Digital capacitor

[jtatexc]

Please don't kill me if this is a stupid question. I caught a bunch of hell from a friend who saw I had 4 amps (1 to my sub, 1 in cab, and 2 for the 2 sets of tower speakers) and not running one. He said I was killing my batteries and risking a lot but couldn't tell me much more. He said I would be smart to wire one in between the battery and my rack of positive terminals but the diagram on the package shows that each amp should have its own and be between the in-line fuse and amp.
I rarely to never listen to music with the boat not running. We are pretty much always on the gas pedal and when not I kill all power and we just chill. Am I in need of 1...or 4...or these? Fine without? Risking anything? Anyone else running them and if so how is it wired? He said this one is what I should put....http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160830/fb21c7432200e3ac2726657f2a38a4b5.jpg

The amps I have are.
Stock kicker from moomba for in cab
Zx450.2 (150w rmsx2 for tower set #1)
Kx400.4 (bridged 200w rmsx2 for tower set#2)
Jl audio 500/1 for sub
I have the dual batteries in the boat and use my trickle charger in between each ride.

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[KG's Supra24]

I've seen David explain but do not remember the details.

You are fine without.

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[MLA]

get a new friend

[clarkely]

I have them ......my audio buddy who helped me said I need them ......i forget all the details .....but it all made sense when explained.....and didn't cost much

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[beat taco]

I guess the question is, do your headlights dim when the bass drops?
But seriously your friend doesn't know as much as he thinks he does. For starters I assume you're running a battery bank for your stereo with a large reserve capacity and it is close proximity to your digital amps.

[gregski]

I like that it's 500K microFarad... because that's wayyy cooler than 0.5 Farad.

[moombahighrider]

I like that it's 500K microFarad... because that's wayyy cooler than 0.5 Farad.

Lol. That's funny.

[mmandley]

From what I learned you need these Caps in Cars due to only running 1 battery, and it not being a deep cycle. Car batteries don't like being loaded and drained unlike Deep Cycle batteries.

In a boat since the application is very different working world, and the batteries are deep cycle they are not needed like in an automobile.

4 summers in a row pounding on my 2 6vs with 5100 RMS power and my batteries are doing fine, I am not going to add a Cap.

[David Analog]

Deep cycle versus starting batteries = makes no difference related to caps.
Caps store energy to stiffen the voltage against sagging for just a fraction of a second. Since music is transient by nature there is momentary opportunity for the cap to recharge in between periods of excess demand. Caps can't prop up voltage continuously. Caps cannot elevate voltage. So caps are no replacement for additional battery reserves. More of an esoteric device for a car system. And btw, most of the less expensive caps are worthless in any application.
The biggest issue within a boat is that it's not a daily driver and the cap is totally drained each time you remove power and full-charge from scratch each time you apply power. Caps are supposed to be initially slow charged (which is why they come equipped with a charging resistor). Thus the cap is eventually damaged and becomes a charging system liability.
However, they do look purdy...specially them thar digital ones.

[jmvotto]

if they are Purdy , then damn buy one for sure.....:cool:

[Darter]

However, they do look purdy...specially them thar digital ones.

sez David Analog.

*rimshot*

[David Analog]

sez David Analog.

*rimshot*

Yes, it's ironical.

[zabooda]

They sure have come a long ways since the flux capacitor and more compact.

[philwsailz]

You ABSOLUTELY need a cap on your boat. How else are you gonna keep from burning the balding spot on the back of your head? :D

Phil
Kicker

[David Analog]

You ABSOLUTELY need a cap on your boat. How else are you gonna keep from burning the balding spot on the back of your head? :D

Phil
Kicker

WHAT?!?! I resemble that remark!

[philwsailz]

WHAT?!?! I resemble that remark!

Sometimes I sail my sailboat a certain direction based on how much shade I can get from the main sail..

[jtatexc]

Thanks everyone! You are awesome! I will leave the system as it is....in perfect working order and simply continue to enjoy.

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[KG's Supra24]

.......... But are you going to set your friend straight?

[trayson]

Deep cycle versus starting batteries = makes no difference related to caps.
Caps store energy to stiffen the voltage against sagging for just a fraction of a second. Since music is transient by nature there is momentary opportunity for the cap to recharge in between periods of excess demand. Caps can't prop up voltage continuously. Caps cannot elevate voltage. So caps are no replacement for additional battery reserves. More of an esoteric device for a car system. And btw, most of the less expensive caps are worthless in any application.
The biggest issue within a boat is that it's not a daily driver and the cap is totally drained each time you remove power and full-charge from scratch each time you apply power. Caps are supposed to be initially slow charged (which is why they come equipped with a charging resistor). Thus the cap is eventually damaged and becomes a charging system liability.
However, they do look purdy...specially them thar digital ones.

Why would power be removed from the capacitors? The only way I see this happening is if one is in the habit of turning their perko switch to OFF after using their boat. When I'm done boating and park my boat under the carport, the perko stays in the 1 position and I put the float chargers on them to keep them topped off between outings. So I don't see any opportunity for my capacitors to discharge between uses.

That said, I had a couple capacitors I added to my system mostly because I was doing a re-wire and I had them laying around from a previous audio install. I do understand they probably aren't doing anything for me (because I'm certainly not having dimming headlights! LOL). I was kinda hoping that when my sub amp was getting worked hard and having short by quick clipping, that the capacitor might help. If I'm honest with myself it probably didn't. But it doesn't hurt anything either, so I haven't taken them off...

http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u492/traysonh/Moomba%20XLV/20160524_180924_zpskowfrkb2.jpg

[MLA]

The only way I see this happening is if one is in the habit of turning their perko switch to OFF after using their boat.

This is best practice for an occasional use vehicle like a boat, especially one thats park for long periods like in a marine or storage lot. Much safer to disconnect battery voltage form the boat.

[trayson]

This is best practice for an occasional use vehicle like a boat, especially one thats park for long periods like in a marine or storage lot. Much safer to disconnect battery voltage form the boat.

Interesting. I use my boat 2 to 3 times a week. I have two cars and a motorcycle that will have longer usage gaps and I never bother disconnecting them. (albeit they don't have a switch.). But yeah, I do turn it to off when it gets winterized.

I guess a "regularly used boat" with low downtime means that my capacitors aren't going to die as soon. That's something. :-)

[David Analog]

To be max effective, the capacitor has to be as close as possible to the amplifier primary terminals rather than at the battery end.
If the boat and audio electronics get wet during a hard wind-driven rain storm, without a disconnect in use, whether a breaker or switch, you have power inside the amplifier chassis even though the amplifier is off. The nature of a short caused by water is such that it can burn down the amplifiers without drawing enough current to blow even a very small fuse. For this and other safety reasons, I would always recommend using a convenient master disconnect switch in some form. Btw, those caps can store enough energy to seriously hurt you. Although a very small amount of current, it takes power to keep a capacitor energized. It's not a battery. Another reason I want it off line during long periods of storage.
On another note, let's say you are driving the system hard with prolonged bass notes. Which is not at all unusual. As a musical transient will partially deplete the cap, the cap depends on a moment of low demand to fully restore its charge. During any demand that is more prolonged than a rapid transient peak, a partially discharged cap is now competing with the amplifier for the supply. Now what benefit does it provide?
In most cases they only improve the sound until the placebo effect wears off.

[BrettLee3232]

This is best practice for an occasional use vehicle like a boat, especially one thats park for long periods like in a marine or storage lot. Much safer to disconnect battery voltage form the boat.

So you are suppose to turn it to OFF correct? Want to make sure I'm doing it right lol

Not sure why you would put it to 1.


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[MLA]

So you are suppose to turn it to OFF correct? Want to make sure I'm doing it right lol

Not sure why you would put it to 1.


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I prefer to make use of the OFF position.

If not OFF, I see no difference between 1, 2 or BOTH. System is left with voltage to it.

[BrettLee3232]

I prefer to make use of the OFF position.

If not OFF, I see no difference between 1, 2 or BOTH. System is left with voltage to it.

I was always afraid to plug in my charger with the batteries on. I thought I would fry something haha. My installer said its ok to charge with one battery on but make sure both aren't on. He also recommended to just keep them in the off position when charging though.


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[jtatexc]

.......... But are you going to set your friend straight?
Haha I did. I got no reply from him after sharing that people with way more rms than me weren't using them lmao

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[jtatexc]

I was always afraid to plug in my charger with the batteries on. I thought I would fry something haha. My installer said its ok to charge with one battery on but make sure both aren't on. He also recommended to just keep them in the off position when charging though.


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My dealer when we bought the boat instructed us to turn to "off" after each use and then keep the charger on as much as possible if convenient with the switch off. I plug it in each time I park it in the garage whether it's for a day or a month. Hope that's what I am supposed to do.

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[BrettLee3232]

My dealer when we bought the boat instructed us to turn to "off" after each use and then keep the charger on as much as possible if convenient with the switch off. I plug it in each time I park it in the garage whether it's for a day or a month. Hope that's what I am supposed to do.

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Yep, I do the same and I always freak out when I don't have a plug to charge on nights we stay at hotels lol


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[jtatexc]

Yep, I do the same and I always freak out when I don't have a plug to charge on nights we stay at hotels lol


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Haha us too

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[sandm]

Haha us too


I am in that camp. I turn mine off and plug in charger. once or twice I have forgotten to plug in and I always cringe at the ramp that it's not going to start. has every time :)

I do recall years ago when doing the system in the '06 I inquired about caps and David/mla gave me the same advice. not needed and don't use them. with a dedicated deep cycle to the boat, it's not needed and adds cost, wiring, another link to break in the audio chain and some degree of danger as caps can hurt if touched. looking at trayson's install, some kid goes into the cubby to grab a lifejacket, cooler, towel or whatever and a wave knocks him off balance and ZAP....

[MLA]

I was always afraid to plug in my charger with the batteries on. I thought I would fry something haha. My installer said its ok to charge with one battery on but make sure both aren't on. He also recommended to just keep them in the off position when charging though.


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Depends on the charger, if anything gets fried. Large commercial repair shop chargers have the ability to produce enough voltage in a high setting, to damage electronics. A typical marine on-board charger should not. However, if you have dual banks and a dual bank charger, you should charge with switch off so each bank is isolated from the other. This allows the charger to independently condition and maintain each battery.

[trayson]

looking at trayson's install, some kid goes into the cubby to grab a lifejacket, cooler, towel or whatever and a wave knocks him off balance and ZAP....

That's my evil plan!!!!!!! I only send the kids in there that ask me to pull them on a tube.

(I have already bought the stand off's and a sheet of material to cover up all my wiring with a custom panel with amp cutouts. so ultimately it'll all be covered from those would be tubers)