2014 LSV Cracked Center Ballast Tank

[jstenger]

Just over 90 hours on the boat, and my center ballast tank is leaking. I have been getting water in the bilge, so I drained and dried everything. Long story short, I saw water coming from the center tank area once it was about 3/4 full. I pulled the two inspection covers, and the fittings and hoses were dry, but you can hear water coming out. I have an email into my dealer, so we will see what he can do. Either way, I am pissed, since there will be no easy fix for this. Boat is just over a year old and out of warranty as usual. This may have been cracked for awhile or even from the factory, but no way to tell. Looks like I have to remove the gas tank and engine to gain enough room to slide out and remove the ballast tank. :mad:

[moombadaze]

well that sucks, you will have to get the fule tank out, but don't think the engine will or trans will have to be pulled. if it wont get covered under warranty don't be afraid to attempt it your self

[jstenger]

I hope your right about the engine, but that tank is pretty long. Good thing I got a working bilge, cause I plan on waiting till fall to fix. Summers are too short to waste up here.

[kaneboats]

If I had to do it myself I'd break it up and remove it before I'd pull the engine. Put a bag down there in its place. Good luck!

[Jrichard1987]

I have been getting excessive water in my bilge area lately also... Hoping its not that tank now that you say that... Can't seem to find where the water is coming from!... Good luck with yours


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[mcdye]

Don't wait too long, so you can warranty the part(s) out... a '14 has a 2yr part / 1yr labor and 3yr Indmar.

[jstenger]

I have already gotten in touch with my dealer.
I tried finding the leak myself with an inspection camera, but there is no room on the sides of the tank. I also took the hoses off and looked inside the tank, but there are molded in supports that prevent the camera from going straight in.

[moombadaze]

joe, when you lift your floor and look at the gas tank, it has a molded hole in it, bet you find your ballast tank with the same molded hole and that is where im betting you find your leak.

[jstenger]

joe, when you lift your floor and look at the gas tank, it has a molded hole in it, bet you find your ballast tank with the same molded hole and that is where im betting you find your leak.
You are correct about the holes. I think I saw three or four of them up the center with my camera. The difference is that they are smaller in diameter than the gas tank hole.

[Jrichard1987]

So left my front ballast full with ibs full overnight and come morning ibs is empty... Guessing I'm getting water in same way you would be... Thinkin about putting dye in ibs bag to see if dyed water ends up in bottom of the boat to confirm ballast leak.


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[jstenger]

So left my front ballast full with ibs full overnight and come morning ibs is empty... Guessing I'm getting water in same way you would be... Thinkin about putting dye in ibs bag to see if dyed water ends up in bottom of the boat to confirm ballast leak.


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv
Just dry out the area around your center drain. Fill the tank full and stop once the IBS starts filling. I could hear the water coming out the tank. Plus I saw the water entering the center drain area. Pull both round inspection covers to see if your fittings are leaking.

[Jrichard1987]

Just dry out the area around your center drain. Fill the tank full and stop once the IBS starts filling. I could hear the water coming out the tank. Plus I saw the water entering the center drain area. Pull both round inspection covers to see if your fittings are leaking.

How do you fill your centre tank when not in the lake? Could just do it when I first drop it in I guess but would be nice to work on it in the garage


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[jstenger]

How do you fill your centre tank when not in the lake? Could just do it when I first drop it in I guess but would be nice to work on it in the garage


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv
Use a Fake A Lake. Put it under your ballast intake.

[Jrichard1987]

Got it opened up no leaks at fittings can't see where it's coming from... Somewhere underneith I guess. Gonna have to get in touch with my dealer and hope they take care of it. Not happy at all with skiers choice right now... Beginning to think I made a bad decision on this one...


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[Jrichard1987]

Ever since it started leaking I have to fill my right rear ballast full and left rear ballast only to half to level the boat off. Anyone else notice this problem?


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[jmvotto]

did you add an IBS piggy backed off the hard tank ?

[Jrichard1987]

Yeah ibs is piggy backed off the vent line from the hard tank


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[smorris7]

You may have crushed it like a tin can if you did not correctly vent the IBS and hard tank. It will create a vacuum in the hard tank when draining the ibs and cause it to crush in on itself. Both the ibs and hard tank need to be vented.


Yeah ibs is piggy backed off the vent line from the hard tank


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[Jrichard1987]

You might be right... I'm positive I plumbed it right though... I plumbed it with a one way check allowing water out the Thruhull and not air in and installed another check valve betwean that check valve and ibs bag to allow air in when emptying... Only way I could see it being an issue is if ibs bag collapsed enough to cause no air to pass through... Possible oversight maybe... Damn


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[Jrichard1987]

Maybe I'll have to install another vent betwean ibs and hard tank?


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[smorris7]

I'll get a picture of the way mine is plumbed. My second check valve is before the IBS (actually on the fill line using a splitter) so once my ibs is drained and flat I can still draw air.

[drewintejas]

I have replaced 2 tanks. They develop leaks at the holes through the center of the tank. The last tank we replaced I cut pieces of pvc and glued them into those holes to keep the tank from flexing and leaking. SC will pay for the parts. The labor isn't too bad, you have to drain the gas tank, remove it then pull the bow tank out. We provided the labor to free for our customer that was out of their warranty.

[jstenger]

I have replaced 2 tanks. They develop leaks at the holes through the center of the tank. The last tank we replaced I cut pieces of pvc and glued them into those holes to keep the tank from flexing and leaking. SC will pay for the parts. The labor isn't too bad, you have to drain the gas tank, remove it then pull the bow tank out. We provided the labor to free for our customer that was out of their warranty.
Was this on an LSV?

[Jrichard1987]

Good to know that it's not a huge job. Dealers gonna wanna tear it apart and see what's broken to warranty the parts anyways so I'll probably just let them replace it since it's not a huge job


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[jstenger]

I plan on taking it out myself and taking it to the dealer instead of taking the whole boat.

[moombadaze]

its possible im suffering with this too. when on vacation a couple weeks ago seemed like I had more than normal water in the bildge, didn't think to much about since it wasn't all the time--we only filled the front tank a few times and now im wondering. will check soon--thinking about just running a garden hose into the tank via the vent line.

so how are you planning to empty the gas tank?

[jstenger]

so how are you planning to empty the gas tank?
A whole weekend of surfing.:p

[jstenger]

Anyone think this issue may turn into a recall?

[wolfeman131]

I don't think any of the boat mfgs do "recalls" like a car mfg

[jmvotto]

I don't think any of the boat mfgs do "recalls" like a car mfg


especially with the aftermarket mods we have all done :???:

[Jrichard1987]

Anyone think this issue may turn into a recall?

Could get pretty painful if we have to change out the tank every year. I personally use it to its limits every time out full ballast every time I'm out riding.


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[Jrichard1987]

I plan on taking it out myself and taking it to the dealer instead of taking the whole boat.

I gotta bring the boat in for gel coat cracks anyways otherwise I would probably do the same.


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[moombadaze]

well if my tank is busted its all my own fault. I piggybacked my ibs off the tank and put a check valve on the vent line, I remember hearing the vent trying to suck in air long after I finished draining it, but if it is busted im going to take Kaneboats idea and look at installing a bag instead of the tank and im wondering if I can get a bag bigger than the tank shoved in there

[BamaMojo]

well if my tank is busted its all my own fault. I piggybacked my ibs off the tank and put a check valve on the vent line, I remember hearing the vent trying to suck in air long after I finished draining it, but if it is busted im going to take Kaneboats idea and look at installing a bag instead of the tank and im wondering if I can get a bag bigger than the tank shoved in there

This. I believe I may be a club member as well. I will investigate at the end of the season


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[jstenger]

And the numbers keep rising........

[jstenger]

For those of you who are out of warranty, there are epoxies out there to patch plastic fuel tanks that might work.

[drewintejas]

These were not in an LSV. They were in a mojo. The bow had the IBS added to it by the customer. These are the only 2 we have seen out of a bunch of Moombas we have sold so I am not thinking it is recall worthy. We drain the fuel tank and use a hoist to lift them out of the boat. The front tank is held in place with 2 brackets and it has few hoses on it. Not a big job the fuel tank is the pita of it all. You can always get a fuel transfer pump and pump the gas into your truck.

[Jrichard1987]

These were not in an LSV. They were in a mojo. The bow had the IBS added to it by the customer. These are the only 2 we have seen out of a bunch of Moombas we have sold so I am not thinking it is recall worthy. We drain the fuel tank and use a hoist to lift them out of the boat. The front tank is held in place with 2 brackets and it has few hoses on it. Not a big job the fuel tank is the pita of it all. You can always get a fuel transfer pump and pump the gas into your truck.
So is it primarily boats with the added ibs having the issue and stock ones are fine?... Maybe too much head pressure from ibs or poor plumbing...


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[moombadaze]

^^^ think it has more to due with draining the fronts when a check valve is used, I picture the tank being collapsed from the vacuum pressure and developing cracks that then develop into leaks , purely operator installation error

[Jrichard1987]

Has anyone with this problem notice their boat floating uneven since having the water leak? I primarily wakeboard and always setup to have an even wake side to side. Since the leak I have to only fill my left rear ballast to half and right rear ballast full to balance it out. Even without ballast boat floats almost 2 inches lower on left side... Hoping its related and not going to be an ongoing issue.


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[smorris7]

That really doesn't make to much since. Seems once the boat is underway any water in the bilge would shift evenly to the rear of the boat.


Has anyone with this problem notice their boat floating uneven since having the water leak? I primarily wakeboard and always setup to have an even wake side to side. Since the leak I have to only fill my left rear ballast to half and right rear ballast full to balance it out. Even without ballast boat floats almost 2 inches lower on left side... Hoping its related and not going to be an ongoing issue.


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[Jrichard1987]

That really doesn't make to much since. Seems once the boat is underway any water in the bilge would shift evenly to the rear of the boat.

I agree. It's weird but i have always filled both bags evenly since I bought the boat. No change in cargo or anything else that could cause it and now it floats completely off... It's a real pita when it comes to wakeboarding!


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[Jrichard1987]

Only other thing I could think of was when we were on vacation before the leak started We road for about 45 min leaning hard to the left side cause most "heavier" people were sitting on that side and we were crossing a big lake. I was driving around 30 mph. But couldn't see that doing anything... It doesn't matter floating parked or driving you can tell in the wake


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[Jrichard1987]

Iv read some previous threads about saturated flotation foam causing this issue on older models. Hoping someone from moomba or sc can chime in.


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[North Woods Mobius]

Not to pile on here, but this week I have now encountered the exact same thing on our 2014 LSV. I installed a 500lbs IBS from Wakemakers with the piggyback configuration when we dropped the boat in over Memorial Day. But due to the risk of "tin-canning" the hard tank, I only installed check valves on the rear 900lbs bags that I upgraded to at the same time.

However, after doing a lot of surfing this week, I was seeing my IBS drain and my bilge filling up (which I then had to drain). So I've been topping off the IBS and draining the bilge to keep my overall weight even front-to-back while we're surfing, but this CANNOT be a permanent solution. I installed the piggy-back IBS exactly how Wakemakers suggests and NOT installed a check valve, so I'm not sure why I'm seeing any leaking.

Based on your experiences, what should I tell the Dealer when I call them? I don't want to lose any water time for the rest of the season by taking the boat in now, so I'll tell them to do the work when they winterize and store it, but this certainly feels like an item that should be covered ...... any experience to share on how best to address this with the Dealer??

[jstenger]

I emailed my service guy, but I have not heard anything back yet.

[BamaMojo]

Not so sure I am a club member. Found a leak In a full hose. Repair made,I will keep the forum updated.


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[JoelFett]

I'm with JRichard. My '15 leans fairly heavy to the port when all tanks drained. I attributed it to the batteries and the amps etc, but if there could be a different reason I'd love to hear about it. I usually have to add 200 lbs or so to the STBD rear corner to level the wake when cruising. In the meantime, I have been keeping my eyes peeled for leaks from the front as has been discussed, but none show up yet. Let's hope it stays that way.

Side note, SC warranty is legit. I putt 1100's in the rear a few weeks ago and didn't add the support braces till later. Well, my new dealership (old one got dropped so now I get SouthTown Watersports in Charlotte) ordered replacement engine panels because they got warped from the heat and pressure. I fully support this awesomeness. Also, anyone looking for a screaming deal on a mondo, they have 5 in stock with AutoFlow that they are really trying to sell. They were pushing hard for me to swap mine in.

[Derrick]

I have had water in the center plug compartment since we got the boat. It's usually only 1-2 inches. We assumed it was normal because it's happened the whole time. I did install the ibs right away when we got the boat. I will see what my dealer says too.

[Jrichard1987]

Gonna be bringing my boat into the dealer this week... Cross my fingers they cover the tank labour and parts under warranty


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[jstenger]

Gonna be bringing my boat into the dealer this week... Cross my fingers they cover the tank labour and parts under warranty


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv
Make sure and get pictures.

Hopefully they cover everything, but I have a feeling they will only cover parts.

[Jrichard1987]

Make sure and get pictures.

Hopefully they cover everything, but I have a feeling they will only cover parts.

Dropped it off yesterday and the punk kid at the service counter tried to tell me that all warranty was up after 1 year.. I told him I'm pretty sure it's 1 year parts and labour and 2 year parts. So I jus told him I have already been dealing with the service manager and tell him to call me when you get it in... Man do I hate ignorant people!


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[ghebert1111]

I think I've started having the same issue. The past couple of days I've noticed the bilge kicking on, which I've never noticed before. I flip the center tank pump switch till I see water coming out of the overflow and have had to do this 3 or four times on both Saturday and Sunday this week.

I installed an IBS bag, piggybacked off the center tank with the kit purchased from Wakemakers, no check valves. With regards to the IBS install, I've read about some people having installed some kind of air valve so the hard center tank doesn't crush itself once the IBS is drained. Now that I've thought about it, this seems like a must have. How else is the hard tank going to get air if the IBS has collapsed in on itself. Technical guys, comments, I'm completely new to this but if this is the case someone needs to update the threads on here regarding the IBS install and get Wakemakers to start adding the air relief valve to their install kits.

I'll get my boat home in a few week and test it out and then to the dealer if I'm cracked. I'll update with my results in a few weeks.

[jstenger]

I think I've started having the same issue. The past couple of days I've noticed the bilge kicking on, which I've never noticed before. I flip the center tank pump switch till I see water coming out of the overflow and have had to do this 3 or four times on both Saturday and Sunday this week.

I installed an IBS bag, piggybacked off the center tank with the kit purchased from Wakemakers, no check valves. With regards to the IBS install, I've read about some people having installed some kind of air valve so the hard center tank doesn't crush itself once the IBS is drained. Now that I've thought about it, this seems like a must have. How else is the hard tank going to get air if the IBS has collapsed in on itself. Technical guys, comments, I'm completely new to this but if this is the case someone needs to update the threads on here regarding the IBS install and get Wakemakers to start adding the air relief valve to their install kits.

I'll get my boat home in a few week and test it out and then to the dealer if I'm cracked. I'll update with my results in a few weeks.
The Wakemakers IBS kit is similar to the factory IBS, except that the factory adds a second fill/drain line to the other leg. Neither uses checkvalves. The only time you would want an air admittance valve is if you had a checkvalve on the IBS.

[BamaMojo]

I think I've started having the same issue. The past couple of days I've noticed the bilge kicking on, which I've never noticed before. I flip the center tank pump switch till I see water coming out of the overflow and have had to do this 3 or four times on both Saturday and Sunday this week.

I installed an IBS bag, piggybacked off the center tank with the kit purchased from Wakemakers, no check valves. With regards to the IBS install, I've read about some people having installed some kind of air valve so the hard center tank doesn't crush itself once the IBS is drained. Now that I've thought about it, this seems like a must have. How else is the hard tank going to get air if the IBS has collapsed in on itself. Technical guys, comments, I'm completely new to this but if this is the case someone needs to update the threads on here regarding the IBS install and get Wakemakers to start adding the air relief valve to their install kits.

I'll get my boat home in a few week and test it out and then to the dealer if I'm cracked. I'll update with my results in a few weeks.

I played with my center ballast tank all day yesterday trying to see if I had an issue. I filled my center tank and closed the valve once filled to see if she was leaking. I then opened both service covers and could hear no water coming out. If my center tank has a leak it is a slow slow leak. However, when I have my center tank and IBS full I do loose water from the IBS. I am starting to think I may have a connecter that is not snug between my IBS and hard tank. After yesterday I do not believe my hard tank is cracked. I will continue to investigate and post results for all to see.


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[ghebert1111]

The Wakemakers IBS kit is similar to the factory IBS, except that the factory adds a second fill/drain line to the other leg. Neither uses checkvalves. The only time you would want an air admittance valve is if you had a checkvalve on the IBS.

I would think that this assumes that because there is not a check valve, the IBS cannot drain and flatten so much (pancake) that it does not allow air to enter the hard tank and based on my rear bag draining experience without a check valve I'd say this is a good assumption however I don't see why maybe once out of 100 this could happen and cause damage to the tank.

[Jrichard1987]

I would think that this assumes that because there is not a check valve, the IBS cannot drain and flatten so much (pancake) that it does not allow air to enter the hard tank and based on my rear bag draining experience without a check valve I'd say this is a good assumption however I don't see why maybe once out of 100 this could happen and cause damage to the tank.

I had a check valve installed by my thru hull vent and also a vent one installed by the ibs bag so in theory shouldn't of collapsed the tank but... If the bag pancakes completely could cut off air flow to hard tank. And I believe that had to be what happened to mine


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[ghebert1111]

Any updates on this from anyone? I've been in London for 2 weeks and haven't had a chance to test this. I will be getting my boat back on the trailer and home on Sunday. I plan on testing my center tank then. I guess to fill it, I can just run a hose into it. I believe I read if you pop up the floor there are some access points to the tank I can use to fill it, is that correct or do I pull the fill line running to the front IBS and fill from there? I'll figure it out and post back my results.

[Jrichard1987]

Mine is still in the shop looks like the tank itself will be covered under warranty and skiers choice was talking about maybe covering some of the labour... Fingers crossed!


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[jstenger]

I will finish my winterizing this weekend and then rip out the gas tank and ballast tank.

[ghebert1111]

I had to order a fake a lake which is being delivered tomorrow. Anyone know which of the ports on the bottom of the boat feeds the center tank, front, middle or rear?

[ghebert1111]

I couldn't wait for the fake a lake so I pulled the hose off of the front connection on the center tank and used my hose to fill it up. First test was no leaks. I couldn't seem to get it filled up to the very top today, I'm about 2 inches short of the top of the tank, so I've got some other tests scheduled for tomorrow.

[BamaMojo]

I couldn't wait for the fake a lake so I pulled the hose off of the front connection on the center tank and used my hose to fill it up. First test was no leaks. I couldn't seem to get it filled up to the very top today, I'm about 2 inches short of the top of the tank, so I've got some other tests scheduled for tomorrow.

Hahahahahah, atta boy Gil!


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[BamaMojo]

I couldn't wait for the fake a lake so I pulled the hose off of the front connection on the center tank and used my hose to fill it up. First test was no leaks. I couldn't seem to get it filled up to the very top today, I'm about 2 inches short of the top of the tank, so I've got some other tests scheduled for tomorrow.

I believe the leak is happening when the IBS is full and putting the additional pressure on the fitting or connector from the IBS to the hard tank. Just my .02


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[jstenger]

Mine starts leaking when the tank is half full. I believe it is at the center seam. I will find out soon.

[ghebert1111]

Jerald, I'm just glad you didn't call out my "I'm about 2 inches short..." string in that post.

[ghebert1111]

OK then, no leaks over night. Got some additional water in the center tanl and still no leaks today. I will probably still add the relief valve for peace of mind
I may test Jerald's .02 next season, but for now she is washed and waxed and 303ed and into the garage for the winter.

Since this is my first boat it's been a fun journey since my first attempt at getting a 2014 LSV earlier this year to getting my 2014 Mojo in June to upgrading bags to getting her in the garage this afternoon. Thanks again everyone that helped me along the way.

[jstenger]

Well this is what I have so far. Read and see why I am really pissed now.

Fuel tank prepped for removal. Only special tool required was tool to remove fuel line, which luckily I had.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd382/Joestenger/20151017_195823.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/Joestenger/media/20151017_195823.jpg.html)

Fuel tank out.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd382/Joestenger/20151017_201841.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/Joestenger/media/20151017_201841.jpg.html)

Big empty bilge with divider between tanks removed.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd382/Joestenger/20151017_203119.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/Joestenger/media/20151017_203119.jpg.html)

So far so good. NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you look at the pic above, you can see a lip below the hinges of the center floor. I am unable to pull out the ballast tank because this lip hangs down to low. So now I have two choices. First is to separate the top half of the boat from the bottom half, which no way in hell is that going to happen, or second is to get my grinder out and cut the lip off so that the tank can slide out. I will have to add a piece of aluminum angle to replace the support I am cutting out.

I would like to know how the dealers are getting the tanks out of the LSV's.

[Jrichard1987]

Well this is what I have so far. Read and see why I am really pissed now.

Fuel tank prepped for removal. Only special tool required was tool to remove fuel line, which luckily I had.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd382/Joestenger/20151017_195823.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/Joestenger/media/20151017_195823.jpg.html)

Fuel tank out.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd382/Joestenger/20151017_201841.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/Joestenger/media/20151017_201841.jpg.html)

Big empty bilge with divider between tanks removed.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd382/Joestenger/20151017_203119.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/Joestenger/media/20151017_203119.jpg.html)

So far so good. NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you look at the pic above, you can see a lip below the hinges of the center floor. I am unable to pull out the ballast tank because this lip hangs down to low. So now I have two choices. First is to separate the top half of the boat from the bottom half, which no way in hell is that going to happen, or second is to get my grinder out and cut the lip off so that the tank can slide out. I will have to add a piece of aluminum angle to replace the support I am cutting out.

I would like to know how the dealers are getting the tanks out of the LSV's.

Not cool!!! Mines in the shop now getting some gel coat cracks fixed then they are going to remove the centre tank... I will know once it happens what they had to do but now I'm a bit happier I didn't tackle this on my own. Would kill me to have to cut up my boat. Keep us posted with yours!!


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[wolfeman131]

If you look at the pic above, you can see a lip below the hinges of the center floor. I am unable to pull out the ballast tank because this lip hangs down to low. So now I have two choices. First is to separate the top half of the boat from the bottom half, which no way in hell is that going to happen, or second is to get my grinder out and cut the lip off so that the tank can slide out. I will have to add a piece of aluminum angle to replace the support I am cutting out.

I would like to know how the dealers are getting the tanks out of the LSV's.

I see what you're saying, but made a phone call and was told that the tank does slide out.

[jstenger]

We shall see. Removing hoses on rear of tank tonight.

[Jrichard1987]

Good luck! Hope nothing needs to be cut! Nothing like chopping up a new boat!!!


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[jstenger]

Well the tank is not coming out without cutting the lip off.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd382/Joestenger/20151019_185138.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/Joestenger/media/20151019_185138.jpg.html)

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd382/Joestenger/20151019_185049.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/Joestenger/media/20151019_185049.jpg.html)

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd382/Joestenger/20151019_185041.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/Joestenger/media/20151019_185041.jpg.html)

[jstenger]

Good luck! Hope nothing needs to be cut! Nothing like chopping up a new boat!!!


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv
Any word on yours yet?

[Jrichard1987]

Nope still at the gel shop. As soon as I hear I'll post what they found.


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[mcdye]

Well the tank is not coming out without cutting the lip off.



Curious if you lifted the nose of the tank while trying to pull it out would it help?

[sivs1]

Sorry to chime in late here. from what I read it sounds like this was caused by too much pressure built up when trying to fill the IBS that was daisy chained off the tank, correct?

If this is the case was the tank even designed to actually tie the IBS into? Is this a dealer or factory installed option?

As I am in the process of deciding what my next boat will be I want to know what to look for.

[jstenger]

Sorry to chime in late here. from what I read it sounds like this was caused by too much pressure built up when trying to fill the IBS that was daisy chained off the tank, correct?

If this is the case was the tank even designed to actually tie the IBS into? Is this a dealer or factory installed option?

As I am in the process of deciding what my next boat will be I want to know what to look for.
The factory does this with the 2015 and newer boats when you order the surf package.

[wolfeman131]

Sorry to chime in late here. from what I read it sounds like this was caused by too much pressure built up when trying to fill the IBS that was daisy chained off the tank, correct?

If this is the case was the tank even designed to actually tie the IBS into? Is this a dealer or factory installed option?

As I am in the process of deciding what my next boat will be I want to know what to look for.

Current theory is that it is from draining when having a check valve installed and therefore causing a "tin can" effect on the ballast tank.

Personally, I find it difficult to believe that the pumps have enough power to crumple the plastic ballast tank.

The factory-installed IBS equipped boats have drains off both legs of the IBS (us DIY folks only used one since there was a hole in the floor from the factory for the center tank vent) and do not have a check valve.

[mmandley]

Gotta admit, I'm glad I spent the extra money to home run my IBS with a separate pump and lines.

[sivs1]

Gotta admit, I'm glad I spent the extra money to home run my IBS with a separate pump and lines.

That was my thinking when I added the IBS to mine. Yes it's a lot of hose, but right now it has it's own thru-hull, pump and two drain pumps. Just seems like what's mentioned above is the lazy way to do it.

[wolfeman131]

Just seems like what's mentioned above is the lazy way to do it.

Kinda like making a FAE out of plastic pipe instead of stainless?

[sivs1]

Hey now.... $30 vs. $500. Now if I had a 100k boat a plastic fae is a bit ghetto.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[rdlangston13]

Current theory is that it is from draining when having a check valve installed and therefore causing a "tin can" effect on the ballast tank.

Personally, I find it difficult to believe that the pumps have enough power to crumple the plastic ballast tank.

The factory-installed IBS equipped boats have drains off both legs of the IBS (us DIY folks only used one since there was a hole in the floor from the factory for the center tank vent) and do not have a check valve.

It doesn't take much to crumple something under a vacuum. We had a 550 gal stainless steel tote tank get crumpled just from gravity draining fluid out when someone forgot to open the vent. Crinkled up just like a dang coke can.

[jstenger]

And the nightmare continues.........

Got the lip cut.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd382/Joestenger/20151023_174808.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/Joestenger/media/20151023_174808.jpg.html)

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd382/Joestenger/20151023_174831.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/Joestenger/media/20151023_174831.jpg.html)

And I still can't get the ****** tank out. It hits the v-drive.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd382/Joestenger/20151023_174948.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/Joestenger/media/20151023_174948.jpg.html)

I lifted the rear of the tank as high as I could. It hits the floor, and there is still about 2 feet of tank in there.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd382/Joestenger/20151023_174955.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/Joestenger/media/20151023_174955.jpg.html)

[jstenger]

Tank isn't out, but I found the source of the leak. The center tank supports are crumpled and cracked.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd382/Joestenger/20151023_175005.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/Joestenger/media/20151023_175005.jpg.html)

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd382/Joestenger/20151023_175057.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/Joestenger/media/20151023_175057.jpg.html)

On a side note, you can see where the screw of one of the carpet snaps is wearing into the top of the tank.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd382/Joestenger/20151023_175109.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/Joestenger/media/20151023_175109.jpg.html)

[Jrichard1987]

This is not looking good for me if I'm gonna end up paying labour... There was a thread awhile back about this and someone claimed they did it themselves no problem... Maybe they just said they were going to do it themselves... Damn...


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[DOCDRS]

And the nightmare continues.........

Got the lip cut.





And I still can't get the ****** tank out. It hits the v-drive.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd382/Joestenger/20151023_174948.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/Joestenger/media/20151023_174948.jpg.html)

I lifted the rear of the tank as high as I could. It hits the floor, and there is still about 2 feet of tank in there.




Hopefully removing the vdrive will give you enough room , without removing intake fittings or tranny

[jstenger]

Hopefully removing the vdrive will give you enough room , without removing intake fittings or tranny
Yes, hopefully that is all I need to remove. A few nuts, couplings, water hoses, and it's off. Fun, fun, fun!!!

[DOCDRS]

Yes, hopefully that is all I need to remove. A few nuts, couplings, water hoses, and it's off. Fun, fun, fun!!!

plus its a heavy sucker

[jstenger]

plus its a heavy sucker

I might hang a chainfall from an overhead roof truss to lift it out.

[Fastest1]

I hate parts that are captured! Sorry to see the seemingly excessive steps you have had to take to solve a simple problem.

[Jrichard1987]

Anyone know the price on the tank? Looks like I'm gonna be doing this myself as skiers won't warranty because I had the ibs installed...


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[jstenger]

Why will they not warranty?

[Jrichard1987]

They must feel having the ibs installed caused the tank to fail. I had check valves installed to prevent it from creating a vacuum but not between the ibs and hard tank. Maybe when the bag collapsed it sealed of path of flow to thru hull vent and caused tank to collapse. Can't see that happening but it's possible.


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[Jrichard1987]

Not really looking forward to going through what your going through... Ever think about replacing hard tank with a bag style? Instead of pulling everything apart to get tank out just cut it out


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[Jrichard1987]

I have replaced 2 tanks. They develop leaks at the holes through the center of the tank. The last tank we replaced I cut pieces of pvc and glued them into those holes to keep the tank from flexing and leaking. SC will pay for the parts. The labor isn't too bad, you have to drain the gas tank, remove it then pull the bow tank out. We provided the labor to free for our customer that was out of their warranty.

Didn't seem like you had these issues removing the tank? Was this on 2014 lsv???


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[Jrichard1987]

Nevermind sorry shoulda looked further in the thread before opening my mouth... Wishful thinking


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[jstenger]

They must feel having the ibs installed caused the tank to fail. I had check valves installed to prevent it from creating a vacuum but not between the ibs and hard tank. Maybe when the bag collapsed it sealed of path of flow to thru hull vent and caused tank to collapse. Can't see that happening but it's possible.


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv
How did they get yours out to see the leak?

[jstenger]

Ever since it started leaking I have to fill my right rear ballast full and left rear ballast only to half to level the boat off. Anyone else notice this problem?


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv
This may be why you are leaning.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd382/Joestenger/20151023_174635.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/Joestenger/media/20151023_174635.jpg.html)

If you look, there is a small wet spot in the center of the pic. That is where the lower right screw from the ballast/fuel tank divider goes. We only surf Goofy, and that is where all the leaking ballast water sits. It must have been working its way thru the hole. It has been slowly draining for over a week now. I plan to raise the tounge as high as I can to get all the water out. The leak has been getting slower as days go by. It ran out like an open faucet when I first removed the screw.

[Jrichard1987]

How did they get yours out to see the leak?

They didn't get the tank out even. Before they started work they wanted to confirm warranty coverage with skiers choice. You could be on to something about my boat leaning... I guess I'll find out if I end up pulling my tank. I really don't want to cut my floor to get that tank out... Gonna have to reinforce it after you install the new tank I'm guessing.


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[jstenger]

They didn't get the tank out even. Before they started work they wanted to confirm warranty coverage with skiers choice. You could be on to something about my boat leaning... I guess I'll find out if I end up pulling my tank. I really don't want to cut my floor to get that tank out... Gonna have to reinforce it after you install the new tank I'm guessing.


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv
Did they blame it on the check valves or the ibs?

[Jrichard1987]

Didn't get into discussion. Service manager just told me that skiers choice rejected warranty because of the fact that I had an ibs installed


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[CFD3Captain]

Didn't get into discussion. Service manager just told me that skiers choice rejected warranty because of the fact that I had an ibs installed


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

Was the IBS installed from the factory or even at the dealer for that matter? If so then that is a BS excuse in my opinion.

[Jrichard1987]

No I installed it... Put a check valve and vent on line to thru hull vent. Thinking it would be fine but must have sucked the ibs bag down hard enough it couldn't pass air through. From what I hear now I should have installed a vent also betwean ibs and hard tank. Worked for half the summer before it cracked so could have just been the tank failed but who knows. Might see when I pull it out.


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[jstenger]

Funny thing is that the factory uses no check/air admitance valves whatsoever. Yes, they add a second hose to the other leg, but they are still pulling air for the tank thru the bag. So I don't see how they could use the deflated ibs as a reason for tin canning the tank.

[Jrichard1987]

Funny thing is that the factory uses no check/air admitance valves whatsoever. Yes, they add a second hose to the other leg, but they are still pulling air for the tank thru the bag. So I don't see how they could use the deflated ibs as a reason for tin canning the tank.

And do they piggy back off of the factory tank vent line? If so they would have issues too I would say... Maybe I should discuss this more with them.


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[jstenger]

And do they piggy back off of the factory tank vent line? If so they would have issues too I would say... Maybe I should discuss this more with them.


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv
Yes, they piggy back off of the factory vent line. I am sure they got the idea from all of us.

[Jrichard1987]

Just talked to service manager he said they say it's not covered because there's no check valve installed betwean the hard tank and ibs causing excessive head pressure on centre tank. I disagree with that causing it to crack. Apparently they run a separate drain line for the ibs. Wish I could talk with someone in warranty from skiers choice and not the messenger at the dealer


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[jstenger]

Just talked to service manager he said they say it's not covered because there's no check valve installed betwean the hard tank and ibs causing excessive head pressure on centre tank. I disagree with that causing it to crack. Apparently they run a separate drain line for the ibs. Wish I could talk with someone in warranty from skiers choice and not the messenger at the dealer


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv
Your manager is wrong! If there were check valves, the water would never drain out of the ibs, into the tank, and out the pump. There is no sepparate drain line. Just two drain lines right into the tank.

[mjr119]

Why don't they post here? I mean I assume it is because they are afraid it will turn into a shit slinging fest. But didn't the CEO post on here when someone was talking about buying a new Craz? :confused:

[mjr119]

He was very quick to respond to that thread... :rolleyes:

[Jrichard1987]

I figured he didn't really know. That's why I would like to talk to warranty department at skiers.


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[Jrichard1987]

Jstenger you get that v drive out yet? Really curious to know how that goes for you.


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[jstenger]

Nope not yet. Hopefully soon.

[mmandley]

I think you guys need to understand, Warranty doesn't cover any aftermarket upgrades you do. Even if you do it exactly like the factory or not. Warranty is only going to be covered by a Dealer install, or Factory install. Even Dealer Installed items are not necessarily going to be covered by the factory.

I hate to be so blunt but,

You tried to save a buck by doing it yourself. You made a mistake, now you have to pay for your mistakes.

If the factory would have installed this and caused the issue your having they would step up and pay for it. I am positive because I have had things out of warranty still covered in good faith by the factory.

Case in point, in 14 when the Flow came out, people didn't want to pay the absorbent amount for the Flow to be installed by a dealer. They said well its only a few bolts and screws, I can save 1K by doing it myself. This is why the Factory was Explicit that if it wasn't installed by a dealer they would void you hull warranty and not cover any cracking or stress damaged caused by the Flow.

I had the dealer install mine because 1K is just not worth all the headache of something goes wrong on a 60K+ boat.
Same reason I had the dealer install my IBS and run a dedicated pump and lines. The extra 500 was worth knowing it would be a stand alone system and not cause issues with any other system. I learned my lesson of the headaches of piggybacking soft bags on my LSV. Sometimes you just have to dig a little deeper and pay for it to be done so its covered.

I am sorry if you don't want to hear this but its the way it is.

[Jrichard1987]

My dealer didn't even know what ibs was... Had no option other than install myself I woulda rather have them do it for same reasons you said but wasn't an option for me unfortunately. So I did it as best I believed would work and what others said worked for them.


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[rdlangston13]

My dealer didn't even know what ibs was... Had no option other than install myself I woulda rather have them do it for same reasons you said but wasn't an option for me unfortunately. So I did it as best I believed would work and what others said worked for them.


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

That's crazy that the dealer knows so little about their product that they don't know of an ibs, which is a factory installed option when you buy it with the surf package. Sometimes I wonder where they find these people from who sell these boats... SMH


Sent from my iPhone

[dusty2221]

I would be extremely upset if I approached the dealer for an upgrade that is offered at the factory and they offered no assistance or knowledge of said upgrade. Top it off with this disaster after following what was the assumed exact process used by the manufacturer...fuel, meet fire.

Now if a step was missed, a vent inappropriately placed, left out, etc., better stand in front of the mirror if any fingers are being pointed.

Best of luck with your repairs. Been watching this one closely, please keep it updated.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[Jrichard1987]

That was last fall when I talked to them about getting it installed. Although he still has no clue how their plumbed now


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[wolfeman131]

How many people have asked on this forum, "what's IBS stand for?" I bet I've answered that question at least 2 dz times this yr alone.

Dealer knowledge about a particular line/model is relative to what their focus is based on their market. If a dealership sells $5 million worth of boats in a yr and 5 of those boats are Moombas, do you really expect the salesperson to know the details of the ballast system?

[Jrichard1987]

How many people have asked on this forum, "what's IBS stand for?" I bet I've answered that question at least 2 dz times this yr alone.

Dealer knowledge about a particular line/model is relative to what their focus is based on their market. If a dealership sells $5 million worth of boats in a yr and 5 of those boats are Moombas, do you really expect the salesperson to know the details of the ballast system?

I meant the system as a whole. No clue you could install a ballast bag integrated to the centre tank like that or had any interest into looking into it for me. Not the term "ibs" itself


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[mjr119]

I think the MFG should just step up and warranty the tank replacement. OP used the same method as the factory to install it. So what if he did the work himself? Sorry to be so blunt, but I would say that the average person on this forum knows way more about Moomba boats than the average dealer... Some dealers are fckin stupid! and yes, if the dealership sells even 1 moomba a year they should be well versed on the product. Maybe not every salesman, but someone there should know these boats top to bottom! How can you have confidence in a dealership that doesn't know about their own products?


I am patiently waiting to hear the outcome of this situation.

[sivs1]

I think the MFG should just step up and warranty the tank replacement. OP used the same method as the factory to install it. So what if he did the work himself? Sorry to be so blunt, but I would say that the average person on this forum knows way more about Moomba boats than the average dealer... Some dealers are fckin stupid! and yes, if the dealership sells even 1 moomba a year they should be well versed on the product. Maybe not every salesman, but someone there should know these boats top to bottom! How can you have confidence in a dealership that doesn't know about their own products?


I am patiently waiting to hear the outcome of this situation.

well said, that's exactly what I was probing at above. I am sure this is not an isolated case.

[mmandley]

I think the MFG should just step up and warranty the tank replacement. OP used the same method as the factory to install it. So what if he did the work himself? Sorry to be so blunt, but I would say that the average person on this forum knows way more about Moomba boats than the average dealer... Some dealers are fckin stupid! and yes, if the dealership sells even 1 moomba a year they should be well versed on the product. Maybe not every salesman, but someone there should know these boats top to bottom! How can you have confidence in a dealership that doesn't know about their own products?


I am patiently waiting to hear the outcome of this situation.

I don't disagree with you on owners knowing more then some dealers. I know I learn a lot about upgrades before the dealer does. I have asked my dealer several times to fix something or update something and they look at me with wide lost eyes. I tell them what or how it should be done, they check with the factory and then do it.

But there is no way I am going to agree that any work I personally do on my boat should be covered by the factory. I am not a Dealer employee, I am not a factory employee, I didn't ask permission before I did said work if it was ok.

This is the exact same thing people who have Diesels <myself included> would cry to the dealer about when they modified the tuning and exhaust, intake of there truck and it blew a head gasket. They think well the engine has a factory warranty. Yes it does as in the engine has to be the way it left the factory. Not after you tune it up and run 50% more power through it. Even if the factory had tuning options, if you don't let them do it you assume the responsibility for any failures.

I'm sorry I just can't get behind you guys on this. I would be the first to call Tinker myself and ask him to help you out if I really thought you were getting the shaft here. I have done it in the past.

Now if this was a Dealer install, Factory install then heck yea I would be calling Tinker and saying hey friend, you need to get involved here. SC replacing even 1 guys tank under warranty is grounds that they have to replace everyone's.

Perspective, I run 3500 LBS of ballast in my boat to Surf, Well over the recommended weight limit on the boats sticker. If Marine Patrol gives me a ticket can i call them wrong? I blow my engine due to surfing with 2x the weight my boat is said to run, do I call BS on the Factory and make them replace my engine? I gawd for bid sink my boat with all this weight, do I cry when my insurance voids it and refuses to pay?

The point is when you Violate something set by the Factory, you run the risk of being left to take responsibility on your actions. Even if the Factory does the install part for part, the point is the Factory didn't do the work, and that makes them not liable.

[mmandley]

I think what we need to do here is help the rest of the owners.

Take lots of pictures, write a very detailed step by step process on how to install the IBS when you piggy back off the hard tank.

Now do the same for the repairs you are having to do.

Lets make this all a learning experience and help others from repeating the same problems.

[wolfeman131]

I think the MFG should just step up and warranty the tank replacement. OP used the same method as the factory to install it. .

See post #19.

A check valve was used which IS NOT how the factory installs the IBS.

The check valve is the issue. It creates too strong of a vacuum once the IBS is drained and crushes the tank at the seams. FYI, the tanks are purchased thru a 3rd party, so not really a SC design flaw.

[Jrichard1987]

See post #19.

Both OP and Jordan used a check valve which IS NOT haw the factory installs the IBS.

The check valve is the issue. It creates too strong of a vacuum once the IBS is drained and crushes the tank at the seams. FYI, the tanks are purchased thru a 3rd party, so not really a SC design flaw.

Yes I used a check valve. I used two. One to allow air/water out when filling and one to allow air in when draining. The reason my tank cracked I believe is because the ibs bag collapsed enough to not allow air to flow causing the tank to collapse. Not because of the check valves. If skiers plumbed it without a check valve betwean ibs and hard tank to allow air in when the ibs goes flat they will have the same problems. I'm not arguing to get warranty I know it's my mistake. And I know as soon as you mess with something yourself it's your deal. Now if they start having issues because they didn't install a check valve as I said then rightfully I'm no further in the wrong then them. But I still won't argue for warranty because it cracked because of what I did not the factory like stated above.


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[Jrichard1987]

I think what we need to do here is help the rest of the owners.

Take lots of pictures, write a very detailed step by step process on how to install the IBS when you piggy back off the hard tank.

Now do the same for the repairs you are having to do.

Lets make this all a learning experience and help others from repeating the same problems.

I totally agree. I'm in this position because I took info from this site and installed it myself. Seemed simple when we all were talking about it then and we all felt like we had our bases covered with the check valves. Oversight on my part not thinking the bag would collapse enough to not allow air through. Not trying to make enemies here or look like a bad guy just trying to figure out how I will get myself outa this mess and prevent any further issues!


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[Jrichard1987]

If anyone knows the way the factory and dealers are installing the ibs option on the lsv could you give a detailed description. No guessing please would like to know the facts or how to find out.


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[jstenger]

Hard tank has front and rear top vents. The front vent goes to one IBS fill/drain leg and the rear vent goes to the other IBS fill/drain leg. The vent on the IBS then goes to the thru hull on the side of the boat. NO check valves are used anywhere.

[Jrichard1987]

Probably what I will do when I replace my tank. But maybe put a check valve for vent betwean ibs bag and hard tank just to be safe.


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[jstenger]

Do not add any check valves, you do not need them.

[Jrichard1987]

Then I'm wrong in the thinkin of why my tank failed. Otherwise mine should be fine. I'm anxious to get mine out and see if it's collapsed.


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[Jrichard1987]

Only thing would be the check valve I have installed takes one psi or so to open and allow air in and by that time it's too late and flattened the bag enough to not allow air flow.... Maybe without valves it won't suck bag flat to cause the vacuum issue.


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[Jrichard1987]

Sorry if I'm driving anyone crazy on this haha


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[sivs1]

Let me throw a kink in this, first I do not have a hard tank, but when discussing draining, my bags never completely drain. My assumption is with the hard tank the IBS drains completely? I would think check valves WOULD be needed, based on my bags having air in them when full AND not draining completely.

Am I just barking up the wrong tree since my setup is totally different? What's considered standard on a 14 or 15? and does it make more since to pay the extra $$$$ to have the factory just add in everything?

[jstenger]

Bag or bag+bag requires a check valve (pre 2013). Tank or tank+bag does not require a check valve (2013+).

[Jrichard1987]

I beleive with both legs of ibs plumbed for drains like the factory does it would drain completely. My only worry would be if the bag did drain flat and vacuum from the pump ended up sucking it flat it would seal off to the thru hull vent and again collapse the hard tank. Which is what could have happened to mine. Reason why I would maybe install an air inlet check valve betwean bag and hard tank just in case the one time it does happen to seal flat.


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[mmandley]

Hows this idea.

Put the System back to Factory.
Put a T on the fill line of the IBS and run that to a Tsunami Aerator pump on a separate switch.
Add a T to the line going to your IBS Fill, then you also Add another Tsunami pump as a drain off this T on a switch run this to through hull with Check valve.

The way it works is, You hit Fill on the Hard Tank, this is now filling your hard tank, you hit Fill on IBS and this is pulling water from the Hard Tank Fill line being supplied from the Factory Pump. Yes it will take longer to fill but not much plus when your hard tank is full it pushes water out of the side of the boat so who cares.

Now your Hard Tank and IBS are filling separately.
To drain because your other T is on the fill leg between the fill pump and bag, the Drain pump will just drain the IBS.

Then you drain the Hard Tank separately with the factory pump.

This will cost about 150 bucks for 2 pumps, Ts, double switch.

Or you can go the route I went and install another Reversible Pump in the Bilge, with its own intake, home ran line to the IBS, switch on the dash this costs about $400


I am really scratching my head as to why if you are repairing the damaged tank you would attempt the same style install with no real insurance it wouldn't crush the tank again.

[Jrichard1987]

Good point... I just figured I would plumb it the way the factory does. But why not make it better if I'm in there anyways! I like the idea of running separate pump and switch for ibs faster fill times and less worry!


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[Jrichard1987]

Mmandley did you install another thru hull for you ibs vent line?


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[mmandley]

Yes I have 2 on front and 3 in the back.
Front 1 IBS
Front 1 Hard Tank
Rear 2 V bag one each side.
Rear 1 Bilge

Filling the boat it is factory for the V and Hard Tank then 1 new for the IBS.

You can piggy back as I explained but I would use the Tsunami pumps because they can run dry without any issues and with the IBS they only take 6-7 minutes to fill.

[kenn1282]

This is all very interesting to me. I purchased a 2015 mojo back in May. I had the dealer install an IBS as part of the purchase. A couple months later we were surfing and I noticed the bilge pump kept coming on. Neither of the rear bags leak so it is either coming from the IBS or the hard tank. I am concerned that it is the hard tank like others on here. I just used it the way it was all summer and told the dealership about it. They said they would check it out when it gets winterized. It is at the shop now and we will see what they find. Man I hope everything is ok. Y'all got me nervous but at least the dealer installed my IBS.

[jstenger]

And the story continues......off with the V-drive.

Removed cooling hoses, driveshaft bolts, and nuts holding the V-drive to the trans. Spread it a little to make sure it was loose.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd382/Joestenger/20151106_195021.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/Joestenger/media/20151106_195021.jpg.html)

Hooked a chainfall to an overhead truss, since I was told it was heavy. I am glad I did. It really aided in the removal. A half inch eyebolt threads right in the top.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd382/Joestenger/20151106_200302.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/Joestenger/media/20151106_200302.jpg.html)

And it's off!!!

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd382/Joestenger/20151106_203245.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/Joestenger/media/20151106_203245.jpg.html)

And sitting on the rear pad.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd382/Joestenger/20151106_203251.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/Joestenger/media/20151106_203251.jpg.html)

[jstenger]

Finally, the cracked tank is out. It measures 82" long.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd382/Joestenger/20151106_203841.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/Joestenger/media/20151106_203841.jpg.html)

Crack #1.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd382/Joestenger/20151106_204933.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/Joestenger/media/20151106_204933.jpg.html)

And crack #2.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd382/Joestenger/20151106_204954.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/Joestenger/media/20151106_204954.jpg.html)

[jstenger]

Remember post #100 where I showed the small wet spot. It has stopped but it is still leaking in another spot. The video below shows water coming up thru the subfloor under the center balast tank.

https://youtu.be/SSSD6KImpJY

[jstenger]

I was able to pop the plug out. I used a floor jack to raise the tounge of the trailer until the rear of the trailer touched the ground. I will let it stay like this until all the water stops.

https://youtu.be/Gdc4ZejDiHQ

[jstenger]

What upsets me is that I pulled the center drain after each day of boating. But, by design, there was still sitting water forward of the drain.

[Jrichard1987]

Well that would explain my issue with boat leaning. Is that all floatation foam in there? That can't be good constantly having that stuff soaked under there. What happens to the boats not heated year round when their full of water under there? Won't be letting mine freeze know it may be full of water that's for sure!


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[13mobiusLSV]

Well that would explain my issue with boat leaning. Is that all floatation foam in there? That can't be good constantly having that stuff soaked under there. What happens to the boats not heated year round when their full of water under there? Won't be letting mine freeze know it may be full of water that's for sure!


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

I would be curious to hear from all the LSV owners if their boat has a lean slightly to the port side. Mine has done it from day 1, and had my IBS installed by SC after my first summer of use. I rarely have to pull my center plug unless it's for self inflicted reasons. I just wouldn't be to quick to jump to the conclusion that if your boat leans that you are in the same unfortunate situation as Jstenger. I always just attributed it to all the batteries, amps, gear I had on that side.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[rdlangston13]

My 08 leans slightly but I think it has more to do with 3 batteries and 3 amps being over there more than it does saturated flotation foam


Sent from my iPhone

[Jrichard1987]

I would be curious to hear from all the LSV owners if their boat has a lean slightly to the port side. Mine has done it from day 1, and had my IBS installed by SC after my first summer of use. I rarely have to pull my center plug unless it's for self inflicted reasons. I just wouldn't be to quick to jump to the conclusion that if your boat leans that you are in the same unfortunate situation as Jstenger. I always just attributed it to all the batteries, amps, gear I had on that side.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

My boat always floated as far as I could tell perfectly level. I could fill all ballast and wakes would be nice on both sides. Since I had the issue with excess water in the bilge area it floats way off. No change in cargo ect. I have to keep one rear ballast bag below half and other full to level it out. I primarily wakeboard so if I can't use my ballast to its full extent what's the point. Again this was only after I started having an issue with the tank which is why I beleive I'm in the same boat as jstenger


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[Jrichard1987]

If it didn't affect the way the boat performed I wouldn't care but it severely does


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[Jrichard1987]

Remember post #100 where I showed the small wet spot. It has stopped but it is still leaking in another spot. The video below shows water coming up thru the subfloor under the center balast tank.

https://youtu.be/SSSD6KImpJY

I removed the screws that you had water leaking from at the beginning. No water came out and all looks good and dry under there should be OK.


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[jstenger]

I removed the screws that you had water leaking from at the beginning. No water came out and all looks good and dry under there should be OK.


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv
Are you working on the boat yourself? Did you get the fuel tank out?

[Jrichard1987]

Ya I'm doing it myself... Not convinced I wanna cut the floor though to remove the tank so I haven't started anything. Might just plumb my ibs into the center tank setup and bypass my hard tank altogethor for next summer. Then save up some cash to have the tank replaced by the dealer splitting the hull instead of cutting it out. Haven't removed the fuel tank I was able to loosen it and slide it back enough to get to the screws.


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[DOCDRS]

What if you just cut the tank?

[jstenger]

I personally would not cut the tank. The clearance is tight, and I think you would end up cutting the hull too. Plus you would have to make multiple cuts, like cutting a stick of butter, to get the whole thing out.
I would never split the hull either. Way too much involved. At least cut the lower lip of the floor to get most of the tank out. If you do not want to remove the V-drive, then wack the end of the tank off when it is in the open area. A bag will easily take the tank's place, but beware of the carpet snap screws that come thru. You will see them once the tank is out. Good luck.

[Jrichard1987]

Jstenger did you get your tank cost covered under warranty? How much is the tank worth?


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[Fastest1]

Take a piece of string, and put it under the tank. Grab both ends and pull back and forth with a sawing motion. It will cut right thru the plastic. It might take more than one piece of string of course. For those in doubt. Watch an irrigation crew. I can saw thru small pvc pipes instantly without bending over.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[kenn1282]

Well the word just came that my center ballast is cracked and leaking. They are waiting on the replacement to come in to swap them out. I don't know how they are going to do it yet but I will update as we go along. Sucks too but at least it was a dealer installed ibs system. They told us "never seen anything like this". Hopefully Moomba has a fix for this to keep it from happening again.

[Jrichard1987]

Well the word just came that my center ballast is cracked and leaking. They are waiting on the replacement to come in to swap them out. I don't know how they are going to do it yet but I will update as we go along. Sucks too but at least it was a dealer installed ibs system. They told us "never seen anything like this". Hopefully Moomba has a fix for this to keep it from happening again.

Keep us posted I'm anxious to know how a dealer will replace it to skiers approval.


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[Jrichard1987]

Any news on these tanks??


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[jstenger]

No, not yet.

[jstenger]

UPDATE

Well good news. My tank was covered under warranty. I was told something by my dealer that all should pay attention to. Skiers Choice says that if you add an IBS to a hard tanked Moomba you need to add the second fill/drain line to the port side like the factory does. The theory is that with only one fill/drain line, the bag could flatten to a point that restricts air to the hard tank when draining. This restriction could cause the tank to collapse and crack. By adding a second fill/drain line, this action is greatly reduced by giving air two routes to go.

[jstenger]

Remember the water I had under the floor. Well after a few months, I finally got all the water out. Almost four gallons under there! I removed the floor hatch and cleaned up the sloppy cut I made to get the tank out. Rounded and sanded all corners. I also sanded the bilge in preparation for the new epoxy plug and bilge coating.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd382/Joestenger/20160207_114034.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/Joestenger/media/20160207_114034.jpg.html)

Since this pic, I have filled in the hole with epoxy. Bilge coating goes on in a couple days.

[ghebert1111]

Skiers Choice says that if you add an IBS to a hard tanked Moomba you need to add the second fill/drain line to the port side like the factory does.

I don't understand from where and to where the second fill line would be connected. Do you put a T/Y connector in the line coming from the hard tank and run it to the port side of the IBS?

[jstenger]

I don't understand from where and to where the second fill line would be connected. Do you put a T/Y connector in the line coming from the hard tank and run it to the port side of the IBS?
I will post pics of mine next week, but here is what you need to do. The tank has two vents on the top. Each one under the black covers on the floor. Stock setup has a hose running from the front and tee'ed to the back. Then just a single hose running thru the floor and out the side of the boat. You can see the white tee in this pic.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd382/Joestenger/20151019_185138.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/Joestenger/media/20151019_185138.jpg.html)

To add the second fill/drain hose, simply replace the tee with a 1" elbow. The elbow will connect the long front to back hose directly to the original vent hose which is not shown in the pic. Remove the real short hose on the left, rotate that elbow 90 degrees to the left, and add the new fill/drain hose. You WILL have to drill a hole in the floor behind the observer seat. The hole will be to the left of the air intake vent. The new fill/drain hose will go thru where the battery cables come out, go under the floor, and up thru the new hole.

[ghebert1111]

You WILL have to drill a hole in the floor behind the observer seat.

You had me until I read that. I'm a bit scared of cutting into my boat. I couldn't find the thread on installing the spring loaded check valve inline with the fill line from the center tank to the IBS bag, but I'm leaning towards doing that.

[CFD3Captain]

Thanks for the information Joe! It appears I should (and will) do this come Spring. If anything just to be on the safe side. I am pretty sure I understood your description of what needs done (it will become more clear when I have the boat here to visually see what I'm working with) Only thing I am really not sure of at this point is where to drill the new hole for the hose. But as I said, should be easy to see once I get the boat home from storage. Come on Spring :)

[jstenger]

Thanks for the information Joe! It appears I should (and will) do this come Spring. If anything just to be on the safe side. I am pretty sure I understood your description of what needs done (it will become more clear when I have the boat here to visually see what I'm working with) Only thing I am really not sure of at this point is where to drill the new hole for the hose. But as I said, should be easy to see once I get the boat home from storage. Come on Spring :)
I will get a pic or two of my new hole next week.

[ghebert1111]

I will get a pic or two of my new hole next week.

Uhh... I'm not sure I want to see your new hole but thanks for offering.

[jstenger]

Ha Ha ..........

[kenn1282]

Just got my boat back yesterday. Tank was replaced under warranty. They said my tank was cracked along the seam where it was molded together? I also asked them about the vacuum that could be created when the ibs is drained to which they sort of scoffed and said I just got a bad tank ...nothing more. They didn't believe that a small pump like that could create enough of a vacuum to crush the tank. It kind of irritated me. I also would like to add a check valve just to be on the safe side! Anyone want to show us how to do that?

[ghebert1111]

Just got my boat back yesterday. Tank was replaced under warranty. They said my tank was cracked along the seam where it was molded together? I also asked them about the vacuum that could be created when the ibs is drained to which they sort of scoffed and said I just got a bad tank ...nothing more. They didn't believe that a small pump like that could create enough of a vacuum to crush the tank. It kind of irritated me. I also would like to add a check valve just to be on the safe side! Anyone want to show us how to do that?

There's a nice thread on the spring loaded check valve, that I thought I had saved. Maybe someone can post it. I searched and couldn't locate it.

[jstenger]

First off, we need to get everyone on the same page. You DO NOT add check valves to bag/hard tank combinations. You ONLY add check valves to bag alone combinations. You COULD, however, add an air admitance valve, on a tee, to the hose between the bag and the hard tank. OR, you could add a second fill/drain hose like the factory does. I HIGHLY recommend adding a second fill/drain hose before installing the air admitance valve. I do not believe any other manufacturers have air admitance valves in their factory installed piggy back systems.

[CFD3Captain]

I hate to say it, but there is a good deal of (for lack of better a better word) misinformation on this site concerning the check valve on IBS. When I was reading and researching like I do, I read a lot about this. We should look into a STICKY with some information about adding IBS and NOT adding a check valve. It could potentially save someone.

[ghebert1111]

I hate to say it, but there is a good deal of (for lack of better a better word) misinformation on this site concerning the check valve on IBS. When I was reading and researching like I do, I read a lot about this. We should look into a STICKY with some information about adding IBS and NOT adding a check valve. It could potentially save someone.

Good idea.

[ghebert1111]

To add the second fill/drain hose, simply replace the tee with a 1" elbow. The elbow will connect the long front to back hose directly to the original vent hose which is not shown in the pic. Remove the real short hose on the left, rotate that elbow 90 degrees to the left, and add the new fill/drain hose. You WILL have to drill a hole in the floor behind the observer seat. The hole will be to the left of the air intake vent. The new fill/drain hose will go thru where the battery cables come out, go under the floor, and up thru the new hole.

Joe, so when it comes out of that new hole, where does it go. I don't have vent on my port side to connect it to.

[jstenger]

Joe, so when it comes out of that new hole, where does it go. I don't have vent on my port side to connect it to.
It goes to the fill/drain hole on the port side leg of the IBS. You should have a fill/drain port on both legs of the IBS.

[ghebert1111]

It goes to the fill/drain hole on the port side leg of the IBS. You should have a fill/drain port on both legs of the IBS.

Ahhhh, got it. Not sure how that is going to allow air to pass through to the hard tank if the bag has pancaked.

[kenn1282]

Ahhhh, got it. Not sure how that is going to allow air to pass through to the hard tank if the bag has pancaked.

Me neither.

[Jrichard1987]

Just got my boat back yesterday. Tank was replaced under warranty. They said my tank was cracked along the seam where it was molded together? I also asked them about the vacuum that could be created when the ibs is drained to which they sort of scoffed and said I just got a bad tank ...nothing more. They didn't believe that a small pump like that could create enough of a vacuum to crush the tank. It kind of irritated me. I also would like to add a check valve just to be on the safe side! Anyone want to show us how to do that?

Do you know how they went about replacing the tank???


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[jstenger]

Do you know how they went about replacing the tank???


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv
No, they didn't say.

[Jrichard1987]

I would really like to find out how skiers approves replacing it before I decide how to do it... Hopefully someone knows


Jordan
2014 moomba möbius lsv

[rdlangston13]

Just got my boat back yesterday. Tank was replaced under warranty. They said my tank was cracked along the seam where it was molded together? I also asked them about the vacuum that could be created when the ibs is drained to which they sort of scoffed and said I just got a bad tank ...nothing more. They didn't believe that a small pump like that could create enough of a vacuum to crush the tank. It kind of irritated me. I also would like to add a check valve just to be on the safe side! Anyone want to show us how to do that?

I've seen 550 gallon stainless steel tote tanks crinkle up like Coke cans because someone drained it via 1/2" diaphragm pump with a hose without opening the vent on top.


Sent from my iPhone

[dusty2221]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160216/37e6c0292533bc124f708a1460ba64ec.jpg

[kenn1282]

No I don't know how they removed the old tank or how they got the new one in. They did say they had to remove the fuel tank and do a couple other things to get it in there. They were pretty vague but they said it wasn't too bad at all. At this point since I am still under warranty I am going to run it just like last summer. Part of me hopes it breaks again so that they will do something different to ensure it doesn't ever happen again. But the good news is that it can be fixed if it does happen. Also... If it happens again in the future, it was a mistake made by the dealer and I should be covered. Good luck to all of you.

[jstenger]

The Mojo ballast tank comes out with just the removal of the fuel tank. There is more room to work with than the LSV.

[jstenger]

Freshly painted bilge. I ended up using Dupli-Color Bed Armor in the spray can. I sanded everything and cleaned with a fiberglass cleaner/degreaser before painting.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd382/Joestenger/20160216_144550.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/Joestenger/media/20160216_144550.jpg.html)

Tank preped and ready to slide in. My boat will be out of warranty in a month, so I decided to add an IBS. As you can see, I removed the tee and added an elbow. I now have two fill/drain hoses just like the factory install.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd382/Joestenger/20160216_180034.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/Joestenger/media/20160216_180034.jpg.html)

I had to drill a 3" hole in the floor behind the observer seat for the second fill/drain hose. I removed the air intake hose to aid in measurements. There is a channel for hoses and wiring on the port side just like the starboard side. The hole on the left is the new hole. I used a plastic desk ring that I boought from Menards to dress up the hole.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd382/Joestenger/20160216_135130.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/Joestenger/media/20160216_135130.jpg.html)

Hole on the right shows the area where the tank goes. Hole on the left shows the channel. They are separated by a wall.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd382/Joestenger/20160216_135158.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/Joestenger/media/20160216_135158.jpg.html)

[ghebert1111]

Looking good. I pulled up my floor yesterday to check on access to the hoses, etc... and it seems pretty tight with the gas tank in there. Otherwise I'd do the second vent hose option as you suggest.

[jstenger]

Looking good. I pulled up my floor yesterday to check on access to the hoses, etc... and it seems pretty tight with the gas tank in there. Otherwise I'd do the second vent hose option as you suggest.

Syphon all the gas out and pull the tank. Only special tool needed was tool to remove fuel line which can be bought at any auto parts store.

[jstenger]

Tank is all secure and hoses are all connected.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd382/Joestenger/20160223_180835.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/Joestenger/media/20160223_180835.jpg.html)

[jstenger]

The V-drive is prepped and ready to go on, but there is an important step that needs to be taken before it is tightened up. It needs to be aligned since the V-drive will rotate about a degree or two on the tranny. The way to do it is with a feeler gauge. Snug up just the top nut, but don't tighten. Use a 0.002 feeler gauge between the V-drive flange and the drive shaft flange.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd382/Joestenger/20160224_152016.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/Joestenger/media/20160224_152016.jpg.html)

Check both sides.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd382/Joestenger/20160224_151919.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/Joestenger/media/20160224_151919.jpg.html)

If the V-drive is out of alignment, the gauge will slide in one side but not the other. Just nudge the V-drive back and forth till the gauge will not slide in anywhere. Once done, tighten all the nuts.

V-drive complete and drive shaft bolted up.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd382/Joestenger/20160224_165208.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/Joestenger/media/20160224_165208.jpg.html)

Ready for the fuel tank.

[jstenger]

Fuel tank is back in and all the hoses and wires are reconnected.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd382/Joestenger/20160228_100423.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/Joestenger/media/20160228_100423.jpg.html)

IBS is back in with newly installed second fill/drain hose.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd382/Joestenger/20160228_164610.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/Joestenger/media/20160228_164610.jpg.html)

Everything is complete. Cleaned the entire topside of the boat. Even with plastic covering as much as possible, fiberglass dust got everywhere. As soon as the ice melts and it warms up a bit, I will be out lake testing.

[jstenger]

I wanted to wait till the end to post this last pic. I believe I may have found part of the reason for my cracked/collapsed tank. These tanks are installed before the deck is attached to the hull. Since they are wedge shaped, they stick up higher as they are pushed forward. My old tank, which was collapsed, slid right out. But, when I put the new tank in, it got stuck before it was all the way in to where the original tank was. My new tank appears to be higher in the center. This high spot, which is in the same spot as the crack in the old tank, hits the floor if pushed in too far. I ended up installing the new tank about 2 inches shy of where the old tank was. I think the old tank was too tight, and the everyday walking on the floor was flexing it. I could be wrong, but what I found, makes sense. Look below, you can see the top of the tank touching the floor. I ended up sliding it back a little to give it some space.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd382/Joestenger/20160223_154155.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/Joestenger/media/20160223_154155.jpg.html)

[kaneboats]

It could be that simple. Good catch!