New Tower Speakers!

[CMAC21]

So I feel like I've read every forum I can possibly look at. I don't personally have any buddies with tower speakers I'm interested in. I've got an 06 Möbius and it has the 4-speaker set up that comes with it. I'm wanting to have the tower speakers replaced by next year for sure. I'm just wanting to go ahead and start getting things for it. Now for my question.. Id like to hear while wake boarding if possible. I was looking at either replacing the 4 6.5 speakers now with 4 new 6.5 wet sounds coaxial speakers OR 2 8" Rockford m282 tower speakers. Obviously with the proper amp that would push them. We don't float a lot so if like to have them really clear to while close around the boat. I don't know to much about them as this is my first summer with this boat. Thanks guys!

[trayson]

If you want to hear them at wakeboard length, you're really going to have to skip over the coaxials and go straight into a HLCD setup.

The most cost effective solution would be to just buy the kicker 6.5" HLCD components and put them in your existing cans. You could later add another pair of cans to make it a 6-pack like I did.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kicker-41KMS674-6-3-4-400W-Peak-Marine-Component-Speakers-Horn-Tweeters-KMS67-/141646414461?hash=item20fac8c27d&vxp=mtr

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjAwWDgwMA==/z/vhcAAOSwNSxVOQ1a/$_57.JPG

Or you can just step up to the big leagues and buy Exile or Wetsounds HLCD tower speakers. Bottom line the coaxials aren't the solution for "wakeboard length". they are what people get for surf speakers.

[MLA]

Id like to hear while wake boarding if possible.

This is absolutely possible with the proper speaker type and amp wattage. A coaxial like the XS-650 or M282 are not going to be the right speaker for the job. You will be better served with a horn loaded compression driver such as the Wet Sounds Rev-8 or Rev-10.

If you want to retain your current 4 pod setup and just upgrade the drivers, then the Kicker KMTS76 would be a great option. Its an HLCD but done as a component setup. http://kicker.com/41KMS674C

[philwsailz]

^^^^What they said^^^^

KMS674

Phil
Kicker

[David Analog]

There's a big difference between the Kicker HLCD tower system with four midbass drivers (in six total pods) and with two midbass drivers (in four total pods). IMO, the six-pack is at least as good as any single pair of 8-inch HLCDs in both output and sound quality. So I would strongly urge anyone to use the extra two midbass drivers. The problem may be finding two extra pods that match the existing and having adequate space across the tower while avoiding the front/rear bars.
If running 6.5" in-boat coaxials on the tower, the Wetsounds certainly is the best choice, but as mentioned above, trying to project at wake range with a conventional 6.5" coaxial, even two pair, is a challenge.
"Hearing" music at wake range and being somewhat intelligible at wake range in the face of engine noise and movement are two very different things. I feel at minimum you need 1) the Kicker HLCD six-pack, or 2) two pair of 8-inch coaxials, or 3) one pair of 8-inch or 10-inch HLCDs....and properly powered! Having to overdrive something that falls short is always harsh and annoying and extra hard on the people in the boat. Anything less then these options, IMO, will cause you to have products in the classifieds in the following off-season.

[trayson]

I have the kicker 6-pack and previously had the 4 speaker setup. Yeah, the 6-pack is a legit upgrade. I wasn't able to find cans that "perfectly" matched my Ariel cans, but the ones from Krypt were close enough.

My OEM setup with Polk Coaxials:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-fbUa6p6Aw4A/VAnlrriX-yI/AAAAAAAAUGM/4oGpBVki5_Q/s800-Ic42/20140903_182310_resized.jpg

Putting in the 4 speaker kicker HLCD setup:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-sexXZBa6ci0/VEVgpELMY8I/AAAAAAAAYLE/F-la6TTMm10/s800-Ic42/GOPR1309.JPG

With the Kicker 6-pack and painted the grills all black:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-DAiJjpqkTzk/VTW6m-Qn70I/AAAAAAAAYpU/Qy9iqjH5EH0/s800-Ic42/20150420_194611.jpg

You can see in the above pic that the clamps are different.
You can see in this pic that the cans are slightly different. the krypt ones are more 'bullet' shaped. But no one would really notice.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-gSPwzwlLycg/VWn-Jdt2gJI/AAAAAAAAZBU/6mcevNagX8s/s800-Ic42/GOPR0546.JPG

[viking]

You can see in this pic that the cans are slightly different. the krypt ones are more 'bullet' shaped. But no one would really notice.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-gSPwzwlLycg/VWn-Jdt2gJI/AAAAAAAAZBU/6mcevNagX8s/s800-Ic42/GOPR0546.JPG

I wouldn't have but now that you mention it I'm going to notice it and it'll bug me every time you post a picture!! LOL :)

[5:00]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-gSPwzwlLycg/VWn-Jdt2gJI/AAAAAAAAZBU/6mcevNagX8s/s800-Ic42/GOPR0546.JPG

What are the Hippity Hop things on the port tower? :confused::confused:

[trayson]

I wouldn't have but now that you mention it I'm going to notice it and it'll bug me every time you post a picture!! LOL :)

I will consider it a privilege to mess with your OCD.


What are the Hippity Hop things on the port tower? :confused::confused:

Those are Exile Bouy Balls. They are FANTASTIC and protect the boat awesome. Sometimes we throw them up there when we're just out for the evening. They work a TON better than those stupid fenders that look like tampons.

At Lake Billy, we used them and had rollers that were so bad that whitecaps broke over the top of the dock, and the boat was always safe and never got a scratch. Yeah, I didn't need 5, as three is typically enough. They're awesome in tie up's too.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-2CjvujyOk-U/Vbq_MBMA2sI/AAAAAAAAZ1A/DxCEOqPNRlo/s800-Ic42/20150725_091349.jpg

http://exileaudio.com/store/index.php/install-accessories/add-ons/exile-buoy-ball-fender.html

[ninedriver]

Hmmm...I'm intrigued. I currently have 4 tower cans with coaxials. I'm wanting to upgrade as well to get more sound/volume from the tower for wake boarding and the inevitable dragging of my kids and friends in the tube. Will the Kicker 41KMS674 setup make a big difference? Also, trayson, you mentioned by upgrading to the six pack it was noticable over the 4, how much? Also, how did you wire the 6 pack and with what amp? Finally, how would the 6 pack kicker set up compare to the exile xm9's. I'm curious because even though there would be 6 cans, I'm thinking they wouldn't hang as low as the xm9s and maybe allow for a bit more head room...

[CMAC21]

Thanks for the replies.. I didn't get to respond bc we were traveling yesterday. So this is my next question, with those kickers, will they sound good/clear up next to the boat. Especially if the boat is turned off. We haven't got into surfing yet so I don't know if we would be doing that next year but I'd like to say we would. Now I don't think I can add another can since it won't match at all on my tower with the 4-pod set up that came on it.

[CMAC21]

22716
This is the current speaker set up I have. I don't think I could match it up very good. I don't think I can buy a set of rev 8/10's right now with the amp to push. I'd probably be sitting close to 2k with that set right? 2k is out of my price range. I've still got to duck hunt this year!

[David Analog]

Thanks for the replies.. I didn't get to respond bc we were traveling yesterday. So this is my next question, with those kickers, will they sound good/clear up next to the boat. Especially if the boat is turned off. We haven't got into surfing yet so I don't know if we would be doing that next year but I'd like to say we would. Now I don't think I can add another can since it won't match at all on my tower with the 4-pod set up that came on it.

The Kicker has really done a nice job with a proprietary midbass driver basket, a very polished crossover design, and a fully & correctly developed horn flare (which is why it requires the additional tweeter pod). The sound quality is good....and the best of any 6.5" HLCD I have heard to date. However, I firmly believe you need the extra midbass driver for near field warmth AND long range projection. When you add the extra midbass driver, you also have the ability to accentuate the horn tweeter so it is a balanced product in either configuration.
Don't forget that when you upgrade to any tower speaker, and certainly with an HLCD, you will need to also upgrade your amplifier power, and primary supply cables.

[David Analog]

Btw, you will have to do a little bit of extra work to adapt an upgrade speaker to the existing pods.

[5:00]

Thanks Trayson, sorry to jack the thread. Carry on.

[philwsailz]

Thanks for the replies.. I didn't get to respond bc we were traveling yesterday. So this is my next question, with those kickers, will they sound good/clear up next to the boat. Especially if the boat is turned off. We haven't got into surfing yet so I don't know if we would be doing that next year but I'd like to say we would. Now I don't think I can add another can since it won't match at all on my tower with the 4-pod set up that came on it.

I use the 6-pack as a near-field monitor in my house system. The horn is one of the best out there in terms of geometry, and does not have many of the issues up close that plague other horns up close. It is a very natural-sounding system.

Phil
Kicker

[trayson]

Hmmm...I'm intrigued. I currently have 4 tower cans with coaxials. I'm wanting to upgrade as well to get more sound/volume from the tower for wake boarding and the inevitable dragging of my kids and friends in the tube. Will the Kicker 41KMS674 setup make a big difference? Also, trayson, you mentioned by upgrading to the six pack it was noticable over the 4, how much? Also, how did you wire the 6 pack and with what amp? Finally, how would the 6 pack kicker set up compare to the exile xm9's. I'm curious because even though there would be 6 cans, I'm thinking they wouldn't hang as low as the xm9s and maybe allow for a bit more head room...

Yes, the difference over coaxials is significant, certainly enough to justify throwing them in your existing cans.

Was the 6 pack a noticeable improvement? Yes, it definitely was. Hard to really quantify as I never really focused on a "before vs after".

I've been told that the 6-pack is comparable to the sound output of a pair of Rev8's or the XM9's. They don't get the lower midbass tones that the larger drivers do, but they do pretty darn good. the magnet on the back of the midbass driver is the same as the larger 8" drivers and there's no tweeter in the way. so there's actually extra surface area relative to traditional HLCD's with the horn in the middle.

The 4 speakers run at 4 ohms and the 6 speakers run at 2 ohms. because the horn takes the high frequencies, and the midbass takes the lower they don't 1/2 the resistance like you might think. It's similar to how component speakers or even coaxials work. so adding the extra pair of midbass takes it from the 4 ohms to the 2 ohms.

I have it wired pretty simple: 2 channels. wired in parallel. For this reason, I'm using a 2 channel amp for my tower speakers so I have the channels stable at 2 ohms. I am using the PPI P600.2

My tower was actually wired with the tower speakers on a 4 channel amp (not bridged) so by using a 2 channel amp, that actually freed up a pair of conductors on each side that I was able to repurpose for Tower Speaker LED's. Love how it worked out. I also put polyfill in with the midbass.


There's nothing wrong with doing it in phases, like I did. start with the 4-pack, see how you like it. it'll most certainly be a solid improvement over coaxials for a pretty modest investment. And then you can decide if it'd make more sense to go with a 6-pack or to bite the bullet and go to 8 or 10" big boy HLCD's.

I really do appreciate the headroom that I gain by only having the 6.5 cans. Sure, someday I'd love to have some Rev10's or something, but they are HUGE and that's something to factor in, not to mention the price of that kind of upgrade.

I'm pretty happy with mine for a good mid-level system. it's hard to beat for the money.

[Gqjeff]

How do the real Krypt loud speakers sound?

[David Analog]

I use the 6-pack as a near-field monitor in my house system. The horn is one of the best out there in terms of geometry, and does not have many of the issues up close that plague other horns up close. It is a very natural-sounding system.

Phil
Kicker

^^^That's worth repeating. And the SQ of a horn can in fact be great. Recently I listened to the JBL Project Array 3-way home speaker using an HLCD mid and HLCD tweet. It imaged. It had depth. It was silky smooth. All passive. No DSP or active EQ. If you haven't heard these speakers, you should. I've been into audio way too long to be surprised. I was surprised.

[David Analog]

How do the real Krypt loud speakers sound?

Pretty Loud. The 7.7" is decent. The 6.5" is horrible. Just a mix of parts without any real refinement.

[Gqjeff]

sounds good.. I might snag a set of these kickers.. Didn't see these before but never really looked LOL..

[CMAC21]

Yea I agree.. I had never looked at these before now but I think it's worth it without being that big of an investment.. Especially if it fits in my cans I have now. On something like that, are you guys something to control the cabin speakers and tower volume separately?

[David Analog]

Yea I agree.. I had never looked at these before now but I think it's worth it without being that big of an investment.. Especially if it fits in my cans I have now. On something like that, are you guys something to control the cabin speakers and tower volume separately?

Yes, you've really got to have the convenient independent zone control at your fingertips and on the fly. It could be as simple as the HU fader....IF the HU is on the drivers side, and IF the fader isn't buried in the menu. From there the options include 1) passive RCA line level controllers like the PAC LC-1, 2) active line level controllers with built in line drivers like the JL Audio or Kicker, or 3) active EQ ranging from an inexpensive Clarion up to the Wetsounds WS420 with a couple of dozens options in between.

[CMAC21]

So with having a EQ to run different zone volumes, will I still run a head unit? Right now the HU is up in that little passenger flip up box and there is a little controller on driver side. And by chance, whoever has the Kicker HLCD's do you have a video clip or link of them playing?

[David Analog]

So with having a EQ to run different zone volumes, will I still run a head unit? Right now the HU is up in that little passenger flip up box and there is a little controller on driver side. And by chance, whoever has the Kicker HLCD's do you have a video clip or link of them playing?

I wouldn't put too much stock in a video clip. They're all impressive in their own way because of the auto volume/compression used in compact recorders. Same with my Sony HD recorder. They're fun to make and share but not particularly realistic. And few are made without a complimentary subwoofer.
Most all EQs have two inputs so if an iphone is your main music source you could use both the HU on occasion and the iphone direct into the EQ. While you don't need to maintain a HU, it's worth considering if you have or plan to use a transom remote control.
Both the JL Audio and Kicker controllers have the line drivers between the HU and amplifiers on the port side with a non-audio-signal control cable connected to the underdash/indash controls. This means that the RCA signal path does not need to make two transverse runs. Both neat and efficient....if you maintain the HU, and if the HU has the required iphone input.

[MLA]

So with having a EQ to run different zone volumes, will I still run a head unit? Right now the HU is up in that little passenger flip up box and there is a little controller on driver side. And by chance, whoever has the Kicker HLCD's do you have a video clip or link of them playing?

Ive done quite a few of the Kicker HLCD setups, but have never done a video with audio because they are a poor showing of the speakers true performance. If it matters any, ive never done a video of all the Wet Sounds HLCDs, Icon or Kicker KM-8 or KMT60 tower setups ive done.

Have you ever heard Britney Spears sing without "auto-tune"? sounds like a cat in heat. Consumer cameras have auto tune and auto gain on the MIC. Makes the speakers sound good and loud way back from them. This does not offer a potential consumer a true perspective of the speaker.

[CMAC21]

Yes that makes complete sense about the video. I appreciate it. Is there a certain amp you recommend to run the 4 pack KMS67?

[MLA]

Kicker KXM400.4

or

Arc Xdi450.4

[David Analog]

A bridged 4-channel amplifier is certainly the most cost-effective way to produce power today. But how about a 2-channel in preparation for a possible future add-on of another pair of midbass drivers making the six-pack?

[MLA]

An amp like the Wet Sounds Syn-2 or Arc KS300.2 would deliver similar 4 ohm wattage and allow for those extra mids later. Just note, the extra mids have technically been retired from the Kicker lineup. They are available as a replacement driver for what comes in the KMT67. You would just need you Kicker dealer to order them as such.

[David Analog]

That's kind of a shame if the six-pack is no longer part of the tower arsenal.
Mike, does the 6.5" replacement driver come with a passive lowpass filter so that it is symmetrical with the other midbass driver?

[MLA]

Yes. If you order two replacement mid-bass drivers, they are complete assemblies just like the pair that comes with the horns in the KMT67.

[philwsailz]

Mike is right. All one has to do is order the service part...
They're sold single so you need to order two but it is totally doable. Yes, low-pass crossover is attached.

It really is kinda like the secret menu at In-N-Out Burger...

Phil
Kicker

[David Analog]

Mike is right. All one has to do is order the service part...
They're sold single so you need to order two but it is totally doable. Yes, low-pass crossover is attached.

It really is kinda like the secret menu at In-N-Out Burger...

Phil
Kicker

OMG, in one 24 hour period I find out that the Kicker midbass is still available with LP filter contained AND that In-N-Out has a secret menu. My head might explode.

[philwsailz]

BOOM

*poof*