Another old vid: VW Touareg vs. Full Size Duramax Diesel.

[trayson]

Since we're posting old vid's, I really enjoyed this one where they played tug-o-war between a Duramax Diesel and a VW Touareg diesel.

The Euro SUV owned the bro-dozer truck! LMAO! I can't imagine why the bed mounted smoke stacks didn't help the duramax to victory!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k62gW3Se5e0

I know which one I'd rather drive. :-P

[uniwarking]

With about 2k lbs in the bed it would have ended much differently. Power to the ground or wake/wave off the boat all depends on proper ballasting!


You can tell that lift kit has impacted the axle wrap with all that wheel hop as well!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mmandley]

I hate all these types of videos. They really just piss me off. Same as the rolling coal videos which has now brought the EPA in diesel owners faces.

I don't care if your little VW, Chevy, Ford, Ram can pull my buddies car across the road in a rug a war. This only demonstrates the idiot who lost traction first.

You want to show your ass, then do stunts like this that only beg to break drive train components.

Want to prove how bad ass your diesel is? Hook it to a real load and out pull up a hill or something.

Notice how these other cars with Diesels are not in truck pulls?

Ok rant over lol

[gregski]

You want to show your ass, then do stunts like this that only beg to break drive train components.
I was hoping for the strap to break.

[trayson]

I hate all these types of videos. They really just piss me off. Same as the rolling coal videos which has now brought the EPA in diesel owners faces.

I don't care if your little VW, Chevy, Ford, Ram can pull my buddies car across the road in a rug a war. This only demonstrates the idiot who lost traction first.

You want to show your ass, then do stunts like this that only beg to break drive train components.

Want to prove how bad ass your diesel is? Hook it to a real load and out pull up a hill or something.

Notice how these other cars with Diesels are not in truck pulls?

Ok rant over lol

LOL. you make me laugh.

Yes, it most certainly demonstrates that there's more to the equation than just power/torque. I've always been a fan of the saying that power without traction is worthless. The Duramax most certainly had more power/torque, but the T-reg won because it could put its traction to the pavement more effectively. /tugofwar

As far as towing a load, I can humor you there too. How about the same model T-reg towing a 747:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05zRyoBbcfI

haha!



Because power w/o traction is worthless (unless you're in a burnoff competition, then it's everything!), that's why on my Jeep I had a ton of money invested in TRACTION and pretty much NOTHING done to increase power. I had air lockers (so I could DOUBLE my traction at the flip of a switch by mechanically locking both of my differentials; as we should all know that "four wheel drive" is really 2 tire drive with open differentials). I also went with 12.50 wide tires, and then also had beadlocks so I could air down to 7psi and increase my contact patch dramatically. (another reason I laugh at running big 20" plus size wheels with 35" tires that give you basically no sidewall to increase your contact patch when you air down).

In the street world, I've driven a 700+ WHEEL horse power supercharged E46 M3 on a private road course where you basically had to keep traction control on because there was just so much power that it was almost impossible to control wheel spin otherwise. But man, it was a kick in the pants to drive!!!


But when all is said and done, I enjoyed watching a big diesel Bro-Dozer get owned by the Euro SUV. It just makes me feel all warm and fuzzy. Like when I am driving up to the mountain on the curvy snow-covered mountain roads and my "station wagon" with AWD and studless snow tires destroys all the SUV's and Trucks. It makes me giggle. :-P

[trayson]

And it's fun to push your buttons Mike!

[beat taco]

While you're laughing at my 20" wheels are you sitting in the ridgeline with the boat hooked to it?

[trayson]

While you're laughing at my 20" wheels are you sitting in the ridgeline with the boat hooked to it?

now, now, you're 20's are perfectly fine for towing. and they look badass. They just aren't optimal for adding traction offroad by airing down because of lack of sidewall was my point.

And did I compare a ridgeline with a big truck? Nope. I was comparing the 35's on my Jeep I do believe. (my Jeep that would be the suck for towing but kicks ass offroad).

I also drive an Audi Station wagon and a BMW convertible. And I guess they have just as much relevance to 20" tires on a truck as the ridgeline, right? LOL.

P.S. I'm not the only XLV owner that tows with a Ridgeline. :-)

P.S.S. You might have noticed that having a Ridgeline meant that my Buddy in the Dodge Cummings towed the Supra to Prineville. That worked out quite nicely!

[bergermaister]

I think I'd just hold my brakes and let the little bastard try to pull my 8k pounds. Then pop it in reverse and drive over him.

Funny I randomly just saw that exact video the other night. First thought "hold my beer, watch this"

[mmandley]

And it's fun to push your buttons Mike!

Your not pushing my buttons bro, that wasn't directed at me originally lol.

Its just these videos are the same as the type you see Boats use for Surfing. The weight in the boat is not stock, they aren't going to tell you what it really is, its optimized for the point they are trying to make.

No different then these videos, they aren't showing you the guy who mashed the skinny pedal and broke his traction.

They aren't telling you the VW is in 4x4 Low with a huge gear reduction, or anything like that. They are relying on the poor saps to think its the every day joe car that can do this.

I have watched Men strap a bus to their backs and pull it.
I have seen a F350 diesel pull a 80K Semi
All depends on the situation and the particulars on the event.

[trayson]

I think I'd just hold my brakes and let the little bastard try to pull my 8k pounds. Then pop it in reverse and drive over him.

Funny I randomly just saw that exact video the other night. First thought "hold my beer, watch this"

Let's see, with AWD, and a V10 TDI engine putting out 310 hp and 553 lb-ft of torque, I'm sure he could drag your 8k pounds. :-)

I mean, an SUV with a tow capacity of 7,716 isn't too shabby.

[trayson]

Your not pushing my buttons bro, that wasn't directed at me originally lol.

Its just these videos are the same as the type you see Boats use for Surfing. The weight in the boat is not stock, they aren't going to tell you what it really is, its optimized for the point they are trying to make.

No different then these videos, they aren't showing you the guy who mashed the skinny pedal and broke his traction.

They aren't telling you the VW is in 4x4 Low with a huge gear reduction, or anything like that. They are relying on the poor saps to think its the every day joe car that can do this.

I have watched Men strap a bus to their backs and pull it.
I have seen a F350 diesel pull a 80K Semi
All depends on the situation and the particulars on the event.

True that. a more relevant test would be to put one against the other in a legit tractor pull.

Because TDI's pulling 747's and Tundras pulling the space shuttle doesn't exactly "prove" much. But it's fun to watch none-the-less. :-)

[beat taco]

Just because one other person does it doesn't make it right

[mmandley]

True that. a more relevant test would be to put one against the other in a legit tractor pull.

Because TDI's pulling 747's and Tundras pulling the space shuttle doesn't exactly "prove" much. But it's fun to watch none-the-less. :-)

It is fun to watch.
But if TDI and Tundra could pull stuff like that then why aren't they a main player in the world of towing?
Because they don't have a frame to match the capability?

Maybe?

Kinda like I know I can do 360's shuve its and jumps on my surf board, but my frame won't allow it? LOL

[mmandley]

Just because one other person does it doesn't make it right

I say this every time I see someone in SPandex that really shouldn't be wearing it.

Just because they make it in your size, or you can squeeze yourself into it, doesn't mean you need to wear it.

[bergermaister]

I thought I blocked you from viewing my photo bucket album dammit...

[trayson]

Just because one other person does it doesn't make it right

Well, we have to work with what we have. If I had a big truck, of course I'd tow with it. But I don't. We have my wife's rig and that's it. so we make it work. It was a big jump financially to go from the Sunsport to the XLV, but it was one of those things that was meant to be and we're making it work. As it is, I've been trying to sell my badass offroading Jeep so I can pay down more on the boat and not be paying on it forever. I'm trying to downsize the stable of vehicles, not add to it. The wife has zero interest in driving a full size whatever, and the Ridgeline is honestly the perfect vehicle for her. And it does fine for the 10 miles to/from the dock at 50 to 60mph. (although it certainly can keep up if I felt like dumping gas and mashing the skinny pedal.) But I just drive it easy.

That said, it's just not in the cards for us to get a different tow rig. so we make due with what we have.


It is fun to watch.
But if TDI and Tundra could pull stuff like that then why aren't they a main player in the world of towing?
Because they don't have a frame to match the capability?

Maybe?

Kinda like I know I can do 360's shuve its and jumps on my surf board, but my frame won't allow it? LOL

LOL. Probably because the cost of ownership is downright ridiculous on the V10 TDI. i.e. you would have to pull the engine to service the A/C pump. They do NOT make euro cars (especially VW/Audi) for ease/affordability of maintenance. My buddy's audi requires him to pull the entire front bumper to change a light bulb in his headlights or fog lights! Nutty.

And yes, you're correct. A solid axle, body on frame is the bees knees for the towing.

[trayson]

I say this every time I see someone in SPandex that really shouldn't be wearing it.

Just because they make it in your size, or you can squeeze yourself into it, doesn't mean you need to wear it.


LOL. Says the guy that won't wear a drysuit and insists on wearing a wetsuit. :-P

[mmandley]

LOL. Says the guy that won't wear a drysuit and insists on wearing a wetsuit. :-P

Touche, my friend. But you only see curves in my wetsuit, not creases, camel toe, or moose knuckle.

[trayson]

Touche, my friend. But you only see curves in my wetsuit, not creases, camel toe, or moose knuckle.

"You're sexy and you know it".

[mmandley]

"You're sexy and you know it".

"No you are with your little gloves on"

[kaneboats]

the cost of ownership is downright ridiculous on the V10 TDI. i.e. you would have to pull the engine to service the A/C pump. They do NOT make euro cars (especially VW/Audi) for ease/affordability of maintenance. My buddy's audi requires him to pull the entire front bumper to change a light bulb in his headlights or fog lights! Nutty.

I did a BMW convertible experiment for my wife a few years ago. NEVER AGAIN! Every single thing on the car was just like that. When I hear "German Engineering" I laugh out loud because it is the biggest joke/scam going. I should have known better after my VW Rabbit experience. I had one for a few months way back when. Got a flat, pulled over, jacked it up and removed the BOLTS! Yes, bolts. You had to hold the wheel in the air and try to thread a bolt into the hub because the German Engineers thought that design was the way to go. Lesson learned: Buy American. Let the other guys have the German and Chinese cars.

[trayson]

I did a BMW convertible experiment for my wife a few years ago. NEVER AGAIN! Every single thing on the car was just like that. When I hear "German Engineering" I laugh out loud because it is the biggest joke/scam going. I should have known better after my VW Rabbit experience. I had one for a few months way back when. Got a flat, pulled over, jacked it up and removed the BOLTS! Yes, bolts. You had to hold the wheel in the air and try to thread a bolt into the hub because the German Engineers thought that design was the way to go. Lesson learned: Buy American. Let the other guys have the German and Chinese cars.

Oh I LOVE my M3 convertible. The e36 M3 was voted car and driver's Best Handling Car at Any Price when it came out. Mine is fantastic. From tearing up the mountain twisties, to doing track days at Portland International Raceway, to driving my wife for a convertible night on the town in Portland, it's the perfect combo of Luxury, performance, and style. It was my dream car in college and I couldn't be happier.

And yes, you have to be willing to work on them yourselves and do your research on forums and buy parts on the internet not to lose your shorts.

Oh, and this "wheel in the air" problem??? Yeah, solved with a $12 tool that I carry in the tool kit that came in the trunk lid of my car:

http://www.bavauto.com/fland.asp?part=12mm

http://www.bavauto.com/assets/product_images/1/12mm.jpg

Step 1: take threaded rod and screw it into lug bolt socket
Step 2: slide wheel onto threaded rod
Step 3: Easily put the other 4 lug bolts into wheel

[kaneboats]

That might be the stupidest thing I've ever seen. Do you have a special wrench in the trunk to remove the gas cap too? I would immediately sell any car that I had to carry something like that for. Friggin' German morons. NEVER AGAIN!

[drb59]

I have an X3 and agree with you Kane. I just changed my winter tires and by the time I was done I was really sore from holding up the tires and threading in the first bolt!:mad: Nice to drive but expensive to fix as well.

[kaneboats]

And don't even get me started on the whole "battery is in the trunk but the trunk won't open when the battery is dead" thing. Or the convertible top reset procedure. Or the stupid "replace every two year" coolant tank that cracks at the seams when you hit a bump. What a POS! Can't believe anyone is still buying Beamers.

[trayson]

That might be the stupidest thing I've ever seen. Do you have a special wrench in the trunk to remove the gas cap too? I would immediately sell any car that I had to carry something like that for. Friggin' German morons. NEVER AGAIN!

I think you missed my point. You came up with a "problem" that was so bad it drove you away from a brand of car I adore. A problem that really wasn't a huge deal to me. But since Necessity is the mother of invention, someone created a tool to make life easier. Do you *need* the tool? Absolutely not. Do I need a floor jack and an air impact gun to change my tires? Nope, but it sure makes life a hell of a lot easier. Someone made a $12 tool that eliminates so much constirnation that it drove you away from an amazing car. But then again, maybe it's a car that really wasn't a good fit in the first place. If you're looking for practical, reliable, easy to work on, etc. Maybe it just wasn't your thing. My list of things I look for in cars is undoubtedly WAY different than yours.

BMW's mantra is the "ultimate driving machine". they are designed as cars that are for those of us that are passionate drivers. Not utilitarian transportation to get from A to B. But for driving the twisty mountain roads, for doing high performance driving events on race tracks. BMW has a whole separate division dedicated to the 'motorsports' enthusiast and I love them for it.

For me driving is an experience. I'm not one of those people that's just about transportation. I am on the board of my local BMW CCA club and we're a group of people that are passionate about our German cars, and together we go on driving tours, to car shows, to high performance driving events. It's awesome. It's really not all that different than the passionate group of people that gather here to love on our Moombas.

I'll never have something like a Minivan, no matter how cheap, practical, and easy to work on they might be. I'll likely never have a Suburban either. My "utility" vehicle of choice is a 340 HP V8 Audi AWD wagon that can haul a load from Home Depot, seat passengers in luxury with heated front and rear seats, and can rally up the snow covered mountain passes like no other vehicle I've driven. My beloved Audi likewise has it's PITA quirks, but I love it none-the-less. I tried to talk myself into a borning, practical Subaru outback. But it just wasn't me.

Do my vehicles sometimes require more time/effort/money than other alternatives? Yes. I can't argue that. However, I *get* so much more out of them that it's totally worth it to me. You think I've got a lot of "mods" on my boat??? You should see what I've done to my other vehicles.

I'm an enthusiast. Maybe it's a curse, but thank God that those Germans make performance cars for people like me that truly enjoy and appreciate them despite their "flaws".

[trayson]

And don't even get me started on the whole "battery is in the trunk but the trunk won't open when the battery is dead" thing. Or the convertible top reset procedure. Or the stupid "replace every two year" coolant tank that cracks at the seams when you hit a bump. What a POS! Can't believe anyone is still buying Beamers.

LMAO.

My trunk opens then the battery is dead. Did you try opening the HOOD where there are jump/charging points?

Top reset proceedure? Yeah, what's so hard about that to understand? Follow the directions. It's a pretty technologically awesome creation for its era. Microswitches and electonics make it possible to have a fully auto top that makes it so easy to drop top on my M3 that the idea of spending 5 to 10 minutes fighting with the manual top on my Jeep is just not attractive.

I've owned my M3 from 2008 to 2015. From 85k miles to 155k. I've had one coolant tank go. Big deal. Every car has weak points. Pay attention and take care of your car.

They say it all the time, if you want a boring, reliable car you should have got a Honda.


That's okay, you don't have to "get it". But I'd hope you can at least appreciate and respect the alternative point of view from someone that's wired differently than you. Our views are both "valid" even if we disagree. I get where you're coming from. I hope you can understand people like me that view the world a little differently.

[newty]

Trayson, let's hook your bmw up to my lil' pick-up and check your traction theory. Hell, you can even chain up your ridgeline. For the sake of science of course.

[trayson]

Trayson, let's hook your bmw up to my lil' pick-up and check your traction theory. Hell, you can even chain up your ridgeline. For the sake of science of course.

I don't think my lil 3800 pound M3 is much of a 'tractor pull' rig. However, let's pick a road course and we can race for pinks... I've got my title in hand.

[trayson]

Kane, I'm sure it'll make you feel all warm and fuzzy to know that I'm literally stepping out into the garage right now to do some maintenance on my M3.

Gotta keep my baby quick and nimble!

[kaneboats]

If you decide to have that race be sure to take a tow truck with you. Half of the BMW folks have no idea what the ultimate driving experience is because they are in dealer loaner cars.

[newty]

I'll have to ask the bank. I thought this was for science...
I'd give it a go for fun though.

[trayson]

If you decide to have that race be sure to take a tow truck with you. Half of the BMW folks have no idea what the ultimate driving experience is because they are in dealer loaner cars.

Comedian you are.

Because funny, I our BMW club has driven THOUSANDS of miles of club drives with hundreds of BMW's that have participated, and breakdowns are exceptionally rare.


Oh, and I did a little test for ya kane... I paid attention to the amount of time it took me to put my rear wheel back on. somewhere in the neighborhood of 60 seconds give or take. That's starting with the wheel off, and finishing with all 5 lug bolts at 90 ft lbs. And I wasn't really hurrying. It's a good thing you're a comedian, because you'd never make it in a pit crew. Oh, and I'm just one step higher than a trained monkey, so my 60 seconds should be an easy feat.


I'll have to ask the bank. I thought this was for science...
I'd give it a go for fun though.

Yahoo! We could do it old school. Lower river road. We'll send Berg out to watch for cops!

[newty]

Sounds fun

[trayson]

I know we've fully derailed from Touareg's and Bro-Dozers all the way over to Kane's hatred for BMW's. (but hey, this is in Off Topic, so who cares).

The best reason for my love of BMW's is because buying a BMW allowed me to meet my wife. If I had gotten a different car, she and I would have never met and we're so incredibly perfect for each other it would have been a tragedy.

After my divorce, I decided to get a car to have as a daily driver (my 10mpg rockcrawler Jeep wasn't going to cut it on 440 mile roundtrips to meet my Ex for exchanges of our son). I'd always loved and adored the BMW convertibles and picked up a neat little black 328i cabrio. Along the way, I of course got very involved in BMW forums and met a friend (Les) and fellow E36 convertible owner. We both loved our BMW's and snowboarding. He introduced me to a friend of his (Liz) and the 3 of us would head up to the mountain and ski/snowboard together. Liz and I got to be friends and would chat about relationships from time to time. I had shared that I was very fine being single, but if I did find someone, that they'd have a certain list of qualities. Well, around the same time, Liz had been having a similar conversation with her friend Cindy. Soon enough, Liz realized that Cindy and I were basically talking about each other and we'd have to meet. The three of us got together for happy hour and then played some guitar hero. I asked Cindy out for a date a few days later. A year later I proposed. And we've lived happily ever after.

If I wouldn't have bought my first BMW, I wouldn't have met Les. I wouldn't have in turn met Liz, and I wouldn't have been introduced to my amazing wife Cindy.

Buying a BMW was the best thing I've ever done.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6N-uKfFi4Mg/UBASc443u7I/AAAAAAAAMsY/p-a_BAYTiUI/s800/3_dsc1283.jpg

[rdlangston13]

The thing with German cars that get me is what benefit do you gain by having lug bolts to lug nuts?

They over complicate things for no benefit, there are plenty of other cars that drive awesome but are not retardedly put together


Sent from my iPhone

[sivs1]

I know we've fully derailed from Touareg's and Bro-Dozers all the way over to Kane's hatred for BMW's. (but hey, this is in Off Topic, so who cares).

The best reason for my love of BMW's is because buying a BMW allowed me to meet my wife. If I had gotten a different car, she and I would have never met and we're so incredibly perfect for each other it would have been a tragedy.

After my divorce, I decided to get a car to have as a daily driver (my 10mpg rockcrawler Jeep wasn't going to cut it on 440 mile roundtrips to meet my Ex for exchanges of our son). I'd always loved and adored the BMW convertibles and picked up a neat little black 328i cabrio. Along the way, I of course got very involved in BMW forums and met a friend (Les) and fellow E36 convertible owner. We both loved our BMW's and snowboarding. He introduced me to a friend of his (Liz) and the 3 of us would head up to the mountain and ski/snowboard together. Liz and I got to be friends and would chat about relationships from time to time. I had shared that I was very fine being single, but if I did find someone, that they'd have a certain list of qualities. Well, around the same time, Liz had been having a similar conversation with her friend Cindy. Soon enough, Liz realized that Cindy and I were basically talking about each other and we'd have to meet. The three of us got together for happy hour and then played some guitar hero. I asked Cindy out for a date a few days later. A year later I proposed. And we've lived happily ever after.

If I wouldn't have bought my first BMW, I wouldn't have met Les. I wouldn't have in turn met Liz, and I wouldn't have been introduced to my amazing wife Cindy.

Buying a BMW was the best thing I've ever done.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6N-uKfFi4Mg/UBASc443u7I/AAAAAAAAMsY/p-a_BAYTiUI/s800/3_dsc1283.jpg

That's Awesome.

[mmandley]

I don't think my lil 3800 pound M3 is much of a 'tractor pull' rig. However, let's pick a road course and we can race for pinks... I've got my title in hand.

<snicker>

I got a +300hp +350tq 3300lb convertible that will give you a serious run at that option. Ohh yea I have the title to it in hand as well. LOL.

Honestly don't know if it will outrun the BMW or out handle it, but I have been wanting to put it on the track to see how well it will do. LOL

On your story with Cindy, thats how I feel about coming to OR to work at Intel. If I wouldn't have gone back to school for my degree, my first wife wouldn't have got mad that I had no free time to spend with her working full time and going to school full time. So we wouldn't have divorced, and me move to OR to work for Intel. In turn that helped me meet Claudia, then buy my first home, my first boat, meet all you fine people, and then buy my Dream Car since I was a HS knucklehead.

[trayson]

<snicker>

I got a +300hp +350tq 3300lb convertible that will give you a serious run at that option. Ohh yea I have the title to it in hand as well. LOL.

Honestly don't know if it will outrun the BMW or out handle it, but I have been wanting to put it on the track to see how well it will do. LOL

On your story with Cindy, thats how I feel about coming to OR to work at Intel. If I wouldn't have gone back to school for my degree, my first wife wouldn't have got mad that I had no free time to spend with her working full time and going to school full time. So we wouldn't have divorced, and me move to OR to work for Intel. In turn that helped me meet Claudia, then buy my first home, my first boat, meet all you fine people, and then buy my Dream Car since I was a HS knucklehead.

^^^ yep, some things are just meant to be.

On the vette vs m3, it would all depend on the road or track choice. I will do as wel. Or better than the high HP cars on things where it's more about handling than being a "straight line hero". I do an event each year where we rent a private twisty road and let it rip. Soooo fun.

I really dont know how they'd face off. Heck, I am curious how my S6 would stack up against the M3. Now if I someday SC or turbo'd the M3, then it'd be downright scary.

But yeah, I come here as someone that has no desire for a big truck, big suv and people don't get me.

[mmandley]

Heres some replies from the Bimmerforums.

The C4 corvette has been the car to have in A Stock for a few years running. The M3 is in B Stock. B Stock is slower on average than A Stock.

Topeka SoloII Finals '04: '89 Corvettes finish 1st, 2nd, 5th, 6th. No M3's even showed up in B Stock.

What about when they're modified? Well, the M3 and the 'vette both compete in BSP together. So the M3 must kick butt, right? Nope. Highest placing M3 was 5th. The top four cars were C4s.

Topeka SoloII Finals '03: '93 Corvette finishes 1st. '89 Vette finishes 3rd and 4th. '96 Vette finishes 5th and 6th. No M3's even showed up in B Stock. One MRoadster did - he finished 37th.

Corvettes finished 1-3 in BSP. TC Kline drove his '95 M3 to fourth. Vette's were 5th and 6th with Lee Piccione finishing just out of the trophies in 7th with his '95 M3.

Oh, and the C4 dominated the '03 and '04 Prosolo. Everyone who entered in A Stock had one. Nobody brought a '95 M3 to B Stock.

thread.

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?356684-C4-Corvette-vs-E36-M3-on-autocross-track

Would be interesting some time.

With my new wheels and tires I have its a lot stickier on the road. Less wheel spin, feels more sure footed in the corners. I honestly think my biggest downside is the Automatic Trans.

[trayson]

Heres some replies from the Bimmerforums.

The C4 corvette has been the car to have in A Stock for a few years running. The M3 is in B Stock. B Stock is slower on average than A Stock.

Topeka SoloII Finals '04: '89 Corvettes finish 1st, 2nd, 5th, 6th. No M3's even showed up in B Stock.

What about when they're modified? Well, the M3 and the 'vette both compete in BSP together. So the M3 must kick butt, right? Nope. Highest placing M3 was 5th. The top four cars were C4s.

Topeka SoloII Finals '03: '93 Corvette finishes 1st. '89 Vette finishes 3rd and 4th. '96 Vette finishes 5th and 6th. No M3's even showed up in B Stock. One MRoadster did - he finished 37th.

Corvettes finished 1-3 in BSP. TC Kline drove his '95 M3 to fourth. Vette's were 5th and 6th with Lee Piccione finishing just out of the trophies in 7th with his '95 M3.

Oh, and the C4 dominated the '03 and '04 Prosolo. Everyone who entered in A Stock had one. Nobody brought a '95 M3 to B Stock.

thread.

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?356684-C4-Corvette-vs-E36-M3-on-autocross-track

Would be interesting some time.

With my new wheels and tires I have its a lot stickier on the road. Less wheel spin, feels more sure footed in the corners. I honestly think my biggest downside is the Automatic Trans.

I can live with that. I mean my car came stock with a piddly 240hp. I've modded it up to about 285-290, but still way low by today's standards. That said, appearance wise, I think my M3 is sex on wheels. I adore it. For me, it's the perfect mix of European luxury, performance, and style in a top down package that was literally my dream car in college and I now own. It would take something that was a LOT more expensive to make me a smidge more happy. What it's right, it's right.

[trayson]

The thing with German cars that get me is what benefit do you gain by having lug bolts to lug nuts?

They over complicate things for no benefit, there are plenty of other cars that drive awesome but are not retardedly put together


Sent from my iPhone

I hadn't really thought about it much. But I'll talk from personal experience. My Jeep of course has lug nuts. I run a WARN aftermarket manual hub kit. Because of this, the manual hubs act like a spacer on my wheels. You would not believe how much of a pain in the a** it was to find studs that had the right neural diameter and were long enough to work. And this is with steel wheels. When I tried to run aluminum wheels with a thicker face, it was even worse and I had to use special collared lug nuts to barely get a few threads on. And even when I found the longest studs they made that were the right size, pitch, etc; then I had to take them to a machine shop to have them pressed in.

Contrast that to one of my BMW's where on a set of snow wheels, to clear the calipers I ran a small spacer. To gain those extra threads it was EASY, just get a longer lug bolt. Done.


Beyond those examples, there's really no clear answer. BMW, Audi and Mercedes all use Bolts. Maybe it's the same kind of thing like why do the British and Japanese drive on the other side of the road. Maybe it's just because that is how it started way back when and it's just always been that way since.

That said, I really don't even think about it. Even when i'm not using a wheel hanger pin, it doesn't take me more than a second to get them lined up and threaded. I typically sit on my little wheeled garage stool, lift the wheel up to the hub, balance the wheel on my toes with my heels on the ground so my feet are lifting the tire for me, and then I have my hands free and the wheel lifted to the correct height and it goes really quick. I popped on/off a wheel on my Audi today and didn't bother using the guide pin.

[mmandley]

Here ya go.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfzvZUzrHC4

[beat taco]

One of my best kill stories of all time in my 96 Impala SS was against one of those year M3's. What a fun car the LT1 made that thing. For huge cars they could turn pretty good too. And stop good. But nothing like a Vette. I sold mine but I'll always have the memories. I can proudly say I never drove it without roasting the rear tires off it!

[wolfeman131]

I typically sit on my little wheeled garage stool, lift the wheel up to the hub, balance the wheel on my toes with my heels on the ground so my feet are lifting the tire for me, and then I have my hands free and the wheel lifted to the correct height and it goes really quick. I popped on/off a wheel on my Audi today and didn't bother using the guide pin.

That sounds super convenient for when you're on the side of the highway changing a flat with 18 wheelers blowing by you at 75-80 mph. Well, only if you have remembered to pack your little wheeled garage stool.

[sivs1]

So with all the German car bashing going on I guess I should chime in. Until recently we have an Audi allroad and a Porsche Cayenne. Both were very well refined and a blast to drive.

The Audi had a twin turbo V6 and with all wheel drive that thing flew. Air ride, adjustable suspension leaked and was pricey to fix, a bunch of other stupid stuff that seems to be "normal wear and tear" were always needing replaced at a minimum each time in the shop I would drop $700+.

The Porsche was just a beautiful SUV, we'd still have it if it were a bit bigger. We were concerned with gas mileage so went with the V6, which made it the best looking most gutless Porsche on the road, frankly, it's too heavy for a V6. Oil changes were over $200 a pop and only done at dealer, brakes were just over $2,000 and again only done at dealer.

Loved both the German cars we owned, I would buy either one again even knowing they are spendy to repair.

[trayson]

That sounds super convenient for when you're on the side of the highway changing a flat with 18 wheelers blowing by you at 75-80 mph. Well, only if you have remembered to pack your little wheeled garage stool.

LOL. You guys like to ride me like a cheap donkey, don't ya? at least wear a saddle next time. you could do the same sitting on the ground if you *needed* to. But again, with the $12 pin that I carry in my toolkit in my trunk, it might add 15 seconds tops if I didn't have my comfy stool.

But hey, they are terrible cars and offer zero enjoyment to the driver, so you should NEVER get one.


So with all the German car bashing going on I guess I should chime in. Until recently we have an Audi allroad and a Porsche Cayenne. Both were very well refined and a blast to drive.

The Audi had a twin turbo V6 and with all wheel drive that thing flew. Air ride, adjustable suspension leaked and was pricey to fix, a bunch of other stupid stuff that seems to be "normal wear and tear" were always needing replaced at a minimum each time in the shop I would drop $700+.

The Porsche was just a beautiful SUV, we'd still have it if it were a bit bigger. We were concerned with gas mileage so went with the V6, which made it the best looking most gutless Porsche on the road, frankly, it's too heavy for a V6. Oil changes were over $200 a pop and only done at dealer, brakes were just over $2,000 and again only done at dealer.

Loved both the German cars we owned, I would buy either one again even knowing they are spendy to repair.

I had an A6 avant before my S6. I almost went allroad, but didn't like the two tone, and knew I'd never really use the air suspension (except for the 402 mod to drop it). So I went with the S6 avant and got all the benefits of the allroad with none of the drawbacks. I love the 340hp v8 that's just good to go with no mods needed.

They're certainly not for everyone. But for those of us that can appreciate them and live with their "drawbacks", they're fantastic.


Heck, I remember having a conversation with someone who told me that boats are SOOO expensive and just cost too much for him to ever justify. Sounds familiar really. Yep, wakeboats aren't very maneuverable at low speeds, don't handle chop well, and everything for them costs a ton of money and maintenance can be very expensive. Boats sounds like a losing proposition to be avoided too!

[kaneboats]

Please don't compare low maintenance proven inboard designs powered by American engines to your BS hype German crap cars. It is not a good analogy. Maybe compare them to boats with finicky 2 stroke outboards-- perhaps a more apt analogy.

[trayson]

Kane. You're a cool guy, but you've obviously got some crazy bias hate thing going on against german cars. Whatever man. You rock your big, boring American people haulers and I'll rock my sportscar that I dreamed about since I was in college and I'm sure we'll both be happy.

I'm off my internet soap box on this one. Sometimes it works better to have a little mutual respect for things that other people are passionate/enthusiast about rather than going out of your way to pee in their cheerios. I enjoyed the banter for a while, but now I'll move on.

[mark540]

Back in the day when I worked for a German company, I had a 540i and an E46 M3, both were truely great cars, no issues other than the 540i was somehow completely invisible to a teenage girl driving in a neighborhood. The BMW's are just truely amazing to drive, mark540 stuck from the bimmer forums over 10 years ago now.

I do like to share so most recently has been american muscle and these cars have gotten really good as well. I have had a couple of Charger Srt8's as well as a new Camaro SS and ZL1, all I can say is other than the interior, the ZL1 is stupid in all catagories.

my wife now has a Infinity QX80 so I guess I am all over the map.

[rdlangston13]

I would opt for the caddy CTS V wagon over the Audi wagon. 556 hp vs 340 hp and it can turn


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[trayson]

I would opt for the caddy CTS V wagon over the Audi wagon. 556 hp vs 340 hp and it can turn


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David, that's not really fair. My Audi S6 wagon was made from 2001 to 2002.


The Cadillac CTS-V Wagon was available from model years 2011 to 2014

Comparing my car to something a decade newer isn't apples to apples. In it's day, my car was the stuff:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/audi-s6-avant-quattro-short-take-road-test


The bottom line: If BMW's M5 is the ultimate sedan (Any argument on that? No? Good.), then the S6 Avant is the ultimate wagon. End of discussion.

[mmandley]

.

In it's day, my car was the stuff:



I say this all the time, about myself though..sigh...LOL