Wet Sounds 420 Install

[ghebert1111]

I'm installing WS 420 under the dash of my 2014 Mojo, I've read the following post
https://forum.moomba.com/showthread.php?10755-WetSounds-420-Upgrade-and-install

and I'm unclear as to how/where to connect the power/ground/mem. I've read that they need to be connected to the same point as the head unit to minimize noise(Ground loop?) So do I need to run the power/ground to the port side and connect to the terminal block that the head unit and amps are connected to?

If that's the case, I plan on running 20 ft RCA cables around the bow and run the power/ground/mem under the floor and over the gas tank as discussed in this thread:
https://forum.moomba.com/showthread.php?19278-2013-LSV-lewisb13-stereo-build/page4&highlight=fishing+wire

If I can wire up the WS420 to something under the helm, to what would I wire each?

[MLA]

The Wet Sounds WS-420 has a:

* Constant B+(battery positive thats hot when the main battery switch is on), Battery - These should share the same battery reference as the amps and head-unit. The ideal place to terminate is at the amps or their distribution point.
* a remote turn-on input. Treat this like an amp

No need for the WS-420 power harness and RCCA's to take different paths to the same destination.

[ghebert1111]

Thanks for the input. I'll try and get it wired up and post some pictures in the next couple of days.

[ghebert1111]

So I complete hooking everything up and power everything up and all is good. I start tuning the amps and am a bit confused by the directions in the 420 manual. Is it saying to tune the amps while they are hooked up to the head unit; and the 420 is not in the loop? That's the way I did it and then hooked everything to the 420 and it sounds and looks pretty good.

The bad news is that when I was going to mount the 420 under the dash, I tugged the wires a bit to get it in position (all power and RCAs are running around the bow) and wham, no power to anything, bilge, pumps, lights, radio. I checked the fuse under my battery switch and it was tripped, so I reset it, flush, and still nothing. I'm going back down there to check the ground connections and see if that is the problem. I didn't have it on more than 15 minutes so I don't think its the batteries however I've got my charger on them just in case.

[ghebert1111]

Went back down there, the battery is charged and everything is working fine. I keep the batteries on a ProSport 20 at all times when in my garage and all the indicators were green before I started. I find it hard to believe that my 2 kicker amps, head unit and WS420 could have drained the batteries in 15 minutes. Could a short have drained the batteries? Other odd thing was I was running on only one batter when the issue occurred so the first thing I did was switch to the other battery and still nothing.

On the plus side, with the gains on the amps turned way down, I have no white noise. I will try to mount the 420 tomorrow and post some pictures of that and my sub installation as well.

[MLA]

I would A) get a little slack in the harness for mounting the EQ without having to tug on the harness or so its not pulled tights when mounted, and B) break out a volt meter and find where the loss of voltage is. This will eliminate the guessing and speculation.

[David Analog]

Gil,
Just so you know, on the older ProSport20s, once the batteries drain the charger will never return to the bulk charging mode (stays stuck in the maintenance mode) until you reset it by unplugging and plugging the AC back in. Might check the age and serial number against ProMariner tech service.
On another note, there is zero point to setting up the amplifiers without the EQ in the circuit. A definite misunderstanding there.

[ghebert1111]

I would A) get a little slack in the harness for mounting the EQ without having to tug on the harness or so its not pulled tights when mounted, and B) break out a volt meter and find where the loss of voltage is. This will eliminate the guessing and speculation.

Slack is the plan for today. If I have the issue again I'll do the voltmeter. Not sure where to test with it, but I guess I can test between power and ground and should see approx 12 volts right. and work from the power block to the amps, etc...

[ghebert1111]

Gil,
Just so you know, on the older ProSport20s, once the batteries drain the charger will never return to the bulk charging mode (stays stuck in the maintenance mode) until you reset it by unplugging and plugging the AC back in. Might check the age and serial number against ProMariner tech service.
On another note, there is zero point to setting up the amplifiers without the EQ in the circuit. A definite misunderstanding there.

My ProSport20 seems brand new and I always unplug it before I switch the battery power on in the boat however I might have missed that once when I was in the boat. I was definitely unplugged when I was testing yesterday.

So with tuning the amplifiers with the WS420, are these the right steps:

- get the 420 installed and working
- turn the gain on all amps down
- unplug rcas from all amps
- turn head unit volume to 80% max
- turn 420 volume to what?
- plug RCA in boat speakers amp
- increase gain until you get distortion and back off slightly
- unplug RCA for boat speakers amp
- repeat for Sub and tower

[David Analog]

Gil,
That's good, so if you have a brand new ProSport charger then it will profile and charge automatically per the correct stage as needed. No manual reset will ever be required to coax it into the bulk mode.

All RCAs should remain plugged in throughout the process....unless you are using a sine wave test tone and multimeter to read a predetermined output voltage. And then you are only establishing the maximum, and not necessarily the final gain setting.
Your EQ master volume should also be set between 80% to full. Both in-boat & tower zones should be set individually to full. The bass zone should not be set any farther up than the maximum normal usage, so about 75% I would say. All equalization set to flat. Understand that these and the amplifier input settings are only intended to find maximum non-clipped output and will not be the final settings based on balancing various zones.
Unfortunately this is an overly simple guide to the tuning process.
I recommend people use a qualified dealer or Odin @ Earmark Marine for their Wetsounds, JL Audio and similar purchases. Odin is an expert in gain structure and finding unity gain through the entire audio path....which is very important. Odin will walk his customers through the process step by step, as simple or advanced as you would like it depending on your technical tolerance level.

[ghebert1111]

Still have some work to do but here's what the final product will look like. I've got the 420 mounted and I've covered a 3/4 inch plywood in carbon fiber wrap that has replaced the carpet wrapped piece that was down there. The sub is in a sealed enclosure with a leg and a metal strap mounted up high to support it. I'm gonna sink a couple of screws through the 3/4 plywood into the front of the subwoofer for additional support. Those screws will be behind sub grill. The grey cable on the right running up from the 420 is a 3.5 mm cable.

23334

Again I had the issue with after running the stereo for a total of maybe 10 minutes, the batteries seem to die.

[David Analog]

Then you will need to approach this with a multimeter. And start by confirming the battery condition.
Bad batteries can take a surface charge that seems to measure the voltage level okay. But they won't hold that charge long term and at the first significant load the voltage drops like a rock. So do this....
Charge the battery(s) overnight until you get a 12.6 to 12.7 volt level, but after the charger has been removed for several hours and the elevated charging voltage has had time to dissipate. That's your true level. If the battery can hold that charge in total isolation for several days without a measurable drop then your battery is probably okay. Kind of a poor mans load test using time versus a load. But if you see that 12.6 or .7 volt level drop to the low 12s in several days, in isolation, disconnected from everything, and with no load, then you know you have a problem.
If the battery checks out okay, then you can work section by section away from the battery source, checking terminals and connectors on both the B+ and ground sides. Again, use a multimeter according to a sequential process and don't waste time on speculation.

[ghebert1111]

Then you will need to approach this with a multimeter. And start by confirming the battery condition.
Bad batteries can take a surface charge that seems to measure the voltage level okay. But they won't hold that charge long term and at the first significant load the voltage drops like a rock. So do this....
Charge the battery(s) overnight until you get a 12.6 to 12.7 volt level, but after the charger has been removed for several hours and the elevated charging voltage has had time to dissipate. That's your true level. If the battery can hold that charge in total isolation for several days without a measurable drop then your battery is probably okay. Kind of a poor mans load test using time versus a load. But if you see that 12.6 or .7 volt level drop to the low 12s in several days, in isolation, disconnected from everything, and with no load, then you know you have a problem.
If the battery checks out okay, then you can work section by section away from the battery source, checking terminals and connectors on both the B+ and ground sides. Again, use a multimeter according to a sequential process and don't waste time on speculation.

So can I just leave everything hooked up, keep the battery switch off and do the testing you suggest, is that correct? Or do I need to disconnect everything except the battery charger?

BTW I have a new ProSport 12 not a 20.

[David Analog]

Yes. As long as nothing else circumvents the switch.
And once fully charged, just for clarity, I would also remove the charger leads while resting the battery for a few days.

[ghebert1111]

I don’t know how these things should be set up but it seems my batteries to switch setup is a bit odd.
I have the following setup, is this correct?

23335

[ghebert1111]

I don’t know how these things should be set up but it seems my batteries to switch setup is a bit odd.
I have the following setup, is this correct?

23335

My question is shouldn't the positive on the lower battery be going to 1 on the battery switch.

[CFD3Captain]

I'm in no means a wiring expert but I will probably tackle a dual battery install in my new boat in the spring. The 1/2 is usually just a graphic position for the switch and the Com side usually comes out of the bottom (main power wire) I think this is where you should have the wire labeled dist block from your graphic (not position 2) Each battery positive cable should go to either 1 or 2 post. So in your diagram the upper battery should go to the 2 side of the switch. I am also not sure about running a negative cable from one battery to the other. On my last boat, I used a negative Bus bar and ran negative cables to it from each battery. Maybe it was overkill, but it seemed right to me.

[ghebert1111]

I'm in no means a wiring expert but I will probably tackle a dual battery install in my new boat in the spring. The 1/2 is usually just a graphic position for the switch and the Com side usually comes out of the bottom (main power wire) I think this is where you should have the wire labeled dist block from your graphic (not position 2) Each battery positive cable should go to either 1 or 2 post. So in your diagram the upper battery should go to the 2 side of the switch. I am also not sure about running a negative cable from one battery to the other. On my last boat, I used a negative Bus bar and ran negative cables to it from each battery. Maybe it was overkill, but it seemed right to me.

I agree with you. The diagram I've provided is how the dealer wired it and it seems to be incorrect, based on my limited googling skills.

[trayson]

If you look at the back side of the switch it should be pretty obvious.

http://bluewatermarinesvc.com/images/bat_switch_dia.gif

Like this. The common is the "load" that powers everything else in your boat... (i.e. I don't have anything wired directly to my batteries, although some people wire the bilge pump bypassing the switch so it's never cut off from power) in this diagram it says "starter" but it's really anything you want powered. starter, stereo, all the boat electronics.

[ghebert1111]

If you look at the back side of the switch it should be pretty obvious.

http://bluewatermarinesvc.com/images/bat_switch_dia.gif

Like this. The common is the "load" that powers everything else in your boat... (i.e. I don't have anything wired directly to my batteries, although some people wire the bilge pump bypassing the switch so it's never cut off from power) in this diagram it says "starter" but it's really anything you want powered. starter, stereo, all the boat electronics.



Here's a picture of my switch as wired from the dealer. It seems that they mixed up the #2 and 1+2 wiring? This makes a little sense as I've been wondering why after tuning the radio with the switch in position 2 and the battery dies why after I switched to position 1, position 1 was dead as well. That's because when I've been switching to position 2 to start with, I've been running off of both batteries.


23338

[trayson]

Here's a picture of my switch as wired from the dealer. It seems that they mixed up the #2 and 1+2 wiring? This makes a little sense as I've been wondering why after tuning the radio with the switch in position 2 and the battery dies why after I switched to position 1, position 1 was dead as well. That's because when I've been switching to position 2 to start with, I've been running off of both batteries.


23338

I'd have to see the back to be sure. (the posts should be labled on the back.) But yes, I would most certainly pull it out and look at the back.

If your suspicion is correct, your switch would likely operate as follows:
Position 1 - the boat electronics wouldn't run. all it's doing is joining the two batteries.
Position 2 - the boat is running off battery #2
Position 1+2 = the boat is running off boat batteries
Position 0 = the boat is either running off battery #1 or it's not powered.... that really depends on the internal workings of the switch which I don't know.

When you look at the back side, it'll be obvious. There's a terminal for battery "1" and a terminal for battery "2" and a "common" to hook up your load to (the wires going to the distro block and to the starter through the floor).

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=107780&d=1440261479


Bottom line, is that to make sure it's right and have peace of mind, get out your cordless drill with the screwdriver bit, and whip off that switch and look at the back of it and the labels on the back. Then grab a pair of pliers or a socket or a crescent wrench and do the swap-a-roo if necessary.

[ghebert1111]

If you look at the back side of the switch it should be pretty obvious.

http://bluewatermarinesvc.com/images/bat_switch_dia.gif

Like this. The common is the "load" that powers everything else in your boat... (i.e. I don't have anything wired directly to my batteries, although some people wire the bilge pump bypassing the switch so it's never cut off from power) in this diagram it says "starter" but it's really anything you want powered. starter, stereo, all the boat electronics.

OK I get what you are saying. I pulled the switch off and the connections are correct according to the labels on the back of the switch. Odd that the common on the back is behind the position 2 on the switch and 1 is behind the position 1+2 on the switch.

[ghebert1111]

I'd have to see the back to be sure. (the posts should be labled on the back.) But yes, I would most certainly pull it out and look at the back.

If your suspicion is correct, your switch would likely operate as follows:
Position 1 - the boat electronics wouldn't run. all it's doing is joining the two batteries.
Position 2 - the boat is running off battery #2
Position 1+2 = the boat is running off boat batteries
Position 0 = the boat is either running off battery #1 or it's not powered.... that really depends on the internal workings of the switch which I don't know.

When you look at the back side, it'll be obvious. There's a terminal for battery "1" and a terminal for battery "2" and a "common" to hook up your load to (the wires going to the distro block and to the starter through the floor).

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=107780&d=1440261479


Bottom line, is that to make sure it's right and have peace of mind, get out your cordless drill with the screwdriver bit, and whip off that switch and look at the back of it and the labels on the back. Then grab a pair of pliers or a socket or a crescent wrench and do the swap-a-roo if necessary.

I was wondering how to test that. I'll go down and test position 1 and see if I get power. If the switch is setup correctly and I was only running off of battery 2 when testing the radio, not sure why after battery 2 dies, battery 1 is dead as well.

[MLA]

There really isnt any wiring for the "1/2 or BOTH" position as that connection is handled mechanically internal of the switch. The only real way to goof the switch wiring, is to put the the common cables on either the 1 or the 2 post and then one battery ends on the C and the other is on the remaining bank post. Sounds like you verified the batteries are on the 1 and 2 posts and all others are on the C post by looking at the back of the switch?

If so, you really need to get in there with a volt meter and start with making sure the batteries are charged. Then go to what doesnt work, and check for battery voltage on the proper wire and work back to the source, as in the switch, until you find where the voltage stops. This could be a breaker or fuse or bad switch.

[ghebert1111]

There really isnt any wiring for the "1/2 or BOTH" position as that connection is handled mechanically internal of the switch. The only real way to goof the switch wiring, is to put the the common cables on either the 1 or the 2 post and then one battery ends on the C and the other is on the remaining bank post. Sounds like you verified the batteries are on the 1 and 2 posts and all others are on the C post by looking at the back of the switch?

If so, you really need to get in there with a volt meter and start with making sure the batteries are charged. Then go to what doesnt work, and check for battery voltage on the proper wire and work back to the source, as in the switch, until you find where the voltage stops. This could be a breaker or fuse or bad switch..

Yes I verified that the switch is wired correctly.

I charged up the batteries and was getting 12.7 and 13. I've disconnected everything from them and will check them on Monday and maybe run them to an auto parts store as well.

Thanks for the assistance.

[ghebert1111]

I'v confirmed my batteries are in very good shape, according to the local interstate store. I will reinstall them and see if I can replicate the issue I was having.