Another Newbie needs advice - LSV or XLV

[baberger]

I have been doing quite a bit of research and after wandering all over the place have narrowed my next boat - well really first - not sure you can count 200+ hp PWCs as a boat :) down to a Moomba Mobius. I am now trying to decide on which one, the LSV or the XLV.
My concern is that a lot of people seem to move from the "smaller" to "bigger" boats as an often cited reason for selling. I really want my first acquisition to be something I can be happy with for a long time.
Here are a few considerations...
The boat will spend a vast majority of it's time on Lake Entiat and be used for water sports - some skiing, more tubing, knee boarding, wake boarding, wake surfing. We don't have a lot of experience doing much other than skiing, tubing, and knee boarding with the little ones, but excited to get out there and experience it all.
We have 4 kids, a big extended family (lots of nieces/nephews) and many friends. Our group tends to "multiply with water" :) The wive wants "room for everyone" - this partly makes me lean towards the bigger XLV, but I really do not have an appreciation for the actual size difference. My friend let us take out his XLV a couple of weekends ago and it fit a big crew nicely - 5 smaller kids up front 7 adults in the main area.
Lake Entiat has no marina's with fuel, so it's a matter of filling up with gas cans = fuel capacity consideration, but then does the bigger boat with bigger tank just compensate for the larger size and weight, or can you actually run longer?
My winter storage would be in my garage - an older home with 7' tall garage doors and 107 1/4" width. It's going to be a tight fit through the door -it may or may not require removal of the tower and/or deflating the tires a bit to get it through the door. I have 8' 9" clear once you are through the door and it is 2 1/2 cars deep, so length isn't a consideration.
I really like the playpen feature that seems to be prevalent on the XLVs, although I have seen at least one LSV with the Bow fill in cushion, but didn't know if those are readily available from Moomba or the after market.
I also notice that the number of LSV's outnumber the number of XLVs. This seems to be reflected in price and availability and the XLV's seem to be in Texas, Florida, MN, or the Northeast which is a fair distance from Washington State (transportation costs). I am not looking to buy a boat this season, unless the right opportunity came along.
Speaking of opportunities, I have been watching the following boat
http://www.welfringerwholesale.com/vehicle/used-2008-moomba-mobius-lsv-1609053.cfml
and would have an opportunity to see it tomorrow if I decide to drive an hour from Portland (where I will be tomorrow). Is it worth 3 hours out of my life to look at an LSV or should I be concentrating on finding the right XLV? He has slowly lowered his price over the last few weeks and I believe it is still available because he seems to be high (NADA suggests 4 to 5K too high - any thoughts on price?)
That's likely enough info to get the conversation started.
My max budget is in the low 30's, with the potential to go higher for the perfect boat...
I am really looking forward to joining the Moomba family!

[garyholl]

I went from a 20' bow rider to a 24' Supra and I love all that extra space. I had 12 out last weekend and will have 12 others out this weekend. I was initially worried about it being too big to trailer, store, etc. But none of that has turned out to be a problem. I pull it with my Grand Cherokee easily. It has a great wake for wakeboarding and surfing and it rides awesome!
To be fair, it does use some gas but we knew that going into it.
My thinking is you will never regret a larger boat but you might regret a smaller one.

[bergermaister]

Doing your research I see.

Bottom line - I personally have never heard anyone complain that their wakeboat is too big. Too Small? Yep.

In the Pac NW we rarely if ever have any size restrictions on lakes or rivers. Sounds like off water storage is not a problem for you either with a bigger vs. smaller boat.

XLV is rated for 16 I believe. LSV is 12? I can relate to the add water = family grows situation. Bigger is better in this case. Not only for seating but also storage. Storage space will be a HUGE consideration in your future based on your description.

Most love the playpen front of an XLV. However that will limit your front ballast options if you get to the point where you want to run really heavy. The tradeoff is that the belly or basement storage on the XLV is awesome and you can fit an 1180 ballast bag in there. The LSV just has the smaller ski locker and more limited ballast options there. With no playpen front, the LSV can do an IBS (integrated bow sac) where that wont' really work on the XLV.

LSV is probably more prevalent since more people can find storage for a 22' boat vs a 24' boat. Plus the MSRP to get into a new LSV was less in the day.

The XLV ski wake might be a bit of a hill for you, but if you're just a sport skier you'll manage!

I've been in both several times and personally would go XLV any day and not look back. Keep looking.

[gregski]

(NADA suggests 4 to 5K too high - any thoughts on price?)
I don't know much about the current market for XLVs but my opinion in general is that NADA is always lower than what I would consider market price. My guess is that the smaller market for boats forces NADA to under-price them a bit.

4-5k over NADA is probably getting close to fair market price. Use onlyinboards and boattrader to pull a bunch of comps across the nation to get a feel for the market.

FYI, a 2008 LSV with 78 hours would likely sell around that same price (34900). I'd almost be thinking "why is this so cheap?"

[baberger]

I do know that it is a bank repo, but according to the seller... "you can sell that this was someone's baby"
I guess these guys pick them up through the banks or at auction and likely get pretty good deals on them.

[Boonejeepin]

I love my XLV. I can tell you that the tower has to come off to fit under a 7' garage door.

[jmvotto]

Plus one on the xlv, my bias. Go big or go home. Lol

[Whitey]

Bought XLV earlier this year love the space and storage. I've never been in a LSV though.

[garyholl]

Doing your research I see.

Bottom line - I personally have never heard anyone complain that their wakeboat is too big. Too Small? Yep.

In the Pac NW we rarely if ever have any size restrictions on lakes or rivers. Sounds like off water storage is not a problem for you either with a bigger vs. smaller boat.

XLV is rated for 16 I believe. LSV is 12? I can relate to the add water = family grows situation. Bigger is better in this case. Not only for seating but also storage. Storage space will be a HUGE consideration in your future based on your description.

Most love the playpen front of an XLV. However that will limit your front ballast options if you get to the point where you want to run really heavy. The tradeoff is that the belly or basement storage on the XLV is awesome and you can fit an 1180 ballast bag in there. The LSV just has the smaller ski locker and more limited ballast options there. With no playpen front, the LSV can do an IBS (integrated bow sac) where that wont' really work on the XLV.

LSV is probably more prevalent since more people can find storage for a 22' boat vs a 24' boat. Plus the MSRP to get into a new LSV was less in the day.

The XLV ski wake might be a bit of a hill for you, but if you're just a sport skier you'll manage!

I've been in both several times and personally would go XLV any day and not look back. Keep looking.
Also remember that you are seeing al kinds of dedication to the sport on this site but there are plenty of us who won't be putting fat sacks on our front and side seats for a bigger wake. The playpen bow is not really a restriction; it also gives you a way to secure the kids up front and let the back be a little more adult. Unless there are bikinis, then put them up front so you can see them while you drive!
Go 24'!

[mmandley]

For pricing the XLV should be more then your typical LSV, part of that drives the price down on boats over 22 is size vs space and a vehicle to pull them.

The market for larger boats is smaller then the market for 22 and under.

Buying Repo is fine as long as you can look the boat over yourself. Lots of people get there boats repoed due to economy, and took great care of them.

[patrick232]

Here is my take owning them both and now a Mondo
2007 XLV wish I would not have sold in 2010 great all around boat, deep and safe for kids. Rode better than LSV.
2006 LSV bought in 2012 to fix and hold then upgrade. Shallow seating compared to the XLV not enough weight up front. No bowfiller. Liked it fit in garage.
2014 Mondo deeper and wider boat than the LSV rides better and fits in garage. Would have went Mojo but like fitting in garage the XLV never fit.

[baberger]

Is the fit issue length? I have plenty of that, just restricted (currently) to height (7') and width.

[patrick232]

Length was the big issue, so never even put tower down. I can't even fit a crew cab standard bed 2500hd in my garage at an angle

[kdcdds]

+1 for the xlv.
I just bought one last week. It seems massive, until you get it on the water the first time, then it seems perfect
I love it and I couldn't be happier

[Ian Brantford]

I test drove a LSV and then bought an XLV after simply seeing it in the showroom. These were 2005 models, and the 2006 LSV got a bit of a deeper hull, which would be an improvement.

Here is my long thread comparing them from back then:

https://forum.moomba.com/showthread.php?1728-Impressions-%28long%29-of-XLV-options-versus-LSV-overall

What's out of date is the 2006 LSV hull change and of course various options have changed over the years.

Here is what's better about the LSV:
1. Easier to make a good wake at lower speeds (below 19-20 MPH) for beginners.
2. Slightly lighter for towing.
3. Smaller for storage.

Other than these, the XLV wins all around because of many small differences in the interior, in addition to just being bigger. You can read my thread for (extensive) details.

Judging by what I have read of the Mojo, it hits the sweet spot for overall usage a bit better than the XLV. But, choosing among Moomba boats prior to the Mojo's introduction, I'd still choose the XLV despite having a lot of beginners on board over the years.

One downside to buying any bigger boat that you originally planned is that you might not have taken it into account during the last tow vehicle purchase. I initially towed my XLV with a 1998 4Runner. It handled well on the road, but I couldn't stop a descent on the gravel ramp! Dry weights: 3600 lb 4Runner versus 4800 lb boat/trailer.

[bergermaister]

Wow. How far were you towing with the 4?

Pretty sure the guy who owned mine previously towed with a 4runner too, but I'm a bit lighter than the XLV!

[millerda68]

A lot of the determination depends on the stage your family is in. For us, there were a few things to consider.

1. Storage space
2. Tow vehicle
3. Kids age & extra circular activities

When we got our LSV a couple years ago, we were at a stage where the kids were older and heavily involved in which school and college sports. This meant that there were not a lot of weekends with both kids available and both kids having friends along. The LSV was a huge step up over where we were (blue water breeze), and had ample space for anything we would need. If the kids were younger (grade school - starting high school), the XLV and additional room would have been nice as we would have typically been carting around 6+ kids with every outing.

Space was a concern for us and the LSV fit in the garage on the diagonal with about 3" to spare. Total pain to get it in and out, so we primarily have kept it indoors in the off season and rent a covered storage space in the on season so we can leave tower up and have easy access to the boat.

I have a 2010 Tundra with the smaller v8. It does well towing the LSV. It likely would do fine towing a LSV, but I think I would opt for a bigger rig for towing an XLV.

80% of the time now days, it is just the wife and I out floating and listening to music. Max we end up with 6 others along in the boat and the LSV has adequate storage to get equipment out of the way and have room for everyone. I am the only one who Slaloms, and the LSV wake works for that (a bit of a hump, but doable). The kids wakeboard and the LSV works well for that. We have started getting into surfing, upgraded the rear ballast to 1100's and the LSV has worked well for that too.

I think you have to weigh where you are with family and extra activities and see what makes the most sense. Most the posts have opted for the XLV. 5 years ago I probably would have gone that route. given where our family was at at the time of purchase the LSV met all our needs.

[Ian Brantford]

Wow. How far were you towing with the 4?

Usually for about an hour, 2-6 times per year. Typically, I'd just take it on one cottage trip and one or two trips home for cleaning. My XLV has spent most of its life at the marina.

There was only ever one control incident with that (3rd generation) 4Runner, which is when I hit the brakes due to oncoming traffic, right while going over a train rail crossing. It was just a moment, but my guess is that, had it not been for the tandem trailer, I might have gone for a "wild ride". In general though, 3rd and 4th generation 4Runners are about as well designed for towing as it gets for mid-sized SUV's of their eras.


Pretty sure the guy who owned mine previously towed with a 4runner too, but I'm a bit lighter than the XLV!
One thing that competitors will occasionally hammer "value" brands for is perceived construction quality simply due to the amount of fibreglas. I don't recall what the older Mobius V and LSV models weighed, but the 2006+ LSV was 3300 lbs and the XLV was only 3600 lbs! Compare to the modern 3800 lbs Mondo and 3900 lbs Mojo. Though the newer models are slightly shorter, they are heavier and presumeably a bit stronger due to more material.

[Daisypup]

I bought the LSV due to garage space (I have about 5" depth to spare) as I did not want to pay for storage. Looks just like the one in your picture but mine is maroon. Paid 29k - private sale & 5 hr drive - 2008, 325 hp, 106 hours, has wet sounds speakers and sub & 2 amps to power it all, no Bimini & stock ballasts (a dealer had a similar boat & his low was 34.5k - I gave them the option to match the price & gave them the link on Craigslist to see it was real). I would have gone to the larger boat if it would have fit in the garage. That being said, we love the boat - upgraded the prop ACME 1433 to handle all the weight from ballast upgrades (750's in rear - 500 bow) & it puts out a respectable wake (as good as my buddy's 23' stock 2010 Wakesetter - If he upgraded ballasts it would have an awesome wake). Size works fine as we normally have 6-8 people in the boat - a few sitting on the external ballast bags. New prop is better on gas - it sucked in down when you add all the weight and stock 17 pitch prop.