New board help

[ninedriver]

I'm a beginner/intermediate boarder and have been learning lot's reading various threads. As I try and hone in my skills, I'm wondering if a board upgrade would help me out. Currently, I have a Hyperlite Motive 140 with frequency bindings. Entry level, big box store, board...I know. My intentions were to learn on it and be able to use it for a good "boat" board.

So, would a better board help my progression? I'm currently trying to become proficient and consistent with progressive edging, line tension, body/arm position when heading towards the wake. Two outta three seems to be the norm, but I'm getting better. I'd like something with pop and forgivable. I'm wanting to clear w2w and add some grabs for now.

I've been looking around and now seems like a good time to grab a good deal on the already "last years" models. I'm 6'02" and 185lbs. Unfortunately, there's nothing close where I could demo boards.

I've been reading a little on the Ronix line and the district caught my attention. I'm open for any and all suggestions. Thoughts?

Thanks, Steve

http://www.evo.com/outlet/mashups/ronix-district-wakeboard-bindings-2013.aspx

[liquid_acid]

I have an obrien player, hyperlite parks and byerly monarch. All ride way different. The parks is extremely aggressive. The obrien is responsive but has a continuous rocker that is more forgiving and the byerly is really responsive as well and light. The newer boards are all pretty light and responsive. You need to figure out what rocker type you want to ride. The fins make a huge difference as well. The smaller molded in fins are a lot more forgiving, especially if you take the removeable one out.

[brain_rinse]

You asked if a different board would help your progression, and I would say no, not really. You should have no issues with the Motive and what you are looking to do and a whole lot more. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't get a new board. :)

I think the biggest thing is finding the board that fits your riding style. That's hard to do without a demo, but I bet we can help. Do you like a board that transitions edge to edge quickly and rides fast through the water? Or do you want a more mellow ride and abrupt punch at the wake? Ever want to ride it at the cable park? Do you snowboard, and would you like a similar riding experience?

[tnbrooks01]

IMO a new board is not going to help you progress faster at this stage of your riding. If anything it could make it much more difficult to progress if you get a board that is too advanced for your riding right now. Example: the RONIX camber boards would hinder you because they are shaped for a much different rider than your ability at this point.

If you want a new board by all means get one but make sure to get a beginner board which will likely be a continuous rocker, may have slightly larger fin on the toe side edge, very simple shape to the base maybe a single spine to help soften landings a little, etc....


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[ninedriver]

Hey guys, thanks for the responses!

Dan and Todd, you guys both brought up some great points and questions I hadn't thought of...

-I am a snowboarder, albeit I don't board much anymore based on my location, family, work,etc. However, when snow boarding I always enjoyed the nice "blue" cruiser runs, powder runs, and I'd look for mild jumps within the run. I didn't to parks or pipes.
-I have no plans to ride a cable park or course
-I like a good, predictable transition and edge if that makes sense.
-As far as speed through the water, I have nothing to compare to. It seems I generate more speed from edging
-I'd like to have some good pop (probably need to improve my technique more than the board) but I also like a more forgiving and less abrupt landing.
-Other than the Motive, I've only ridden one other wakeboard about 11 years ago. I rode it 3 or 4 times and have no idea what it was. Basically I learned how to get up and ride a little.

Now, I went out last week and got some video that I'm hoping you guys could critique and offer pointers. As far as the set up: I'm 6'02" 185 lbs, hyperlite motive 140. I'm using a proline LG at 65'. I've had the perfect pass set at 18.5 mph. Currently I haven't added ANY ballast to the boat (I have 1100#er's in the rear, ski locker sac, and IBS) but, again, I've been running with no ballast. I know I have a small wake, but my thought process was to concentrate more on form and technique and remove the big wake element. Not sure if that's a good idea or not...
Also, that day was the first time I've ever tried riding switch and I'm trying to force myself to practice. So, I started switch, attempted a few awkward carves within the wake, before switching back to regular to try jumping. Later in the video I tried switch again. (feels like learning all over)
Again, I'm trying to accomplish a nice lofty w2w, land confidently, and hopefully add a grab at some point.

Thanks again, Steve

http://youtu.be/vtlZROCJoeo

[brain_rinse]

I'm sure the video will help but it says it's private.

Edit: initial thoughts after reading your post... 18.5 seems way too slow if you're working on w2w (assuming you've GPS calibrated your speedo?) Bump up a few mph and see what you think.

If you were/are a snowboard you have to find a way to try a flex board like Slingshot. They are the only way to go for me and my riding style, but others like different styles.

Also KEEP RIDING SWITCH! I know it sucks now but it will help you so much more in the future.

[ninedriver]

I guess I forgot to "publish" the youtube video. It should work now, if not, please let me know.

Also, what exactly is a 'flex' board? I've heard of continuous and 3 stage rocker, but exactly how does a flex board perform?

Thanks,
Steve

[brain_rinse]

Biggest thing I see is in the video is the handle. Pull that handle lower, arms out, down at your lead hip. A couple of times you even pulled the handle up above your head which is going to backfire in a bad way. So focus on fixing that first. :) You need good handle control to get the line tension you need for W2W.

Other thing is that you are setting your edge too early, relying on side-to-side speed to get air. You need the harder edge and line tension as you are standing tall at the wake. More progressive edge.

I like the flex boards for a ton of reasons, but one big benefit is that it forces good fundamentals. Without a bunch of molded fins and rails, you have to set a good edge to get speed. It's also a ton of fun and more like snowboarding, with a bonus of forgiving landings. This is a great board at a crazy low price:
http://www.evo.com/wakeboards/slingshot-choice-wakeboard.aspx#image=75174/350310/slingshot-choice-wakeboard-2014-137.jpg

[tnbrooks01]

I agree with the speed comment. I would prob bump up to 19.5 or 20. You seem to be dragging a little in the water.


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[tnbrooks01]

Just a few comments...

I agree with your idea of going with minimal weight in the boat.


I agree with the speed comment. I would prob bump up to 19.5 or 20 to get the board higher on the water. You seem to be dragging a little in the water.

Is the width of the bindings comfortable? Looks like you would benefit from a wider base/stance....

Slow your motions down. You look very rushed when edging in and out. Make wide sweeping turns behind the boat rather than turning so abruptly. When edging out you should get to a point of coasting while the boat takes the slack back out of the rope. Then make a smooth turn back in and slowly build the edge up the wake. When you turn sharp you build edge and speed very quickly then get scared because you are going too fast at the wake you let off the edge and decelerate at the wake and that does not work well.

Now to the flex board. The slingshot boards are wood rather than a composite material and flex much more the regular boards. Most if not all board companies now have flex boards in their line which are hybrid boards (composite boards with wood stringers to add flex). While the flex boards are fun to ride and do provide a different experience I would recommend you demo one before you go buy one. They are not for everyone.

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[ninedriver]

Hey guys, thanks for the analysis and comments. Obviously I have a lot of work to do, but your coaching will certainly help me work on what I need and practice correctly, or at least try.

So, sounds (and looks) like my handle needs work. The times when I lift the handle over my head is when the line slacks out and I'm trying to get the slack out instead of it jerking really hard or I'm trying to regain balance. Looks like I need to work on both not letting it slack too much and keeping my hands lower to absorb it. Also, Dan, you mentioned " Pull that handle lower, arms out, down at your lead hip"...do you mean pushing the handle down with arms straight or by arms out do you mean stretched out in front of me? Also, while approaching the wake am I correct to have my arms bent and at my sides?

Both of you guys address my boat speed so I'll definitely pick that up. Should I try around 20 mph? Or bump it plus or minus .5? I do have gps perfect pass stargazer so I should be able to make small changes. Also, what exactly am I looking for with regards to speed? Todd, you mentioned I was dragging a bit, so by going faster I should plane out a bit more but not too fast to where I feel slippery or something?

Edging...obviously needs work. lol. I think you both hit the nail on the head. I do edge hard, feel that speed come on thinking I need it to jump big, then get nervous, and relax the edge before the wake. On my set up, I'll also slow things down as to not be so rushed and work on being more progressive. Todd, I've never been able to edge out and coast, any tips on how to do that. I've tried edging harder as I go out further, but I seem to generate only more tension and no speed to coast.

As far as bindings position...I'm so glad you saw that and pointed that out. That has been a concern and I meant to ask you guys about that. Is there any good rule of thumb? Shoulder width, slightly wider, how much duck? I'm going to widen mine at least one position each if not more.

[brain_rinse]

Look at the riding position right away in this video: http://www.learnwake.com/videos/wake-jump-variations/

Tons of other value in that video too, but should answer your handle and arms questions right off the bat. Then watch them cut out, coast in towards the wake a bit, and set an edge that is progressively harder as they approach the wake, standing tall as they ride up the face of the wake.

As for the boat speed just bump up to 20 mph and see what you think. And binding width just go shoulder width or slightly wider, ducked out so you are comfortable doing squats.

Practice a bit with those changes and post another video of your progress. You're doing great!

[tnbrooks01]

I agree with what was said above.

If your binding are marked, about 12 degrees out is a good starting point for most people.

You seemed to ride heavy on your back foot. That is likely causing the drag or plowing. If you can ride more evenly balanced that will help the edge out and coasting issue as well.

Bringing the handle up high because of slack: to correct, after your jump keep the momentum going in that direction. Don't abruptly turn to go and jump again.

As far as handle position goes. People have different body positions that work for them but the idea is to keep the handle in the general area of the hips or waist.


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[jzelt]

Jump forward in the air, and see where and how your feet are positioned when you land and set your bindings similar.