Wetsounds horrible sq

[stevemarich]

Anybody having sound quality issues with the wetsounds rev 10's at surf speeds , I can't seem to get very good sound quality,they are extremely high pitched and can barely hear them when surfing , after a crash and the boat is 25 feet away they sound decent , I'm pushing 300 watts rms to each of them have tried amp at all pass , and high pass , played with about every variation of amp and deck settings , and they have yet to impress me at all , they just sound like loud noise not music any help would be appreciated

[hawgtitan]

I have the Rev 10's with Wet Sounds HTX4 pushing them and at 3/4 volume I have to make them turn it down when surfing. I don't wakeboard, but my kids tell me they can hear every word and every note of the songs from 70 ft. Love them!


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[David Analog]

steve,
The Wetsounds Rev10 has the largest radiating surface area (every other alternative is an 8"), and the largest pod displacement of any tower speaker. Those two issues, more than any other elements, determine the speaker midbass and warmth. Thus, the Rev10 is the warmest HLCD available, and by a fair margin. However, because of the horn-loaded-compression-driver-tweeter (HLCD), the Rev10 is still aggressive in the treble, and that is purposeful for long distance projection. And, because the 10" speaker is housed in an elongated Tupperware container of sorts, rather than a 50 gallon drum, deep bass is limited to midbass. Furthermore, an HLCD is ten times more sensitive than a conventional tweeter so it will ruthlessly reproduce any system flaws, and in particular, source unit or amplifier clipping. Most boaters that have been through the evolution of tower speakers understand what I have stated and their expectations are in line. You could drop back to an 8" surf speaker, like the Wetsounds Icon8 which has a conventional dome tweeter, but you lose size in both speaker and pod, which would make that more of a backwards move. At this point, not knowing every detail of your system, it is hard to predict whether this is an issue of expectation, execution, or product. I can tell you that with the right hideaway EQ, and within reason, the Rev10 can be molded into whatever you want it to be. But based on your comments, that solution may be a bit premature. With certainty, and at minimum, a good marine audio dealer should fully inspect your system and retune.

[viking]

yup sounds like a tuning issue. Have 1pr and Love them. No FAE so boat is loud and can still hear tunes just fine at surf distances over engine & exhaust.

[stevemarich]

David that is why we made the switch from an 8 to a 10 , I did have our local wetsounds distributor help with tuning after the install , we could go back 70+ feet and here them at the store, but the issue is while being close to the boat, the over powering treble makes hard to enjoy,and the people in the boat are covering their ears because of the high pitch.I have the fusion deck , and a rockford marine 600.4 powering the speakers , and in order use the zone control on the head unit so the cabins and sub we're on zone 1 and towers were on zone 2 the towers are ran through an lc2i , maybe I need to run the with the syndx4 instead of current amp , there has to be something I'm missing, these things should rock at surf speeds

[stevemarich]

yup sounds like a tuning issue. Have 1pr and Love them. No FAE so boat is loud and can still hear tunes just fine at surf distances over engine & exhaust.

We will keep trying to tune them , because at this point the Rockford 8s I had last year are blowing these away in sound quality, and I don't by it , something is missing,

[David Analog]

David that is why we made the switch from an 8 to a 10 , I did have our local wetsounds distributor help with tuning after the install , we could go back 70+ feet and here them at the store, but the issue is while being close to the boat, the over powering treble makes hard to enjoy,and the people in the boat are covering their ears because of the high pitch.I have the fusion deck , and a rockford marine 600.4 powering the speakers , and in order use the zone control on the head unit so the cabins and sub we're on zone 1 and towers were on zone 2 the towers are ran through an lc2i , maybe I need to run the with the syndx4 instead of current amp , there has to be something I'm missing, these things should rock at surf speeds

The Rev10s are in a league by themselves and the Rockford speakers aren't in the same conversation. Several independent issues come to mind. First, that which is incredibly loud at 70 feet is painfully loud (MUCH louder) in the boat, and there's no way to get around that simple fact. If the treble is bothersome, then use your darn tone control. If you are at all clipping the amplifier then that shows up immediately as highly strident treble --- and an HLCD forgives nothing. Forever, people have been incorrectly bridging 4-channel amplifiers which sounds harsh, although you would be shocked how many people don't seem to mind. No doubt you can make a large improvement with the Wetsounds SYN-DX4, a really great amplifier....but you have issues that need resolving before you make that upgrade. You must run in the highpass mode, try 100 Hz to start. Narrowing the range prior to the amplifier stage means the amplifier doesn't have to produce as much current, and that translates to less clipping at the same high volume level. You need a true pro to go through your system from voltage supply to the final tune.

[stevemarich]

The Rev10s are in a league by themselves and the Rockford speakers aren't in the same conversation. Several independent issues come to mind. First, that which is incredibly loud at 70 feet is painfully loud (MUCH louder) in the boat, and there's no way to get around that simple fact. If the treble is bothersome, then use your darn tone control. If you are at all clipping the amplifier then that shows up immediately as highly strident treble --- and an HLCD forgives nothing. Forever, people have been incorrectly bridging 4-channel amplifiers which sounds harsh, although you would be shocked how many people don't seem to mind. No doubt you can make a large improvement with the Wetsounds SYN-DX4, a really great amplifier....but you have issues that need resolving before you make that upgrade. You must run in the highpass mode, try 100 Hz to start. Narrowing the range prior to the amplifier stage means the amplifier doesn't have to produce as much current, and that translates to less clipping at the same high volume level. You need a true pro to go through your system from voltage supply to the final tune.

David , we will tune some more, the amp is currently in the 80 hz range high pass mode , and the treble on the tone control was - 4 , which meant we lost some of the cabin sound , and the volume to blow the people in the boat wasn't to hear it at 70 feet it was to hear it at 20 ft , and all we hear is high treble and limited vocals and no mid bass, I might just be a fan of the none hlcd speakers ,this is my first set of them, we will keep tuning to try and figure it out

[David Analog]

David , we will tune some more, the amp is currently in the 80 hz range high pass mode , and the treble on the tone control was - 4 , which meant we lost some of the cabin sound , and the volume to blow the people in the boat wasn't to hear it at 70 feet it was to hear it at 20 ft , and all we hear is high treble and limited vocals and no mid bass, I might just be a fan of the none hlcd speakers ,this is my first set of them, we will keep tuning to try and figure it out

You don't get more midbass from smaller speakers in smaller pods. You just get less treble from a non-HLCD surf-speaker, which creates the false perception of more midbass. Having a large 10" driver in a large pod, you have all the true midbass you will every get from a contemporary tower speaker....unless you have other undiscovered issues.
With dominant tower speakers, many run the sub and tower speakers only, getting the fullrange from the tower speaker residual, and giving the in-boat occupants a break, particularly those with forward leaning towers, or low towers, or both.
Wetsounds created the only dual zone EQ for this exact reason, so you can address the tower and in-boat zones independently. With the right equalization, you can easily bend a Rev10 into a surf speaker with a warmer balance.
But from your comments, I suspect that you still have some other system issues to deal with first. Maybe even some fundamental issues like polarity. Once those issues are in hand, there are some options worth exploring, such as a WS420 EQ, or DSP with multiple EQ settings for different usages.

[MLA]

Just a thought, but have you confirmed the mid-bass driver are working by sight and feel. Does the amp have a 1X/10X switch? if so, whats its position.

[David Analog]

Good photos of amplifier wiring/inputs/outputs would be a good start. Typical description of incorrectly bridged.

[New Guy]

Just a thought, but have you confirmed the mid-bass driver are working by sight and feel. Does the amp have a 1X/10X switch? if so, whats its position.
That's what I'm thinking. They cooked the vc on the driver's.

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[stevemarich]

They are bridged correctly , the mid driver is working we are on the water now so far the best way to get the best sound quality was to turn the amp to 50 hz , they do sound amazing when the boat is 30 plus feet away ,I believe the lc2i is part of the problem, we are definitely sounding better with the amp at 50 hz for whatever reason, it is more fluent,and not so high pitched

[MLA]

I believe the lc2i is part of the problem

Swap the RCAs at the back of the head unit and see how the system sounds then.

[stevemarich]

A picture of how the amp is now ,the service out here suckshttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170625/7dea4b1a84039ac56d67169660a93adc.jpg

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[David Analog]

They are bridged correctly , the mid driver is working we are on the water now so far the best way to get the best sound quality was to turn the amp to 50 hz , they do sound amazing when the boat is 30 plus feet away ,I believe the lc2i is part of the problem, we are definitely sounding better with the amp at 50 hz for whatever reason, it is more fluent,and not so high pitched

Looking at your photo, I'm still questioning whether the amplifier is bridged correctly. All four inputs need to be populated, as they are. For all four inputs to be functional, the input selector must be in the 4-chnl. mode. Otherwise, you have an asymmetrical signal and distortion, not to mention bright. I see four RCAs but they must be 'Y'd off in the correct manner and off just two source unit outputs so that L & R are not mixed. So I'm also curious as to the RCA source origin.

50 Hz HP? Not unless the amplifier input section is an octave off, which I guess could be possible.

[stevemarich]

Looking at your photo, I'm still questioning whether the amplifier is bridged correctly. All four inputs need to be populated, as they are. For all four inputs to be functional, the input selector must be in the 4-chnl. mode. Otherwise, you have an asymmetrical signal and distortion, not to mention bright. I see four RCAs but they must be 'Y'd off in the correct manner and off just two source unit outputs so that L & R are not mixed. So I'm also curious as to the RCA source origin.

50 Hz HP? Not unless the amplifier input section is an octave off, which I guess could be possible.

Thanks for all the help David and everyone , the RCA are Y'd , they are correct , I did put the amp back to 4ch , switched it during the trouble shooting, when we swicthed the RCA to come directly off the head unit , instead of the lc2i , it toned it down quite a bit , still could not go over 80hz on the amp , the other issue is the type of music , for country they sound amazing , with the hard Rock , leaving at the 50hz seems to keep it where it sounds really good, got a lot better vocals and midbass , not the over powering treble , and screaming that Slipknot and five finger do , , but in all phases of playing with it at the 30 to 70 feet range they did sound amazing , and the RCA soure is the lc2i that takes the high level outputs to rcas , since the fusion hu only has 2 rca outputs

[David Analog]

Thanks for all the help David and everyone , the RCA are Y'd , they are correct , I did put the amp back to 4ch , switched it during the trouble shooting, when we swicthed the RCA to come directly off the head unit , instead of the lc2i , it toned it down quite a bit , still could not go over 80hz on the amp , the other issue is the type of music , for country they sound amazing , with the hard Rock , leaving at the 50hz seems to keep it where it sounds really good, got a lot better vocals and midbass , not the over powering treble , and screaming that Slipknot and five finger do , , but in all phases of playing with it at the 30 to 70 feet range they did sound amazing , and the RCA soure is the lc2i that takes the high level outputs to rcas , since the fusion hu only has 2 rca outputs

Hopefully you heard a distinct difference when you went from 2-chnl. to 4-chnl. on the input. 4-chnl. with 'Y's provides a discrete L channel for front and a discrete R channel for rear when bridged, which is the goal. 2-chnl. combines L & R at the speaker voice coils which sounds like....(well, not good).

If you can hear a difference between 50 Hz HP and 80 HP on a tower speaker/pod then that is amazing. Or, the front end of the RF amplifier is garbage. I say this because most any really good 10-inch sealed subwoofer is already at half power (- 3dB) at 50 Hz. So what do you think a tower speaker is doing?

Beyond the true dual zone equalization (two EQs in one unit), another reason to add an EQ, like a Wetsounds WS420 for example, is to improve the voltage going into the amplifier. Having to split the RCAs on a HU with modest output voltage may introduce some clipping, unless the amplifier input gains are set inordinately sensitive, which is to be avoided.

[stevemarich]

Hopefully you heard a distinct difference when you went from 2-chnl. to 4-chnl. on the input. 4-chnl. with 'Y's provides a discrete L channel for front and a discrete R channel for rear when bridged, which is the goal. 2-chnl. combines L & R at the speaker voice coils which sounds like....(well, not good).

If you can hear a difference between 50 Hz HP and 80 HP on a tower speaker/pod then that is amazing. Or, the front end of the RF amplifier is garbage. I say this because most any really good 10-inch sealed subwoofer is already at half power (- 3dB) at 50 Hz. So what do you think a tower speaker is doing?

Beyond the true dual zone equalization (two EQs in one unit), another reason to add an EQ, like a Wetsounds WS420 for example, is to improve the voltage going into the amplifier. Having to split the RCAs on a HU with modest output voltage may introduce some clipping, unless the amplifier input gains are set inordinately sensitive, which is to be avoided.

The difference in the 80hz to 50hz wasn't hard to notice with some of the songs we played , with the country that we played , could go up to 100hz and the country music was a good sound . 50hz just seem to be the happy point for the the Rock music at the volumes needed for surfing,

[stevemarich]

Will look into a different way for the zone control , was trying to keep it very simple for when people besides myself drive and I want tunes , but seems like the lc2i might be exaggerating the highs to much , and yes did notice the difference between 2ch and 4ch ,

[jmvotto]

bypass the lc21 and see how it sounds. what is the real purpose of the lc21?

I have been thoroughly impressed with the rev 10 I have heard on different boats.

[stevemarich]

bypass the lc21 and see how it sounds. what is the real purpose of the lc21?

I have been thoroughly impressed with the rev 10 I have heard on different boats.

The lci2 takes the speaker outputs and turns it to an RCA out put when we did bypass it , it did do better , they sound amazing when 30plus feet away , just when surfing in order to hear them we had to turn it up louder than when wakeboard distance, our sound was pretty similar to a mojo pro at distance, when running amp at 50 hz , gonna ditch the lc2i and do something different there , will be a week or two before can test more ,

[jmvotto]

I would get another amp to divide cabins sub, and then towers and a rca line controller or and eq for zone control, with two diff amp you could use zone control on HU as well

[stevemarich]

I would get another amp to divide cabins sub, and then towers and a rca line controller or and eq for zone control, with two diff amp you could use zone control on HU as well

We're using a 400.4 for cabins, that utilities one RCA from hu , a 300.1for the sub that utilities the last RCA from hu , and a 600.4for towers that utilities the speaker outputs through the lc21, that let's have cabins and sub on hu zone 1 and towers on zone 2 , and the sub has remote level control , if I have towers and sub on zone 1 when park and listen towers have to be on to get sub, only want cabins and sub when we park ,

[jmvotto]

ok you got plenty of amps, what head unit is it?

you could us a pac lc1 to fade the towers on and off with a y coming from one of the RCA outputs
https://www.amazon.com/PAC-LC-1-Remote-Amplifier-Controller/dp/B0002J226O

I use it to separate my cabins from my bow speakers when the kids do want to hear our music .

[stevemarich]

ok you got plenty of amps, what head unit is it?

you could us a pac lc1 to fade the towers on and off with a y coming from one of the RCA outputs
https://www.amazon.com/PAC-LC-1-Remote-Amplifier-Controller/dp/B0002J226O

I use it to separate my cabins from my bow speakers when the kids do want to hear our music .

It's the fusion hu that came with the boat ,

[MLA]

The Fusion 205 is my least favorite head unit because it only has one pair of full-range RCA outs, yet is has 2 zone plus woofer level. The dual zone volume cannot work properly unless you put in a hi to low converter and get ALL the speakers on external amps. The OP has done this with the audio control unit, but seems it may be inducing some unwanted attenuation.

Ive used the Kicker KIS-LOC as well as had experience with the Fusion passive converter. Both work well and do not seem to alter the tone. I like the active KIS-LOK for amps that might not want to see a hi level input thats simply converted to an RCA plug.

The other issue is that I dont think the 205 allows for independent EQ'ing of the zones. So if you tweak the EQ for a warmer tower sound, you are also effecting the in-boats. This is where an EQ like the WS-420SQ is the ticket, over anything else. A basic dual zone line driver like the Kicker ZXM-RLC will solve the single RCA output issue without splitting RCAs, but it does not solve the tone tweaking.

[David Analog]

With certainty, the LC2i should be removed and has no business being in the tower speaker circuit, if it ever was. Btw, any attempt to equalize low bass into a tower speaker will result in serious distortion and the tower amplifier falling hard on its face.

[stevemarich]

The Fusion 205 is my least favorite head unit because it only has one pair of full-range RCA outs, yet is has 2 zone plus woofer level. The dual zone volume cannot work properly unless you put in a hi to low converter and get ALL the speakers on external amps. The OP has done this with the audio control unit, but seems it may be inducing some unwanted attenuation.

Ive used the Kicker KIS-LOC as well as had experience with the Fusion passive converter. Both work well and do not seem to alter the tone. I like the active KIS-LOK for amps that might not want to see a hi level input thats simply converted to an RCA plug.

The other issue is that I dont think the 205 allows for independent EQ'ing of the zones. So if you tweak the EQ for a warmer tower sound, you are also effecting the in-boats. This is where an EQ like the WS-420SQ is the ticket, over anything else. A basic dual zone line driver like the Kicker ZXM-RLC will solve the single RCA output issue without splitting RCAs, but it does not solve the tone tweaking.

No there is no independent eq with the hu ,and the single high level RCA is a drag with it as well will ditch the lc2i go a different route for the the zone control , like stated before though , our sound beyond 30 feet is amazing sounds just as good as a full dealer installed wetsounds system , and with boat off on the platform they sound amazing , but to hear them while surfing the volume has to be turned up to point of crazy, but to wakeboard we can run at 3/4 or less with awesome sound , it's like there is a 10 foot dead space behind the boat, I do not have the fae yet but the boat is not that loud, might not make sense but thanks for all the help everyone ,

[stevemarich]

An update for this, the lc2i was affecting the tone , it seems to exaggerate the high / treble, was able to change the set up around and actually re go through the amp set up , and with the wetsounds coming directly off the head unit RCA they are doing as expected without having to run the amp at 50hz , it is around 80hz a little over and they are not over powering with treble, with the cabins going through the lc21 you can tell the exaggerated high level, still need to test on the water as the neighbors don't care for loud music , but other than figuring out a different way for zone control or trying the KIS-LOC to replace the lc2i we are on the right track now

[hawgtitan]

I absolutely love my new Rev 10's hooked up to the original rca's, but after reading the last post, I decided to switch the rca cables on the amps to see if there was a difference. WOW!!!!! Like Steve said, it does take a little mid-bass out of the cockpit speakers, but with the sub tuned correctly, it sounds great. I also still need to play with the crossover to maybe get a little more bass out of the cockpit speakers but this definitely made a huge difference! Thanks for the posts!


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[stevemarich]

I will find out more tomorrow, but I think I am fighting an amp issue as well , glad you got some good info out it

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[stevemarich]

Thanks to all for the help, it did actually turn out to be the lc21, and a rca cable issue , got everything changed around , installed a new rca, re tuned and we are rocking now. just need to decide what to do for zone control now since the fusion deck wont support what I want to do. but at least the towers are sounding like they should

[Broke Pilot]

Those LC2i's are meant more for adding a subwoofer to a system. They make other versions (6i, 7i, etc) that are more for full range and some even have eq's.
Does the fusion have any wired speaker outputs? (I've never used or seen one). If so, tap into those for your sub signal to the lc2i, low pass it on the amp. Or heck, the cool thing with the Audio Control units is you can even give it an amplified signal. Tap off your inboat speaker amp outputs and send it to the 2i for a sub signal. Problem solved.
Then take your 2 rca outputs to the full range amps. Put the tower as the rear chamnel and the inboat as front, and now you have a poor mans wetsounds 420 fader control.

If I'm way off base with the fusion let me know and I'll be quiet... lol
I use the audio control units a lot in my vehicle installs. They're almost impossible not to use nowadays with all these factory screen/headunits that are a nightmare to replace.
Gonna be putting an LC8i in my new tow rig with that crap Alpine factory system you can't get away from this weekend.

[stevemarich]

The lc2i have both outputs, a main out and a sub out, I used the speaker outputs off the deck to get signal to lc2i ,and used the main rca output for towers. and I have used the sub portion of one in my truck and it works awesome, using the main output it seems to exaggerate the high level, on the towers it made the sound like crap, but using it on the cabins , their not as good as they were but they still sound great. Ended up just using and RCA line level control for the towers to turn down when I don't want them on , working good so far, might try that though , use the sub out on lc2i for sub , change the filter on deck sub out to run the cabins , thanks for the input

[Broke Pilot]

Yea, I've found the 2i doesn't like full range. I'd tap off your amp to the 2i for the sub and use the head unit for boat and tower. Then you can use the fader to adjust how much inboat you want while you're moving. Just my .02... good luck with it.

[stevemarich]

Thanks , first time ever using it for full range , lesson learned , at least the towers are screaming like they should now. And everything else is working how I want it to , other than I know I get better sound out of cabins , will get that figured at some point, as they sound good and their still the factory cabins