The basics of Surf Systems (and platform modifications)

[trayson]

I've had some questions from people that are newer to the surf system game, so I'll start a thread here to hopefully answer some questions and help out more than just one person.

What is a surf system?
A surf system is any device that's added to your boat that operates on the non-surf side to delay the convergence of the two wakes coming off the back of your boat. By delaying the convergence, it cleans up the wave on the surf side and lengthens the pocket. It also has the tendency to allow you to weight your boat evenly (or more evenly) as opposed to slamming the rear corner. When you add a surf system device, there's an inverse relationship between the angle to the hull at which it deploys and the length of the blade/tab. (for example, a surfgate is easily a foot an a half with a shallow angle {~20 degrees} while the NSS is only 3" but is at a 90 degree angle to the hull)

Why would you want a surf system?
The ability to evenly weight the boat allows for a more comfortable experience for the driver and passengers. It also allows for quick changes from regular to goofy because you're not having to drain ballast, move ballast and refill ballast. Often a surf system will allow you to run less overall weight and still maintain a clean, surfable wave. Sometimes a surf system is used to clean up or lengthen the wave.

What are the drawbacks of a surf system?
Many people are adverse to making permanent modifications to their boat. If you're going to do the direction of a temporary system, then you've got something that you have to figure out how to attach and stow when not in use. You've got to have a little DIY knowhow and be willing to fabricate and EXPERIMENT.

Most will attest that to get the absolute BEST wave period, that there's "no replacement for displacement". Simply put, MORE WEIGHT is typically hard to beat when it comes to getting the BEST wave you could get. That said, life is about tradeoffs and those of us with surf systems are using them to get a good/great wave while simultaneously making things better as far as boat drivability, fuel consumption, convenience, etc.

What surf systems are out there?
There are a handful of surf systems out there, and most of them have been copied or retrofitted in some way or another.

1) Malibu/Axis Surf Gate.
http://theskimonster.com/files/theskimonster/ckfinder/images/Malibu-Surf-Gate-Deployed.jpeg
This is the original. it's a gate on the side of the boat that deploys at around a 20 degree angle. They are powered by a Lenco trim tab actuator and are basically functioning as a sideways trim tab. in the most recent 2014 versions, they have been upgraded with faster actuators so the gates will deploy/retract in about 3 seconds, allowing transfer tricks from regular to goofy and back.

2) Natique Surf System (NSS) {also used by Pavati}
http://www.nautique.com/img/nss/feature-wakeplate-large.jpg
The NSS is a blade that is deployed on the edge of the hull. It extends about 3" out and about 3/4" to 1" down. It had varying levels of adjustability to change the wave from surf to skim. It is likewise power actuated and enables on the fly side to side transfers.

3) Supra Swell (Also MB Switch and sort of Mastercraft Gen2 surf system)
http://www.marine-products.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/SURF-CLEAN-CUSTOM-SHAPED-WAVES-WITH-SUPRA-SWELL.jpg
Supra stepped into the game by putting special shaped trim tabs on each side of the BOTTOM of the transom. Supra and MB systems will actually deploy a trim tab fully horizontal on the opposite of the surf side. Mastercraft does the same type of thing, but I don't think their tabs go as far down (so they're accordingly longer).

4) Moomba Flow
http://www.idahowatersports.com/shop/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/2014-05-02-15.09.jpg
Moomba is kind of unique in that they stepped up with a manually actuated surf system. It's a blade that can be deployed in 4 different settings from more outward to more downward. It pivots with a spring loaded locking pin.

What system is the best?
Honestly, all of the systems have their advantages and disadvantages. Each manufacturer will praise their own system. Some offer adjustment of the wave, some offer simplicity, some offer a price advantage. But all of them are attempting to do the same thing: Delay convergence of the wakes coming off the rear of the boat.

What DIY systems have been created to mimic/retrofit what the new boats are getting?
Keep in mind that some of the boat manufacturers have filed for patents on their systems. And many of the boat manufacturers have copied other people's systems or made knockoff's anyway. I am not a lawyer and can't advise what's okay and what's not okay when leveraging someone else's ideas. But I guess I will say that you're less likely to encounter problems if you don't try to sell retrofitted surf systems that greatly resemble something one of the boat companies has a patent on.

The first system to be retrofitted was of course the surf gate. There are many iterations of this that have been done. You can search on these terms and find lots of write-ups that have been done on these. The first two are automated and permanent, the last two are manual and able to be taken off when not in use.

Poor Man's Gate
Teak Gate
Cornrickey Surf gate
Ghetto Gate (note, there are versions of this that come out at an angle to the hull like the Malibu surf gate, and versions that come straight out as an extension of the hull. Both work but the straight ones tend to be longer)


A few of us have retrofitted an NSS style system onto our boats. I chose to go this way because the rear hull of my boat is basically flat and it would allow me to have something that's out of the way when not in use that I DON'T have to take on or off. This is a manually actuated system with blades that slide out sideways from the hull. It's made from HDPE and stainless bolts. The install on this is more time consuming than some and materials aren't too bad but are more than some of the basic designs. It's most certainly permanent and required drilling quite a few holes in my hull.
My write-up: https://forum.moomba.com/showthread.php?24375-Trayson-s-DIY-quot-Supra-Surf-System-quot-(SSS)-modeled-after-the-NSS

There are always going to be critics about the extra force/strain that's being put on your hull. All I can say is think it though and install things as robustly as you can. Obviously, if you wreck your hull, it's not my fault and I take no responsibility! Ha!

I know there have been a handful of retrofits of surf tabs. I mean, all you really have to do is get a trim tab kit and mount it up. I think the most effective designs are those that deploy fully downward like Supra Swell, and not many people have been able to fab up the extra bracing/reinforcement for the trim tab actuators... yet.

Which system should you try to retrofit?

Really, I can't answer that for you. Again, you have to determine your goals.
What is the shape of your hull that you'll be installing the system on?
Do you want adjustability?
Do you want it automated?
Is cost of the project a big factor?
Are you okay with something permanent?
Do you want quick side to side changeovers?
Do you want something that doesn't require being taken off and stowed when not in use?
How handy are you at fabrication?


Swim platform effects
I'll briefly touch on the effects of swim platform on the surf wave. In short, if your platform is dragging in the surf wave as it comes off the back of your hull, that's typically bad. The worst is when you have a fiberglass platform with a big lip that's cutting into the wave. This will typically rob the wave of power and make it less clean.

The solution is simple. Have a platform that is smooth on the bottom and best case scenario, NOT dragging in your wave.

If you have a teak platform, you can trim it. If you have a fiberglass platform, you'll likely just replace it. Some have made them out of teak, or wood coated in fiberglass, or out of HDPE, or even textured HDPE (Like Grip-X). the basic shape needed is a trapezoid where the corners of the platform that would ordinarily drag in the wave are cut off. (like cutting the corners off the rectangle of the platform).


I hope this article gives some overview and insight into why a surf system might be attractive and the things you need to start thinking about when deciding if and how you might put one of these on your boat.

Happy Surfing!

[sivs1]

This is perfect. I am looking at all my options now to determine what way to go. I have a good pocket but it is not long. Trying to add more weight, but the wife needs to be comfortable driving. Thanks!

[kaneboats]

Nice writeup Trayson. It would take hours to track all of that down. Filled in some holes for me.

[trayson]

This is perfect. I am looking at all my options now to determine what way to go. I have a good pocket but it is not long. Trying to add more weight, but the wife needs to be comfortable driving. Thanks!

From a "try it before you buy it" perspective, the recent "ghetto gate" creations seem to be the quickest, easiest, and cheapest to do and are also temporary.

Personally, I was able to leverage someone else pioneering the NSS style system so I just jumped in and committed. But for someone just wanting to try it out, I'd say Ghetto gate seems the most straight forward.

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/08/18/8a0617ea1bcd88e1691b7302dcd9b037.jpg

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n17/deep808beet/IMG_20140628_062256_zpsaf022c59.jpg

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img39/9098/2qtd.jpg

[trayson]

Nice writeup Trayson. It would take hours to track all of that down. Filled in some holes for me.

Thanks. I've been obviously researching this from the beginning and have followed it pretty closely. I tried to cover it as there's a lot going on, and things continue to be invented every week.

In some respects the people that wait tend to have the best opportunity for results because they can leverage the trial and error of others. Myself, like others will typically implement a system and stick with it.

In hindsight, there are some things I'd do differently with mine (like make my blades out of black HDPE so they disappear more visually). But overall, I'm quite satisfied.

[5:00]

Trayson thanks for putting this together! I have done a lot of searching around but haven't come up with anything that really explains things from top to bottom. Glad you have been at it.

I am guessing the wake convergence is trying to keep the wake created by the side of the hull from converging with the wake created by the bottom of the V hull for as long as possible? That is what I am gathering from the Ghetto Gates you are showing in the pics.

[trayson]

Trayson thanks for putting this together! I have done a lot of searching around but haven't come up with anything that really explains things from top to bottom. Glad you have been at it.

I am guessing the wake convergence is trying to keep the wake created by the side of the hull from converging with the wake created by the bottom of the V hull for as long as possible? That is what I am gathering from the Ghetto Gates you are showing in the pics.

Well, the wave is created from forces coming off the bottom and side of each corner. so for simplicity, we'll talk about it as coming off just the sides of your hull. if they're coming off the hull equally, they meet in the middle and create a lot of turbulence. it looks like a big giant mess of whitewater with no gates/blades. When you put out a gate or a blade on the non-surf side, you're slowing that wave down and it's meeting the centerline of the boat farther back from the stern.

What this does is allow for the surfside wave to develop more fully and in turn be longer and cleaner/smoother. to some extent delaying the non surf side wake will actually send it under the surfside wake and boost it up and make it a little bigger. (I'm not 100% sure of that theory, just seems to be my observation).

I'm not an expert in hydrodynamics, but that's my understanding. basically delay one of the wakes so the turbulence is farther back and the surf side is as long and smooth as possible because it's not getting affected by the other wake as soon.

[5:00]

That makes sense once you picture everything going on from the transom on back. That really ties things together. I really can't wait to give this a shot. Unfortunately it will be next spring at this point but it will give me time to think and watch what others are doing.

[csm]

Great write-up. Personally, I'm torn between the flow, and a gate like Boonjeepin did. I like my wave when I'm listed, but would like a little longer pocket for more area to play. The convenience of easier driving is also nice. I just haven't seen enough evidence of the flow for LSVs, so leaning towards a gate.

[cornrickey]

I haven't come across any system that improves the pocket specifically. Pocket appears to be a result of front to back weight distribution and more specifically, the setting of the wake plate. At least this is what I have experienced with my gates and it appears that the other versions are experiencing the same. Using less weight in the stern enables you to use less weight in the front.

[trayson]

I haven't come across any system that improves the pocket specifically. Pocket appears to be a result of front to back weight distribution and more specifically, the setting of the wake plate. At least this is what I have experienced with my gates and it appears that the other versions are experiencing the same. Using less weight in the stern enables you to use less weight in the front.

I guess maybe a better way for me to have said it might have been to say that the surf system allows the pocket to be developed without interference from the other wave. So maybe it's not improving the pocket per se, it's taking away something that make it bad (the other wave).

[cornrickey]

Yup. I still would like to lengthen mine but I'm starting to think it is a limitation of the hull but when I'm driving I'm always impressed with its depth and when on on the board I think it's short.

[jmvotto]

great write up.

thanks for the information.

[beej77r]

Great write up! It really is interesting all the different systems that are out there, and all the "Aftermarket" gates that are out there. I am not sure if any of you have seen these guys yet, but I have been emailing them to see if they can get something made for me. I can get a decent enough wave, I just need it to be a little longer... anyway, so far dealing with these guys/gals, have been great. I will post up more if and when i get it.

http://wickedwakesurf.com

[Boonejeepin]

Great write up! It really is interesting all the different systems that are out there, and all the "Aftermarket" gates that are out there. I am not sure if any of you have seen these guys yet, but I have been emailing them to see if they can get something made for me. I can get a decent enough wave, I just need it to be a little longer... anyway, so far dealing with these guys/gals, have been great. I will post up more if and when i get it.

http://wickedwakesurf.com
You can easily make something similar out of HDPE if they can't help with your hull. I made something very similar. Spent about $140 and 2 hours in total to put it together.http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/08/27/808057169b1609ba4ce715d0b1473427.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/08/27/3fd679664915d82dce2e86d6b84609fa.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/08/27/5cd394ed178b31eee86fc156af5906b9.jpg

[jmvotto]

Great write up! It really is interesting all the different systems that are out there, and all the "Aftermarket" gates that are out there. I am not sure if any of you have seen these guys yet, but I have been emailing them to see if they can get something made for me. I can get a decent enough wave, I just need it to be a little longer... anyway, so far dealing with these guys/gals, have been great. I will post up more if and when i get it.

http://wickedwakesurf.com

Just checked it out. Are they doing other boats than Mailbu and Axis according to their website...

Weird after looking at russ ghetto gate I was wondereing how to fit one on my existing platform.... very close to what I envisioned

[5:00]

Just checked it out. Are they doing other boats than Mailbu and Axis according to their website...

Weird after looking at russ ghetto gate I was wondereing how to fit one on my existing platform.... very close to what I envisioned

Wow that looks great! Do you have any pics in the light and with it off? How long is that front to back?

[mikenehrkorn]

Just checked it out. Are they doing other boats than Mailbu and Axis according to their website...

Weird after looking at russ ghetto gate I was wondereing how to fit one on my existing platform.... very close to what I envisioned

They have a few pics of a version on an LSV in the testimonials, but I agree with Russ -- seems you could do the same yourself pretty easily. IMO, Russ' version looks to more sturdy and structurally sound.

[jmvotto]

Russ, does that 140 include the new platform mod?

[jmvotto]

They have a few pics of a version on an LSV in the testimonials, but I agree with Russ -- seems you could do the same yourself pretty easily. IMO, Russ' version looks to more sturdy and structurally sound.

I think that is a Malibu lsv:confused::sad:

[mikenehrkorn]

I think that is a Malibu lsv:confused::sad:

You're right, I didn't look at the pic closely enough. Regardless, I still think Russ' version is better. :)

[Boonejeepin]

Russ, does that 140 include the new platform mod?

$140 is just for the ghetto gate portion. HDPE gets a little spendy.

[mikenehrkorn]

$140 is just for the ghetto gate portion. HDPE gets a little spendy.

Look at the third pic of the Malibu that trayson posted........that version using just 2x4s and plywood could probably be done for less than $10. Or maybe nothing if you have that scrap lumber already available.

Of course it wouldn't really last like the HDPE would, but you could use the lumber to get the setup you liked and then transfer the design to the HDPE for your permanent solution. I think that's the way that I'm going to go.

[Boonejeepin]

Look at the third pic of the Malibu that trayson posted........that version using just 2x4s and plywood could probably be done for less than $10. Or maybe nothing if you have that scrap lumber already available.

Of course it wouldn't really last like the HDPE would, but you could use the lumber to get the setup you liked and then transfer the design to the HDPE for your permanent solution. I think that's the way that I'm going to go.

I see no reason why that wouldn't work.

It may not last 10 years but it will certainly work for a while.

[wolfeman131]

wake enhancement devices have been around for a lot longer than most know. This was offered as an option on Centurion boats a number of years back

http://switchbladewake.com/

[trayson]

Great write up! It really is interesting all the different systems that are out there, and all the "Aftermarket" gates that are out there. I am not sure if any of you have seen these guys yet, but I have been emailing them to see if they can get something made for me. I can get a decent enough wave, I just need it to be a little longer... anyway, so far dealing with these guys/gals, have been great. I will post up more if and when i get it.

http://wickedwakesurf.com

I guess if you can't build it yourself, then having these guys fab it might be okay. I'd never pay someone to do what I could easily do myself though. HDPE is really easy to work with. And making it out of wood could be done for a fraction of the cost and I bet a wooden one would easily last many seasons.

Honestly, ALL they are doing is just selling the "ghetto gate" idea.

[5:00]

They aren't making it for the Moomba anyway.

[beej77r]

Actually they will make for any boat, I am waiting to hear back from them now.

I agree, It does look simple to make, but I don't have the time to build anything right now.

[cornrickey]

Had anyone gotten a price on these?

[sandm]

wake enhancement devices have been around for a lot longer than most know. This was offered as an option on Centurion boats a number of years back

http://switchbladewake.com/

true, but ask any dealer that sold a lot of boats and they will tell you that it was not a great device for wakesurfing(topic at hand in this thread), at least according to the 2 dealers we had in the area. they sold them to guys that wanted a decent wakeboard wake on a boat that really had a surf hull. reason why they are not being copied today.

[5:00]

Actually they will make for any boat, I am waiting to hear back from them now.

I agree, It does look simple to make, but I don't have the time to build anything right now.

Let us know how it goes.

[beej77r]

price quote for me was $225 that does not include shipping. They recently did a 2009 OBV, don't know who got it if they were on here or not. Hell if it gives me another 2 foot of pocket that would be awsome. Plus I really like the idea of weighting the boat evenly instead of listing so much on one side.
I ended up sending them pics of my transom (all sides to include swim deck attached and off). They wanted a good side shot of the boat to get the curvature of the transom. Someone asked the question of how they attach it. you have three options. you can drill holes in your platform and bolt it to your swim deck. 2.) you can get a ratchet strap and secure it. 3) i guess there is some sort of clamp that they recommend that you could do.
It would all depend on how intrusive you want to go with your boat. I will keep everyone posted as i get more details and when ever i get it.

[cornrickey]

Interesting. I don't feel bad at all charging $350 for mine when it's adjustable and more factory like.

[trayson]

Interesting. I don't feel bad at all charging $350 for mine when it's adjustable and more factory like.

I've followed your system and seen basically the ghetto gate that wickedwave is selling. I'd take yours over theirs for sure.

[cornrickey]

Thanks buddy

[sivs1]

Was at the dealer yesterday and we started talking about adding Flow to my LSV. Installed and warrantied through dealer would run me $2,125. Makes $350 seem like a walk in the park.

I guess my concern with the Surf Gate is the platform really isn't designed to carry that much pressure, would like to see long term results from the Ghetto Gate before I decide to go that direction.

[reeder]

I contacted wickedwave as well, I'm just curious more than anything. My hull would be the same as yours Beej77 so pretty interested to see if you do get it and if it will indeed lengthen the pocket. Same as you, no problem with wave shape and height just need a little longer pocket, especially on goofy side.

[jmvotto]

I tried to email them and the contact info was bad, so I gave up in lieu of the ghetto gate in progress.

[saskie99]

Gonna give the ghetto gate build a try this weekend. I am planning on a mock up wood model and then I will build one this winter out of hdp, if it work great. I all ready have a great surf wake so I sure hope this doesnt make it any worse. I actually don't care if it any better I would just like to not have to lean the boat and I am pretty sure I have enough ballast 3000 lbs to make it happen. I will take some pics this weekend.
I am not going to angle my gate just make an extension of the hull style.

[saskie99]

I was gonna post some pictures of the wave that I was able to create using my one hour contrasted ghetto gate, but I am again unable to upload them and I have made them as small as possible. I was very impressed with how big the wave was, I don't feel it was any bigger than I ride all the time but the pocket was a bit further back which was nice and the boat was level. I didn't have to ask people to move and all sit on one side which was cool.
So now this fall I need to build one that looks a bit nicer and will be more functional and reversible to either side.

[bergermaister]

Did you try a photobucket (or similar) account instead of attachments in the forum?

Would really like to see how you did this with the swim platform if yours is stock/factory still.

[saskie99]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/23/536368ccb8ddef465d531127f10f873c.jpg

This is a pic with the gate installed and 750s 2/3rds full, full mid ballast and full ibs. 4 adults in the boat. Wake plate most of the way up. Boat level.

[saskie99]

My platform is totally stock. I don't have picture of it from looking down but from the side on my lift. http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/23/2b73f17dbff45cfba6fb76ab12c414b1.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/23/ee89ed653a62c4166f3aa97fbd0c6d3a.jpghttps://vimeo.com/106982790

[saskie99]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/23/38ff1524c527f470ba0cdbb4fb830044.jpg
Was right around 10.7 mph

[saskie99]

As you can see from the picture it is totally ghetto, took me and hour to make out of an old table. It need to be 3 inches taller to stop water from flowing over it when heavily weighted. But the concept works just fine. I didn't angle the gate out at all to help with less pressure from the water on my platform ( my engineering buddy gave me this advice) I also made it 30 inches long and I think about 34-36 would be better also. The rachet strap help it in place with no problems. we used it for about 2 hours with no issues.
Overall I was very impressed with how everything worked. I will say that I had the wake plate higher than usual and the nose of the boat was a little higher in the air (due to more weigh in the back). I think once I get a better version built I will be able to fine tune all the details. I am very picky when it comes to my surf wave….. so its gonna have to be perfect!

[slipperyrockTKE300]

is it possible to cut the gate symmetrically (shape of hull in center) so it can be used on port and starboard side?

[jmvotto]

doubt it , have to make one for each side.

I think it would drag in the wave

[saskie99]

I think you can one gate work for both sides, there is not that much contour to the hull that would affect the water coming around the end of the gate to make a difference. I will try it and report back with my findings.

[slipperyrockTKE300]

"I will try it and report back with my findings"

that would be awesome.

I'm sure if you can make the gate equal height from the mount in the center, it should work on both sides of the boat.

[Boonejeepin]

"I will try it and report back with my findings"

that would be awesome.

I'm sure if you can make the gate equal height from the mount in the center, it should work on both sides of the boat.

Would work if the gate was really tall or transom was flat. Would have to do something like this for the blade on the XLV since there are some complex curves.http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/25/a8a9bd7e72f4e6d3e3492fbc0cb9c5a6.jpg

[slipperyrockTKE300]

or make the blade 2x as wide and have the hull cutout a mirror image on the one end. Move the mount to the center line of the blade.

Nah, on second thought that wouldn't work - I like your idea.

Perhaps a "cap" could be slid over one end to square it off.

[Boonejeepin]

or make the blade 2x as wide and have the hull cutout a mirror image on the one end. Move the mount to the center line of the blade.

Nah, on second thought that wouldn't work - I like your idea.

Perhaps a "cap" could be slid over one end to square it off.

My idea was exactly the same as your first statement. Blade 2x wide as flipped mirror image of hull with platform mount in the center.

[cornrickey]

When I was r&ding mine I cut mine square and put a swim noodle split down the middle over the stem end to fill the gap and keep water from shooting up. It doesn't take much to stop it.

[mikenehrkorn]

Or maybe a piece of weather stripping that would conform to the smaller gaps could be used??

[slipperyrockTKE300]

swim noodle and/or weather stripping and cut the gate square - excellent ideas!!

this thing then could be cut wider, mount in center and be flipped for use on both sides.

Think were on to something here.

[Boonejeepin]

swim noodle and/or weather stripping and cut the gate square - excellent ideas!!

this thing then could be cut wider, mount in center and be flipped for use on both sides.

Think were on to something here.

Would certainly work on most boats. Wish the XLV was not so curvy. A swim noodle would not fill the gaps.http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/25/a281e75e6cc7e13734df441b59fca17d.jpg

[Boonejeepin]

Introducing Velcro Gate.

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/25/fcbe337806121c355fb533c102955a3a.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/25/ab9b497c966d9938426f4f11a636c829.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/25/0eff98b21ca5ae4cb95347f9d365abba.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/25/ae62fc6412fd1f6ebcd05e8540e55e80.jpg

[bergermaister]

Wow. Maybe a little ironic they're showing this on a non-surf gate Malibu?

I would really like to see in water video of this thing. Talk about simple. Nice find Russ!

[Boonejeepin]

Video on website

http://www.wakesurfshaper.com

[trayson]

Video on website

http://www.wakesurfshaper.com

The dangling surf rope was annoying! get that rope out of there!

[saskie99]

wow this is a pretty cool idea as well!

[reeder]

I just can't see that thing staying on for any amount of time with just velcro strips but maybe I'm wrong?

[jmvotto]

I just can't see that thing staying on for any amount of time with just velcro strips but maybe I'm wrong?
I agree or it's going to ruin the finish, plus it looks like ass when you remove the wedge.

[slipperyrockTKE300]

Velcro does come in many colors and the adhesive comes off fiberglass without the need of chemicals. It's like those fake Buick stick-on hood vents you can get at auto parts stores.

I think the force of the water against that wedge may keep it in place....may have to do some readjustment if you have the boat in reverse for very long

[sivs1]

think it is a good idea, quick, easy and probably a lot cheaper than the other options. My question is this, doesn't it seem to be too low in the water to do much good? When my LSV is weighted down the rub rail is just about at water line.

[bergermaister]

If you're equally weighted and not listed much or at all then it wouldn't have to be to high. Part of the beauty of the gates/tabs/blades.

[trayson]

think it is a good idea, quick, easy and probably a lot cheaper than the other options. My question is this, doesn't it seem to be too low in the water to do much good? When my LSV is weighted down the rub rail is just about at water line.


If you're equally weighted and not listed much or at all then it wouldn't have to be to high. Part of the beauty of the gates/tabs/blades.

What Berg said. when you're equally weighted you're not slamming the crap out of ONE corner only. the whole bottom of the boat is more in the water, but the TWO corners aren't anywhere close to being as deep in the water as the ONE was before when listed.

Remember there are TWO reasons to have a surf system. 1) to clean up the wave and have a longer pocket. 2) to be able to weight the boat more evenly and have the benefits that come from that (drivability, non-listed boat, less weight, less speed)

[slipperyrockTKE300]

price on the Velcro wake shaper is $600.

wonder if that thing is just a hunk of foam rubber with some type of epoxy coating.

[sivs1]

$600? that's crazy, was thinking I could mock one up out of scrap plywood I have laying around, after all it's just a triangle, right? I like the idea of more even weight, being able to easily switch between regular and goofy riders has become an issue for us.

[slipperyrockTKE300]

that thing has got to be pretty light or the Velcro won't hold it.

Velcro definitely would not hold a wood wedge for very long.

More I look at pictures, the more I think that thing is foam rubber or styrofoam on the inside. Can't tell if the shell is hard or flexible, but I thought I saw an area where the covering had a drip run.

[trayson]

that thing has got to be pretty light or the Velcro won't hold it.

Velcro definitely would not hold a wood wedge for very long.

More I look at pictures, the more I think that thing is foam rubber or styrofoam on the inside. Can't tell if the shell is hard or flexible, but I thought I saw an area where the covering had a drip run.

it says right on their website it's made from Fiberglass.


The Wake Surf Shaper is a first of its kind, no drill mounting, removable and multiple side use device able to produce that perfect wake surfing wave for any boat.

Made out of molded fiberglass, and can be done in multiple colors to match your boat.

The Wake Surf Shaper changes the wake behind the boat making it perfect for wake surfing. Eliminating almost all of the white wash and spray coming off the wake. Improving your wake surfing no matter your skill level.


http://www.wakesurfshaper.com/services.html

[slipperyrockTKE300]

yes, I saw that.

Probably styrofoam core (foam rubber is rather heavy) with a fiberglass shell.

$75 worth of material, selling price of $600

I'm in the wrong business!

[jmvotto]

Three cutting boards from SAMs for 24 bucks cut into triangle and 10 bucks of industrial Velcro from lowes.

Done.

[slipperyrockTKE300]

hmmmm....interesting.

any idea what the dimensions of these cutting boards are and what material they are made of?

[jmvotto]

15 by 20 1/2 thick, I made my ghetto gate out of it, I think it's HDPE, it's solid.

http://www.samsclub.com/sams/bakers-chefs-commercial-cutting-board-15-x-20/126035.ip?navAction=

[slipperyrockTKE300]

awesome Joe - thx.

I didn't realize you had made a ghetto gate - could you post pictures of yours - or post a link to photos.

e

[jmvotto]

awesome Joe - thx.

I didn't realize you had made a ghetto gate - could you post pictures of yours - or post a link to photos.

e

Ed, I posted the pics over in the ghetto gate section, the xlv has a funky transom shape, I have not tested it yet , but I copied russ's design using the OEM non surf platform.

[slipperyrockTKE300]

Joe, looks good!!

Bet your anxious to get it wet.

[jmvotto]

yes, we have been surfing my buddies Mojo at a lake closer than mine, 5000 lbs and the wave is nice. gonna have to make the trek to my house to test soon.

[beej77r]

So I recieved my wickedwakesurf (surf gate) last week. Was able to finish putting it together and install it on my boat.
here is what we found out yesterday being on the water.

Boat- 2006 Outback V
water- choppy due to wind
water temp 67- air temp 68.
boat speed- 12-12.5 mph

Started off testing with this ballast

750's both locker, 400 in the walk way, about 500-600lbs up front.
with driver, my wife on passenger and me moving around the boat, weight definately made a difference on where it was placed. The wake was better still heavy on the surf side. the more i moved center to goofy side, the wake was definately effected.

I then added about 200lbs on the floor it got better, along with emptying out about 100lbs off the non surf side.
I tried to surf that but did not get enough push to sustain riding ropless.

swapped out my surf side locker with my 1100lb sac, and put the 750 on the floor. (Boat still weighted pretty evenly)
I was able to surf no problem and added about 1-2 foot on my pocket. I didn't have alot of time to experiment due to things going on that afternoon, but I believe adding a little more up front would have improved the wake as well.

Two things that i am happy with adding the "Wickedwake surf gate"
1.) the boat still needs the weight, but it is not heavily listed to one side.
2.) added more pocket and cleaned the wave up nicely.

Now that i have seen how it is made, I will end up making something similar for the goofy side. ( my brother rides goofy). unfortunately i am running out of season to keep on testing and surfing. I was in my wetsuit yesterday and was comfortable, but the water and air temp is for sure dropping...
just wanted to give some feed back on this. Just remember

"There is no replacement for displacement"-- you gotta have the weight...

[mikenehrkorn]

Can you post a few pics of the gate? Thanks.

[reeder]

So you figured it added about 1-2 ft. to the pocket length?

[smorris7]

For you guys that have built these gates. What is the easiest way to model the hull shape. What methods were used? I'm trying to determine the easiest way to get to correct shaping of the gate where it fits flush against the hull.

[trayson]

For you guys that have built these gates. What is the easiest way to model the hull shape. What methods were used? I'm trying to determine the easiest way to get to correct shaping of the gate where it fits flush against the hull.

Cardboard, scissors, razor knife.

make a template. :)

[beej77r]

2094520946

This is what the gate looks like from Wickedwakesurf.com

It added about 1-2 foot of pocket on my 20ft boat... not too bad

[beej77r]

2094820947

The one pic where i am holding the rope(2nd pic), I was still riding the wave, and before I was in the curl of the wave in the same spot...

[beej77r]

209492095020951

Sorry for all the different post... I took some screen shots of the wake while i was surfing...

[slipperyrockTKE300]

what is the price of the wickedwakesurf gate?

[slipperyrockTKE300]

"For you guys that have built these gates. What is the easiest way to model the hull shape. What methods were used?"

Ever tile a floor? If so, you know how to do it.

Just like trayson says - make a template

[jmvotto]

Cardboard, scissors, razor knife.

make a template. :)


x2....................

[beej77r]

Price for one gate is $225 plus shipping, I believe if you decide to get one for both sides, It would be around $350 or so.
Mine was discounted due to having to make a lot of final cuts and assembling more than most customers would have to.
For the simple fact that they didn't have access to my boat to make final cuts for the paddle. If you contact Mollie at Wicked Wake Surf or just email them, they are good about getting back in touch.

I was going to send Joe a cut out of my boats transom so he had one on hand for doing another Moomba OBV. I just need to do it.

[slipperyrockTKE300]

BJ, are you in the Atlanta area? Just curious how you got the hull dimensions to Mollie. She told me they could build me one for my NG OBV, but they needed to find one in the Atlanta area to measure.

Anybody in the Atlanta area willing to have their 2009+ OBV measured by wickedwakesurf?

[mikenehrkorn]

Price for one gate is $225 plus shipping, I believe if you decide to get one for both sides, It would be around $350 or so.

Maybe its just me, but that seems like a lot.....isn't that just some HDPE, stainless screws and a couple of eye bolts? Like maybe $75 in materials?? The hardest part is getting the profile right and that could be easily done with a template. Seems like 1-2 hrs max.

[slipperyrockTKE300]

gotta pay for R&D!

I'm sure that price will fall somewhat once they get the data for each different hull type.

Certainly better than the $600 for that Velcro wedge thingy :)

[trayson]

Maybe its just me, but that seems like a lot.....isn't that just some HDPE, stainless screws and a couple of eye bolts? Like maybe $75 in materials?? The hardest part is getting the profile right and that could be easily done with a template. Seems like 1-2 hrs max.

You're right. it's most assuredly a premium for those that can't or won't DIY.

Mine should end up maybe $65 or so and I'll have leftover materials. (That box of stainless screws was $15, ouch!).

[sandm]

from buying hdpe for amp racks, that stuff is not cheap, especially looking at the thickness and double up they are using.

and as ed mentioned, the design is part of it, however if I were looking to go this route and had some basic woodworking skills, looks pretty easy to build one..

[slipperyrockTKE300]

Mcmaster carr has a 4' x 4' x 1/2" sheet for about $120.00 + shipping

[bergermaister]

https://www.interstateplastics.com/plastic-sheets.php

Other options besides HDPE

Colors too

[trayson]

This is my HDPE supplier. they have WAY better prices than TAP Plastics, which is another of our local stores.

www.professionalplastics.com

I just ordered from them to make a custom swim platform.

[sivs1]

2094520946

This is what the gate looks like from Wickedwakesurf.com

It added about 1-2 foot of pocket on my 20ft boat... not too bad

Can you give us some rough measurements? My estimate based on the pic is 12x18. Is your platform stock?

[mikenehrkorn]

https://www.interstateplastics.com/plastic-sheets.php

Other options besides HDPE

Colors too

And even some marine specific applications......hmmmm

[jmvotto]

9, bucks at sams club

http://www.samsclub.com/sams/bakers-chefs-commercial-cutting-board-15-x-20/126035.ip?utm_campaign=bazaarvoice&utm_medium=SearchVoice&utm_source=AskAndAnswer&utm_content=Default

[bergermaister]

9, bucks at sams club

http://www.samsclub.com/sams/bakers-chefs-commercial-cutting-board-15-x-20/126035.ip?utm_campaign=bazaarvoice&utm_medium=SearchVoice&utm_source=AskAndAnswer&utm_content=Default

We have a winner!

[jmvotto]

Got mine done with two boards
Pics in the ghetto gate thread

[bergermaister]

And you can slice up stuff for sandwiches when you're done surfing - bonus!

;)

[bergermaister]

Ok - so apparently I'm easily distracted because the... SQUIRREL!

http://www.webstaurantstore.com/cutting-board-18-x-24-x-1-2-poly-white/20318245.html

Take your pick of colors there! I see obnoxious yellow...

[slipperyrockTKE300]

^^^^^^ Given the 24" length of the ones berge posted (and even comes in colors), I think we have a new winner!

[trayson]

Ok - so apparently I'm easily distracted because the... SQUIRREL!

http://www.webstaurantstore.com/cutting-board-18-x-24-x-1-2-poly-white/20318245.html

Take your pick of colors there! I see obnoxious yellow...


^^^^^^ Given the 24" length of the ones berge posted (and even comes in colors), I think we have a new winner!

Well, Berg might have posted it, but I ordered from them last week and have a pair of 18 x 24 x 1/2" in blue sitting in my garage right now...

:-P

[jmvotto]

not sure the length has a lot to do with it , look at the flow, nss etc., the paint option will get you more colors as well. , but very cool. May sure its HDPE plastics.

[mikenehrkorn]

Finally got my prototype done.....testing will have to wait til next spring since the boat is already winterized. 😫😫

21003210042100521006

[trayson]

Jealous of those of you that have simple hull shapes. My Supra was super easy. My XLV has some serious complex curves. :-/

[tarheelskier]

Come on man, complex curves are always a good thing! 8)

[jmvotto]

I got the curves down, I just underestimated how close the platform was the to the hull sides, never got to adjust before hibernation, but it am confident it will work.

[Stazi]

Just bought a couple of the Sam's Club cutting boards to make some ghetto gates. Anyone know where you can find teak wood? I'm in S.E. MI......Wayne/Oakland county

[5:00]

The water must be getting warm again this thread is alive again! I really need to get working on mine again.

Stazi if you are just starting to experiment you may want to start with plywood as most of us have then go to the real thing once you get it right.

[Stazi]

The water must be getting warm again this thread is alive again! I really need to get working on mine again.

Stazi if you are just starting to experiment you may want to start with plywood as most of us have then go to the real thing once you get it right.

Good point

[wolfeman131]

Just bought a couple of the Sam's Club cutting boards to make some ghetto gates. Anyone know where you can find teak wood? I'm in S.E. MI......Wayne/Oakland county

Find a local junk yard that has some old boats and make a deal on some platforms.

[reeder]

Going back to the topic of the swim platform, I just have the stock platform on my 2008 OBV and I'm pretty sure it's affecting the wake in a negative way. What are my options to get a good surf platform? Do I have to build one or are there companies that build them?

[trayson]

Going back to the topic of the swim platform, I just have the stock platform on my 2008 OBV and I'm pretty sure it's affecting the wake in a negative way. What are my options to get a good surf platform? Do I have to build one or are there companies that build them?

Well, there is the OEM option of going with a Moomba surf platform. that will run you easily $750 to $1000. The consensus is that the best way to build an aftermarket one is to get some HDPE and make your own, reusing the factory brackets.

[5:00]

get some HDPE and make your own, reusing the factory brackets.

How thick should the HDPE be?

[trayson]

How thick should the HDPE be?

I used 3/4 and it's working okay. It flexes a little though. But I think it'll be fine. I've never had an issue with it. The price to go 1" was a big jump for me.

That said, others have went 1" and could chime in.

[5:00]

Sounds like 3/4" is a good way to go. There is a price jump for sure to go to 1".

[trayson]

Sounds like 3/4" is a good way to go. There is a price jump for sure to go to 1".

Agreed. like I said the 3/4 flexes a little, but I can't imagine how much force it'd take to break it. It is really durable stuff. very strong. I got mine in black and I think that looks great. I put hydroturf on mine also.

[5:00]

I was thinking of throwing some grey turf on it. I was thinking of going with the white but will see.

[spyder]

anyone know if it's possible to obtain the legs to the swim platform only if I wanted to make myself a new platform, but not destroy my current one?

[5:00]

Was wondering about that also. I need to switch them out quickly while building so the boat can be used during the experimentation.

[trayson]

anyone know if it's possible to obtain the legs to the swim platform only if I wanted to make myself a new platform, but not destroy my current one?

Are you talking about the platform brackets? If so, yes, you can get a new pair of platform brackets from Skiers Choice. However, they're simply held in to the platform with I think 6 screws per bracket, so I haven't "destroyed" anything by removing my OEM platform from the brackets. I could revert back to the OEM in the time it takes to remove 12 screws and replace 12 screws. I'd say that under 5 minutes would be fair with a cordless.

[spyder]

Are you talking about the platform brackets? If so, yes, you can get a new pair of platform brackets from Skiers Choice. However, they're simply held in to the platform with I think 6 screws per bracket, so I haven't "destroyed" anything by removing my OEM platform from the brackets. I could revert back to the OEM in the time it takes to remove 12 screws and replace 12 screws. I'd say that under 5 minutes would be fair with a cordless.

i just fear removing screws multiple times and making the hole all stripped and useless..

i wonder if a friend who is a metal fabricator could just whip something up.

[5:00]

Talking about just the brackets that fit on the platform and leaving the ones on the transom alone? That way the platforms can be swapped without tools.

[parrothd]

I've gotta say, the wedge gate thing rocks...

I didn't get a chance to test it much earlier in the season but now we're hooked. The wave seems easier to setup and is more consistent, also seems a bit longer and with a lot more push. Today we played around double up surfing and I spent some time exploring the flats. I could come down the wave and go out to the side.