New Jabsco Ballast King

[yooper]

Some of you may have noticed that Jabsco came out with a faster pump, the "Ballast King" which is rated at 960 GPH, compared to the Ballast Puppy which is 540. In my 2013 Mojo, I have a bow sack piggybacked onto my factory bow ballast, which means the front sac takes a few extra minutes to fill or empty compared to my rears. I thought a nice upgrade would be to replace my factory center pump with a ballast king and hopefully all three will be done filling in roughly the same amount of time.

One problem... it seems that the control module doesn't like the amount of amps that the new one draws and it won't turn it on. The Ballast Puppy draws 11.5 compared to 19 for the Ballast King. I tried trouble shooting to see if it was something else, but everything checks out.... the pump works fine when touched directly to a battery. I unplugged the pumps and switched them around. All three switches will run any of the pumps, and none of the three will start the new one.

Any one have any ideas? I'm thinking I will either need a new control module, or it will need to be reprogrammed (if possible). Another option may be the addition of a relay between the control module and the pump. Would that work?

Bottom line is, this pump is not simply "plug and play" on Moomba systems. At least not on a 2013 Mojo. Does anyone know if they have changed the module on the newer boats? Any and all comments welcome!

[dusty2221]

I think a Relay would solve your problem, that additional amp draw is huge!

[BrokeGuy]

I second dusty.

2016 Moomba Craz
Gunmetal W/ flake
Atomic Orange Accent
Black Deck and Hull

[yooper]

Can either of you explain to me exactly how I would wire one in to get it to work? I get the concept, but I need details on exactly what part (s) I need and how to put it in place.

[nitrodude24]

You use your existing power wire that goes to your current pump as a trigger or ignition wire to the relay, then you will have to run a new power wire to relay and ground. A 5 or 4 pole relay is rate for 30 amps so you will be fine there. Then you run a wire to your new pump from the relay that only pulls power from the newly ran power wire and viola you have a switched relay that doesn't over load the module.

[dusty2221]

This help?

https://forum.moomba.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=24061&d=1463072061

A simple relay like this will work.
http://www.amazon.com/Absolute-RLS125-12-VCD-Automotive-Relay/dp/B0002KR9GG/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1463072013&sr=8-5&keywords=automotive+relay

[gregski]

If you want to use a relay, I would recommend an ignition protected (aka "marine" rated) if you are putting the relay in any confined airspace that could trap fuel vapor (bilge, engine compartment, lockers), not just a standard automotive model. These are exactly the types of sparking devices that you should be concerned about being "marine" rated. If I remember correctly, any of the Cole Hersee "sealed" relays are ignition protected. I think I bought some for about $3 each.

This is a cheap experiment but it's just that, an experiment. The controller may not like the 0.1-0.2A relay current any better than the 20A of the new pump. Maybe it's only monitoring it for over-current protection (short circuit or stalled pump) and it will work. In my homemade monitor solution, I monitor current because a drop in current indicates a pump with no load, meaning it is running dry and I turn it off. If the factory system does anything like this, putting a relay in there wouldn't work. It's still a good experiment and I'd try it but I'm not 100% sure that it will work.

[yooper]

If you want to use a relay, I would recommend an ignition protected (aka "marine" rated) if you are putting the relay in any confined airspace that could trap fuel vapor (bilge, engine compartment, lockers), not just a standard automotive model. These are exactly the types of sparking devices that you should be concerned about being "marine" rated. If I remember correctly, any of the Cole Hersee "sealed" relays are ignition protected. I think I bought some for about $3 each.

This is a cheap experiment but it's just that, an experiment. The controller may not like the 0.1-0.2A relay current any better than the 20A of the new pump. Maybe it's only monitoring it for over-current protection (short circuit or stalled pump) and it will work. In my homemade monitor solution, I monitor current because a drop in current indicates a pump with no load, meaning it is running dry and I turn it off. If the factory system does anything like this, putting a relay in there wouldn't work. It's still a good experiment and I'd try it but I'm not 100% sure that it will work.

ooh! Damn good point on the ignition protection.

I'm pretty sure the factory system does monitor the load as well, so you might be right, it might not work at all.

Do any of the Moomba insiders on here know if there is an updated control box? Or if this one can be modified? I bet it has printed circuit boards in there that won't allow modifications, but I don't know.

[MLA]

Just skimming over this, so please forgive if this has been answered.

Is this used a reversible pump for filling and draining? If so, how are you going to reverse the polarity with a single relay?

[jstenger]

MLA does have a good point.

[dusty2221]

MLA does have a good point.

Yeah, he sure does!

[yooper]

Would this work?

http://i65.tinypic.com/v5elpy.jpg

[jstenger]

Yes it would.

[EricU]

That is a pretty cool relay layout. At first I didn't think that it would work until I followed each relay's input path.

I am assuming that the main switch that controls it, marked "Switch" in the diagram is a three position switch with a middle non-contact "off" position in the middle?

Up or to the left (pole #1) would control the 85/86 trigger input of the bottom relay
Down or to the right (pole #3) would control the 85/86 trigger input of the top relay
Middle would be off for both

[yooper]

That is a pretty cool relay layout. At first I didn't think that it would work until I followed each relay's input path.

I am assuming that the main switch that controls it, marked "Switch" in the diagram is a three position switch with a middle non-contact "off" position in the middle?

Up or to the left (pole #1) would control the 85/86 trigger input of the bottom relay
Down or to the right (pole #3) would control the 85/86 trigger input of the top relay
Middle would be off for both

Exactly right. Here is exactly how I'm thinking about wiring it in using the existing plugs that come on the Mojo. I'm planning on putting both relays inside a plastic project box to help with ignition protection. The relays are supposedly "marine," but a little added safety can't hurt.

http://i66.tinypic.com/317h73s.jpg

I'm using these wire harnesses if you want to follow the wire colors I listed on the drawing.

http://i63.tinypic.com/30iap7q.jpg

[gregski]

I'm planning on putting both relays inside a plastic project box to help with ignition protection. The relays are supposedly "marine," but a little added safety can't hurt.
...well it could actually be worse than not. A plastic project box would only slow down the air exchange rate meaning that it would eventually fill with an air/fuel vapor mix (if your bilge has this environment), but it would not be immediately cleared out when you run your blower.

For "added protection" you would need to use a hermetically sealed box. If your relays are sealed/"marine" than it really doesn't matter. My point is simply that you can't use a plastic project box and think that you've accomplished any level of ignition protection (i.e. to justify using non-ignition protected relays)

[EricU]

...I'm using these wire harnesses if you want to follow the wire colors I listed on the drawing.

http://i63.tinypic.com/30iap7q.jpg

Very nice.

I have used some of the different pre-made wire harnesses like those on a few different projects. For a 20A/12VDC load, make sure that you check the wire sizes on the 30/87 remote power circuit as those harnesses tend to use smaller wire gauges. I know that they are not that long, but I found it more comforting to make my own on the higher draw items such as big pumps or air compressors. It is a pretty standard female blade, (1/4" I think)

I'd like to know how that new pump works out, it would make a great rear transfer pump for switching from goofy to regular (wierdos) footed riders.

[yooper]

The 30/87 wires are 14 AWG. Is that right, or should I go larger gauge?

[EricU]

The 30/87 wires are 14 AWG. Is that right, or should I go larger gauge?

That is a nice boat, expensive pump and you want a bullet proof install to prevent any issues on the lake.

I would get some quality marine grade 12 ga from Anchor Marine or equivalent, spend a little time crimping, soldering and heat shrinking your connections.

[MLA]

Thats a very common connector and female terminal. You could pop out the 14ga 30 and 87 and put in your own with 12ga wire on new terminals. Retain that connector.

[Fastest1]

If you are trying to protect from ignition noise, the case will need to be metal as in a Faraday cage. Plastic would only be good for environmental protection. Though you all are probably referring to the spark potential and not signal noise.