Reversible Pump Upgrade

[rdlangston13]

Ok so my wife bought me the reversible pump upgrade kit to replace the factory sprinkler valve set up in our 08 LSV. My plan is to use the three reversible pumps to fill the v drive locker bags and the integrated bow sack and keep the original pump set up for the ski locker bag. I was wondering if those of you who have done this can provide pictures of where you drilled the new thru hulls and where you mounted the pumps ect. Also any pointers would be much appreciated. I am going to put an order into wakemakers this week for some extra pieces that the kit did not come with so a coupon code would also be awesome. Thanks!


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[sivs1]

this will be a project I may tackle next year, following with interest.

Here is my IBS project from this year. Need to go in and update now that the vented loop is installed and the switch is wired into the pumps.

https://forum.moomba.com/showthread.php?25921-Thru-hull-for-IBS

[parrothd]

Search my username, I've got several threads with pics for the thru hulls, drivers side near the trans. Also switch locations, and installing the motors above the trans..

The link above is a aearator pump setup not a reversible..

[parrothd]

Order the oikler clamps for a factory looking install, get the one way vents and run the starboard vent to port and port to starboard and 1100 bags.. :p

[parrothd]

Switch location
https://forum.moomba.com/showthread.php?24101-Ballast-switches-install-location (https://forum.moomba.com/showthread.php?24101-Ballast-switches-install-location)

Old boat
https://forum.moomba.com/showthread.php?21891-New-Ballast-Reversible-Setup

[rdlangston13]

How hard was it installing the through hulls??? I'm scared in gonna drill a hole and then not be able to fit a wrench on them to get them tight


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[rdlangston13]

Switch location
https://forum.moomba.com/showthread.php?24101-Ballast-switches-install-location (https://forum.moomba.com/showthread.php?24101-Ballast-switches-install-location)

Old boat
https://forum.moomba.com/showthread.php?21891-New-Ballast-Reversible-Setup

Did you need to install any brass 90s coming off to the thru hulls for clearance?


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[parrothd]

It's not the tightness that keeps water out, the 5200 does, the bolt is there to hold the fitting while the 5200 dries. Don't over tighten, all you'll do is squeeze out all of the 5200.

I use a small drill bit and drill a small pilot hole from the inside where you want to intake to be.

I put the valves and thru holes together and position everything first to find the location for each one, making sure you can reach the shut off valves and that you can turn them off/on with all of then in place. Also leaving enough space to be able to reach the packing nut. Sometimes you have to bend a handle to work..

I think you only need to drill 2, just space them out, mark them. Drill a small pilot hole for each from the inside, then use a round hole saw bit from underneath.

Use a thick bead if 5200 around the base and then snug it up and let dry. Use some acetone to cleanup the excess on the bottom. I smear the excess around on the inside for extra protection..

[parrothd]

I have no new 90s, except for the original intake had one(I think). I have 4 total. There's videos on WakeMAKERS..

[parrothd]

Oh and I use a little pipe dope on the threads, then your don't have to worry about leaks.. ;)

[rdlangston13]

How do you get the ball valves tight on the thru hull without have the thru hull tight to the hull? Or does that 5200 stuff dry hard? And I'm adding three new thru hulls, one for each v-drive bag and one for the IBS. The original through hull is going to only operate the center 400 bag. Also what size wire did you run to the distribution block?


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[parrothd]

I let it cure, then use a pipe wrench to hold the thru hull and pipe dope.

Don't get me wrong, you want to get the thru hull tight. A large chisel or screw driver from underneath and a adjustable wrench. I use a pipe wrench to hold the thru hull in place and tighten the but from the inside since I'm helper less..

When it's wet no matter how tight you get it it'll move until it dries..

[parrothd]

I think 8 gauge, also you want the breaker fuses instead of regular fuses. They reset..

[parrothd]

https://forum.moomba.com/showthread.php?25789-Wiring-Wakemakers-Gravity-III-Upgrade-to-Factory-Switches

[rdlangston13]

I think 8 gauge, also you want the breaker fuses instead of regular fuses. They reset..

Where do you get these breaker fuses you speak of?


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[trayson]

One trick that's REALLY handy is to take the handle of the ball valve and cut it in about 1/2 so it can actuate either up or down. Just a 3" cutoff wheel is what I used.

Doing the thru hulls for reversible is easy. the aerators are way harder as you have to be able to twist a pump on it and still have everything aligned with the output of the pump.

Pro-tip from Berg: the handle of a large crescent wrench fits in the thru hull from the bottom and will hold it in place while you crank on the nut or the ball valve.

Also, if you're planning on using your factory pump for one of your existing bags, you're going to have to install a vented loop or the 1 aerator pump will most certainly fill passively. Remember, you're removing the sprinkler valve from the mix and that's what kept your system from filling. In fact, it still might passively fill while underway because you have the scupper intake for your OEM. You might give some thought to using the factory scupper intake for your smallest bag that's plumbed to the reversible. those pumps in theory won't let water in despite having the scupper intake. I have a reversible on mine.

[trayson]

Oh, another thought.

When I did my reversible pump, I got the two extra check valves and the TEE so that I could do the above water line draining. I really like to be able to watch and know when my pumps are done rather than have to open storage compartments or listen for the change in frequency as the pump gets finished. With 3 pumps if you have them all near each other, hearing when one is done and the other two are still going could be challenging.

I have separate thru-hulls for the vent and drain on my bags. I'm not shy about drilling holes and it's cheaper to buy another thru-hull than to buy a tee and another check valve to combine the vent with the empty.

http://www.wakemakers.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/reversible_pump_ballast_system_diagram.jpg

[rdlangston13]

I plan on leaving one sprinkler valve in the boat for the center bag to prevent exactly what you just described. Basically I'm going to have the factory gravity 1 set up plus three reversible pumps, one for each v drive bag and one for the IBS. The main thing I am curious about is where to mount the pumps. I saw Parrothd had his mounted above the transmission but his boat looks like an older model than mine. Also seems like a good idea to mount the impeller side of the pump towards the bottom to prevent a water leak falling on the actual electrical pump however this would make it more difficult to change impellers in a pinch


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[parrothd]

Same boat.. Just older pic

[trayson]

I plan on leaving one sprinkler valve in the boat for the center bag to prevent exactly what you just described. Basically I'm going to have the factory gravity 1 set up plus three reversible pumps, one for each v drive bag and one for the IBS. The main thing I am curious about is where to mount the pumps. I saw Parrothd had his mounted above the transmission but his boat looks like an older model than mine. Also seems like a good idea to mount the impeller side of the pump towards the bottom to prevent a water leak falling on the actual electrical pump however this would make it more difficult to change impellers in a pinch


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The instructions say: "however, it is
suggested that the pump head be down if
vertical mounting is desired."

If I was keeping the sprinkler valve setup as you described, I'd spend the money and get the Irritrol high flow sprinkler valve to eliminate/lessen that bottleneck.
https://www.dripdepot.com/product/54bd5c0d75eb5120e9950000?show_product=54bd5c4475eb 5120e7b30000&gdftrk=gdfV29213_a_7c2873_a_7c11696_a_7c2751&gclid=CjwKEAjws5CrBRD8ze702_2dyjYSJAAAJK9yvIMesf-01PI_Jf6I6QCg41F4jkKSiAc4DxM03-H8XxoCaavw_wcB

the 1" ones are pretty spendy, but the 3/4 are reasonable. Optimally it'd be great to swap out to 1" line and the high flow sprinkler valve for the gravity 1 retrofit... But the price jump on the 1" sprinkler valve might be a deterrent.

I used 3/4" hose for my reversible because I only have it filling a 400 bag most the time. so despite the fact that the reversible and the 3/4 are slower, it works out okay since it's a smaller bag.

[rdlangston13]

Yes, my ski locker bag is only a 400 where as all the reversible pumps are filling 650s so I figure that my normal sprinkler valve will be just fine


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[rdlangston13]

The local audio store wanted 3.50 a foot for 8 gauge wire. This seems crazy to me.


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[rdlangston13]

Same boat.. Just older pic

Did you run 8 gauge or 10 gauge wire to the distribution block?


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[parrothd]

http://www.offroaders.com/tech/12-volt-wire-gauge-amps.htm

Depends on the distance, think it only 10-15 feet from battery to under the helm. Don't forget the black wire..

[parrothd]

Try home depot.. I trip my 100amp main breaker with 4 reversible pumps and heater on, so probably better too go overkill if you plan to upgrade later.

[moombadaze]

David, I moved my reversible's from the rear of the locker to the inside wall that separates the locker from the motor, with that said I plan on moving them this winter, to big a pain in the ass when I had to replace the impellers, anyway im thinking about mounting them on the back side of the black board that is above the muffler. that board is easy to remove and the pumps will be out of the way and when the impellers need replaced again are easy to access when the board is removed it will lay on top of the motor and the pumps will be facing up-if that makes sense.

[rdlangston13]

David, I moved my reversible's from the rear of the locker to the inside wall that separates the locker from the motor, with that said I plan on moving them this winter, to big a pain in the ass when I had to replace the impellers, anyway im thinking about mounting them on the back side of the black board that is above the muffler. that board is easy to remove and the pumps will be out of the way and when the impellers need replaced again are easy to access when the board is removed it will lay on top of the motor and the pumps will be facing up-if that makes sense.

I thought about this location too, my main concern is distance from the thru hull. Is there any recommended distance to stay under from through hull to pump?


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[moombadaze]

David, that location should actually be a shorter hose run than the factory spot(starboard rear corner of the boat) was by a couple feet. all 3 thru hulls are on the drivers side of the V-drive.

like your plan--G1 system plus reversible's

[rdlangston13]

I think I found a good spot for my pumps. Two will be on the forward side of the v drive lockers screwed into the plastic just in front of where the folding v drive doors are and the other will be mounted to the spot above the transmission. I'll take pictures next time I work on it to help better explain. As for thru hulls I and going to do two on the port side on the tranny/vdrive and one on the starboard side


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[rdlangston13]

Quick question for those of you running bags under the seats in the cabin of the LSV, what size bags are these? They are not the stock long skinny 400s are they?


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[moombadaze]

Quick question for those of you running bags under the seats in the cabin of the LSV, what size bags are these? They are not the stock long skinny 400s are they?


Sent from my iPhone yes, thats the bag i repurposed for the port side, but you need to get ride of the cooler

[rdlangston13]

I don't care about port. We are all goofy


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[rdlangston13]

Any advice on where to add the three additional thru hulls? I found some blank space but I'm scared I won't be able to get a wrench on them to tighten them down. Also, what did everyone use to hold the bottom of the thru hull while tightening the nut on top??


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[rdlangston13]

Got the thru hulls drilled an all the new plumbing run today. My bilge is a very busy place now. I elected to put all there around the vdrive where the ball valves can be accessed through the v drive cover if need be. I used the magnet method to find where to drill. Placed a magnet inside the boat where I wanted the hole and used another magnet outside to find the one inside. Then mark the outside and drill. Seemed to work really well


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[rdlangston13]

So the 650s from the mojo completely full my lockers on the LSV. Not sure how you guys fit 750s or 1100s

Here are some pictures of my thru hull and pump mounting

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m523/rdlangston13/E4A1947B-812A-4297-8441-8D93554E8594_zpsh8eppjyc.jpg (http://s1130.photobucket.com/user/rdlangston13/media/E4A1947B-812A-4297-8441-8D93554E8594_zpsh8eppjyc.jpg.html)

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m523/rdlangston13/97453DDF-9DB7-49DE-83BE-89ED507BC0BC_zpsyyftyyro.jpg (http://s1130.photobucket.com/user/rdlangston13/media/97453DDF-9DB7-49DE-83BE-89ED507BC0BC_zpsyyftyyro.jpg.html)

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m523/rdlangston13/FB82CDEB-69E4-482C-B8E9-8177CD622903_zps4o3qcwym.jpg (http://s1130.photobucket.com/user/rdlangston13/media/FB82CDEB-69E4-482C-B8E9-8177CD622903_zps4o3qcwym.jpg.html)

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m523/rdlangston13/D93A4CC5-B842-4CD3-A3B3-478B7DD06760_zpsbxp82i84.jpg (http://s1130.photobucket.com/user/rdlangston13/media/D93A4CC5-B842-4CD3-A3B3-478B7DD06760_zpsbxp82i84.jpg.html)





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[rdlangston13]

The other pumps

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m523/rdlangston13/7EC7B15E-825A-4CF9-9B51-13D3E9D0B23E_zpsatf0jp1c.jpg (http://s1130.photobucket.com/user/rdlangston13/media/7EC7B15E-825A-4CF9-9B51-13D3E9D0B23E_zpsatf0jp1c.jpg.html)

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m523/rdlangston13/B8B6879F-451F-4611-9544-ECB3E073242F_zpsdzrvei6h.jpg (http://s1130.photobucket.com/user/rdlangston13/media/B8B6879F-451F-4611-9544-ECB3E073242F_zpsdzrvei6h.jpg.html)


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[996scott]

Ok, here is how I did mine which seems to be similar to most. I completely removed the old ballast system with the sprinkler valves. I drilled two new holes in the hull, one on each side. So on the passengers side i have the original thru hull for the engine and then drilled one more closer to the front. On the drivers side I kept the original thru hull that went to old ballast and drilled another hole closer to the front. So I now have 2 thru hulls on each side. Things are a little tight working in there but not too bad. Enough room for wrenches and other tools. As for tightening the thru hulls I think I just used a large flat head screw driver and put it in the groove of the mushroom from under the boat while my son used a pipe wrench to tighten from the inside, if that makes sense.

The pumps I did the same as a lot of people. One right behind the back seat wall, one of the left and one on the right walls of the engine.

[rdlangston13]

Yeah you put your pumps in the exact same location as me. I just added three new thru hulls so now I have a pump on every bag. Leaving the gravity 3 pump and such in there made spacing very tight. I am praying for no leaks


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[trayson]

Any advice on where to add the three additional thru hulls? I found some blank space but I'm scared I won't be able to get a wrench on them to tighten them down. Also, what did everyone use to hold the bottom of the thru hull while tightening the nut on top??


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I already told you the answer to that one:


Pro-tip from Berg: the handle of a large crescent wrench fits in the thru hull from the bottom and will hold it in place while you crank on the nut or the ball valve.



Honestly, if I was to do mine over again, I would have bought a crow foot wrench for the thru hull nuts. But really you only need to get them so tight, then the 5200 does the rest.

That said, you think yours is tight? Try doing 3 new thru hulls with ball valves and then having aerator pumps on top of them and make sure you get things oriented right for the output port of the pump and enough clearance to spin the pumps on. Reversibles are easy in comparison.

[rdlangston13]

I used the 3M 4200 that was recommend on the wake makers how too video. Apparently 4200 can come off if you need it to but the 5200 is a done deal.


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[rdlangston13]

Ok just finished my initial sea trials. New fill/drain time is 7.5 min (14+ min previously). And this is with 500 lbs more ballast. No leaks at my thru hulls and having 4 bags at the touch of a switch is awesome!


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[trayson]

What size rear bags?

[rdlangston13]

650 lb


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[parrothd]

Now you can upgrade to 2 1100lbs bags..

[rdlangston13]

The 650s are upgrades and the pretty much fill the entire lockers. Not sure how much more we would benefit from an 1100 and I don't want to have to reinforce the vdrive walls


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[parrothd]

The 1100 fit perfect, once you start surfing you'll be swapping those out pretty quick..

:cool:

[kaneboats]

I have a 750 on my surf side and I really don't see how you could get much more in there. 900 maybe? But an 1100 would not fill all the way if you ask me. Not sure if there has been any testing done. I think with your crew properly distributed you can surf all you want (which is not that much anyway) and have some nice wave with what you have. I would look at Mmandley's notes for your goofy surf wave tho to begin to dial it in. Have fun with it. Glad you got it done all how you want it.

[rdlangston13]

I have a quick question regarding the pump sound. I thought the pumps got louder or something when the bags finished draining??? I have no change in sound at all.


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[kaneboats]

Might have something to do with your signature: Exile SX65c's, Exile XM9s, Exile XI12D, Exile Harpoon, Exile SM600.1 , Exile Xi800.4.

Ha ha.

[rdlangston13]

Ha! I notice that as you turn more of the pumps on they slow down. That I can hear.


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[moombadaze]

I have a quick question regarding the pump sound. I thought the pumps got louder or something when the bags finished draining??? I have no change in sound at all.


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David, I get a gurgling/bubbling sound when mine run empty -mine empty out the thru hull, other than that I never noticed a change in sound from the actual pump

[gregski]

Ha! I notice that as you turn more of the pumps on they slow down. That I can hear.
If you watch your volt meter, you'll notice that the alternator doesn't generate enough current at idle to keep the voltage at 14V when you run multiple pumps. I prefer to run the pumps while I'm slowly cruising away from the dock, otherwise I usually bump the throttle up a bit while in neutral (maybe 1250 rpm? I don't remember) and this will keep the voltage up. It's not critical, but the pumps are faster at the higher voltage and that's the change in sound you hear.

The pumps definitely change sound when the bags are empty, they speed up quite a bit.

[trayson]

I only have one reversible, but I can definitely hear the change in pump sound when it's empty. But I also spent the small amount of extra money to get the 2 check valves and the Tee for the above water line draining. I really like the visual.

[mmandley]

Dave saw your picture about your 650's filling the V drive completely.

IDK whats up with your bags, full of air? Stretched out? IDK but I can tell you for a fact, I ran 400, then 750, and then 1100 in my V lockers.

My 750s left room on top and my 1100 was the only ones that filled my lockers completely like yours.

[rdlangston13]

They are not full of air. I had all the air sucked out with a shop vac lol.


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[parrothd]

Why would you do that?

[rdlangston13]

I put check valves in the vents and just wanted to start off with a completely empty bag


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[mmandley]

I'm just saying Dave, Idk how do many people have 750, 1100 in their boat but yet your boat is the only one that is completely full on a 650.

Good side is you got full lockers of ballast no matter the size.

[moombahighrider]

I'm just saying Dave, Idk how do many people have 750, 1100 in their boat but yet your boat is the only one that is completely full on a 650.

Good side is you got full lockers of ballast no matter the size.

☝️That's funny but I agree. I have an 2008 lsv and run 1100's in the rear lockers. I tried 750's but it wasn't enough / didn't fill the locker and had to upgrade. Dave, I'll sell you my 750's that I still have, I have no use for them. The 1100's fill the locker just right...

[rdlangston13]

I think I am just fine with my oversized 650s haha


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