Change in-cabins from factory to Polk MM651's worth it?

[bjrow]

Gidday matees,
Have a stock 2014 Mondo with the standard Kicker speakers, 4 in cabin and 2 in bow, has standard factory Sony stereo.
Sound is pretty weak, loud enough but no bass to speak of and was wondering about wether to upgrade them to the Polk MM651's. Tthought I'd get your opinions.
Put a pair of Polks in a Searay185, they were absolutely fantastic. Now they run at about $220AUD a pair so for 3 pairs it is a few $$.
On the stock stereo I've maxed the bass but can't really get much change in output. So I'm guessing the Kickers are not too good down there at the low freqs.
Anybody changed their Kickers out for the Polks and observed wether that change alone was significant?
Thanks in advance for any feedback.

[brain_rinse]

Check out some of the 8" cabin speakers out now. Exile, Wetsounds, JL and Kicker all have options in the bigger size. Polks are nice but I think the larger diameter is going to make a much bigger impact.

[brain_rinse]

Maxing the bass isn't helping though. Really you should look into a sub upgrade if you want bass.

[David Analog]

There isn't going to be enough difference from one brand of 6.5" speaker to another brand of 6.5" speaker to make a giant difference in bass reproduction. Sometimes the difference boat to boat is far more impactful. And amplifier power also has a role.
The Polk MM651UM, a better choice, has a friendlier impedance (4-ohm) plus a continuous midbass cone versus the MM651. Get the Polk because you want an overall accurate and smooth speaker....but not because you it will radically change the bass dynamic. To improve the bass extension, you really need to add a subwoofer.

[mmandley]

Check out some of the 8" cabin speakers out now. Exile, Wetsounds, JL and Kicker all have options in the bigger size. Polks are nice but I think the larger diameter is going to make a much bigger impact.

I did some test fitting of the 8s from Exile, NO WAY they will fit without Serious reconstruction. They wont even fit under the side panels where the speakers are. The front I might have enough room for a pair but if I can't go all 8 then its No 8.

To the OP, I think you will find a nice sound difference between the Kicker and Polk, for most and myself included this upgrade was a no brainier, the sound difference is a richer, warmer feeling mid bass and cleaner smoother sounding tweeter.

The Kickers are not very good at mid bass at all, the tweeters are very crisp and loud, I like this but I prefered the Polks more. Also the Kickers like a good amount of power, I found when I upgraded from the factory 200.4 amp to a 700.5 they were a lot better sounding.

Honestly though if your looking for any bass in your music you need a sub.

[philwsailz]

I'm gonna get my panties in a wad for a minute... I share that completely joking... :D

I get people wanting to swap out "stock" as it is ingrained in our DNA. We no sooner leave a car dealership and turn up the stock radio than we end up finding ourselves driving to the car audio shop. I get it.

That being said, that "stock" Kicker speaker has a lot of engineering behind it. Rubber surrounds, continuous sealed cones, self-draining grills, sealed motors, sealed terminals... You get a whole lot of rugged reliability.

Mike Mandley suggests they want more power... Know they will handle more power but they're not any less efficient than any other speaker in the category. They don't want more power but the can run with more power! For the money to replace "stock" speakers with 3 sets of aftermarket speakers the same money will be better spent picking up a good amp... KXM400.4 comes to mind.

Any speaker will benefit from more power and you already have a good set of speakers. Warm 'em up with a good amp and be prepared to be surprised!

Phil
Kicker

[bjrow]

Thanks for your replies, appreciate you sharing your thoughts and taking the time to assist.

I looked at the 8" speaker options as I found some info while searching thru some threads. cannot see how to make those fit without major modifications however, particularly in the bow setup. Just not brave enough to start hacking away there, then there's the wife..............................
Sooo, looking at the possibility of a sub, thanks Brian, David. Mike.

We looked at a few boats over the weekend in yards to see where they had their subs fitted, seems most put them under the helm. Does this cause a lot of fatigue for the driver? The path from the sub to the drivers' ears is quite a bit shorter than the in cabins to the drivers ears so I am guessing if the rest of the crew experience a "nice" addition of the lows from the sub it would be a little over=powering from the driving position. Am I over thinking this?

David you may have touched on something there, the SeaRay installation resulted in the speakers being mounted on a large flat surface of which it was vented at the bottom by a large opening whereas the Mondo installation seems like a more sealed enclosure setup. Perhaps there is something in this.

Phil; Thanks for your input, great to see your passion and involvement there. There is recently quite a bit of "store" representation of the Kicker gear here and is great to drool over. I share your engineering points having had a good look at one and was suitably impressed. This is why I asked the question in the first place as the frequency and efficiency specs don't seem vastly different and I don't want to throw away good $$ for a negligible improvement.

The amp idea maybe worth consideration. if nothing else being able to bass boost at a selected frequency and having the power to deliver makes some sense.

Any further input/suggestions or own experiences would be welcomed.
Oh well back to work for the week, dreaming of sunny days............

[mmandley]

I'm gonna get my panties in a wad for a minute... I share that completely joking... :D

I get people wanting to swap out "stock" as it is ingrained in our DNA. We no sooner leave a car dealership and turn up the stock radio than we end up finding ourselves driving to the car audio shop. I get it.

That being said, that "stock" Kicker speaker has a lot of engineering behind it. Rubber surrounds, continuous sealed cones, self-draining grills, sealed motors, sealed terminals... You get a whole lot of rugged reliability.

Mike Mandley suggests they want more power... Know they will handle more power but they're not any less efficient than any other speaker in the category. They don't want more power but the can run with more power! For the money to replace "stock" speakers with 3 sets of aftermarket speakers the same money will be better spent picking up a good amp... KXM400.4 comes to mind.

Any speaker will benefit from more power and you already have a good set of speakers. Warm 'em up with a good amp and be prepared to be surprised!

Phil
Kicker

I am in no way saying Kicker speakers are bad. Only that they really wake up with a larger amp.

My new Ram I just got, same thing Phil said, I cranked it up and it's not enough. But I did choose to upgrade to kicker and I'm very impressed.

I think of you get a bigger amp then factory on your cabin and a sub you will be very pleased. The Polks will want a larger amp as well.

Btw thanks for talking to me about my options for my Ram Phil I took your advice and got the kicker packages.

[kaneboats]

When you add a sub you will improve your cabin speakers too. How? You can run them on HP and let the sub take care of the low end which will make the cabins much more efficient and better sounding.

This article explains some of it:

http://knowledge.sonicelectronix.com/car-audio-and-video/car-amplifiers/how-to-tune-and-adjust-amplifier-gains-and-bass-boost/

[philwsailz]

I am in no way saying Kicker speakers are bad. Only that they really wake up with a larger amp.

My new Ram I just got, same thing Phil said, I cranked it up and it's not enough. But I did choose to upgrade to kicker and I'm very impressed.

I think of you get a bigger amp then factory on your cabin and a sub you will be very pleased. The Polks will want a larger amp as well.

Btw thanks for talking to me about my options for my Ram Phil I took your advice and got the kicker packages.

Good deal on the Ram. Glad to know it worked out for ya! Those guys back in skunkworks are doing some amazing things these days. It is shocking what they can do with the DSP processing found in the amps that go into our OEM replacement stuff.

Phil
Kicker

[sivs1]

its funny reading through this thread, last year I replaced my 6 Kicker in cabins with 6 kicker in cabins. Have been super happy with them and they are still powered off the head unit, new amp is needed, just not sure what direction to go.

[David Analog]

When you add a sub you will improve your cabin speakers too. How? You can run them on HP and let the sub take care of the low end which will make the cabins much more efficient and better sounding.

This article explains some of it:

http://knowledge.sonicelectronix.com/car-audio-and-video/car-amplifiers/how-to-tune-and-adjust-amplifier-gains-and-bass-boost/


Respectfully, I wouldn't be so quick to follow the advice of the Sonic tuning link. The author of those instructions read a few things on-line and created his tutorial but without much real audio knowledge. Not at all what you should do. In fact, you never, ever connect a sine wave tone to your speakers. It's a super fast way to smoke a speaker. And unlike music, we are not equipped to discern when a sine wave clips. By the time you hear something ugly it may be too late for your speakers.

[bjrow]

Thanks for the input. A few options there when reading thru your responses.
Will wander thru a few shops here and see what's on offer amp and sub wise.
With the Mondo has anyone put a closed enclosure under the helm where ones feet normally go? Was it restrictive at all?
Any pics to help the grey matter here would be appreciated.
Just trying to fill in the lows that are missing in the stock setup without pounding my insides.....
Cheers

[Jwredmon101]

I had a sealed box in my Mondo .. Could not get enough cubic inches to do a ported box under the helm .. but I still had plenty of foot room.It did cover the farthest back cup holder . So that should give you some insight on how far it came out.

[bjrow]

Thanks Jwredmon101 for the reply.
Tried out a small 8" sub we pulled from a car a while back, boat is a lot different to a car environment, being an open environment (with a sealed sub enclosure) the JL Audio 8" speaker really needed a fair amount of drive to hear much addition to the music. So a bigger sub is required and am looking into options that wont take up too much room.
We don't intend to use any tower mounted speakers so will look at pulling these wires connected to amp2 (factory Kicker 200.4) and connect the paralleled cabins to this and see if they play any better. Did find that the bow speaker pair driven off amp1 had been set to highpass on the amp so changing that to full made things a bit better.
Will have a play in the coming weeks and see what the outcome will be.

[MLA]

Did find that the bow speaker pair driven off amp1 had been set to highpass on the amp so changing that to full made things a bit better.

That's exactly how they should be set. As noted in earlier posts, mid-range speakers are not subwoofers. I would inspect the cross-over frequency maybe, but honestly, I would make any changes there until a permanent sub is in. The whole in-boat system should be tuned as a whole, rather then as 2 individual setups.


We don't intend to use any tower mounted speakers so will look at pulling these wires connected to amp2 (factory Kicker 200.4) and connect the paralleled cabins to this and see if they play any better.

You will likely not gain anything. IIRC, the OEM 5chnl puts out about the same wattage in terms of perceived volume. Any differences will come from tuning. Again, I wouldn't do too much tuning, until a woofer is in place. That's where the low end is going to come from.

[bjrow]

Well I bit the bullet and coughed up some $$ for 3 pairs of Polk MM651UM's, installed and tested Sunday morning (all church music of course.......:D).
A significant difference indeed noted, low to mid bass much improved all round. Yes I will look at a sub for those really low notes another day but these speakers have added a lot to what was missing to my ears and I'm pleased with the results. The Sony head unit is back to all zeros for the Low, Mid and High EQ settings (was 10, 3, 6 previously and lots was missing from around 300Hz downwards). Will adjust the amp gain to suit the higher efficiency of the speakers to ensure the amp doesn't become overdriven.
Thanks all for your input, much appreciated. Highly recommended mod from my experience.