2014 Mondo 345 vs 2015 Mondo Raptor 400

[alec]

Hey Everyone. Looking at getting either a 2014 Mondo with the 345HP engine or the 2015 with the new Raptor. I am having a really hard time with this one. I have read on the CARB site that the 345 will have 370ft/lbs of torque while the new Raptor is right at 400ft/lbs. Top end speed isn't all that important but I am aware that the HP ratings that have been posted in recent years aren't what they actually are. Plus I have been in a 22' boat with the Monsoon 350 last year and the thing was a bullet, even when weighted with an insance amount of ballast (assume the 345 and the 350 are pretty darn close in specs).

Since we will be using it for wakesurfing/boarding (beginner - intermediate riders), plus a ski and tube every now and again (we are not great skiers - mainly will be Grandpa going for a run and then hanging the skis back on the shelf, plus a crazy friend that is on the RiverRats), I am curious what peoples experiences are with each? Everyone that I have talked to said the 330HP engine is underwhelming compared to the Raptor, but where does the 345 fall? Also to fully paint the picture, the manual flow surf will be installed on either, plus we will be adding additional bags throughout the boat to scare the crap out of myself wakeboarding and to have a killer time surfing.

We are coming from an I/O with a 220HP engine and love the boat, but as we all know can't surf those. Should have bought V drive from the beginning, oh well.

I have also heard that they have reinforced the 2015 model year with a thicker shell for the surf system. Anyone know if putting the flow on a 2014 or older boat will cause problems down the road. Looking to do the boat buying once for a while now. Gonna be the guy with the 20 year old boat with the kids whinning for us to get a new one, so I want to make sure we get the right one.

Test driving the Raptor engine here shortly (ice just went out last week so the lake temps are likely in the low 40s), have to drive 5 hours for the 345 engine, so looking for any and all info you all have for me. And I am aware that test drive, test drive, test drive is the only way to do it, and I will be, but I would like to go in with some knowledge before hand.

Apprecaite all the help.

[KG's Supra24]

Double check me but I'm thinking the raptor has a longer warranty period than the 345. The raptor sounds awesome but I think you will have plenty of power with either motor. I think the overall deal, including the warranty difference, will be the decision maker .... not the lack of power from the 345. Both should easily get the job done in the Mondo.

You mentioned you will add the manual flow to either ... Is there a reason you aren't looking at the autoflow on the 2015?

[mmandley]

I have not spent any time in the Raptor engine but these are my thoughts on what you said.

15 having a Reinforced Hull vs the 14, I have not heard anything on this, from what I know the hulls are identical.

Raptor Engine

TORQUE CENTRIC PERFORMANCE
Best-in-class torque and horsepower at lower rpm ranges (2,500-3,500). The 6.2L Raptor Series is the result of purpose driven engineering designed to provide more torque where you need it to allow for increased loading of boats. Experience faster acceleration, less time to plane, reduced wear-and-tear and better fuel economy

LESS FUEL CONSUMPTION
Our computer controlled sequential firing multiport EFI system coupled with the additional control of wide-band air/fuel sensors and dual spark plugs makes for a leaner running engine which equates to better fuel economy and lower emissions. More time on the water and less time at the pump.

CLOSED COOLING
Helps maintain consistent engine temperatures contributing to better fuel economy and performance. Also prevents crank case condensation, ultimately eliminating corrosion leading to a longer engine life. Provides improved cabin heater performance.

TOWSPORT SPECIFIC MARINE OIL PAN AND PICK-UP TUBE
Designed to optimize oil pick-up at steep boat angles and high G turns. The purpose built marine oil pan takes away the worry of oil starvation by controlling how the oil moves around while towing all watersport disciplines.

RAPTOR PERFORMANCE MANAGEMENT SYSTEM (RPM)
In efforts to make boating easier for the driver, we have added a suite of monitoring systems that
enables the high-capacity ECM to reduce operator workload, as well as react precisely to driver
commands, we call it the Raptor Performance Management System (RPM).

DUAL SPARK PLUGS
Provides for more efficient combustion leading to increased fuel economy, reliability and cleaner emissions.

QUIET RIDE
The overhead cam engine design coupled with a cast iron engine block and exhaust manifolds makes for an engine that runs smoother and quieter. Experience a smooth purr instead of loud engine that prevents you from being able to hear one another when on the boat.

EMISSIONS BETTER THAN 4 STAR RATING
The combination of high-strength cast iron manifolds and our ultra quiet stainless steel tubular catalyzed exhaust is better at containing heat allowing the catalyst to perform with greater efficiency producing exhaust emissions that are better than the required 4 star rating.


SERVICEABILITY
The standard closed cooling system makes winterization a snap with self-draining manifolds and fewer components requiring water drain. With our easily accessible remote mounted oil filter, quick-drain oil system and hi-mounted oil fill, routine maintenance is painless. Our hi-mounted alternator, flame arrestor and fuse/relay box are not only easily accessible at the top of the engine but are under the engine’s beauty cover for extra protection. Dual, long-life spark plugs, not only improve combustion but also extend the spark plug service life to 300 hours.

CORROSION PROTECTION
Our 5-step state-of-the-art paint process, e-coated components and special coatings on non-paintable components keep the outside of the engine looking like new. The inside is protected by a standard, anode protected closed cooling system so there is no contact with corrosive environments. Components that do come in contact with corrosive environments are made of brass, copper stainless steel or cast iron to ensure longevity.

If you do plan to keep the boat a long time, like to do your own maintenance, the 345 is a classic small block Chevy engine with a proven past.

I personally run the 345 in my boat and I love it. If I was buying a new boat and planed to keep it long term, I would buy the Raptor due to its many upgrades over the 345.

[alec]

Thanks for the couple of responses. First, looking at the manual flow for the fact that if a 1/3" piece of steel breaks we have bigger issues to deal with. I have been on a couple Axis & Malibu's with surf gate (not the same, but a similar principle) and when I look at them, those are just three more things that can break down over time. It is really cool how advanced all these systems are becoming, I just don't think we will be good enough surfers to want to do transfers all the time. With the manual flow surf the pin really looked to be the only piece that might need changing down the road. I don't mind listing the boat just a little and this the manual allows myself (regular) and my wife (goofy) should clarify - goofy footed) to surf pretty painlessly.

mmandley thanks for all of those pieces. And you are right the better deal here right now is the 2014. Will I be dissapointed with the 345, it would be hard to be. Found a place to test drive both, now have to drive 5 hours, so we will see which works best for us. The dealer will be beefing up our trade in $2,500 (which is always nice) and the overall cost of the '14 is 10% less all in out the door. $65K for the '14, $71.5K for the '15. Is that a big enough difference to sway someone to go with the 345 over the raptor? They are both loaded, upgraded paint, dual axle trailer, all the stereo pieces, swivels racks, bimini, gps cruise, etc. Same exact boats, just one has the Raptor one has the 345. Also, what kind of weight do you need to put in your boat for a nice ropeless surfwave? I have heard some differences. Wakemakers had indicated to me to put two 750s in the rear lockers plus the 500 in the bow??? Feel like anything more in the rear lockers would be a little over kill at first.

So with the winterization piece is the Raptor going to be less expensive to winterize or will it just be easier for the local dealer to do that? Not that this is a huge deal, but I tend to work on my motorcycle engine and that is about it, don't really work on the boat that we have now, so likely won't work on the next one. So over ten years will that difference be even remotely big enough to sway further in one direction.

Appreciate any other insight anyone has. Thanks,

[KG's Supra24]

Wakemakers recommendation should be spot on. I wouldn't worry about the winterization piece, especially if you won't be doing the work.

The list above is essentially their marketing brochure. I'm pretty sure the 345 has the modified oil pan for excessive lean. The exhaust is tuned ... I'm not sure I'd call it a quite ride. The raptor I rode in sounded good but it wasn't quite. I have seen reports that the fuel consumption is lower on the raptor.

70k for a Mondo?!?!?

[alec]

Should clarify the pricing. Includes everything - boat, freight, dealer prep, plus the lovely 6.5% sales tax we get to pay in MN. So it is $61/$62k before tax on the '14 and $68K for the '15. Also for a comparative I priced out a 2015 Axis A22 and a T22 and those came back at $73-$75K (before tax, dealer prep, etc) and they were moderately optioned. Not full tilt like these two Mondos are. Boat prices are crazy though. Especially in comparison to a few years ago.

[mmandley]

The 345 does have a lot of goodies

From a Wolfman131 post..
Here are some of the outstanding features on the Assault 345:
•Air–Oil Separator - to prevent oil induction into the PCV - normal motors dump this extra oil back into the engine causing excessive oil burn, and potential longer term engine issues.
•Oversized 7 Quart oil pan with Baffling - This keeps the motor lubricated, even when it is titlted at extreme angles.
•Precision CNC machined billet aluminum pulleys provide greater tolerances and superior performance
•Serpentine belt - to grip better, and last longer.
•Water lines, cylinder head gaskets, fuel injector tips and the fuel rail are all made out of stainless steel - to provide an additional layer of protection against corrosion
•Top mount starters - help keep the starter out away from water in the bilge.
•High-flow cylinder head with straighter intake ports and a higher compression ratio- to deliver impressive horsepower.
•Roller valve lifters- for reduced friction and improved performance
•95 Amp Alternator - to power all of the "Extras" on today's performance boats.

That is a big price difference and for myself if I was going long term I would get the Raptor.
1 because its the newest and greatest on the market
2 because the Indmar switched from the 345 because they are no longer making the engine. Although its still a Chevy small block and they are a dime a dozen.

I have the 345 Surf engine in my Mojo, tons of power and i honestly have no complaints. So looking at your price difference my wallet leans on the 14 with a 345.

I think upkeep on the Raptor will be more expensive, with 16 spark plugs every 300 hours, closed cooling system means replacing the coolant and hoses every X hours. Winterizations might be more just because its a Raptor vs the 345, really depends on the dealer.

That is the advertising info on the Raptor but its pretty straight forward, only real thing the Indmar 345 has is the oil air separator info.

[mark540]

I was in your position about a month ago. This is how i ended up. I ordered it exactly like i wanted, and it is loaded. Visually the 14 and 15 are very close, only differences outside are gel coat stripes are narrower (accent color) on the 15. Inside there are a few differences. The dash is slightly different and the stereo is at the helm instead of the glove box, so the helm remote on the 14 is gone on the 15. The switch gear is now a toggle switch vs a button. These are all visual changes, but the motor is huge. I had the 345 in my 21v so it is not a direct comparison, but the 400 Raptor is crazy, it is quieter (again vs my 21v) and it is a huge hole shot and i had a 1235 prop on my Supra.

As far as auto flow, over the manual it is about $600-$700 over the manual or about 1% of the total boat price, from a resale value it should make it more desirable.

i went 15 to get exactly what i wanted, boat prices in general have gotten insane, and spending this much i didn't want to compromise on what it looked like or what it had in it.

forgot to add, when you look at engine upgrade packages, to gain typically 40 to 60 hp costs about $6000, that is about the difference in price between the 14 and 15.

[alec]

Thanks mark540. I am aware of the slight interior differences and am not too concerned either way. I have heard, spoke to a couple people about the Raptor, and they speak of it as if they just had a Porsche going 200 mph in a 1/2 mile drag strip. All have spoken crazy good about the new engine. So, if the '14 were spec'd exactly how you wanted it, plus a better trade ($2,500 extra), plus cheaper by $6,000 would you still go Raptor or would that be enough enticement to get you to pull the trigger on the '14? The '14 has litterally everything, in fact not sure what it doesn't have. Would probably forgoe the stereo upgrades initially if it were the '15.

[mark540]

Alec you are getting to the price point where it would make the 14 possibly a more attractive route. In my case, the 14 had less options and is not the color I want or even close (my ordered boat is almost all black, with black metal flake main) so for about the same price difference as you mention above i couldn't justify not getting it how i wanted. I ran with about 2600 lbs in my Supra and never felt it was underpowered, especially with the right prop.

Perspective wise i was originally looking at the 14 sc350's with the same motor as the 14 Mondo, but in the end the inability to fit the boat in my garage with the tower folded was a deal breaker, same deal with the 15 Mojo. So basically i had no issues going with the 345 motor again, but in my case trade value was equal, and the prices were not that different if you add in the items i put in the ordered boat vs. the in stock boat.

[That Guy]

I just ordered a new boat and considered this very same situation. In the end 10% savings would NOT be enough to sway me to the 14. 20%, yeah maybe, now we're talking. But I have a feeling the resale value from 14 to 15 will be greater than 10% any year. I'd want to minimize my potential losses as much as possible and I don't feel 10% would do that for me.

My .02

Where are you located BTW?