Center Ballast Not Filling or Emptying

[mjr119]

The center bag in my 03 LSV Gravity Games is not filling up or emptying. When I flip the port and starboard switches on/off, I can hear the pumps running.

When I flip the center switch on/off I hear NOTHING! Doesnt all 3 bags share the same fill pump?

Any ideas on where to start?

Thanks, all!

[trayson]

yes, the three share the same FILL pump. But each bag has its own empty pump. Are you hearing the empty pump run when you switch it to empty?

You can certainly use a test light to figure out if you're getting current to each of the pumps. you can use a test light to find out if you're getting current to your sprinkler valves on the fill side. I'd probably start there. On the fill side, there are deustch plugs for each of the sprinkler valves and another one for the fill pump. just unplug and use a multimeter or test light to verify you're getting current when you turn the switch on.

It's possible that the circuit is fused too. look for fuses that might be blown?

[Poison]

They all share the same pump, but there is a fuse for each one (3 amp I think). The fuse is actually for the solenoid that selects which bag the pump is filling. It is located under the drivers console. If you lay on your back under the steering wheel you will see them up there...they are further forward than the instruments on mine. On my XLV you kind of have to contort yourself to get to it, but there are 3 fuses and are labeled left, right, and front solenoid. My center one went out this year as well. Replaced the fuse and all is well. That is where I would start. If both fill and empty are not working, that is likely the culprit.

[trayson]

They all share the same pump, but there is a fuse for each one (3 amp I think). The fuse is actually for the solenoid that selects which bag the pump is filling. It is located under the drivers console. If you lay on your back under the steering wheel you will see them up there...they are further forward than the instruments on mine. On my XLV you kind of have to contort yourself to get to it, but there are 3 fuses and are labeled left, right, and front solenoid. My center one went out this year as well. Replaced the fuse and all is well. That is where I would start. If both fill and empty are not working, that is likely the culprit.

When you say solenoid, are you talking about the sprinkler valves?

[Poison]

No, it controls the solenoids on the manifold that go to the individual bags. The manifold sits on top of the transmission on my boat. At least I assume that is the solenoids that the fuse is for. It says solenoid right on that fuse panel with a front, right, and left fuse. When that fuse (center) was shot, my center bag would neither fill nor empty but the other two bags were fine.

Should look like this: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7327/8870564271_1621837a49_b.jpg

[trayson]

No, it controls the solenoids on the manifold that go to the individual bags. The manifold sits on top of the transmission on my boat. At least I assume that is the solenoids that the fuse is for. It says solenoid right on that fuse panel with a front, right, and left fuse. When that fuse (center) was shot, my center bag would neither fill nor empty but the other two bags were fine.

Okay, we are talking about the same things. You're calling them "solenoids" and yes, there is a solenoid on the sprinkler valve assembly.

If you look at this picture, you'll see my gravity III system that I took out of my XLV. If you look at my manifold, you can see the green sprinker valve with the black end on it. the whole thing is basically one assembly, but technically, the black part with the electrical wires is the solenoid and the green is the valve. But most people on here call them "sprinkler valves" because they are literally the valves (with solenoids to actuate them electronically) used in sprinkler systems to water your lawn. In fact, the green one pictured was bought from home depot in the Irrigation section.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-E57T24QBJm8/VU1iOijapXI/AAAAAAAAY1o/82v1OJEScwE/s800/20150508_182135.jpg

[Poison]

Right on. The fuse panel that was my culprit says solenoid, so I just stuck with that. I routinely screw up the nomenclature with some of these parts. Did you upgrade the ballast to the three fill pumps? I thought about that, but I can't bring myself to drill holes in the hull.

[mjr119]

I see a fuse panel under my dash. It is located on a fiberglass support beam that runs from the steering wheel towards the bow. I believe there are 6 fuses (maybe 8). I couldnt read anything, but I will double check this evening. Is it safe to say these are the sprinkler valve solenoid fuses? Just want to confirm before I start pulling stuff and create a problem I didnt have! haha.

[trayson]

When that fuse (center) was shot, my center bag would neither fill nor empty but the other two bags were fine.


Also, I find it interesting it would behave this way. The fuse must be upsteam of the power going to the switch because you said when the fuse was blown that the empty pump wouldn't work either. The empty pump really has nothing to do with the sprinkler valve/solenoid. it's really just powered on with the bottom 1/2 of the switch, whereas the top half of the switch (fill) powers on the fill pump AND one of the solenoids at the same time. so the fill pump operates when ANY of the switches is turned to FILL, and each switch controls each of the 3 solenoids. But the EMPTY part of the switch simply powers each individual empty pump. no manifold or valves on the empty side.

Not that it matters. Just interesting.


Right on. The fuse panel that was my culprit says solenoid, so I just stuck with that. I routinely screw up the nomenclature with some of these parts. Did you upgrade the ballast to the three fill pumps? I thought about that, but I can't bring myself to drill holes in the hull.

I have seen it done a handful of ways:

Add a TEE and put a 2nd pump on your thru-hull and have that 2nd pump feed one of the sprinkler valves, and possibly upgrade the sprinkler valves to the "high flow" itterol ones
rip out the whole factory system, add 1" lines, add 1200GPH pumps on individual thru-hulls, upgrade to 1200gph drain pumps, add check valves and vented loops as needed.
Rip out the factory system and add reversible pumps (with check valves if desired for above water line draining)


I did option #2. It was a lot of work, a big PITA to fit all the pumps/ball valves in the bilge and it's a bit faster and a bit (in theory) less expensive than going with reversible. My aerator pumps do draw a lot less current, and are cheap and easy to replace if one dies or gets clogged.

Option #3 would have been way easier.

Option #1 was done by kaneboats and he has done a lot of retrofitting in various ways.


It's a tough call on what to do. The sprinkler valves are so constricting, that is a bottleneck for sure. The single fill pump is another bottleneck. The 3/4" lines are another bottleneck. and most certainly the factory 800gph SLOW drain pumps are another bottleneck. The distance from the factory drain pumps to the actual bags sometimes create priming issues. So bottom line, the factory system has a ton of bottlenecks that can be addressed individually, or you can pretty much gut it and go with aerator pumps (like I did) or you can go reversible (like most are doing).

[trayson]

I see a fuse panel under my dash. It is located on a fiberglass support beam that runs from the steering wheel towards the bow. I believe there are 6 fuses (maybe 8). I couldnt read anything, but I will double check this evening. Is it safe to say these are the sprinkler valve solenoid fuses? Just want to confirm before I start pulling stuff and create a problem I didnt have! haha.

I don't know what those fuses are, but honestly if it was me I would pull out my multimeter. on the top of each of the fuses there's a tiny contact that you can touch with the multimeter's probes. Set the multimeter to the "continuity check" setting. When you touch both the probes together, the multimeter will beep, showing that you've got a complete circuit. If you touched each lead to one of the contacts on the top of a fuse, then it'll beep, showing that the fuse is in tact. if it doesn't beep, the fuse is blown. it's a really easy way to test all your fuses without pulling them.

[mjr119]

22042

Here is a picture of the fuse panel. 3 15 amp and 3 3 amp fuses. Which would be the sprinkler solenoid fuses?

[mmandley]

22042

Here is a picture of the fuse panel. 3 15 amp and 3 3 amp fuses. Which would be the sprinkler solenoid fuses?

The Solenoids should be the larger fuses, 1 bank is each solenoid and the other is each drain pump.

[trayson]

The Solenoids should be the larger fuses, 1 bank is each solenoid and the other is each drain pump.

You really think that the sprinkler valve solenoids draw more power than the drain pumps? Or is the 15 amps the combo of a sprinkler valve AND the fill pump? Or maybe it's 3 amps for the sprinkler valve solenoid, and 15 amps that will go to either the fill or drain pump. that would make more sense. 3 amps is just piddly and I don't see that being enough for a pump of any kind. But that's just speculation. It's kind of a weird setup. I still say check ALL the fuses, it's silly not to.

[mmandley]

Well factory they are all 3 Amp, so someone could have updated them. The drain pumps only need a 2.5amp fuse. When I piggy backed 3 pumps off one circuit to run my IBS off the center it would pop on 7.5 but not 10.

I would lean towards the higher fuses due to it turning on the pump and opening the valve. Aerators draw very little current, as do the valves.

Yes I would check them all while I was at it. I would also upgrade them all to 5amp and 10amp as well. Just me though.

[trayson]

Well factory they are all 3 Amp, so someone could have updated them. The drain pumps only need a 2.5amp fuse. When I piggy backed 3 pumps off one circuit to run my IBS off the center it would pop on 7.5 but not 10.

I would lean towards the higher fuses due to it turning on the pump and opening the valve. Aerators draw very little current, as do the valves.

Yes I would check them all while I was at it. I would also upgrade them all to 5amp and 10amp as well. Just me though.

THat makes sense. I guess you do know a thing of two! LOL!!!

Also, it's good to know that kind of info. one of the reasons I went with an overhauled aerator system in my XLV is because of the low current draw. I like the QUIET pumps that draw very little because I'm typically filling or emptying with the engine off. I didn't wanna have to rack up hours on my boat just to run all my pumps at once. (yeah, those of you with big battery banks mitigate that issues, but I just have 2 batteries)

[cornrickey]

More than likely it blew the fuse due to empty pump being seized or clogged and replacing the fuse will only result in another blown fuse. Pull the pump and spin the pump head first.

[mjr119]

Im going to inspect the pump and swap fuses this evening. WIll report back with results. Thanks everyone!

[mjr119]

Found the problem. I guess the previous owner left the center switch on empty until it melted the entire plastic housing of the bilge pump. Fuse was blown. Now the fill pump comes on and I'll have to replace the empty pump.

[cornrickey]

Yup.........

[mjr119]

Got the new pump in tonight. Took about 5 minutes. If anyone has the stock gravity 3 ballast system and needs a pump, I would recommend a Seaflo 500gph bilge pump. I didnt need to empty the sac super fast, so I just stuck with a 500 GPH pump. The Seaflo was $11.35 shipped on eBay. I'm not sure how long it will last but for $11 I think it was worth a shot. The clamp area is slightly longer than the rule bilge so it was easier to get the clamp on the body of the pump.