tabs vrs gates

[moombadaze]

been thinking hard about adding surf tabs to my boat, have the ghetto gate and like the wave but we have a short lake and its kind of narrow so we end up making a fairly tight turn at both end and the steering with the gate in use sucks. Not sure if the same holds true for the tabs

so any buddy that has surfed both setups or driven both setups, please give your thoughts on a wave comparison between the two different setups and how the boat handles

[mjr119]

I dont get why people say steering is tough with the gate on.... My buddy has a gate for his Mojo, and it will NOT turn at all if you try to turn the opposite way of the gate. Because it's like adding a big ass rudder on the side of your boat. It fights against turning that way.

But try turning the other way. It should turn same as normal. Maybe better because you arent as listed.

Boat driving 101: with or without a date. Turn AWAY from the surfer. You miss the big rollers and it turns easier, whether you are gated or listed.

just try it.

[moombadaze]

^^^^well aware of everything you said there, issue is the lake, its kinda small, kinda roundish and everyone tries to go in a counter clockwise rotation. if I did what your saying I would end up going against everyone else

[KG's Supra24]

I've driven gate and tab boats that were manufacturer produced surf systems.

I think there certainly is a noticeable difference between the two. I noticed it mostly in the driving straight but wasn't paying much attention to turning. For instance ... I drove a Bu LSV and there was constant pull on the steering wheel. I drove a Craz and I could steer with a finger. I guess the "in between" is the G surf system. I would have called it more gate like but it was definitely more driver friendly than the Bu LSV.

[CamperCarl]

i have the manual flow table on my LSV and there is a slight but noticeable drag on the side that they are deployed. Nothing major but noticeable. I'm going to upgrade to the auto flow tabs in the spring.

Depending on the size of the gate, i would think they would produce a more noticeable impact to steering than the tabs. Just my opinion.

[mmandley]

Just from seeing the differences in Surf Gate waves and Tabs I would lean more towards the tabs.

The tabs are pushing the water down, or changing flow from under the boat, this also allows you to run more weight to enhance the wave more. Also when you are turning these are behind you so no noticeable difference in your turning characteristics.

Gates, and tabs to the side like Flow are changing how the water leaves the side of your hull and will effect steering.

I have Manual Flow on my Mojo, when we are weighted and going idle speed <under 5mph> its definitely harder to turn INTO your Flow <gate> side.

Anytime we have surfed and we goto turn when a rider falls its easier to turn into them them because the boat is weighted and naturally wants to go that way.
When your rider falls and you turn Away from them as you should be, the Wave its self is making you turn by pushing the high side.

Now if your Gated or Tabed, but sitting very level in the water then physics say you have to Turn Into the surfer because anything extending the side section of you hull will make turning more difficult.

[cornrickey]

Of the lake is that small they may love you throwing a big old wake both on and off shore.

[Boonejeepin]

For me....

Ghetto gate is the better wave.

Tabs are easy to setup and has little to no effect on steering.


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[sandm]

lucky enough to have driven 07sti's craz and it steered good with the tabs deployed.
it was easy to turn away from surfer to pick them up. did not try turning into surfer. having owned listed boats, that was not the natural way to turn for me.

[moombadaze]

Of the lake is that small they may love you throwing a big old wake both on and off shore.

luckily im not the only boat surfing, but the others are rollin a little ripple and I can tell the riders are having to hold the rope for a reason

[Derrick]

Like Moombadaze, are also considering adding tabs like the wakeland system to our boat. Made a gate this weekend and was blown away at the improvement to the wake length and height. Do the tabs provide this same wave improvement over a listed boat? Anyone else been able to compare the wave with tabs to the wave with the ghetto gate? Wakeland indicated that their system will come with the much larger plates like those on the autoflow 2.0 system.

[mjr119]

Always turn away from the surfer after a fall. If riding regular, turn starboard. If riding goofy, port. Listed or unlisted, gate or no gate. It's the most efficient way to turn around, I promise. I will take videos this weekend if possibly and do a comparison.

Rider falls, left off throttle to idle, turn hard in the opposite direction of the surfer, give a small blast of throttle to get the boat turning, once the nose has clear the wake, you can now do a fast idle towards the rider. When you are about 20 feet away, with the nose directly pointing at the rider, turn hard again (away from surf side still, think of it as being the ONLY way you can turn while surfing), until the boat starts to turn about 45-90 degrees away from the rider, then hit neutral and let the boat float back around, then reverse to rider if necessary. If you time it right the back will float right past the rider and you can toss them the rope easily.

I never deviate from this method.

[Alaskan boat guy]

So I have a 98 Boomerang and this year my family has fell in love with surfing. Buying a different boat is not in my budget any time soon. We always seem to have enough people in the boat for a good wave and I don't feel comfortable putting any more weight in the back of the boat for fear of sinking a corner. That being said would a gate or tabs help my scenario?

[wolfeman131]

yes as it will stop the convergence of the wake behind the boat

you're still going to struggle a bit with making a great wave with that boat. it just isn't big enough.

[Alaskan boat guy]

That being said what tabs/gate are recommended there isn't a dealer here to go talk with and all the marine shops only cater to river boats. Is there a difference between surf tabs and trim tabs?

[wolfeman131]

you're best bet, IMO is to build yourself a gate. do a quick search of the forum and you'll get a ton of ideas/info

[mikenehrkorn]

^^^ what Drew said....simple to build and much MUCH cheaper than installing any type of tabs -- search for "ghetto gates" and you'll find a ton of info!!

[Alaskan boat guy]

Does anyone have dimensions/pictures with a tape measure of the flow surf? That looks way more Sano than a ghetto gate and more up my alley to fab.

[trayson]

Does anyone have dimensions/pictures with a tape measure of the flow surf? That looks way more Sano than a ghetto gate and more up my alley to fab.

I never got around to getting actual measurements. but maybe these pics might help:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-AFkMI7TtW6M/UyddSibSxMI/AAAAAAAAPxg/oPwJYsmnCbo/s800-Ic42/2y8yqy5e.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-jEJZeHrOF1w/UyddTEHEV-I/AAAAAAAAPxg/2gEDdmDRjXg/s800-Ic42/e9una2eg.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-4ZmAf1mfyZ4/UyddUBeqAPI/AAAAAAAAPxg/X4lGqjKmVu8/s800-Ic42/uzehy8y8.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-JEW6Cm_pQvY/UzRQlelzAFI/AAAAAAAAP0M/6tBw_wzh28w/s800-Ic42/flow%252520measurements.jpg

And if you're interested in a different approach, you can certainly look at the NSS style system I did on my previous boat:
https://forum.moomba.com/showthread.php?24375-Trayson-s-DIY-quot-Supra-Surf-System-quot-(SSS)-modeled-after-the-NSS&highlight=supra+trayson%27s

[BamaMojo]

Check out missionboatgear.com


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[Alaskan boat guy]

Thank you guys so much for all the great info it is a big help

[moombadaze]

fyi, called wakeland systems yesterday---system is dealer only install--its the auto flow system, told me to expect to pay around $3,000 to $3,500 installed. That puts it out of my budget big-time. They don't make the auto flow 2 for the LSV

priced out a lenco tab system with the led indicator switch -parts only about $1,100. and I can install with my cheap labor


oh and my questions about turning have nothing to do with picking up the rider--that is not a issue at all

[jmvotto]

fyi, called wakeland systems yesterday---system is dealer only install--its the auto flow system, told me to expect to pay around $3,000 to $3,500 installed. That puts it out of my budget big-time. They don't make the auto flow 2 for the LSV

priced out a lenco tab system with the led indicator switch -parts only about $1,100. and I can install with my cheap labor


oh and my questions about turning have nothing to do with picking up the rider--that is not a issue at all
i was told the same by an sc rep about the wakeland cost , just need to see if they retro fit an xlv.

[Jason05216]

Anyone familiar with these guys?

http://www.missionboatgear.com/

[jmvotto]

very pricey for something you can build for under 50 bucks if your handy

[trayson]

Anyone familiar with these guys?

http://www.missionboatgear.com/


very pricey for something you can build for under 50 bucks if your handy

You took the words right out of my mouth!!!!!!!! OUCH.

$550 to $650? Talk about markup. Yeah, it's a little more polished than some of the homebrew solutions, but still.

[kaneboats]

Well, it does float. That's worth maybe another $40 cuz that is what it costs to replace your gate.

[mikenehrkorn]

My cutting board model seems to float fairly well. ;-)

[Derrick]

How does the wave with flow 2.0 compare to a homemade gate? How do the manual flow tabs compare to the gate? Are the waves longer and taller with the flow or is it the same result as the gate? With the gate, we got our wave longer but I am looking to see if the manual flow of autoflow 2.0 will make it even longer and taller. Getting towards the end of the season and I need to decide if we are going to pull the trigger on the manual flow, wake land system (flow 2.0) or rebuild our gate out of hdpe during the winter. Please let me know when you guys think will make the best surf wave.

[moombadaze]

at this time I'm not going to pursue the tabs anymore, just thinking the expense will outweigh the benefit and Ive been told the ghetto gate wave is better

[mikenehrkorn]

How does the wave with flow 2.0 compare to a homemade gate? How do the manual flow tabs compare to the gate? Are the waves longer and taller with the flow or is it the same result as the gate? With the gate, we got our wave longer but I am looking to see if the manual flow of autoflow 2.0 will make it even longer and taller. Getting towards the end of the season and I need to decide if we are going to pull the trigger on the manual flow, wake land system (flow 2.0) or rebuild our gate out of hdpe during the winter. Please let me know when you guys think will make the best surf wave.

Probably going to be tough to find anyone that has done both on the same boat to answer your questions....most (like me) try the cheaper gate and when that works pretty well (or possibly even better than the much more expensive methods) they don't continue down the path of the other upgrades you mentioned. But I will also be watching for answers cause I have had the same questions myself. :)

[BamaMojo]

at this time I'm not going to pursue the tabs anymore, just thinking the expense will outweigh the benefit and Ive been told the ghetto gate wave is better

Missionboatgear.com


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[moombadaze]

basically have that with my cheap ghetto gate

[2500HD]

at this time I'm not going to pursue the tabs anymore, just thinking the expense will outweigh the benefit and Ive been told the ghetto gate wave is better

I have done both on my santera and I like the tabs better. I feel the wave is way nicer with tabs and you can steer in any direction you want. I personally can't stand having that clunky gate sticking out from the side of my boat. Whoever priced a lenco tab system out at 1100 dollars didn't do much research, I built mine for 450.00

[Derrick]

2500HD, can you provide details on your tab system? Pictures of the system and wave would be appreciated as well.

[trayson]

Probably going to be tough to find anyone that has done both on the same boat to answer your questions....most (like me) try the cheaper gate and when that works pretty well (or possibly even better than the much more expensive methods) they don't continue down the path of the other upgrades you mentioned. But I will also be watching for answers cause I have had the same questions myself. :)

BooneJeepin has done both.

[trayson]

2500HD, can you provide details on your tab system? Pictures of the system and wave would be appreciated as well.

It's in this thread from what I remember:
http://www.supraboats.com/bbs/showthread.php?14955-DIY-Wake-shaper&highlight=2500hd+surf+tabs

[2500HD]

2500HD, can you provide details on your tab system? Pictures of the system and wave would be appreciated as well.

Trayson posted the link to my thread, and since i made the 2 video's i have reproped my boat and figured out the ballast a little better. i also changed the deflection of the fins for the port side since this boat is a goofy side wave maker. Luckily i surf goofy so my wave rocks. haha