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ICTVillain
08-12-2014, 10:20 AM
Hello Moomba Forum participants - My name is Nick and I am currently building a house on a ~70 acre ski/wake boarding lake in Wichita, Ks.

The lake allows for 21 foot boats (the swim platform can go beyond 21 feet if it is removable).

I have a young family (Two children under the age of 3) and I am trying to identify the best value boat that would accommodate surfing and wake boarding. Since this is for my home, items such as storage are not a huge consideration.

I began my search by looking for used Mastercraft 205V's, but I have not been able to find one that makes sense. Recently, I went to the local dealer (This dealer carries Moomba, Axis, Malibu, and Mastercraft). The only boat in stock that might work is an X2, but >$70k is beyond what my wife would consider... The only Moomba in stock was a Mojo. I really liked the look of it and found via further research that Moomba makes the Mondo and Outback which would work on my lake.

I would love to find a used Outback V, but if not a dealer in Oklahoma has new Mondo that seems priced well and might be worth making the two hour drive to test it out.

My questions:
1) Besides cosmetics - what are the most significant differences between the Mondo and Outback V?
2) With the Mondo - what are the must have options? I have trouble believing that anything stock will be desirable....
3) Would you make a different recommendation to a family purchasing their first boat (with little surf/wakeboarding experience)

Thanks in advance!

kaneboats
08-12-2014, 10:23 AM
I would test drive the Mondo and the LSV as well as the Outback V. You will fall in love with one of them if not all three. Good luck and congratulations on your new home.

sivs1
08-12-2014, 10:41 AM
I may be partial to the LSV, however there are some reasons why. Very versatile boat, can ski, tube, wakeboard/surf or just putz around. The other main thing we were looking for was free board depth. We have a young child and have friends with young kids. We wanted something we felt was deep enough in the cabin area where we didn't have to worry about kid over board, this took the OBV out of the equation for us. We got a great deal on our LSV and have loved it. When we Sold the Stingray I/O an upgrade to the Mondo didn't seem like we were gaining enough in extra space, the LSV is loaded with space but doesn't feel too big. I would love to get into a Mojo, but feel that may be too much boat for us.

Good luck, this is a great Forum and Moomba is a great brand to consider.

KG's Supra24
08-12-2014, 10:58 AM
The LSV will still be too long for your restrictions.

The Mondo is the new generation of tug boats where the Outback V is the older style. Although that's somewhat cosmetic, its the core difference of the boats. Mondo will be deep, feel safer for the kids inside, have more storage room for gear or ballast. The Outback V will be leaner, ride lower in the water, and likely be a little better for skiing.

I would think, not certain, the Mondo will do just about everything better but ski. The difference in styling can be seen in pics ....

http://wakeboardingmag.com/files/2012/12/MoombaOutbackV-500x333.jpg

http://orlandonautiques.com/rnorlwp/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Screen-Shot-2013-09-17-at-3.45.31-PM.png


I'll let other fills in the must haves. For a young family that wants to do it all, I'd put the Mondo ahead of the Outback V by a good distance.

kaneboats
08-12-2014, 11:04 AM
Yea, I guess the LSV is 21' 6" without platform. Probably can't fudge it. I'd test drive the other two though. Lots of guys who criticize the OBV have never ridden in one or rode on the older model. It is a fine boat worth a look, especially for a small family.

KG's Supra24
08-12-2014, 11:20 AM
Yes, disclaimer ... I have never ridden in either.

My perspective comes from boat depth and comparisons with boats I've been in. A family with young kids, a deeper interior will win out 95% of the time, especially with mom involved. The right move is definitely to sit in or test drive both, though.

ICTVillain
08-12-2014, 11:46 AM
It looks like I should at least test a Mondo. When it comes to test driving a new model - Is it as easy as test driving a new car? If I drive 2+ hours to test drive one, will the salesperson will be "expecting" a sale???

If I look at used Outback V's - are there any years to avoid. I assume the direct Outback models will not be good for surfing, but maybe I am incorrectly ruling them out.

jmvotto
08-12-2014, 11:47 AM
Couple used 2009 and newer OBV on only inboards, both are good choices, the mondo will be pricier due to its new release in 2014.

http://www.onlyinboards.com/Advanced-Search-Options.aspx?MakerName=5&YearFrom=&YearTo=&PriceFrom=&PriceTo=&Keywords=&State=-1

sivs1
08-12-2014, 11:54 AM
[QUOTE=ICTVillain;250638]It looks like I should at least test a Mondo. When it comes to test driving a new model - Is it as easy as test driving a new car? If I drive 2+ hours to test drive one, will the salesperson will be "expecting" a sale???

If you drive 2+ hours to look and test drive I am sure you are a serious buyer. Put that back on the dealer to push for a good deal on a Mondo. Get to know the boat before you're on the water and then once your out you want to see how it handles, how it feels, do you feel comfortable driving it? Does the wife feel comfortable with it/driving it? Loading and unloading you'll learn over time.

sandm
08-12-2014, 12:14 PM
ask yourself what you REALLY want out of a boat. waterski/board/surf/tube/swim. the outback will do all those good, but it's really a crossover boat. the mondo will run circles around the outback from a wake/surf perspective but is not a slalom boat(chalk that up to the outback). it also has a somewhat tall freeboard that might be a bit of a challenge for younger kids to get in/out from the swimdeck.
best advice is to go try each and you will fall in love with one..

my vote for a young family will be mondo every time as it will offer more wake potential as the family grows up, but it's my .02..

slipperyrockTKE300
08-12-2014, 01:04 PM
I have a 2009 Outback V.

Love the boat, but it is small.

6 people in the thing feels like a crowd.

4 is perfect.

winksonthewake
08-12-2014, 01:05 PM
I have a 2012 Outback V with 3 kids 4 yrs old and under. We love it. We often go with family friends who also have 3 kids under 4 yrs old (total 4 adults, 6 young kids). I would recommend it without hesitation. We slalom, wakeboard, and surf, and the kids (4yr old and 2 yr old) ski on a trainer ski with me by their side on a kneeboard.

The freeboard is much less than Mondo, but it is still plenty deep for complete safety. Kids need to be intentionally disobedient and reckless to put themselves in harms way - and that's when it is time to get off the water as opposed to wishing for more freeboard :).

(when the kids are exhausted from swimming etc. behavior disappears too and the smart move is to head in for naps. there is plenty of seat space on the boat for kids to nap, and if it is just our family, they will , but if friends are there no one wants to be the first kid to give in!)

We bring a ton of stuff on the water, as you may expect with 3-6 little kids and doing each of slalom, wakeboard, surf and kids skiing each day. I've added aftermarket waterski racks for my and my wife's slalom skis; the wakeboards fit in the factory rack, and the rest stows in the rear lockers.

Slalom: I went OBV because I grew up a slalom skier. It is an excellent slalom boat; pretty much competition ready.

Wakeboard: Filling up our 2000lb of fat sac ballast (aftermarket), we've towed guys who can throw all the cool stuff behind our OBV - scarecrow, back roll, front flip, raley, tantrum, etc.

Surf: reconfigure the ballast into gangsta lean mode and you have a legit surf wake. Free-surfing on a good board is no sweat, although it is not a 'long pocket'. Surfing is where the OBVs is 'least good', so if you want air and to spin 3s, you'll be disappointed. if you just want to ride, you won't be wanting for anything

Kids / Beginners: With no ballast, the OBV has a very friendly wake and has to be the boat of choice for first timers on trainer skis, water skis, slalom, kneeboard, or wakeboard. Even at low speeds, the wake is non-intimidating.

Value: the boat per dollar you get with the OBV is phenomenal. I have aspirations to upgrade to a Supra SA one day, and that shopping process has really highlighted the extreme capability the OBV offers at basically the lowest price wake boat on the market. It is the lowest price, does everything very well, and for us has been a very solid and reliable machine. Zero issues in 3 seasons / 120 hrs of use.

Features: Must haves include swim platform, bimini, tandem axle trailer, and GPS cruise control. A sub and tower speakers are good add-ons too, but can be done at any time. the aforementioned items need to be ordered from day one. Don't underestimate the value of tandem axle trailer either. they'll tell you it is a small boat and one axle is sufficient (which it is) but tandem means you never bounce hard over potholes, and I mean never. same goes for Mondo.

If I were to do it all again:
I would have stepped up to the LSV. From my first hand experience, the LSV does everything the OBV does, but gives you a bit of extra space. your lake rules put the nix on the LSV, but I wanted to be entirely honest :).

If I were to do it now:
I would absolutely take the Mondo for a test drive to see and preferably ride the slalom wake. I would also want to see how soft you can make the wake at low speed for beginners, especially since you have a couple of up and coming skiers/boarders with you.

I wish...
- I had a better surf wake. Mondo will give you that, especially with the Moomba Flow.
- My ballast system was automated...but that is a Supra v Moomba issue, not Mondo v OBV (hence my desire for the SA one day, which even at 22' lays down a very nice flat slalom wake at 32mph and no ballast). FYI you will need aftermarket ballast to some extent for great surfing and wakeboarding with either boat. I think 2000lb really is the magic number for great wakes (for both sports) and the Gravity III falls short of that for either boat. Maybe the Mondo can even handle more?

The freeboard debate....
- It DOES improve surfing capability for sure
- It DOES allow for higher seats which makes the driver seat notably easier to get in and out of
- It DOES give a drier ride which is of course nice
- It IS NOT the determining factor for safety of your kids...that is your job :)

Bottom line:
- OBV and Mondo are both solid, reliable, capable, and good looking (in my opinion)
- Supra and Moomba prioritize building multi-function boats (ie ski / wakeboard / surf) as opposed to focussing on singular sport specialisation, so in my opinion you are looking at the right brand
- Moomba boat per dollar value is tremendous
- there are fewer OBVs out there, especially compared to LSVs, so lets be honest: smaller resale market (your size limit on your lake may create a local market for you though)
- functionally I think the decision point is really about the wake for slalom and at beginner speeds, and how important that is to you.
- style...let's be honest here too: you need to like your boat a lot, right from when you set eyes on it on the showroom floor. if you say to heck with all the foregoing and just buy the one that looks best to you, you'll still be happy :)
- price...you need to feel like you're getting a good deal too...price is forgotten over time (as long as you don't break the bank!) whereas having a boat you don't quite like never goes away!

Best of Luck...sorry if I've rambled on...boat shopping is about my favorite thing in the world though, right next to actually being on the water! Let me know if you have any questions on my ramblings above, and good luck!!!

PS - the boat and love of water is the best gift we've given our kids...it sets their imaginations and ambitions free in a way that cannot otherwise be done...and I am proof it is a gift that lasts a lifetime (I started as a youngs...so the real bottom line is, congrats on opening the world of watersports up to your kids!!!!

tnbrooks01
08-12-2014, 02:15 PM
Hello Moomba Forum participants - My name is Nick and I am currently building a house on a ~70 acre ski/wake boarding lake in Wichita, Ks.

The lake allows for 21 foot boats (the swim platform can go beyond 21 feet if it is removable).

I have a young family (Two children under the age of 3) and I am trying to identify the best value boat that would accommodate surfing and wake boarding. Since this is for my home, items such as storage are not a huge consideration.

I began my search by looking for used Mastercraft 205V's, but I have not been able to find one that makes sense. Recently, I went to the local dealer (This dealer carries Moomba, Axis, Malibu, and Mastercraft). The only boat in stock that might work is an X2, but >$70k is beyond what my wife would consider... The only Moomba in stock was a Mojo. I really liked the look of it and found via further research that Moomba makes the Mondo and Outback which would work on my lake.

I would love to find a used Outback V, but if not a dealer in Oklahoma has new Mondo that seems priced well and might be worth making the two hour drive to test it out.

My questions:
1) Besides cosmetics - what are the most significant differences between the Mondo and Outback V?
2) With the Mondo - what are the must have options? I have trouble believing that anything stock will be desirable....
3) Would you make a different recommendation to a family purchasing their first boat (with little surf/wakeboarding experience)

Thanks in advance!



Hello Nick,

Your story sounds really familiar. I believe I was given the details of your situation this weekend. I would highly encourage you to make the drive down to Crosstimbers on Skiatook to try out the Mondo.

I will also add that if the 21'6 is acceptable for your lake I have a 2013 LSV for sale that is at Crosstimbers also and you could test it out too.

patrick232
08-12-2014, 04:43 PM
The Mondo will be the boat for you, if you liked the Mojo. Same style in a smaller package. We have about 45 hours on ours and just one small transducer issue, she has been great.

ICTVillain
08-12-2014, 05:23 PM
Todd,

Thank you for the feedback - it is a small world!

My HOA just indicated that a <22' boat would work. That brings the LSV into the discussion. It also brings 2004 Supra SSV into the discussion as well (I liked the boat, but was under the impression that it was too long). Does anybody have experience with the SSV?

I appreciate every single post in response to my original questions. It has been very informative and helpful (especially winksonthewake)! Thank you, Nick Begley

Mrd8ker
08-12-2014, 07:16 PM
Drive the Mondo!

sandm
08-12-2014, 08:06 PM
that changes things a tad. if you can get a 22ft boat on the lake, I'd say get the biggest boat you can afford/fit. you won't be sorry. I had the shorter, narrower and less freeboard version and loved it. would be a tough decision between mondo and 22ssv.. nothing against the lsv but that's what I'd shop if it was my $$ and if I found a mint ssv, it's what I would bring home. not sure if you have a lead on a 2004 but they made many different years of that boat. I'd look for a newer one. they are a sweet boat.

saskyrider
08-12-2014, 09:37 PM
I was out today in my mondo with 8 kids 4 adults... all kids were under 12. We were maxed out but not completely squished... we surfed wakeboarded and it was perfect... love my mondo!!!

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

ICTVillain
08-12-2014, 09:38 PM
that changes things a tad. if you can get a 22ft boat on the lake, I'd say get the biggest boat you can afford/fit. you won't be sorry. I had the shorter, narrower and less freeboard version and loved it. would be a tough decision between mondo and 22ssv.. nothing against the lsv but that's what I'd shop if it was my $$ and if I found a mint ssv, it's what I would bring home. not sure if you have a lead on a 2004 but they made many different years of that boat. I'd look for a newer one. they are a sweet boat.

Yes, it is 2004 with 320 hours and $30k asking price. Hull & Trailer are in great shape. The interior isn't perfect (some fading and three tears/punctures on cushions).

jmvotto
08-12-2014, 09:47 PM
Gorgeous supra 21v for sale in the classifieds.

Low hours

snyderaaron
08-12-2014, 11:30 PM
Gorgeous supra 21v for sale in the classifieds.

Low hours

Was just going to post this

ICTVillain
08-12-2014, 11:53 PM
Was just going to post this

That one does look pretty freaking nice, but it is a long way from Kansas....

Backstory - I thought I had the boat I was looking for in Omaha which is about a six hour ride. Everything checked out, one owner, great story, superb maintenance. I arrive and everything looks great. Get the boat on the water and it would not start. I believe it was a bad fuel pump, but I have not heard back from the seller - so who knows?

After that, I was going to be in the Dallas area. Prior to making the trip I find a second boat in the Frisco area. I have my brother (he lives near Frisco) check it ahead of time and everything seems good to go. I drive to Dallas and by happenstance I find an add of a very similar boat; in fact, the same boat. Details of the two classifieds do not align and I start asking questions until the owner admits that he may have made most of story up. Of course, I got in my car and never looked back.

Bottom line - I am nervous to get in my car and drive too far to only be let down (My wife isn't a fan of my boat buying adventures). I think it was bad luck in Omaha and I think I just got bamboozled in Frisco....

wolfeman131
08-12-2014, 11:59 PM
No bamboozle on that Supra. Many of us know that seller and you'd be hard pressed to find a better person to buy from.

snyderaaron
08-12-2014, 11:59 PM
Where'd u go in Omaha, that's where I got my moomba

ICTVillain
08-13-2014, 12:10 AM
Where'd u go in Omaha, that's where I got my moomba

West Shores Lake - 200+ acres of water... fantastic set-up with beautiful homes and boats.

kaneboats
08-13-2014, 12:22 AM
No bamboozle on that Supra. Many of us know that seller and you'd be hard pressed to find a better person to buy from.

Yup, another vouch here for that one. Heckuva boat and deal right there.

tnbrooks01
08-13-2014, 12:40 AM
Todd,

Thank you for the feedback - it is a small world!

My HOA just indicated that a <22' boat would work. That brings the LSV into the discussion. It also brings 2004 Supra SSV into the discussion as well (I liked the boat, but was under the impression that it was too long). Does anybody have experience with the SSV?

I appreciate every single post in response to my original questions. It has been very informative and helpful (especially winksonthewake)! Thank you, Nick Begley

Awesome! Fyi... I don't work at the marina, I just live in the neighborhood here so that's how I heard about your situation.

If you decide to come down here to the marina to check out the mondo let me know. I enjoy meeting people from the forum when I get the chance.

jzelt
08-13-2014, 06:14 PM
We have 04 Supra 22 SSV. We love it. Just bought a Surf board for it but haven't used it yet, wakeboard, and mostly slalom ski with a 3 yr old (yesterday his birthday) with a trainer ski, tube, kneeboard. It does all to our abilities pretty well. With the swim platform and a loaded boat of adults( 8 ), it often feels like a 36 footer since everyone hangs out in the water at the back.

The nose is easily stuffed under a huge wake until you get used to taking them on. (first time or two and you learn quickly to take them on the side).

It has the bow playpen, fairly low gunwale, but he has his jacket on the entire time and we never have an issue of him getting close to falling in. He literally is growing up on the boat.

We had I/O's before so they were nicer big chop rides, but it couldn't perform for what we used it for.

325 Hp motor is right size for our size of boat. 40 Gal fuel tank. Lots of storage.

I can say that the rear bench seat does have some tears and they get more each season starting at the seam and going into the harder plastic type of material. I put vinyl glue on the to try to limit the size. But they are the nicest set of seat cushions I have been on as far as padding goes.

Good luck w your purchase.

ICTVillain
08-14-2014, 12:12 AM
We have 04 Supra 22 SSV. We love it. Just bought a Surf board for it but haven't used it yet, wakeboard, and mostly slalom ski with a 3 yr old (yesterday his birthday) with a trainer ski, tube, kneeboard. It does all to our abilities pretty well. With the swim platform and a loaded boat of adults( 8 ), it often feels like a 36 footer since everyone hangs out in the water at the back.

The nose is easily stuffed under a huge wake until you get used to taking them on. (first time or two and you learn quickly to take them on the side).

It has the bow playpen, fairly low gunwale, but he has his jacket on the entire time and we never have an issue of him getting close to falling in. He literally is growing up on the boat.

We had I/O's before so they were nicer big chop rides, but it couldn't perform for what we used it for.

325 Hp motor is right size for our size of boat. 40 Gal fuel tank. Lots of storage.

I can say that the rear bench seat does have some tears and they get more each season starting at the seam and going into the harder plastic type of material. I put vinyl glue on the to try to limit the size. But they are the nicest set of seat cushions I have been on as far as padding goes.

Good luck w your purchase.

Is the 22 SSV the same boat as the 21'8" Launch SSV? I was looking at the Supra Boat History web page and did not see a 22 SSV listed. Thanks if advance for helping with my "dumb" questions.

tnbrooks01
08-14-2014, 12:40 AM
My understanding is they are the same boat but optioned different. The launch being more wakeboard specific and the ssv more of a crossover boat. Below is a link from the supra forum that may be useful for you.


http://www.supraboats.com/bbs/showthread.php?5076-Sunsport-vs-Launch

yooper
08-14-2014, 11:28 AM
I don't have much to contribute, but one thing stuck out in the original post.... Do you really mean the lake is SEVENTY acres?

gregski
08-14-2014, 11:53 AM
Do you really mean the lake is SEVENTY acres?

It depends on the geometry. Let's say the "minimum" for a slalom course is around 2200' by 300' which by my calculation is a little over 15 acres. You will get good at P-turns - fine for skiing, but it might get a little tedious on a wakeboard or surfing. If you had a 70 acre rectangle, 300' wide, it's length would be 10000' that would be really sweet. But... a 70 acre circle has a radius less than 1000' which wouldn't work for much of anything.

jzelt
08-14-2014, 01:06 PM
Ours is the Launch. Updated signature as well. Thanks for asking.

ICTVillain
08-15-2014, 12:05 AM
I don't have much to contribute, but one thing stuck out in the original post.... Do you really mean the lake is SEVENTY acres?

Yes, SEVENTY.... emeraldbayestates.net

ICTVillain
08-15-2014, 12:13 AM
We took the 2004 Supra Launch SSV out on the lake... Everything seemed to work (lights, bilge, switches, ballast pumps, blower, perfect past, wake plate) except for the remote stereo controls. As you would expect for a boat with 322 hours the engine fired right up, ran smooth, and showed no signs of hesitation.

The only thing holding me back is the condition of the soft goods and some other fit finish issues ~ 70% of the vinyl would need to be replaced and the carpets are dirty. I had looked at the boat in direct sunlight the first time, but the second look around with less light actually made it easier to spot interior flaws.

Going to sleep on it before making any decisions. Thanks again for all the feedback and advice.

yooper
08-19-2014, 10:47 AM
Yes, SEVENTY.... emeraldbayestates.net

I checked out the website. BEAUTIFUL place! The amazing thing is, it says that the lake is one of the biggest and deepest in the area. I guess living in Michigan, I take some of this stuff for granted, but I've never even been on a 70 acre lake.... My buddy has a Mastercraft and lives on a lake that's 194 acres. He always invites us over, but we rarely go because it feels like that lake is so small. I can't even really picture what a 70 acre lake would look like.