So this is harder than we thought it was going to be......

[gpd005]

So we purchased an 09 XLV over the winter and have been wanting to surf, this seemed like the best boat in our price range so this weekend was our first attempt at trying it. I have a Obrien board (I've never surfed in my life) and from what I'm gathering it is more of a skim board. We filled up the port side rear full 1100# and then the center locker full 1100# and just a little weight in starboard rear. Messed with the wake plate a little to find what looked like the best wave and went out there and I can't get it to work for the life of me. I'm not sure if I need a different board to learn on or what the case is but it doesn't feel like the wave is strong enough to actually push me along. I can't even get any slack in the rope? So my question is do I need a different board, different set up, or do I just need someone who has done this before to teach me what I'm doing wrong?

Thanks for any input. I know there are surf gate's and other things you can do to make it better but at this point we just want to see if it's something we want to do or not.

[wolfeman131]

need to know size of board and size of rider

that is a big boat and she likes a lot of weight to get a good surf wave. search posts from jmvotto and boonejeepin for more tips on setting up the boat.

[sivs1]

If you have a video post it up, could be useful. What Obrien board are you using? Main thing to remember, your feet are the gas and the brake, front pressure means gas and go forward towards the back of the boat, back foot is the brake, will slow you down, you may be riding with to much back pressure.

[kaneboats]

Being a skier all my life it was very hard for me to learn to stand down on my front foot to accelerate. I'll bet that is the problem. Let's see some video.

[gpd005]

If you have a video post it up, could be useful. What Obrien board are you using? Main thing to remember, your feet are the gas and the brake, front pressure means gas and go forward towards the back of the boat, back foot is the brake, will slow you down, you may be riding with to much back pressure.

Good info! Thanks!

I didn't even think to take a video but I will do that next time. I'm about 6 foot and 220#, my wife on the other hand is about 120# soaking wet and has no experience riding anything other than a wakeboard for about 20 feet and that's all she ever wanted to do. But she can lay on the sunpad like it's her job! LOL

[kaneboats]

Add your location to your info. Maybe we can find you some help.

[gpd005]

Sorry about that, it's Central Indiana home of the 60 degree water this time of the year!

[muehlcj]

Sorry about that, it's Central Indiana home of the 60 degree water this time of the year!

Try 13mobiusLSV - Nick is in Indiana as well he might be able to provide some instruction.

[mjr119]

When people around me have first learned to surf, Ive noticed that they tend to ride on their heels and try to cut out away from the wake (typical of a beginner wakeboarder too), which will slow you down. You have you ride more on your toes. And like sivs1 said, your front foot is the accelerator, put more weight on your front foot until you can feel yourself catching the boat and the rope will go slack.

The upper body position is also evident with a beginner. A beginner will open up their chest to the boat which I believe causes you to turn down the wake on your heels, again slowing you down. Try to keep your shoulders parallel with the wake/boat and reach "over your toes."

[xBabyJesus]

You need more weight.

We were doing the shakedown run last night, and with 1180 front bag and 1100 rear (port) bag, I couldn't get enough push to do anything. Put another 1100 on the floor and suddenly the wave was back to normal. I could stand to run another couple hundred under the seats but I don't want to mess with my plumbing. Don't put anything in the opposite side bag for the XLV. These bigger boats like WEIGHT. A local pro rider runs 4k in his boat of similar size.

[mjr119]

I think it's more about technique. Post a video and we will know for sure!

I surfed a lot behind my old 2000 Centurion Eclipse v drive with only 4 people in it moved to the starboard side and no ballast! It threw a nice wake with a long pocket. Not terribly tall, but it pushed plenty. Better than a friends Malibu with like 2500 lbs plus people.

[parrothd]

I tell my beginners surfing is like standing in the middle of a teeter totter. The objective is not to allow either end of it to touch the ground. We're talking about very slight changes weight forward or backwards even in ounces, not pounds. Putting slightly more pressure on your front foot causes you go towards the boat, too much and you pearl, board dives under water(teeter totter end hits the ground). Putting slightly more weight on your rear foot causes you to move away from the boat. Think about how little of a shift will effect the teeter totter moving up/down.

I have people get up on the board, move over to the meaty part of the wave, then slowly move both feet forward (keeping equal weight on each foot, standing normally, knees bent slightly) on the board until you start moving towards the boat. Once you find this spot then lean back just a tad, this cause the board to move away from the boat, the perfect spot is you leaning slightly back and the board staying put. The rope should be lose and dangling and your rear leg muscles will start to burn!

This is your safety point, when you start to lose the wave just stand up normally this causes you to shift your weight forward slightly and help recover. Practice keeping the rope lose, there's a learning curve, to much to little, etc, etc. Also use the rear platform as reference, your board tip should be 2-3 feet from the corner this will help you stay in the pocket, just lean forward/back to keep you in that range.

Once you get comfortable and want to drop the rope, simply drop it to the side of the wake, REMEMBER however that rope has weight. When you drop it your shifting a lot of weight towards your rear foot. So when finding your safety stance make sure you're putting a lot of weight on your back foot to keep you from running into the boat, when you let go of the rope stand more neutral and it'll help you stay on the wave.

You also need to get into a rhythm, you need to cycle between going forward and backwards, often people freeze and lock up. You need to hit a little forward, then a little back and repeat, this will help you stay in the pocket.

Remember teeter totter, small changes in shifting weight, you need to cycle back and forth, use the platform as a reference.

Once you get the feeling of it, you don't need to stand so far forward, you can push down on your front foot instead...



Generally o

[jmvotto]

The xlv like weight, we have 1100 in rear, plus 150 under rear port seat , 1180 in the basement no offside weight. runs good at 10.5 to 11 mph with wp 3/4 up

We have added a 659 ibs on top of seats and a 750 on surf side and it only gets better.
What board are you riding. Surfing combines all three , board size , wave and technique

[13mobiusLSV]

Sorry about that, it's Central Indiana home of the 60 degree water this time of the year!

I'm south side Indy. Shoot me a PM. And water was upper 60's yesterday, felt great. Would be happy to help any way I can.

[gregski]

Ignore the posts that simply say "more weight". 1100 in the rear and locker is plenty to get started. You may want more but it won't limit you from learning to ride ropeless. parrothd has some good tips. It does take time to get the feeling. It's not something that you're just going to get on your first time out and you'll probably feel like it's a bit hopeless just before you get it.

60 degree water? I wish. I'm still dreaming of 50 degree water.

[kaneboats]

I tell my beginners surfing is like standing in the middle of a teeter totter. The objective is not to allow either end of it to touch the ground. We're talking about very slight changes weight forward or backwards even in ounces, not pounds.

This is an excellent analogy that will let them visualize the concept. It perfectly emphasizes the subtlety of the movement required to change the attitude of the board for the desired response. Great stuff!

[jmvotto]

Ignore the posts that simply say "more weight". 1100 in the rear and locker is plenty to get started. You may want more but it won't limit you from learning to ride ropeless. parrothd has some good tips. It does take time to get the feeling. It's not something that you're just going to get on your first time out and you'll probably feel like it's a bit hopeless just before you get it.

60 degree water? I wish. I'm still dreaming of 50 degree water.

I agree you have more than enough weight to get started, could be speed, wake plate, too small of a board and technique has a ton to do with it.

[gpd005]

I tell my beginners surfing is like standing in the middle of a teeter totter. The objective is not to allow either end of it to touch the ground. We're talking about very slight changes weight forward or backwards even in ounces, not pounds. Putting slightly more pressure on your front foot causes you go towards the boat, too much and you pearl, board dives under water(teeter totter end hits the ground). Putting slightly more weight on your rear foot causes you to move away from the boat. Think about how little of a shift will effect the teeter totter moving up/down.

I have people get up on the board, move over to the meaty part of the wave, then slowly move both feet forward (keeping equal weight on each foot, standing normally, knees bent slightly) on the board until you start moving towards the boat. Once you find this spot then lean back just a tad, this cause the board to move away from the boat, the perfect spot is you leaning slightly back and the board staying put. The rope should be lose and dangling and your rear leg muscles will start to burn!

This is your safety point, when you start to lose the wave just stand up normally this causes you to shift your weight forward slightly and help recover. Practice keeping the rope lose, there's a learning curve, to much to little, etc, etc. Also use the rear platform as reference, your board tip should be 2-3 feet from the corner this will help you stay in the pocket, just lean forward/back to keep you in that range.

Once you get comfortable and want to drop the rope, simply drop it to the side of the wake, REMEMBER however that rope has weight. When you drop it your shifting a lot of weight towards your rear foot. So when finding your safety stance make sure you're putting a lot of weight on your back foot to keep you from running into the boat, when you let go of the rope stand more neutral and it'll help you stay on the wave.

You also need to get into a rhythm, you need to cycle between going forward and backwards, often people freeze and lock up. You need to hit a little forward, then a little back and repeat, this will help you stay in the pocket.

Remember teeter totter, small changes in shifting weight, you need to cycle back and forth, use the platform as a reference.

Once you get the feeling of it, you don't need to stand so far forward, you can push down on your front foot instead...



Generally o


Awesome post! Thank you very much!


The board I have is a Obrien Alias 5.0. I'm 220# and I don't have a problem getting a different board but we have a lot of new people on the boat so I'd like it to be something that everyone can learn on.

[parrothd]

Also remember the more you shift your weight one direction the quicker you need to switch the weight opposite to keep the teeter totter level...

[mjr119]

Start with e biggest board possible. I learned on a 5'8" or so Ronix. Then really perfected surfing on a 6ft real ocean surfboard. I've had a few smaller boards and now I ride a Byerly Buzz with the middle fin removed.

What's your fin set up? Too many fins will slow the board down a lot.

[gpd005]

Start with e biggest board possible. I learned on a 5'8" or so Ronix. Then really perfected surfing on a 6ft real ocean surfboard. I've had a few smaller boards and now I ride a Byerly Buzz with the middle fin removed.

What's your fin set up? Too many fins will slow the board down a lot.

Just one fin in the center is all it has on it.

[jmvotto]

you should be fine on the Obrien alias board 5.0 I learned to surf on that and I weighed about 225 at the time. it takes time to learn the acceleration and deceleration on the board first. trying to ride with slack is the best route to get you comfy in the wave.

[trayson]

Awesome post! Thank you very much!


The board I have is a Obrien Alias 5.0. I'm 220# and I don't have a problem getting a different board but we have a lot of new people on the boat so I'd like it to be something that everyone can learn on.

I've ridden that board and it's actually a squirrely one. (of course, I was a lot more of a newb when I rode it so take that with a grain of salt). I wouldn't call it my favorite beginner board, but it might do.

That said, I'll tell you what is working quite well for my XLV as far as weight. I'm actually pretty happy with the following:

1100 surfside rear
1180 gravity bag in the playpen
non-surfside rear about 1/2 full
Stock 400 rear bag put under the surfside seats, between the cooler cutout and the batteries
2 to 3+ adults surfside
speed about 10mph
wakeplate anywhere from 1/4 to 3/4 down to lengthen out the wave


The key for me to get push on my XLV was putting some weight in that non-surfside bag. I couldn't get the push I needed until I did that. I will say that if I don't have a few people to sit on the surfside (like when it's just my wife driving with my 55 pound son on the surfside, that with the above setup it's not clean and I'm getting wash at the top--so that extra couple people on the surfside really helps.

However, even with the setup above (about 3k in ballast), I'm running the acme 537 prop and have the 340 engine and have no issues with the boat's performance.

[trayson]

Here's a couple pics of how the wave was looking with the setup described above. Not the best pics, but should give you an idea:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-P6Zv2H0TDOY/VVtl2G-DZnI/AAAAAAAAY7E/pkFMsfKHDhY/s800/34EDE865-118D-4E60-B9A3-D66CBD2DED89.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-f5waYlhjzlc/VVtl2BpIH7I/AAAAAAAAY7E/Wiv2CVvUTjI/s800/E0362167-B24A-457C-AA52-B0801F5AE7DA.JPG

And a quick vid that will probably give a better visual of the wave I'm getting...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wf8Jvjn3qZs

[mjr119]

Nice wake.

[Poison]

Trayson, do you also have an 1100 in the non-surf side? (Trying to figure out how much half full is). I have a the 07 XLV which is basically the same hull so I'm going to try your setup. Also, how do you fill the bag under the seat? Do you just use a hand-held 12v pump or is it plumbed for that?

[trayson]

Trayson, do you also have an 1100 in the non-surf side? (Trying to figure out how much half full is). I have a the 07 XLV which is basically the same hull so I'm going to try your setup. Also, how do you fill the bag under the seat? Do you just use a hand-held 12v pump or is it plumbed for that?

I do have an 1100 on the non-surf side. I tend to keep a few things in that locker--a slalom ski, a couple neoprene life vests, and exile bouy balls. My non-scientific assessment of how full it was Sunday was that I was able to have a few vests, the ski, and an inflated bouy ball on top of the ballast bag and still close the lid that had a wakeboard rope in the bungee net on the backside of the lid. So that's my guess for "half full". haha.

I don't think it needs to be super exact, so just eyeball it, maybe even play around with it.


As far as the 400 that I put under the seats, the first time I did it, I filled it with an over the side pump. The bag has two ports on one side and 1 port on the other. I filled from a top port on one end, and used the top port on the other end to vent air. Of course I spilled some water detaching and reattaching the pump to the bag. But it was a test run. After I determined that I liked the setup, I spend a couple hundred and added a reversible pump for that bag. I'd already overahauled my ballast system adding 3 new mushroom thru hulls for my other 3 bags, so that left the factory 3/4" scupper thru-hull that I used for the reversible. I also have a tee and plastic ball valve and the other leftover 400 bag under the surfside bow seat, but I haven't really been using that much. Maybe it'd lengthen out the wave??? I don't know. There's always plenty of experimentation to do. Since I had the extra 400, I figured I might as well throw it up in the bow whether I use it or not as it's able to fill/empty off the same reversible.

You could most certainly get the same benefit from having a 400 on top of the surfside seats, but I hate exposed bags so that's why I went underseat for that one.

[xBabyJesus]

Ignore the posts that simply say "more weight". 1100 in the rear and locker is plenty to get started. You may want more but it won't limit you from learning to ride ropeless.

I think it's funny you say this when I JUST TESTED THIS a few days ago, and I could barely keep up with the boat with that weight, with experience and on much faster boards. You're running an LSV, it's not the same as the XLV especially when it comes to weight. All the XLV owners in this thread so far are running more weight than this. If he throws his factory 450s on the floor and/or surfside, that wave will come alive.

Technique is important, but getting the boat set up right is important too.

[trayson]

I think it's funny you say this when I JUST TESTED THIS a few days ago, and I could barely keep up with the boat with that weight, with experience and on much faster boards. You're running an LSV, it's not the same as the XLV especially when it comes to weight. All the XLV owners in this thread so far are running more weight than this. If he throws his factory 450s on the floor and/or surfside, that wave will come alive.

Technique is important, but getting the boat set up right is important too.

agreed. it's always:

Skill/Experience
Board
Wave (boat & weight)


When I first got the XLV I had 1100 surfside rear & 650 playpen. I had a bugger of a time riding it with a small crew. It was frustrating. Yes, the 400 on the rear surfside seat helped a ton.

I'm honestly pretty happy with how I've got mine setup right now. Yes, my wave could absolutely be longer, but it's 'long enough' to rip on and it's got all the push you'd ever need with no bags on the seats/floor. In fact, we've been dropping the wakeplate more and more to get a little more length and a smidge less height. Bumped the speed to 10mph from our previous 9.5 also.

I have a ghetto gate and am not really interested in using it because the wife HATES not being able to turn left against the gate and it makes the performance getting out of the hole pathetic (even with the Acme 537 on the 340 engine). so my ghetto gate was a 1 day experiment so far... I'll probably cut it down to size a bit (it's freaking huge) and might play with it down the road. But the wave's enough to keep me satisfied for now.

[xBabyJesus]

Rather than use the wake plate, I leave mine at 25% and just bring the speed up more for longer pocket. I've had good luck 11.2-11.5mph.

Are you running a bag on the bow seats in addition to the 1180 ski locker bag? I was thinking about trying that after I plumb in the 450's under the seats.

[gregski]

I think it's funny you say this when I JUST TESTED THIS a few days ago, and I could barely keep up with the boat with that weight, with experience and on much faster boards. You're running an LSV, it's not the same as the XLV especially when it comes to weight. All the XLV owners in this thread so far are running more weight than this. If he throws his factory 450s on the floor and/or surfside, that wave will come alive.

Technique is important, but getting the boat set up right is important too.
Read the first post. He isn't asking for the best wave possible. He just wants to get started. jmvotto runs with that weight (plus a 150# sack but I think that's in the range of "close enough" (just invite an extra rider); he goes on to say it gets better with more weight but his point is that 1100's in the rear and locker is good enough.

I know the LSV is different but for comparison: We learned to surf with the stock 400# pound bags in the rear and center. (and I'm about 200# on a slightly small for me board). It was fine for learning, it was a bit challenging for me but reasonable. Once I thought I "got it", I blamed the small wave on my inability to constantly surf ropeless but once I got better, that wasn't the case. We now have 1100 pound bags in the rear and an IBS. It is much better but that doesn't mean the much smaller ballast setup didn't work.

[trayson]

Rather than use the wake plate, I leave mine at 25% and just bring the speed up more for longer pocket. I've had good luck 11.2-11.5mph.

Are you running a bag on the bow seats in addition to the 1180 ski locker bag? I was thinking about trying that after I plumb in the 450's under the seats.

We can try to play with that some. Actually, I should install my Tantrum Wireless PP remote control so I can play with the speed from behind the boat! I yanked that out of my supra before I sold it and have it sitting in a box in my garage.

I do have the ability to add weight to the surfside bow. when I added the 400 under the surfside seats, I likewise added another stock 400 (obviously that can't fill all the way) under the surfside bow seat that can fill back to the front part of the battery boxes. I have a reversible pump that is plumbed to the underseat surfside 400 bag, but there's a tee and another ball valve that I can use the fill that bow surfside off the same reversible.

I've found that if I want to use that surfside bow sack, I just need to do it first because it's harder to get to the ball valve for the other bag after it's full.

[trayson]

Read the first post. He isn't asking for the best wave possible. He just wants to get started. jmvotto runs with that weight (plus a 150# sack but I think that's in the range of "close enough" (just invite an extra rider); he goes on to say it gets better with more weight but his point is that 1100's in the rear and locker is good enough.

I know the LSV is different but for comparison: We learned to surf with the stock 400# pound bags in the rear and center. (and I'm about 200# on a slightly small for me board). It was fine for learning, it was a bit challenging for me but reasonable. Once I thought I "got it", I blamed the small wave on my inability to constantly surf ropeless but once I got better, that wasn't the case. We now have 1100 pound bags in the rear and an IBS. It is much better but that doesn't mean the much smaller ballast setup didn't work.

I didn't have that experience. I was pretty frustrated with figuring out my XLV with only the 1100 surfside rear and the 650 playpen. When it was just my wife driving with my 55 pound son spotting, it was really hard to freeride. And I have a great fast board and plenty of experience.

Maybe if I would have tried just the 1100 it could have been better than the 1100/650? Maybe it would have been better with 1100/650 and then some offside rear locker weight? Not sure. I'm still dialing everything in and getting closer and closer to nailing it. But I've made huge strides. For me the offside weight made all the difference in getting that push I didn't have.


When I first got the XLV I had 1100 surfside rear & 650 playpen. I had a bugger of a time riding it with a small crew. It was frustrating. Yes, the 400 on the rear surfside seat helped a ton.

[mjr119]

This is the wake behind my old 2000 centurion eclipse v drive. NO BALLAST. With 5 people in the boat. It's all about experimentation. Find what works for YOUR boat.

22089


Note that only the goofy surf wake was this good. Luckily I am goofy footed!

[trayson]

This is the wake behind my old 2000 centurion eclipse v drive. NO BALLAST. With 5 people in the boat. It's all about experimentation. Find what works for YOUR boat.

22089


Note that only the goofy surf wake was this good. Luckily I am goofy footed!

It's a good thing that VAP'n was invented. no smoking on my boat! haha.

[mjr119]

Yeah I dont allow it on my boat anymore. I was slightly more dumb than I am now 2 years ago when I had the centurion. The boat got trashed! Now everyone calls me the boat nazi because I am so strict and always fuss at people about stepping in the seats and laying boards on the upholstery.

For instance, yesterday my future brother in law had sunflower seeds on the boat.... I knew immediately that they would end up going everywhere, and yep I was correct, unfortunately. He went to pour some in his mouth while in the bow at wakeboard speeds and about half of the bag ended up flying back into the main part of the boat. Why are people so ignorant?????!?!?!?!??!