so it has to be the next connection point in line........would that be the alternator, or ignition? Something must have come loose after hitting some wake.

At least that's what I'm thinking, but again obviously here for any help or thoughts

Thanks!

[russellsmojo]

I had a negative battery terminal pop off Memorial Day after some big waves. Elementary but have you checked battery post?


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[trayson]

Thanks for trying to help, multimeter is no prob though.

Maybe I'm not being clear, or my thought process is off but I know the problem is not the battery itself because A) It's brand spanking new, as in never used; and B) The battery that cranks the motor/runs stereo does the same thing when it is connected to that wiring.

So it obviously has to be the wiring. So I guess my question is what is the next stage down after it goes through the switch? Switch seems to be fine so it has to be the next connection point in line........would that be the alternator, or ignition? Something must have come loose after hitting some wake.

At least that's what I'm thinking, but again obviously here for any help or thoughts

Thanks!

What you're wondering is what people are telling you to do.

You asked what's after the battery? The switch. what's after the switch? A breaker. What's after the breaker? A power distribution block. after that is likely a fuse box.

And what MLA has been telling you to do is to start at the battery. Measure the voltage. Then measure the voltage at your perko switch. THen measure the voltage at the next point down the line and so on. What comes next in line is basically following the wiring to some degree. eventually you'll get to the dash gauge and the ignition, etc. But you already know that's dead.

So, with a multimeter, tell us what the voltage reading is on your 'good' batteries. this will verify that they are in fact good and won't leave any second guessing. It's just reporting back to us on the results of various tests so we can eliminate various things that could be wrong.


Also, in my boat, there's no accessories that are wired directly to either of my batteries. Everything connects at the perko switch or beyond. so that when I turn the switch to OFF, there is no power going to anything. That's pretty common, so if your system isn't wired that way, people are going to question it when you tell us that "your accessories are wired to one battery".

I can see that you weren't completely understanding what people were suggesting that you do. But to them, I believe it seemed like you weren't willing to take the various testing suggestions because you were deeming them unnecessary because of various assertions you were making. Got it? Communication breakdown.

Anyway, I hope I shed some light on this. The advice you've been given is sound. You need to start testing at the beginning and work your way down the line until you find the issue.


We really want you to 1) perform a test and 2) report back the results of that test in volts so that we can give you our interpretation of those results.

Just because the switch seems to be fine based on its behavior doesn't give us hard data (test results) to make a solid judgement on. Behavior can be misleading or miscommunicated. telling us the voltage reading when the multimeter is connected to point A for Pos and point B for Neg is a lot harder to be lost in translation.


And since you're just learning, and it's hard to know exactly where to take the various measurements, if you make a list of all the various places you tested and tell us for each one:

Location postive probe of the multimeter was connected to ___________________
Location negative probe of the multimeter was connected to _____________________
Voltage reading _____________

and just give us a bunch of these test results, and the problem area will be come apparent. and THEN we can suggest things that could cause that area to be a problem.

[MegatronSS]

What you're wondering is what people are telling you to do.

You asked what's after the battery? The switch. what's after the switch? A breaker. What's after the breaker? A power distribution block. after that is likely a fuse box.

And what MLA has been telling you to do is to start at the battery. Measure the voltage. Then measure the voltage at your perko switch. THen measure the voltage at the next point down the line and so on. What comes next in line is basically following the wiring to some degree. eventually you'll get to the dash gauge and the ignition, etc. But you already know that's dead.

So, with a multimeter, tell us what the voltage reading is on your 'good' batteries. this will verify that they are in fact good and won't leave any second guessing. It's just reporting back to us on the results of various tests so we can eliminate various things that could be wrong.


Also, in my boat, there's no accessories that are wired directly to either of my batteries. Everything connects at the perko switch or beyond. so that when I turn the switch to OFF, there is no power going to anything. That's pretty common, so if your system isn't wired that way, people are going to question it when you tell us that "your accessories are wired to one battery".

I can see that you weren't completely understanding what people were suggesting that you do. But to them, I believe it seemed like you weren't willing to take the various testing suggestions because you were deeming them unnecessary because of various assertions you were making. Got it? Communication breakdown.

Anyway, I hope I shed some light on this. The advice you've been given is sound. You need to start testing at the beginning and work your way down the line until you find the issue.


We really want you to 1) perform a test and 2) report back the results of that test in volts so that we can give you our interpretation of those results.

Just because the switch seems to be fine based on its behavior doesn't give us hard data (test results) to make a solid judgement on. Behavior can be misleading or miscommunicated. telling us the voltage reading when the multimeter is connected to point A for Pos and point B for Neg is a lot harder to be lost in translation.


And since you're just learning, and it's hard to know exactly where to take the various measurements, if you make a list of all the various places you tested and tell us for each one:

Location postive probe of the multimeter was connected to ___________________
Location negative probe of the multimeter was connected to _____________________
Voltage reading _____________

and just give us a bunch of these test results, and the problem area will be come apparent. and THEN we can suggest things that could cause that area to be a problem.

Gotcha - that makes a lot more sense. I'm traveling for the next week and a half but will do that!

And I thought that would be odd it would be wired that way, although it's wired to an accessory switch for what that is worth, I'm assuming there may still some draw though.

[MLA]

So I guess my question is what is the next stage down after it goes through the switch?

Actually, we will just assume the battery is good, but you want to know why I have asked for the actual battery voltage at the battery with it in the boat? because its step 1 and establishes a base line for the remaining voltage checks. As stated, it not about a good or bad battery determined by anyone, its all about the voltage.

Next, check voltage at the switch #2 input with switch off, again with switch to #2. If no or low voltage, see below. How do we know if its low you ask? Because we started with step 1 and measured voltage at the battery, rather than assuming its "good"

As posted back on the July 5th, do a voltage drop test on the main battery cables. Both B+ and B-. This indicates the integrity of the cables. You, yourself, felt it was a bad cable or connection in your opening post. I gave the test on how to eliminate the cables/connections or pinpoint one as the issue.

Since the boat operates when #1 is selected, this eliminates everything down stream of the switch and half of the switch. Somewhere between the battery and Common post of the switch you will likely find the issue. Again, you have to have a base line, which you get by taking a voltage check right at the battery.

[MegatronSS]

Actually, we will just assume the battery is good, but you want to know why I have asked for the actual battery voltage at the battery with it in the boat? because its step 1 and establishes a base line for the remaining voltage checks. As stated, it not about a good or bad battery determined by anyone, its all about the voltage.

Next, check voltage at the switch #2 input with switch off, again with switch to #2. If no or low voltage, see below. How do we know if its low you ask? Because we started with step 1 and measured voltage at the battery, rather than assuming its "good"

As posted back on the July 5th, do a voltage drop test on the main battery cables. Both B+ and B-. This indicates the integrity of the cables. You, yourself, felt it was a bad cable or connection in your opening post. I gave the test on how to eliminate the cables/connections or pinpoint one as the issue.

Since the boat operates when #1 is selected, this eliminates everything down stream of the switch and half of the switch. Somewhere between the battery and Common post of the switch you will likely find the issue. Again, you have to have a base line, which you get by taking a voltage check right at the battery.

Excellent - that makes perfect sense thanks! Exactly what I was looking for

[Poison]

There are realistically three likely scenarios since it works with the other battery...

1) the battery is dead
2)the Perko switch is bad
3)the switch is wired incorrectly

My money is on number 3.


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[zabooda]

#4. No continuous ground on battery #2. Easy check.

[KG's Supra24]

There are realistically three likely scenarios since it works with the other battery...

1) the battery is dead
2)the Perko switch is bad
3)the switch is wired incorrectly

My money is on number 3.


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I certainly wouldn't bet against you

[trayson]

#4. No continuous ground on battery #2. Easy check.

My suspicion as well.

[MLA]

Easy to test. Meter's ground lead on main cranking battery ground post, touch meter's positive lead to house battery positive post. Voltage = ground link. Very common issue in the spring when boats get new batteries or batteries reconnected.

[MegatronSS]

#4. No continuous ground on battery #2. Easy check.


Would checking that he different than the directions above?

[MegatronSS]

Easy to test. Meter's ground lead on main cranking battery ground post, touch meter's positive lead to house battery positive post. Voltage = ground link. Very common issue in the spring when boats get new batteries or batteries reconnected.


Gotcha. Will be a bit before I can do it

[MegatronSS]

Easy to test. Meter's ground lead on main cranking battery ground post, touch meter's positive lead to house battery positive post. Voltage = ground link. Very common issue in the spring when boats get new batteries or batteries reconnected.


That did it - thanks for the help. Learned a good amount from the issue. It led me to a bad terminal connection on the shared ground, fixed it and good to go!