'14 LSV Sub box

[FlatLander7]

My factory sub "kicked" out on me so while my Rev 10s were getting installed I had them throw in a xs-10 in stock location. The system as a whole sounds good but I was expecting alot more bass, not tremendous, but right now you can barely tell there is a sub in boat. I'm asking the audio gurus if they think a new box would cure the lack of bass or if I need a bit more amp. Amp pushing in boats and sub is a kicker kxm 800.5.

24227

[FlatLander7]

24228
Amp pushing inboats and sub

[KG's Supra24]

Is it in a box now?

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[nitrodude24]

The factory location is a free air sub, there is no enclosure. It is basically infinite baffle. To answer your question yes an enclosure will help greatly.

[MLA]

To start with, you swapped a 10 for a 10, so no gain in surface area, which = moved air. To make a real difference, you would need to go with a bigger woofer or substantially more wattage. Or go from a sealed to a ported enclosure. So in some regards, your OEM sub may have been just as good. Can you answer some questions?

was the old woofer a 2 or 4 ohm?
is the new woofer 2 or 4 ohm?
is there an actual enclosure back there and its approximate external dimensions?
Was the original woofer running as an infinite-baffle setup? If so, is that baffle wall a solid wall that offers 100% front/rear isolation or is it a partial or false wall

[FlatLander7]

Is it in a box now?

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It's in factory hole, I wasnt sure what was behind the helm, if it was IB or what and I haven't got back to take a look.

[FlatLander7]

The factory location is a free air sub, there is no enclosure. It is basically infinite baffle. To answer your question yes an enclosure will help greatly.
Ok that's what I figured but I hadn't had time to check it all out.

[FlatLander7]

To start with, you swapped a 10 for a 10, so no gain in surface area, which = moved air. To make a real difference, you would need to go with a bigger woofer or substantially more wattage. Or go from a sealed to a ported enclosure. So in some regards, your OEM sub may have been just as good. Can you answer some questions?

was the old woofer a 2 or 4 ohm?
is the new woofer 2 or 4 ohm?
is there an actual enclosure back there and its approximate external dimensions?
Was the original woofer running as an infinite-baffle setup? If so, is that baffle wall a solid wall that offers 100% front/rear isolation or is it a partial or false wall
Don't know about the stock kicker sub new sub is 4 ohm 300 watt RMS 600 peak free air sub
https://wetsounds.com/pages/products/XS-10FA.html

[KG's Supra24]

It's in factory hole, I wasnt sure what was behind the helm, if it was IB or what and I haven't got back to take a look.

As MLA questioned ... Were extra steps taken (above factory install) to completely separate the front and rear of the sub? IE: Is there any air space above the panel the sub is on?

Without proper execution, (which is likely more difficult than a sealed box) an infinite baffle sub is likely to leave you underwhelmed.

I'll let someone like MLA fill in more info on amp but, at a glance, it looks like the amp is setup more for a 2 ohm load. With a 4 ohm load, I think it's a little light on power.

[MLA]

Don't know about the stock kicker sub new sub is 4 ohm 300 watt RMS 600 peak free air sub
https://wetsounds.com/pages/products/XS-10FA.html

I didnt want to assume anything regarding the original, but had a feeling it was the Kicker KM10 and it would have been the 4 ohm, im 99.99% sure of that. The sub chnl of the KXM800.5 has a potential of 400W rms. Since both the old and new woofers are 4 ohm, you really made a lateral move in terms of output. Both woofers are being driven by the same 200W rms, so no increase there. Both are 10", so no increase there.

Since the application is infinite baffle, but still not sure if the boat is constructed properly yet, going with a true IB woofer should improve the sound quality, but not much of an increase in overall bass output. However, if the facade is a false wall and open at the top, neither woofer is the ideal woofer for an IB configuration in that boat. Even with the 10FA being a true IB woofer, its still not going to perform to its potential with an open facade.

Havent even touched on tuning yet.

So, if that facade (wall) is a solid wall top to bottom offer 100% isolation between the front and rear, swap the 4 ohm 10fa for the 2 ohm 10fa and retune amp.

If the wall is open, swap to the Kicker KM10 2 ohm, build a proper enclosure and retune amp.

Bad tuning and running the original KM10 in an IB scenario, could have led to its early failure. Its a well built woofer and extremely musical when used in the right enclosure.

[FlatLander7]

I didnt want to assume anything regarding the original, but had a feeling it was the Kicker KM10 and it would have been the 4 ohm, im 99.99% sure of that. The sub chnl of the KXM800.5 has a potential of 400W rms. Since both the old and new woofers are 4 ohm, you really made a lateral move in terms of output. Both woofers are being driven by the same 200W rms, so no increase there. Both are 10", so no increase there.

Since the application is infinite baffle, but still not sure if the boat is constructed properly yet, going with a true IB woofer should improve the sound quality, but not much of an increase in overall bass output. However, if the facade is a false wall and open at the top, neither woofer is the ideal woofer for an IB configuration in that boat. Even with the 10FA being a true IB woofer, its still not going to perform to its potential with an open facade.

Havent even touched on tuning yet.

So, if that facade (wall) is a solid wall top to bottom offer 100% isolation between the front and rear, swap the 4 ohm 10fa for the 2 ohm 10fa and retune amp.

If the wall is open, swap to the Kicker KM10 2 ohm, build a proper enclosure and retune amp.

Bad tuning and running the original KM10 in an IB scenario, could have led to its early failure. Its a well built woofer and extremely musical when used in the right enclosure.
Ok I was a little vague but the kicker is done. Wouldnt play when I got the boat, that's the only reason it was replaced so no lateral move I had to put something in there and that's what they had.

[FlatLander7]

The specs on the fa say it suited for a 1.3cu sealed box, would this be worth the effort with this sub/set up.. I'm asking most of this because I've never had IB or FA subs or setups and am new to it. My go to set up in other boats and my vehicles is a w6 or a w7 in the bow/locker or trunk and be done with it. Just don't have much experience trying to work with this stock sub position.

[FlatLander7]

KG I know you have done several boats, do you have an idea of ahow much room am I going to have to work with under the helm with that raised fiberglass footrest? (Boat is 3.5 hrs away @ the lake)

[MLA]

Ok I was a little vague but the kicker is done. Wouldnt play when I got the boat, that's the only reason it was replaced so no lateral move I had to put something in there and that's what they had.

I got this from your first post. Im not suggesting you put the bad woofer back in. However, going with the Kicker KM10, but the 2 ohm version, and constructing an enclosure is an option, depending on one still unanswered question.

You commented that you expected more from the 10fa? Obviously the new woofer is working better than the broke one, correct? My comment about a lateral move is specifically toward you not noticing a difference between the old woofer before it failed and the new woofer. reason being is because they both have the same cone area and still driven by the same 200W. You made no real upgrade in terms of output, just replaced a bad woofer.


The specs on the fa say it suited for a 1.3cu sealed box, would this be worth the effort with this sub/set up.. I'm asking most of this because I've never had IB or FA subs or setups and am new to it. My go to set up in other boats and my vehicles is a w6 or a w7 in the bow/locker or trunk and be done with it. Just don't have much experience trying to work with this stock sub position.

I do not like running the 10fa in small sealed enclosure. Putting a true IB woofer in a small sealed enclosure is just opposite of placing a non-IB woofer in an IB alignment. Its not going to perform to its full potential. IMO, placing the xs-10 IB in a small sealed enclosure, will not get you what you seek. If you are looking for more bass, not just having a function woofer again, we need to fully understand the original setup. Right now, we know theres 2X the wattage left untapped.

Can someone clarify whether the facade is open at the top or a full wall?

[KG's Supra24]

Open

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[KG's Supra24]

I'm not familiar with that year and the hump. I know mcdye has placed the ws all in one woofer above the hump. You could check it's external dimensions

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[FlatLander7]

I got this from your first post. Im not suggesting you put the bad woofer back in. However, going with the Kicker KM10, but the 2 ohm version, and constructing an enclosure is an option, depending on one still unanswered question.

You commented that you expected more from the 10fa? Obviously the new woofer is working better than the broke one, correct? My comment about a lateral move is specifically toward you not noticing a difference between the old woofer before it failed and the new woofer. reason being is because they both have the same cone area and still driven by the same 200W. You made no real upgrade in terms of output, just replaced a bad woofer.



I do not like running the 10fa in small sealed enclosure. Putting a true IB woofer in a small sealed enclosure is just opposite of placing a non-IB woofer in an IB alignment. Its not going to perform to its full potential. IMO, placing the xs-10 IB in a small sealed enclosure, will not get you what you seek. If you are looking for more bass, not just having a function woofer again, we need to fully understand the original setup. Right now, we know theres 2X the wattage left untapped.

Can someone clarify whether the facade is open at the top or a full wall?
Ok I never heard the km10 since I got the boat it has not worked. I have no reference there ,my references to expecting more was more directed to simply expectations of a 10" sub being barely audible except when boat is out of the water.
Sounds like I need to throw the new sub out and start a fresh with a $200 lesson learned

[MLA]

Cut a new facade and ad a 2nd XS-10fa 4 ohm. Again, only speculating without knowing how that helm is constructed. Where is the subsonic, gain cross-0ver set? Is the sub level knob by chance connected but hidden? Is the sub output from the head unit turned down?

[David Analog]

The specs on the fa say it suited for a 1.3cu sealed box, would this be worth the effort with this sub/set up.. I'm asking most of this because I've never had IB or FA subs or setups and am new to it. My go to set up in other boats and my vehicles is a w6 or a w7 in the bow/locker or trunk and be done with it. Just don't have much experience trying to work with this stock sub position.

I agree with what MLA stated. Even though the manufacturer gives you a sealed box spec, avoid the 1.3 cu.ft. scenario for an infinite baffle 10". Some computer program says it will get a 'Qtc' of XYZ and they may consider that an acceptable minimum. BUT, it simply will not sound good.
Can an infinite baffle 10" sound good? Yes, decent if all is executed correctly. But good execution for an IB subwoofer is going to be nearly impossible in a Moomba....or perhaps more trouble than the results you would get. A true IB 10" typically requires an enclosure of 2.25 cu.ft. up to infinite. That's far larger than a bass-reflex 10-inch and almost as large as a bass-reflex 12-inch including port displacement. So in this particular boat you have better options.

[David Analog]

Ok I never heard the km10 since I got the boat it has not worked. I have no reference there ,my references to expecting more was more directed to simply expectations of a 10" sub being barely audible except when boat is out of the water.
Sounds like I need to throw the new sub out and start a fresh with a $200 lesson learned

Good woofer. Just a bad application is this case. Easy to do when you were simply following the factory or previous example.
Perhaps your dealer will give you consideration in an exchange for a woofer plus enclosure that will fit your boat better.
If not, there are many other brands where an IB 10" works far better, and that would be a good place to sell the driver for a minimal loss.
Classifieds on the MasterCraft forum comes to mind.

[FlatLander7]

Cut a new facade and ad a 2nd XS-10fa 4 ohm. Again, only speculating without knowing how that helm is constructed. Where is the subsonic, gain cross-0ver set? Is the sub level knob by chance connected but hidden? Is the sub output from the head unit turned down?
I'm not 100% sure but pretty sure there is no sub level knob. And yes the sub is at max on HU, ws420eq, and the gain is maxed on the amp on the sub side

[KG's Supra24]

I agree with David. Is it possible to receive credit for the woofer misapplication? Provided the goal is to maintain the factory amp, Ideally, you could swap for a 10 or 12" 2 ohm sub in a sealed enclosure for a modest increase in cost. I think you would see a significant difference.

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[kaneboats]

Ideally, you could swap for a 10 or 12" 2 ohm sub in a sealed enclosure for a modest increase in cost. I think you would see a significant difference.

I built a sealed enclosure and put a 12" 2 ohm sub in it. Fits above the hump on my 2008. Had to relocate a fuse panel but it went in there and stays nice and dry.

[FlatLander7]

I agree with David. Is it possible to receive credit for the woofer misapplication? Provided the goal is to maintain the factory amp, Ideally, you could swap for a 10 or 12" 2 ohm sub in a sealed enclosure for a modest increase in cost. I think you would see a significant difference.

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I doubt it, audio shop put it in and I doubt they will take back a used sub because I made a mistake. I may just sell it and get another sub and build a box to go into factory location.

[MLA]

Maxed gains is whole other. Did you or the shop max them or were they maxed already? This would certainly lead to a failed woofer, regardless of brand.