Surf tabs

[Boonejeepin]

I have lost another battle to mod fever. I love the ghetto gates on my XLV but I want to try a permanently mounted system. With the complex shape of the XLV hull I have ruled out permanently installed gates or a NSS style system. I hope the tabs work half as well as the gates. The only downside with the gates that I have found is storage while not in use and the minute it takes to remove and install.

I have some OEM surplus Mastercraft surf tabs, switch, and mounts on the way. The tabs will be controlled with a manual switch. http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/31/2b3e5e2669c45a103c07c51f3be4eed8.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/31/97b79fdee024329ba0835616d2b67c89.jpgI'll post progress pics when the parts arrive.

[mmandley]

Yup I suggest you take some video and pics of both sides while surfing, then do the upgrade and do the same again for comparison reasons.

You might even take notes of what you like and don't like about each system.

I'll be looking forward to your report.

[Boonejeepin]

I have a better idea. Come and see for yourself. 😀

[jstenger]

May I ask what you paid, and if there are any more available?

[Boonejeepin]

May I ask what you paid, and if there are any more available?

I paid just under $600 and the parts are available on EBay.

I hope it is $600 well spent but I won't know for sure until the parts arrive.

[jstenger]

Is the transom on the XLV flat like the Mojo/Mondo or curved like the LSV?

[jstenger]

I have lost another battle to mod fever. I love the ghetto gates on my XLV but I want to try a permanently mounted system. With the complex shape of the XLV hull I have ruled out permanently installed gates or a NSS style system. I hope the tabs work half as well as the gates. The only downside with the gates that I have found is storage while not in use and the minute it takes to remove and install.

I have some OEM surplus Mastercraft surf tabs, switch, and mounts on the way. The tabs will be controlled with a manual switch. http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/31/2b3e5e2669c45a103c07c51f3be4eed8.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/31/97b79fdee024329ba0835616d2b67c89.jpgI'll post progress pics when the parts arrive.
Did you see/order the 20' Lenco extension harnesses?

[Boonejeepin]

Is the transom on the XLV flat like the Mojo/Mondo or curved like the LSV?

Curved similar to the LSV. There should be just enough room to mount the tab base on the transom bottom edge before it curves.

It would be so much easier if it were flat like the Mojo/Mondo.

[Boonejeepin]

Did you see/order the 20' Lenco extension harnesses?

I sure did. I think they were $19.99 each. I also bought the MC upper mounts just in case their standoff/angle work better.http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/31/6c5401c691a02299bbea6460e1504511.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/31/f361b62d7ebb0707eb1511eabbe2f897.jpg

[Boonejeepin]

I saw this online. Which hull is this?

Does anyone know how this install turned out?

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/31/71c7e17b964c10bac032b5d5e1500189.jpg

[bergermaister]

I have a better idea. Come and see for yourself. ��

On my way!

I believe that blue one is an older LSV. 03?

[motosno963]

wish i could do this to the outback...

[jstenger]

I saw this online. Which hull is this?

Does anyone know how this install turned out?

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/31/71c7e17b964c10bac032b5d5e1500189.jpg
That install was done by Midwest Mastercraft.

http://www.waterskis.com/Surf-Tab-Insallation-s/620.htm

Http://www.midwestmastercraft.com

[Boonejeepin]

Past the point of no return. I hope to test tomorrow. Wish me luck!!!http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/12/6d7cb7ee515f6b18fc98739b21c57a27.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/12/bdf73e945a8c0436e001dfa5fdaabf20.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/12/b0bf45293bd8dc2def45aef0d897d528.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/12/8e01e0fcc72dba5d5cbd2b0ba8da95da.jpg

[bergermaister]

I have faith!

[Boonejeepin]

I really hope it works!!!

[Boonejeepin]

Interesting.... My surf tabs fall to a 12 degree angle based on current mounting position of the actuator lower mount. I am hopping that Jason from Wakemakers is right about 11-12 degrees being optimal.

[kaneboats]

Can't wait for the full report. Darn cool.

[Boonejeepin]

I have to connect the power and ground and zip tie the wires up.

I removed the stereo remote that I never use. I will have to get a trim plate to cover the old screw holes.http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/12/5063a81a3d5b53575cb0a9ace060a7e1.jpg

[wolff supra21v]

I am interested in hearing how these work.
I hope they help, so I do not feel like I am wasting my time with my system.

[Whitey]

Looks cool hope it works!

[Boonejeepin]

I am interested in hearing how these work.
I hope they help, so I do not feel like I am wasting my time with my system.

I know the feeling. I feel like I may have wasted time and money but there is only one way to find out. Crossing my fingers that this project is a success.

Drilling thought the transom was not as painful as I thought it would be.

[jmvotto]

Russ, looks great, did you minimize your surf platform?

[Boonejeepin]

Russ, looks great, did you minimize your surf platform?

Thanks! I cut down the surf platform last year. The tabs would work with factory swim platform if I spaced it up about an inch. Sticking with the smaller platform for now.

[jmvotto]

Which lenco kit did you get, those tabs look different on the site or did you modify to fit the xlv hull.?

[Boonejeepin]

Which lenco kit did you get, those tabs look different on the site or did you modify to fit the xlv hull.?

I boat an OEM surplus Mastercraft kit from Great Lakes Skipper and added a few random backers and a switch.http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/12/767ba6f62498bac40eb5c4d6e77b05fe.jpg

[jmvotto]

Can't wAit to see the results vs the ghetto gate.

[BrettLee3232]

Looks good! Let's see the video

[wolff supra21v]

That is a hell of a price I got double that in my kit. a little more options but a lot more money.

[Boonejeepin]

Not a first shot success. The surf side tab is too low and counteracting the offside tab too much. I am going to move the lower mount to bring the tab up when the actuator is retracted.

Hope to have better luck on the 2nd attempt.

[mmandley]

Not a first shot success. The surf side tab is too low and counteracting the offside tab too much. I am going to move the lower mount to bring the tab up when the actuator is retracted.

Hope to have better luck on the 2nd attempt.

This pains me man. I am glad your such a pioneer.

[trayson]

I would bet it will take some troubleshooting on the tab shape.

Since your M/C Gen 1, there have been a LOT of tab shapes. Personally, I like the shape of the centurion quick surf.

[Boonejeepin]

I would bet it will take some troubleshooting on the tab shape.

Since your M/C Gen 1, there have been a LOT of tab shapes. Personally, I like the shape of the centurion quick surf.

If moving the tab up when retracted does not completely solve the problem I may "laminate" another sheet of stainless in the shape of the Centurion tab.

This is a terrible picture but the tab is very close to flat with the hull and it needs to come up when retracted. Currently the lower mount is in the center of the tab (hard see the entire tab length and hard to tell what is tab and FEA in the pic.). I am going to move it rearward.http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/13/c273a16c122ad9abec9b938e31af14f4.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/13/bc737fd9933c583ca273ca6387eadb95.jpg

[jmvotto]

Did you test it out yet. Saw you were on your way to the Lake yesterday

[Boonejeepin]

Did you test it out yet. Saw you were on your way to the Lake yesterday

The results were not good. The tabs were too far down (close to flat) and interfering when in the retracted position. I am changing the mount locations to move the tabs further up when retracted and then I will retest. I have a feeling there is plenty of trial and error ahead of me. I still hope to find the right combination of weight, tab angle, tab shape, and tab size.http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/14/835750f9ac1f8124fedb93a83da71dde.jpg

[jstenger]

The results were not good. The tabs were too far down (close to flat) and interfering when in the retracted position. I am changing the mount locations to move the tabs further up when retracted and then I will retest. I have a feeling there is plenty of trial and error ahead of me. I still hope to find the right combination of weight, tab angle, tab shape, and tab size.http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/14/835750f9ac1f8124fedb93a83da71dde.jpg
You are going to lose down angle with the actuators near the end like that.

[Boonejeepin]

You are going to lose down angle with the actuators near the end like that.

You are correct. I will likely have to extend/lengthen the plate to make up for it . The tabs interfered too much when in the up position yesterday.

[jstenger]

You are correct. I will likely have to extend/lengthen the plate to make up for it . The tabs interfered too much when in the up position yesterday.
I think you need to move the top of the actuator up on the transom (to get the plate higher) and the bottom of the actuator closer to the hinge (to get a larger range of motion) since the plate is now higher in the up position.

[Boonejeepin]

I think you need to move the top of the actuator up on the transom (to get the plate higher) and the bottom of the actuator closer to the hinge (to get a larger range of motion) since the plate is now higher in the up position.

Sounds like good advice. Just can't bring myself to drill the transom for the top mount again.

[Boonejeepin]

Moved the lower actuator mount to pull the tabs out of the water further when retracted. Testing again tomorrow. Hoping for better results.http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/15/ae59185a03370447a857904c7532ab11.jpg

I also made a spacer to simulate the longer travel actuator. I'll swap that in while I am at the lake to see if the the additional travel helps or hurts the wave.http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/15/b29d2c74c46df034aa8c66131cc86dc4.jpg

[jstenger]

Moved the lower actuator mount to pull the tabs out of the water further when retracted. Testing again tomorrow. Hoping for better results.http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/15/ae59185a03370447a857904c7532ab11.jpg

I also made a spacer to simulate the longer travel actuator. I'll swap that in while I am at the lake to see if the the additional travel helps or hurts the wave.http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/15/b29d2c74c46df034aa8c66131cc86dc4.jpg
Does the longer travel actuator have the same closed length as the ones you have currently mounted?

[Boonejeepin]

Does the longer travel actuator have the same closed length as the ones you have currently mounted?

2 inches longer closed, I would have to move the tab side mount further rearward to maintain a good upward angle when retracted or move the upper mount up.

[Boonejeepin]

Tested again today with the new angles. The tabs did not interfere but didn't help as much as I would like.

On a positive note, the wave was awesome with the tab and ghetto gate combo. I did remove some offside weight.http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/16/be6bdc66f4f07dc5db6ba34b0221cbc9.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/16/905e694fc6c52b17b3a2f9123916877c.jpg

[jstenger]

Did you try it with and without the spacer?

[Boonejeepin]

Did you try it with and without the spacer?
Both. I found the best combo to be without the spacer. Although I was only playing with it for an hour or so.

[jmvotto]

Nice wave there Russ waist high...

[Boonejeepin]

I can't complain about wave height but I don't see my dream of a quick transfer happening.

[jmvotto]

I can't complain about wave height but I don't see my dream of a quick transfer happening.

I'm not sure any boat can do the quick transfer with the "optimal setup" sure you can move over the wake, which would be cool but with out the ballast it would lack at least one on the three, height length and push from a quick transfer on the fly just sayin....

[trayson]

I also made a spacer to simulate the longer travel actuator. I'll swap that in while I am at the lake to see if the the additional travel helps or hurts the wave.http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/15/b29d2c74c46df034aa8c66131cc86dc4.jpg

I like seeing this kind of creativity.


I'm not sure any boat can do the quick transfer with the "optimal setup" sure you can move over the wake, which would be cool but with out the ballast it would lack at least one on the three, height length and push from a quick transfer on the fly just sayin....

My friend has a MB F23 tomcat with retrofitted surf gates. The wave is pretty fantastic with just the factory ramfill ballast both sides + bow weight. If he were able to get his hands on the "fast" actuators used by Malibu in their gen2 surfgates (or maybe the "fast" HD actuators that I believe Supra uses for the Swell) then he'd have the tri-fecta. But as it is now, the gates just can't complete their full stroke quick enough to do a transfer trick.

[trayson]

Both. I found the best combo to be without the spacer. Although I was only playing with it for an hour or so.

What, have you given up boating?!?!?! it's been like 9 days w/o an update?!?!?!

[Boonejeepin]

What, have you given up boating?!?!?! it's been like 9 days w/o an update?!?!?!

Haha. Boating is my real passion, although I did pickup a new toy this week. A good friend convinced me that I needed a toy to beat the drought and the dropping water levels. His exact words were that there will never be a dirt drought in SoCal.http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/25/706cc1ada5c07f8891116d90dda419d4.jpg

As for the surf tabs. I haven't found them to be the solution that I hoped they would be. They help but nowhere near enough. I am going back to the future and strapping the ghetto gates on and adding more solid ballast. 500lbs showed up today in the mail truck.http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/25/3324f6151119b6ba0dfa39a11297cbff.jpg

Here is my wave with ghetto gates and tabs engaged. This is in about 15ft of water. Lake Elsinore is a shallow lake. http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/25/08569342df54dafce6a344d5c355e201.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/25/30d29f57e5228dad8b4a4cd641783d2e.jpg

[DOCDRS]

Sooooo, it seems to me that delaying the convergence of the wake and lifting of the contra lateral side is the desired goal? So the nautique system or that custom one that guy made up similar seems to be the way to go. You basically went about it the hard way, but confirming what nautique is doing......I really hate to say that as I am at SC fan. We need some university engineering students to study this for us...... Or some fluid dynamics physicist's

what if one were to add a trim tab component to a ghetto gate???????? Using the swim platform bracket as bracing?????

unless you have fast deploying actuators for side to side maneuvering......the ghetto system is a good to go style.......some what like the removable skyline pylon mimicking a fixed tower and barefoot boom all in one

[viking]

Haha. Boating is my real passion, although I did pickup a new toy this week. A good friend convinced me that I needed a toy to beat the drought and the dropping water levels. His exact words were that there will never be a dirt drought in SoCal.

Way to go! We use our rzr4 alot in the spring and fall. I have a plow and use mine to push snow (doubt you have that problem)? The Can Am is alot more comfortable and plush than the Polaris. Post up some pics of yourself enjoying it!! Maybe a new side-x-side thread is in order........

[wolfeman131]

Russ, saw this on fb and thought you would appreciate it.

http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd344/wolfeman131/image.jpg1.jpg (http://s530.photobucket.com/user/wolfeman131/media/image.jpg1.jpg.html)

[mmandley]

Russ, saw this on fb and thought you would appreciate it.

http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd344/wolfeman131/image.jpg1.jpg (http://s530.photobucket.com/user/wolfeman131/media/image.jpg1.jpg.html)

WOW hope thats already in the water, or you can be seriously over weighting the trailer lol.

Thats a good way to go straight to the bottom LOL

[Boonejeepin]

Russ, saw this on fb and thought you would appreciate it.

http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd344/wolfeman131/image.jpg1.jpg (http://s530.photobucket.com/user/wolfeman131/media/image.jpg1.jpg.html)

That is awesome!!!! I have not gone to that extreme (yet). I have 910lbs in solid ballast now and I don't have plans to add more.

[trayson]

how much would all that weigh?

[jmvotto]

based on Russ lead ballast, looks like 3750, from what I can count at 125 each for 30 bags. NO THANKS!!! don let your insurance rep ride in your boat like that :confused:

[trayson]

based on Russ lead ballast, looks like 3750, from what I can count at 125 each for 30 bags. NO THANKS!!! don let your insurance rep ride in your boat like that :confused:

Yeah, I've ridden in boats that have that much ballast and more, but removeable! My boat will have over 3k, but it sure is nice to drain it at the end of a set!

That poor trailer!

[jmvotto]

Yeah we have done 5 k in the mojo and like 4.5k in the xlv , no lead to speak of .

[Boonejeepin]

I relocated my actuators and get a whole lot of travel now. Up about 20 degrees and down about 15 degrees. Hoping to test soon and see some improvement.

I took the actuator mounting location idea from the Gosurfassist tabs.http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/02/afbb898bb86b73c01d8e38c60ec20d56.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/02/99c4018c618398eba4ecae0d1a7195c5.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/02/a6d2bbb3f78eb9e2ea096b2db9d9a3f2.jpg


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[jmvotto]

Looks good Russ, can't wait to see the results.

[trayson]

Way to go Russ. Keep pressing on with the innovation and improvement. I'm sure this will be the direction I go when the time comes. I'm content with my listed wave right now, so I see these as a way to tweak and improve, not as the sole way of creating a decent surf wave like I had to on my Supra.

Once you get the travel going, I look forward to when you consider playing around with tab shape... I think there's a lot to be gained there.


Also, I assume that once you get the final tab setup in place that you'll work on the relocation of the ratcheting transom tie down straps?

[Rakkasan187]

Very cool man! Hope it works out for ya.

[xBabyJesus]

Just wanted to say good job, and that I'm watching too for future XLV mods :) After surfing behind the '15 SG450, it's hard to go back to listed.

[ninedriver]

I'm curious..
Since you and others are installing the lenco actuators, why go the surf tab (below the hull) route instead of the gate (like Malibu) route? I'm assuming Malibu has a patent and that's why other mfgrs aren't doing it, but a boat owner fabrication/install could do whatever. Are the tabs supposed to work as well as or better than a gate?

[Boonejeepin]

I'm curious..
Since you and others are installing the lenco actuators, why go the surf tab (below the hull) route instead of the gate (like Malibu) route? I'm assuming Malibu has a patent and that's why other mfgrs aren't doing it, but a boat owner fabrication/install could do whatever. Are the tabs supposed to work as well as or better than a gate?

The complex curves on the XLV transom kept me away from a Malibu style gate. My fab skills are not that great and I never solved the issue of hinge placement with such drastic curves. http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/03/c8795227f01ddf67d98716680642e48f.jpg
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/03/e0e3cdd055025c7916887a1882715406.jpg
I can't wait to test and see if there is any improvement with the new actuator location.


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[ninedriver]

Ah yes, I haven't seen curves like that since...well anyway, very complex indeed. I'm definitely interested to see how your new setup works.

So, besides the complexity of the install, is the Malibu style gate better/worse/indifferent than the below tab design? Or for that matter, what about the Natique style. I've read plenty on here about how they work, delay convergence, but is any one better at producing a wave? Do the mfgrs have different ways of doing things because of patents? I'm curious because I'll definitely be tackling one of these mods and I'd like to do whichever one produces the best results. Thoughts anyone?

[moombadaze]

jeepin, looks like the tabs are in the direct path for tie down strap's, any idea how to solve that

[Boonejeepin]

I moved the lower mount. I may need to reinforce but it will work.http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/07/f5fb7f2b66e842799841b7c91b8ee7dc.jpg

I had limited time to test a large tab and it really rolls the boat over and creates a wave when deployed. I think I am heading in the right direction but I need to keep testing and tweaking.


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[98outback]

I would say you are going the right way. Look at the gosurfassist website and some of the YouTube videos that actually show the tab on the boat. They are large compared to the basic trim tab.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/07/4448fa9e496d8f03f9e8d87c8292e246.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/07/e77e932c366c4ec4226d0ef08e21779c.jpg
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/07/bccc94a23a9ced388009a9d148a6beff.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/07/358a742b73d756360b914457a19b5387.jpg

[Boonejeepin]

It worked!!!! I am able to ride out transfers behind my XLV.https://vimeo.com/130604064


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[trayson]

It worked!!!! I am able to ride out transfers behind my XLV.https://vimeo.com/130604064


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That is FANTASTIC. I'm surprised you can transfer the wave that quick with the "non-fast" standard actuator.

What did you use for your BIG tab shape model? Did you pattern it off something like the go surf assist? or ??? they are more squared, so not a replica of the Centurion/Supreme quicksurf. Could be similar to the MC gen2... Do tell.

[Boonejeepin]

I wish I could say that I had a well thought out plan. The truth is that I bought a 1/2inch cutting board and cut it in half, mounted to the existing Mastercraft tabs (gen1) and removed the corners following the angled contour for the existing tab. From watching the tabs in the water I knew this missing angled angles section was there to keep the tab out of the water flow on the surf side when in the up position. It just happened to work well. Mounting the actuators just above the trim tab hinges has allowed for extended travel in both the up and down motion. I remounted the actuators based on the Gosurfassist mounting location. I think the new position is the best you can do with the XLV transom.

The tabs are also completely out of the wakeboard wake when in the up position. I really didn't want the tabs to effect anything other than surfing.

I had the boat evenly weighted side to side but rear heavy. I did not play with the weight distribution but I am sure I can find a more optimized setup with time and experimentation. To date the cleanest wave is still the ghetto gate wave but the tab wave with the ability to transfer is very fun due to the novelty. Interestingly enough the goofy wave seems to be better than the regular wave with both setups.




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[trayson]

I'm honestly kind of surprised that you're tabs are able to transfer the clean wave from side to side so quickly with the normal (not fast) version of the Lenco actuators. I know that Malibu in 2014 went to a "fast" version of the lenco actuators (that they won't sell to anyone but malibu) so that they could so the fast switching (with their 3 beeps and lights to signal).

When you get a chance, can you post a video of a tab out of the water going from fully retracted to fully deployed? I'm really curious of the time it takes the tabs to complete their full stroke.

Likewise, can you post a video of one tab going from fully deployed to fully retracted while the other is going from fully retracted to fully deployed simultaneously? (i.e. post a video of your tabs as you'd use them to do your transfer trick, but out of the water.)

[kaneboats]

Looking good, Russ!

[wolff supra21v]

I have not been able to test my set up very well due to weather and kids this year. I just cut and bent 16"x16" tabs with the sides bent down kind of like a fin to match the go surf. can you post a pic of the tab and the size you are adding now.

thanks that transfer looks awesome.

[Boonejeepin]

I have not been able to test my set up very well due to weather and kids this year. I just cut and bent 16"x16" tabs with the sides bent down kind of like a fin to match the go surf. can you post a pic of the tab and the size you are adding now.

thanks that transfer looks awesome.

This is what I am using currently. I still plan to test other sizes and shapes.http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/15/d43468d57fd4070c20445a61816e99e5.jpg


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[moombadaze]

Any new updates, been a couple months, really interested in your results. and have a question, how does the boat turn now with the tabs compared to the gate

[kaneboats]

Yeah, I tried out Stacy's surf gate and while it really improved the wake for surfing, the length and the push, it was a lot harder to steer the boat.

[gregski]

Thanks! I cut down the surf platform last year.
Did you cut your factory platform? What did you do to seal/dress the cut edge?

[trayson]

Did you cut your factory platform? What did you do to seal/dress the cut edge?

He didn't cut the factory platform. He got a sheet of HDPE and hacked off the corners, glued on hydroturf with contact cement, and screwed it onto the OEM platform brackets.

I did basically thing but I added grab handles to mine since I had them from a previous project I never did on my old boat.

[Leebo]

To date the cleanest wave is still the ghetto gate wave but the tab wave with the ability to transfer is very fun due to the novelty.



Is this still true? You were talking abt additional mods and i'm wondering if a different plate or directional fins get you a better wave than the gate.

I just built a gate out of plywood and am testing it today but if this gets a similar or better wave, it will be added to the winter ballast pump upgrade. Thx!



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