Need Help with My New Audio Set Up

[North Woods Mobius]

I'm looking for some help on my newly-installed amp and bow speaker set up in my 2014 LSV. Last Fall I bought a pair of Kicker speakers to use as bow speakers since my '14 LSV only came with the 4 cabins and 2 tower speakers all run off a single Kicker 300.2 amp. To drive the new set up of 6 cabin speakers I also bought an Exile 15.4 amp so I could have the tower speakers run off the Kicker amp. Over winter storage, I had the dealer do the installation and we picked up the boat this weekend to drop it into the water for the season.

Everything worked great initially, then I started having a problem with the cabin speakers. After about 10 minutes of running audio (either radio or iPod), the cabin speakers cut out while the towers continued to work fine. The only way to get the cabins working again was to toggle off the stereo switch on the helm and power up again, after which everything worked fine for about another 10 minutes before the cabins shut off again. It's almost as if the Exile amp is shutting down for some reason, but the amp never lost power - even after the cabins cut out there was still power to the amp with the blue light on. This happened 5-6 times, after which I gave up and figured I needed to double check how the dealer did the installation. The dealer is an hour away and I REALLY don't have the time or the patience to drag it all the way back there if I can avoid it!

Here are a few pics of the set up as installed by the dealer. As I'm not an audio guy, I'm hoping you guys can spot something obviously incorrectly set up from these pics that hopefully will get me back up and running! Thanks for taking a look, and let me know if you guys can get me sorted out.

Exile 15.4 Set Up Driving the 6 Cabin Speakers:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170507/07a038e59ffe3d4464fc9bbeebc795b0.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170507/7cd465a396e7604917ca199f1b1849ff.jpg

Kicker 300.2 Set Up Driving the 2 Tower Speakers:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170507/cb1ab9c8172d3f241836d537355ce2d9.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170507/f216ca17096b91f796bd20cfe7c9fc9e.jpg


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[uniwarking]

At first glance it appears your power and ground wire are undersized for the amp, I'm sure the fuse is as well. Per exile spec that should be 4AWG wire. I can't be certain without seeing it but the factory likely only used 8AWg for the stock kicker amps. Even if this isn't the cause of your issues it should be upgraded, the wiring and fuse are at risk. I'm guessing your dealer doesn't specialize in audio equipment. Good luck.


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[North Woods Mobius]

At first glance it appears your power and ground wire are undersized for the amp, I'm sure the fuse is as well. Per exile spec that should be 4AWG wire. I can't be certain without seeing it but the factory likely only used 8AWg for the stock kicker amps. Even if this isn't the cause of your issues it should be upgraded, the wiring and fuse are at risk. I'm guessing your dealer doesn't specialize in audio equipment. Good luck.


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I hadn't thought about that, and frankly I expected the dealer to know what would be required to make this all work! Here is a pic of how they're powered. As an audio newbie, I appreciate any feedback on whether this confirms your suspicions on this!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170507/12aeb5541ae9502a04ad5171a26df150.jpg


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[supra790]

I am not an audio expert either, but is the exile amp being set for 2 channels the correct setting? It looks like a 4 channel set up? Maybe the configuration setting needs to be changed to 4 ?

2016 Supra SG 450

[jstenger]

I am not an audio expert either, but is the exile amp being set for 2 channels the correct setting? It looks like a 4 channel set up? Maybe the configuration setting needs to be changed to 4 ?

2016 Supra SG 450

There is only one set of RCA's, so the 2 channel is correct. I am guessing a wire size issue.

[supra790]

There is only one set of RCA's, so the 2 channel is correct. I am guessing a wire size issue.
Okay. I didn't know it had to do with the input. I thought it mattered how it was wired going out to the speakers.

2016 Supra SG 450

[North Woods Mobius]

Fantastic feedback, thanks guys .... You've given me a few good potential leads here, and I've reached out to Exile directly with a detailed description of what I'm dealing to get their support to sort this out. Please keep the suggestions coming, and I'll let everyone know what the guys at Exile suggest on this!

Thanks again, and stay tuned ....

[The_Robo_Fighter]

I am not an audio expert either, but is the exile amp being set for 2 channels the correct setting? It looks like a 4 channel set up? Maybe the configuration setting needs to be changed to 4 ?

2016 Supra SG 450

The amp is going into a "self protection" because of the way it is configured. Looks like whom ever installed your amp was trying to get to a 2ohm load. The kicker speakers are 4 ohm so it isn't possible to get to 2 ohms with three speakers.

You have two options to fix this.

1) continue to run a 2ch system wired at 6ohms (2peakers in series 1 in parallel) and move the speaker wires into the "bridged" outputs.

2) buy a rca splitter and put the amp into 4ch.

Pm me if you to discuss on the phone!

[The_Robo_Fighter]

25553

I hope this helps.

[The_Robo_Fighter]

25553

I hope this helps.

Please ignore the math! Too early for numbers, sorry. Should read 4+4= 8ohms. My bad........

[KG's Supra24]

Option 2 is more ideal, though, right?

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[The_Robo_Fighter]

That is what I would recommend. Higher ohm load will reduce the heat created by the amp and make it more stable. I would buy two rca splitters with a female input and two male outputs and the place the switch to 4ch. Even at 8ohms that amp has plenty of power for those speakers.

[dusty2221]

Does this help? I think you should be able to work thru it without having to go back thru the dealer. The chart shows the top 2 speakers at 2ohm, I believe this is a misprint and should read 4ohm. So each bow speaker will be 4ohm at 150w and your cabin speakers will be wired in parallel bringing them down to 2ohm sharing 225w.

http://i.imgur.com/8N8W8F9.png

Here is the pdf link in case it is to blurry to read
http://www.exileaudio.com/store/downloads/xm15installsheet062514.pdf

[KG's Supra24]

^ That looks like the solution.

Nothing will be at 8 ohm. Bow at 4 ohm and cockpit at 2 ohm.

Amp will need the switch to go from 2 ch to 4 ch. You might also consider full, instead of high pass, if you don't have a sub?

[uniwarking]

Sounds like you guys have this thing figured out, I still think the wiring is undersized though (size should be printed on the insulation).


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[North Woods Mobius]

Guys,

Thanks so much for the *correct* detailed set up. We're not back up at the lake until Memorial Day, so I'm gonna call the dealer tomorrow and have them to get their *ss out to my boat this week or next to fix it themselves so I don't have to lose any water time when we're up next :cool:. Barring that, I'll reconfigure this myself and get them to give the money back that they charged me to incorrectly install it!

Thanks again, and I'll keep you guys posted on how and when I get this new set up working!

[russellsmojo]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170509/a39ebc7bdc96c5c263c6f56f68236054.png

You will need two of these to fix problem. Super easy fix. Follow Dusty's PDF.


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[North Woods Mobius]

Russell/Dusty,

Thanks for the guidance on this, I really appreciate all the help to get your amp and speakers working with my stock set up! I just bought these exact same RCA splitters on Amazon Prime (apparently there really IS no inflation as the price is still $9.99!). I'll throw these on my set up over Memorial Day, switch over to 4CH, and hopefully Get this whole system fired up :cool:


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170509/a39ebc7bdc96c5c263c6f56f68236054.png

You will need two of these to fix problem. Super easy fix. Follow Dusty's PDF.


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[4alkings]

From the pics it looks like the dealer mounted the amp directly to the panel without any spacers. The amp could be overheating. Look at your kicker amp and how it is mounted. Exile amp should be mounted in similar fashion.

[North Woods Mobius]

Gents,

So I installed the RCA splitter and swapped over to the 4 channel set up, but I have one last stupid last question on this .... what tool do I have to use to loosen & tighten the speaker wires on the back of the Exile 15.4 amp? It's in a reallly awkward position and I can't quite see it - I think it's either an Allen wrench or Torx, but I just can't quite tell.

TIA for your help on this as I want to knock this out this morning for our afternoon skiing and surfing sessions!

[ian ashton]

It's an Allen wrench, small. There should be one in the box the amp shipped in.

[North Woods Mobius]

It's an Allen wrench, small. There should be one in the box the amp shipped in.

The Good News: I figured out it was a 2mm Allen Wrench and got everything hooked up, including the RCA Y splitters (I actually figured this out abut 5 min after I hit the panic button and posted my question!)

The Better News: After completing the re-wiring and re-configuration on the Exile 15.4, everything worked great!

The Bad News: After skiing and surfing for 45 min, I lost all 6 cabin speakers again (although the light on the back of the Exile amp stayed blue and never went red). So I'm almost back to Square One ... my last effort will be to ensure that the Dealer actually ran 4 gauge power & ground wires to the Exile amp (I think they're actually 8 gauge). I'll double check the power & ground wires tomorrow to figure out my next steps.... In the meantime, I'll just keep pounding music through my tower speakers!

[ian ashton]

Also I think the way it's wired now is how you want it.

[ian ashton]

So, in the interest of helping, I'm gonna probably hurt your feelings, and I don't want to seem like a dick- the install is kind of a bummer; take it back, don't ask them to fix it, just get your money back. You can use these to highlight your case;

-That wire sucks, and running it through that main distro is weird. Those fuses are gross. It needs a 4awg or 1/0 ran to a battery (or battery switch), and a dedicated fused distribution block. Same for ground (less fused)

-The gains on the 15.4 are probably set a bit high, and they shouldn't be the same (assuming you want the same level across the front and rear pairs)

-I'd also the Crossover switch to Full, can't tell if they are pegged at 250 (which would probably sound aweful) or 90s but they should both be the same, which they appear not to be.

-What's the deal with the small ground wire coming off the 15.4? Is it connected to the 300.2? Either way, that's hackery.

-Invest in some zip ties to clean the wiring up, I can't believe they let this leave the shop looking like this.

[jfox8807]

Ok so I'm gonna try and help. 8 ga is good for 60-80 amps at that short of a run and that a constant flow which is not what an amp does at all. So the 8 gauge is not a major problem. The amp being in 2 channel mode is fine that has to do with input more than anything else. The cabin speakers being wired at 2 ohms is fine as long as they are not bridging two channels together. Best I can tell from the pic they are not. Hard to tell which tho lot of wires there I would not of done it like that. The fuse holders are ugly but that's not a measure of performance. As long as each fuse is less than the max load the wire can handle. Using the stock distribution block is ok as long as it is supplied with an appropriate size wire or the block is fused at less than the max amperage of the supply wire.

Now what I am little worried about is they mounted the amp directly to the carpet. I would of like to seen a spacer same as the kicker to allow max air flow. Cause thermal protection could be the cause. The rcas that they installed look to be rather cheap which could also be an issue. The gain setting could also be an issue and cause an increased risk of going into thermal protection mode.

Also I have a 2011 xlv and my cabin speakers had a factory quick disconnect for the speaker leads which cause me to have intermittent issues due to lack of connectivity.

I also have some question?
are your batteries in good working order.
Will the amp stop working while your playing with engine off

[ian ashton]

It's unlikely it's a thermal issue. I've pushed my 15.4 for upwards of 4 hours at nearly full volume without it going into protect, and mine is mounted on a flat surface without spacers :)

[jfox8807]

Well each amp and install are different. I don't know any of your set up ,but thermal protect mode would cause a full cut out of audio and with the price of 4 rubber spacers being so cheap. It's well worth a try and will not hurt at all.

[North Woods Mobius]

Well each amp and install are different. I don't know any of your set up ,but thermal protect mode would cause a full cut out of audio and with the price of 4 rubber spacers being so cheap. It's well worth a try and will not hurt at all.

Thanks fellas, I really appreciate the help with this. And jfox, thanks for your PM - I'll ping you when I'm back in the country at the end of the week (I'm in London all week). I am generally a pretty handy DIY kinda guy, but the bulk of my DIY work is related to engines and mechanicals on our cars and snowmobiles. My audio capabilities are definitely at the "Pay the Experts To Do It" end of the spectrum, so the fact that my Moomba dealer managed to hack this up so badly is incredibly frustrating to me (not to mention that fact that he's an hour drive away from our lake home, and our lake home is 5 hours away from our actual home ... ).

Let me ask you guys this very basic question: I assume that any thermal-related cut out would normally be accompanied by the light on the amp going red, indicating that it's flipped into safety mode. But the odd thing about my Exile cut-out is not only that it consistently drops within 5 minutes of starting up, but that every time it happens the light stays blue, indicating (at least to my simple mind) that the amp still thinks everything is OK. This was the case all weekend, and I checked periodically to make sure that the Exile light never went red. Is that correct thinking, or would a blue light not necessarily imply that all is well with my Exile 15.4?

And on the speaker wiring, I followed the Exile wiring diagram by checking each speaker wire in each slot to make sure that I mapped each speaker to the right speaker wire input slot (touching the speaker wire to each slot to confirm the location of each speaker). I labeled them to make sure that I knew what was what. Here's a pic of how I rewired it which should be as Exile and you guys suggested:

25670

25671

So according to my following Exile's suggested wiring, and having now installed the RCA splitters as everyone has suggested, the last major item that's been suggested is the 8 gauge versus 4 gauge wiring for the power and ground to the Exile amp. Is there anything else here that I'm missing? Sorry for the cries for help on this, my ego is taking a beating for not being able to figure this out by myself already!

[jfox8807]

I'm gonna go with the 8 verses 4 gauge isn't the issue, but there are test you can do to check. First if the wire was under sized for the amp draw from the amp there will be heat. Play it till it cuts off if it only takes 5 min. fill the power wire if it's hot or hotter than the kicker power wire then there's a problem. 2 if you have a volt meter disconnect the power wire from amp and the factory distorbution block and ohm it out. Should read next to nuthing. Also befor you disconnect power from the amp take the voltage reading from the pos and neg on the amp make sure it's seeing full voltage. You can also conect to the pos and neg power on the amp turn it on let it play see if you have voltage drop. I doubt that's what it is tho.

On the blue indicator light subject. I have all Rockford amps on my boat. They do blue and purple ( blue working, purple fault mode) on my 1200.1 the light hardly ever comes on at all and if it does sometimes it's blue sometimes it's purple. The amps working fine all the time. It's just not soldered well or somthin. Point is it may or may not be working correctly.

The redo on wiring looks fine to me very well done looks much cleaner.

But with it happening at a consistent 5 mins almost makes it a thermal issue. There are simple test to figure out why. Just take me up on that pm and will talk thru it. It'll be lots easier that way.

[BigOrange]

I'm curious if you hear from Exile on this....I'm having similar issue with my Javelin, although mine has just cut out completely, not repeatedly doing it after 5 mins of playing. I've talked to them and they want me to try direct input from a phone to the amp inputs, which I'm ready to do next opportunity at the lake, but not for another 2 weeks. I'm pretty confident my configuration and power wiring is correct (i.e. I have 4 AWG wiring fused correctly and shouldn't be overheating) and my light stays blue as well. Just all output to cabins and sub stopped last time during use. I had a previous post about two weeks ago in audio thread.

[North Woods Mobius]

I'm curious if you hear from Exile on this....I'm having similar issue with my Javelin, although mine has just cut out completely, not repeatedly doing it after 5 mins of playing. I've talked to them and they want me to try direct input from a phone to the amp inputs, which I'm ready to do next opportunity at the lake, but not for another 2 weeks. I'm pretty confident my configuration and power wiring is correct (i.e. I have 4 AWG wiring fused correctly and shouldn't be overheating) and my light stays blue as well. Just all output to cabins and sub stopped last time during use. I had a previous post about two weeks ago in audio thread.

BigOrange,

I reached out to Exile when this first happened a few weeks ago, and I spoke to Donovan Leader. Nice guy, and he seemed to understand my issues. However, beyond the set up changes that were already suggested to me by the guys here, the only other suggestions he gave me were as follows:

1) Double check voltage via batteries and distribution block
2) Swap RCA's when 15.4 cuts out with the RCA via Kicker amp

Beyond that, he said that I would probably have to send him the unit for a potential swap. I'm going to call him back this week given the work I've now done which has unfortunately provided the same result and see if there is anything else I should be doing before I pull it out. My problem (or at least ONE of my problems) is that our '14 LSV stays on our covered hoist 5 hours away at our Lake Home, so I can't just pop out to the garage to tweak and check stuff. I'm getting some great support from the guys here, and jfox is gonna help me try and trouble shoot this next week on the phone, but I'm not back up at the Lake for another month so it's all academic until I can get my hands on it to sort this out :mad:. If you speak to Exile, please post up what they tell you because I find it odd that both our Exile amps shut down without tripping the red light ....

In the meantime, my ego is taking a beating for struggling so much with something that I assumed would be pretty straightforward!