Stargazer Addition

[MMPRES]

Has anyone tried to switch out the paddlewheel perfect pass for the Stargazer satellite guided system? My family has a G23 w/ Stargazer and going to the paddlewheel. Especially with me being a bigger guy that pulls the hell out of the boat, there is a night and day difference behind my Craz when it comes to set momentum.

Has anyone tried the conversion on their own without dealer involvement? I'd like to avoid the labor cost if it's feasible.

If you have done it with the dealer, what's the ball park I need to budget?

[jmvotto]

you sure its the cruise and not the weight difference in the boats ? Try the g23 without the cruise to verify.

[MMPRES]

you sure its the cruise and not the weight difference in the boats ? Try the g23 without the cruise to verify.
I know for sure. I've been pulled by boats with the paddlewheel and on stargazer and there is a noticeable difference between the two. There is a lag due to the no satellite version relying on a certain amount of revolutions of the paddlewheel to determine the speed. Additionally, there would be an exaggerated difference in the G as there is a significant weight difference between the two. But it pulls more consistently despite all the added weight.

[5:00]

I switched over the the Nautic Laugic over the summer and it has been working great for me. It is different but it has been working well. I don't know how this compares to the Stargazer though.

https://forum.moomba.com/showthread.php?28658-Perfect-pass-when-surfing&highlight=nautic

[jmvotto]

looks pretty simple from the website if you already have the correct display

[5:00]

The only time consuming part was removing the entire floor but even that wasn't so bad. Other than that it was almost plug and play. The plug ends came ready to go so no crimping anything. I had to go into the PP and calibrate the speed against a separate GPS receiver. That was easy enough with the right manual and I learned my old system was off to begin with by 2 MPH.
I called them before ordering to confirm I had chosen the right one. Everything worked in the end.
Not trying to sell this over any other system, this just worked for my needs.

[MMPRES]

Not trying to sell this over any other system, this just worked for my needs.

I appreciate the advice. I don't have any brand loyalty. I was just referring to the system of GPS guided speed control and didn't realize there were other options besides Stargazer.

I'll look into it, and hopefully get it put together for next season.

Unfortunately, have already packed up the boat for the summer. :(

[gregski]

I know for sure. I've been pulled by boats with the paddlewheel and on stargazer and there is a noticeable difference between the two. There is a lag due to the no satellite version relying on a certain amount of revolutions of the paddlewheel to determine the speed. Additionally, there would be an exaggerated difference in the G as there is a significant weight difference between the two. But it pulls more consistently despite all the added weight.
I suspect that this is due to the throttle response settings in the controller, not the difference of paddlewheel vs. GPS. In fact, the paddlewheel will provide a better "instantaneous" measure of speed; one revolution of the wheel is a very exact distance and it won't "lag", "slip" or care about weight in or behind the boat. If anything, I would think there could be a little bit of lag in GPS.

[That Guy]

What sport are you doing that you notice this? Just curious. Keep us updated on what you come up with.

[parrothd]

What sport are you doing that you notice this? Just curious. Keep us updated on what you come up with.


It's not the paddle wheel causing the issue, it's actually more accurate than the gps version. If you're a bigger guy adjust the PP settings to reflect it..... :)

https://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=49216

[pslitty]

I have a 2008 xlv and had the paddle wheel version. I was having issues with surging while wake boarding and surfing. Upgraded to the gps version and it solved all my issues.


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[MMPRES]

What sport are you doing that you notice this? Just curious. Keep us updated on what you come up with.

It's only become an issue with wakeboarding.

[MMPRES]

I suspect that this is due to the throttle response settings in the controller, not the difference of paddlewheel vs. GPS. In fact, the paddlewheel will provide a better "instantaneous" measure of speed; one revolution of the wheel is a very exact distance and it won't "lag", "slip" or care about weight in or behind the boat. If anything, I would think there could be a little bit of lag in GPS.

I can see in theory how those systems work. But the heavier you weight your boat, it will decelerate more quickly

I'm only speaking to my experience. But I know that with my riding, riding behind a boat with paddlewheel vs. GPS, the pull is more consistent with GPS. The engine is more "proactive" (for lack of a better term) on GPS than with paddle wheel. On GPS, the engine is only permitted to operate within a specific speed range and the engine will react accordingly with less lag than the paddlewheel. For instance, hit some chop with the paddlewheel guided cruise and the boat will drastically accelerate through the chop which results in a oppositely drastic slowdown and so on until finally stabilizing. This problem does not occur, at least with so much wax and wane, utilizing GPS cruise. Maybe in a vacuum, they perform similarly. And I'll admit that when I'm one of only a few boats in our riding area, it's not so much of a problem. But this rarely happens. Especially as our lake become progressively busier over time, glass waters are few and far between.

[MMPRES]

It's not the paddle wheel causing the issue, it's actually more accurate than the gps version. If you're a bigger guy adjust the PP settings to reflect it..... :)

https://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=49216

It's very possible I don't have my current setup properly programmed. I'll have to look into it more in depth when I pull it out next season.

[5:00]

Mine is adjusted so I have to hit the throttle pretty hard on the start but that is the way I want it. I didn't have to touch that when switching to GPS, only speed calibration. I used a portable car nav system for that.

In theory I would think the GPS speed wouldn't lag for more than 1 second. The output of the GPS point positions are at 10Hz, or 10 times per second which is pretty fast. The GPS works off of point positioning for speed, possibly doppler. It would have to actually be moving to read speed but you have to be careful about that. There may be filtering set up also for the GPS output. You don't want your GPS saying you are moving when you are not. Accuracy of this type of GPS is about 3ft. when using the WAAS corrections which we in the U.S. and the lower part of Canada can use if there is open sky to the South East and/or South West. If the GPS shows it is jumping around 10 times per second at +/-3ft (usually not that bad) it is bad for business. That is where the filtering comes in. It needs to be sure not to report "false positives". So depending on how the system works there may be a small bit of lag but I haven't seen that in this system. It is tough to judge a 1 second lag anyway while driving the boat. If there is more lag than that it is in the filtering of the GPS before it leaves the little box.

[gregski]

I can see in theory how those systems work. But the heavier you weight your boat, it will decelerate more quickly
Sure, but the paddlewheel "knows" about this speed change sooner than GPS.



I'm only speaking to my experience. But I know that with my riding, riding behind a boat with paddlewheel vs. GPS, the pull is more consistent with GPS. The engine is more "proactive" (for lack of a better term) on GPS than with paddle wheel. On GPS, the engine is only permitted to operate within a specific speed range and the engine will react accordingly with less lag than the paddlewheel. For instance, hit some chop with the paddlewheel guided cruise and the boat will drastically accelerate through the chop which results in a oppositely drastic slowdown and so on until finally stabilizing. This problem does not occur, at least with so much wax and wane, utilizing GPS cruise. Maybe in a vacuum, they perform similarly. And I'll admit that when I'm one of only a few boats in our riding area, it's not so much of a problem. But this rarely happens. Especially as our lake become progressively busier over time, glass waters are few and far between.
All of these symptoms are due to the controller settings, not the paddlewheel vs. GPS.

The only thing that could adversely affect the paddlewheel is really bad chop if the paddlewheel were to come completely out of the water. I've only heard of this on other brands of boats if they mounted the wheel too far forward. I don't think I've ever heard of it on a Moomba.

[maxpower220]

PP has many settings that can be adjusted. Some of these adjust how quickly and by how much corrections are made. Make sure you have those adjusted correctly. I have stargazer. My version updates 5 times per second. I have never seen the update rate of the paddle wheel. Call Perfect Pass and they can recommend changes that may fix your current system, or they can recommend something that will make you happy. Very helpful people, excellent customer service.

[pslitty]

I should also mention that I did call PP and their recommendation was to upgrade to GPS because it has better control over a heavy boat!


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