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View Full Version : Has Fresh Air Exhaust (FAE) changed your wake?



trayson
07-01-2014, 01:15 PM
So, I'd like to hear some feedback from people that have installed FAE and I'd like to know if it's changed your wake.

I did a prototype unit on my boat and I found that it acted like a huge trim tab. It really flattened my surf wake. I know that I did some things with mine where I can most certainly improve (make it higher up and closer in to the boat, change the downspout length and location). But before I put a lot of work into a version 2 for mine, or even before I give up on my own and buy the real one, I want to get feedback from people that have used the real FAE and whether it adversely affected your wake in any way (at ski, wakeboard, and surf speeds).

I know with my prototype, it made my wake at 20+ mph look like I was driving an I/O. The sound improvements were spectacular, but I was pretty disappointed in how it affected behind my boat.

This was at about 20mph if I remember right and it looks like crap. The rooster tail didn't reach far enough back to really affect a wakeboarder, but yuck.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-t-TVK-N0PJs/U6upwXlGIlI/AAAAAAAAQr8/BbS-aHT-qIU/s800/20140625_111514.jpg

As you can see, I came pretty much straight out from my exhaust ports, with just a smidge of an upward slope. And I made them long enough that it would clear the END of my wakeplate. So there's most certainly room for the FAE to be put higher and closer into the boat.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-X-Gd-7BFzcw/U6omKLrRNTI/AAAAAAAAQqs/2naDHykvpVc/s800/20140624_182833.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Pbhc-gzwqnI/U6omITWt_VI/AAAAAAAAQqk/PllE-RBOkSQ/s800/20140624_182736.jpg

Also, to shape the downspout, I heated the PVC and made the bottom of the downspout more oval rather than round. I think the pre-heating combined with the heat of the exhaust proved too much for the downspout and it deformed pretty bad (which likey contributed to the bad rooster tail).
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-j2iNlDwmWNU/U6updW1PTqI/AAAAAAAAQrk/1OrzgYQrOKA/s640/20140625_173726.jpg

So, I'd like to hear about good wake experiences with FAE's, because if it's that much of a tradeoff, it might not be worth it...

trayson
07-01-2014, 01:19 PM
This is how my wakeboard wake looks normally, without a FAE:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ZV6Kvnn1Eu8/UdSYSrKTU6I/AAAAAAAAORc/3f9Aodg5kDU/s800/IMG952348.jpg

Woody929
07-01-2014, 02:00 PM
Mine looks like your without picture. Also, the down pipe on the FAE has somewhat of a rounded wedge shape to it. I'll see if I can find a picture

Woody929
07-01-2014, 02:02 PM
You can kind of see what I'm talking about if you look at the last picture I posted on the TX Jam thread

trayson
07-01-2014, 02:03 PM
Mine looks like your without picture. Also, the down pipe on the FAE has somewhat of a rounded wedge shape to it. I'll see if I can find a picture

Good there's hope! haha.

Yeah, I just heated up my down pipe (PVC) with a heat gun and used a clamp to make it kinda oval rather than round. Obviously it wasn't the optimal design/technique/material. :-)

But hey, I'm only $20 into materials and I'm learning a lot along the way!

parrothd
07-01-2014, 02:08 PM
Nope, it doesn't change it one bit

kaneboats
07-01-2014, 03:08 PM
Glad you are doing this. I want to try one too of the "quick remove" variety so I can get it into the garage.

tgoody14
07-01-2014, 04:09 PM
Nope, it doesn't change it one bit

x2... I never noticed a difference

moombadaze
07-01-2014, 07:50 PM
no change that im aware of

maxpower220
07-01-2014, 09:20 PM
Is that schedule 40? I hope that your prototype is to fab up some different type of material. Exhaust is hot, just like your heat gun.

Second, I would (at a minimum) change the name you refer to this device as. There are some copyright laws that apply. I know that you probably aren't intending to do anything but personal use. Doubt that I would post evidence on the internet about it.

kaneboats
07-02-2014, 09:35 AM
Yea, the thought police are going to come and lock you up for thinking you can do something yourself that has already been done.

Ian Brantford
07-02-2014, 10:51 AM
The factory FAE does not make a significant change at the surface for me. The hydrofoilers notice the submarine disturbance if they ride directly behind the boat.

mmandley
07-02-2014, 12:14 PM
Trayson looking at your setup I think the reason you see an effect on the wake and surf is because when your device it too close to the bottom of your hull, the water coming off your boat is fitting it directly.

Also if you notice the FAE actually sits above my wake plate, not behind it. This way water trailing off the wake plate is still passing under my FAE. Also the entire FAE is above the wake plate. Your exhaust pipe outlets are set wider then your FAE and thus causing drag.

http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu114/mmandley/June%20Madness/IMAG0249_zpsfcpnjzrh.jpg (http://s639.photobucket.com/user/mmandley/media/June%20Madness/IMAG0249_zpsfcpnjzrh.jpg.html)

http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu114/mmandley/June%20Madness/IMAG0248_zpsbaev72z4.jpg (http://s639.photobucket.com/user/mmandley/media/June%20Madness/IMAG0248_zpsbaev72z4.jpg.html)

trayson
07-02-2014, 12:26 PM
I agree Mike. It's acting like a huge trim tab!!!!!!!!

I certainly can't change the location of my exhaust ports. I *thought* it'd be okay since the real FAE has basically the same setup on an older sunsport like mine. This is a picture of a real FAE install on a boat even older than mine:
http://www.freshairexhaust.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/SU-02-Sunsport-a.jpg?6513c6

But again, if I focus on bringing my piping UP and in, I think it'll be better for version two...
I also need to do better measurement for the downspout and make it more streamlined and robust.

Thanks for the insight everyone.

mmandley
07-02-2014, 01:54 PM
You notice they extended the width of the trim tab with the blue sections? That it protecting the FAE from water coming off the bottom of the boat.

trayson
07-02-2014, 02:09 PM
You notice they extended the width of the trim tab with the blue sections? That it protecting the FAE from water coming off the bottom of the boat.

I didn't see that! interesting for sure.

here's another supra install:
http://photos.wakeboarder.com/data/3519/medium/Picture_0031.jpg

mmandley
07-02-2014, 02:14 PM
I didn't see that! interesting for sure.

here's another supra install:
http://photos.wakeboarder.com/data/3519/medium/Picture_0031.jpg


Downspout is backwards lol.

IDK I'm thinking its your height like your thinking as well, wouldn't hurt to try adding side tabs to the water coming off the bottom has a smooth surface to flow off of.

trayson
07-02-2014, 02:22 PM
Downspout is backwards lol.

IDK I'm thinking its your height like your thinking as well, wouldn't hurt to try adding side tabs to the water coming off the bottom has a smooth surface to flow off of.

Yeah, they fixed the downspout after that pic was taken! LOL.

My hull is curved upwards though after the wakeplate so it'd be kinda tricky.

I'd imagine that for V2, I'd focus on the up/in and correct downspout length and if I was satisfied--then leave it. Fabbing trim tab extensions seems like a bit of a pain.

mmandley
07-02-2014, 02:28 PM
Fabbing trim tab extensions seems like a bit of a pain.

WHAT?!!!! This coming from the guy who made his own Flow? BWAHAHA

moombadaze
07-02-2014, 02:47 PM
Trayson, maybe try lifting the whole assemble up closer to your platform and lengthen the down pipe the same amount, that may get it out of the water

trayson
07-02-2014, 02:47 PM
WHAT?!!!! This coming from the guy who made his own Flow? BWAHAHA

Touche!!!!!!!!

trayson
07-02-2014, 02:48 PM
Trayson, maybe try lifting the whole assemble up closer to your platform and lengthen the down pipe the same amount, that may get it out of the water

Right. I'm thinking along those lines.

slipperyrockTKE300
07-02-2014, 02:58 PM
I had it on my 2003 Outback and it performed exactly as advertised.

Definitely quiet, but the exhaust tube kept bending backwards. Could never stop that from happening.

trayson
07-02-2014, 03:03 PM
I had it on my 2003 Outback and it performed exactly as advertised.

Definitely quiet, but the exhaust tube kept bending backwards. Could never stop that from happening.

I could see that happening with their version that uses couplers to attach the Tee... the whole Tee would be able to rotate. Thanks for the heads up on that issue. maybe it's something I can tackle as well in my next revision.

slipperyrockTKE300
07-02-2014, 03:37 PM
Yea, could never get those hose clamps tight enough to stop the tilt. a run at 36 mph would move it backwards at a 30 degree angle.

moombadaze
07-02-2014, 03:42 PM
think FAE says to add two set screws to keep the down pipe from twisting

trayson
07-02-2014, 03:42 PM
Yea, could never get those hose clamps tight enough to stop the tilt. a run at 36 mph would move it backwards at a 30 degree angle.

I didn't use hose clamps to attach my Tee to the horizontal pipes. Mine was made of PVC and glued. I've also seen other systems that were welded. I fgure if it's an issue I might as well be thinking about it now...

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8141/7309189380_d513eb4864_c.jpg

trayson
07-02-2014, 03:45 PM
think FAE says to add two set screws to keep the down pipe from twisting

Makes sense. I know another guy that made his own and used rivets... (not that I'm saying I'll follow this example, just showing that people have come up with different ideas...)
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/03/haremeju.jpg

gravity
06-20-2017, 02:31 AM
Did you ever make a new one?

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trayson
06-20-2017, 01:21 PM
Did you ever make a new one?

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Yep. I'm out of town this week on the lake, so pics later. It came out pretty slick. Got it up behind and above the wake plate. Got the z measurement right. There's a visible rooster with the new one, but nothing that reaches far enough back to affect Wakeboard wake.

sivs1
06-20-2017, 01:59 PM
That's what I noticed when I made one for my LSV, the rooster tail. Other than that it worked great and did not notice any impact. Will be buying a an official one for the Supra, i think!

trayson
06-25-2017, 01:16 AM
Yep. I'm out of town this week on the lake, so pics later. It came out pretty slick. Got it up behind and above the wake plate. Got the z measurement right. There's a visible rooster with the new one, but nothing that reaches far enough back to affect Wakeboard wake.

http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u492/traysonh/Moomba%20XLV/0604171944_HDR_zps2oi1ywcp.jpg

http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u492/traysonh/Moomba%20XLV/0604171943a_HDR_zpsgmeaihx8.jpg

twkoehn
06-25-2017, 10:51 AM
Great job on that Trayson, looks fantastic. Thanks for posting pictures of it. I am going to try that on my LSV. One question - how far down below the wake plate does that extend???

gravity
06-25-2017, 01:04 PM
Thanks. For the pics. Do you have any of the wake now. Looks great!

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twkoehn
06-25-2017, 08:03 PM
One more question tryson, I see the bar you attached to your platform brackets. Did you attach your "FAE" to that bar to keep it in place??? If so, how did you attach it???

trayson
06-25-2017, 11:51 PM
Thanks. For the pics. Do you have any of the wake now. Looks great!

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Best pic I have of the wake. I'm pretty sure this was taken after install. You can barely see a bulge behind the boat, but no impact on wakeboard wake.
http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u492/traysonh/Moomba%20XLV/IMG955414_zpsdqp6skvu.jpg

trayson
06-26-2017, 12:02 AM
One more question tryson, I see the bar you attached to your platform brackets. Did you attach your "FAE" to that bar to keep it in place??? If so, how did you attach it???

This is the bar made from aluminum angle bar.
http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u492/traysonh/Moomba%20XLV/0604171816_HDR_zpsff36ysfj.jpg

Since it makes a nice 90 degree angle, I ran it so that it could mate with the outer edge of the tubing that's running parallel to the bar. Then I attached the tubing to the bar with 8 stainless steel hose clamps wrapped around the tube and the bar.

If you look closely, the hose clamps are on the wider parts of the cleanout tee and the 90 degree elbow. They aren't holding the plastic together, as that is done with ABS cement. The hose clamps are actually going around the pipe and holding the pipe against the bar.

That said, I did have some trouble this last week with the rubber coupler pulling off the plastic output flange on the exhaust. The exhaust flange only has a 1" lip and It was doing great as I'd put some SS screws into it to give the coupler extra to 'bite' on. However, when I was driving to the lake, I went over some speed bumps and I think it caused the platform to move enough to yank the couplers off the exhaust flange. I'm thinking about either sourcing a different output flange, or getting something made that makes the lip longer than 1"... Not sure.
http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u492/traysonh/Moomba%20XLV/0604171915_HDR_zpskqur5mkb.jpg

http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u492/traysonh/Moomba%20XLV/0604171815a_zps4fy0h8dj.jpg

5:00
06-26-2017, 09:55 AM
Exhaust looks good! You need an aluminum insert ring for that lip. It will give something for the screws to bite into and will keep that 1" ring from getting crushed.

trayson
06-26-2017, 11:52 PM
Exhaust looks good! You need an aluminum insert ring for that lip. It will give something for the screws to bite into and will keep that 1" ring from getting crushed.

Brilliant.

Went by the local exhaust shop and had this made from stainless.
http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u492/traysonh/Moomba%20XLV/0626171850_HDR_zpsk98wr4qc.jpg

http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u492/traysonh/Moomba%20XLV/0626171851_HDR_zpsc7fkmbp9.jpg

Will have screws through plastic and stainless, and then another hose clamp on the extension.

trayson
06-27-2017, 01:37 AM
Extension with screws in it.
http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u492/traysonh/Moomba%20XLV/0626172107_HDR_zpswxu7y12w.jpg

http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u492/traysonh/Moomba%20XLV/0626172107_zps7pbfoiek.jpg

I ran a 2nd piece of aluminum angle bar so that the top tube would be cradled between the two 90's and couldn't rotate.
http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u492/traysonh/Moomba%20XLV/0626172058_HDR_zpstwbc5zqv.jpg

trayson
06-27-2017, 01:43 AM
I have to admit that it looked a lot cleaner before when you could only see the stripes of the hose clamps against the black tubing and you didn't really see the aluminum angle "attached" to the tubing. But this way it's even more bombproof than before.

I think I could have easily gotten away with just the Stainless steel extension on the plastic exhaust output flange, but I figured I might as well over-build it since it failed twice before...
http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u492/traysonh/Moomba%20XLV/0626172158_zpsyckkh9ay.jpg

http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u492/traysonh/Moomba%20XLV/0626172159a_zpstf0uajlw.jpg

Alternatively, I could have used some kind of U-bolt setup instead of the hose clamps, but I'd already bought those and they seemed to be holding quite well. Really you won't even see the hose clamps attaching the tubing to the aluminum angle bar unless you get up under the platform and look...

5:00
06-27-2017, 10:16 AM
Oh damn that should do it! If it comes off now, physics were some how broken.



http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u492/traysonh/Moomba%20XLV/0626172107_zps7pbfoiek.jpg

trayson
06-29-2017, 11:47 PM
Here is the wake at 30mph for skiing. (on rougher water)
http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u492/traysonh/Moomba%20XLV/0629171040_HDR_zpsxpl8qe3k.jpg

And with the surf wave, you have no idea it has anything other than the quieter and the lack of fumes.http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u492/traysonh/Moomba%20XLV/FB_IMG_1498771533491_zpsh5zganah.jpg
This is with my wife driving and my son on the non-surf side.

gravity
08-25-2017, 11:05 AM
Looks great man. I am redoing mine when i pull my boat out. I now know what i need to do. Mine is also acting like a trim tab and messing up my wakeboarding wake. Did you oval the down pipe at all?

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trayson
08-25-2017, 11:49 AM
Looks great man. I am redoing mine when i pull my boat out. I now know what i need to do. Mine is also acting like a trim tab and messing up my wakeboarding wake. Did you oval the down pipe at all?

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It's probably something I'll do in the off season. For now, it's working. I did end up having to cut an inch off the bottom of mine because of the drag actually putting enough leverage to pop the rubber couplers off the exhaust flanges. The real FAE actually ovals down to less than 2" wide!! that's a HUGE difference from my 3.5" ABS. I know if I used PVC I could heat and oval it, but I tried to heat up my ABS and oval it using my bench vice and a heat gun and it didn't seem to do anything. I will likely get some aluminum for the downpipe and make it more oval. But for now it's working. The extension on the exhaust flange was the ticket for me.

mattsask
08-25-2017, 11:56 PM
Trayson, you are the king of DIY. That is amazing!

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gravity
08-26-2017, 01:16 AM
I am going to use a 4to 3 inch 90 out of the stock exhaust. The 4 inch slip perfectly into the stock lip and then i just rivet it dirctly to it. It all makes sense in my head. I will post it when i get it on in a couple months.

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trayson
08-28-2017, 01:20 AM
I am going to use a 4to 3 inch 90 out of the stock exhaust. The 4 inch slip perfectly into the stock lip and then i just rivet it dirctly to it. It all makes sense in my head. I will post it when i get it on in a couple months.

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are you talking about simply having a downturn of the stock exhaust outlets so that you'd have two pipes just sticking down in the water? or are you intending on doing what the FAE does and join them together so that the downpipe is in the prop wash?

gravity
08-28-2017, 01:31 AM
Doing the the same as you. But not using any rubber at the boat. This is what i had. It worked great but was draging in the water when up to speed. So i found some adapters that will algle it up much like yours. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170828/e5456784c1569ec167f4a64813bbdb38.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170828/6e2cacb77f29210ba4d09ebafd5b4bde.jpg

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trayson
08-28-2017, 01:43 AM
FYI, the TEE that you used was way too wide for what I was trying to make work on mine. But getting the one with the screw fitting on the center of the tee was great. kept it compact and made it so everything fit. I think it's called a cleanout tee. so if you come up constrained on width, keep that in mind.

Look forward to seeing what you come up with,

gravity
08-28-2017, 02:04 AM
Right on. I did have to cut a bit off each side for it to fit in on mine. Not having it on now i do miss how quite it is and the fumes are better unless im idling at 5 or under. Well worth making one that wont effect the wake. Thanks for the feedback.

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gravity
03-23-2018, 09:46 PM
Well here is my contraption. In retrospect i might have been able to go straight out instead of up. Im sure the new plate would have kept the water from hitting it. But really wanted to go through the plate to keep the spray from the down pipe to a minimum. Not the best looking but should work well. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180324/e11f4d63e5929e77da8b8e36e47e74c5.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180324/7ea37d18b9f73f01e1073fae94cd2438.jpg

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gravity
03-23-2018, 09:47 PM
Well here is my contraption. In retrospect i might have been able to go straight out instead of up. Im sure the new plate would have kept the water from hitting it. But really wanted to go through the plate to keep the spray from the down pipe to a minimum. Not the best looking but should work well. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180324/e11f4d63e5929e77da8b8e36e47e74c5.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180324/7ea37d18b9f73f01e1073fae94cd2438.jpg

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk.. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180324/1e839f61f59d3fca527d2a5016cb598c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180324/73f6996c28549727a0f6fb24d198de66.jpg

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trayson
03-23-2018, 10:07 PM
Wow, that's crazy! Keep us updated. Looks like your wallet plate is fixed?

parrothd
03-23-2018, 11:36 PM
You may want to read do that, probably fill up with water when idling.

gravity
03-24-2018, 12:37 AM
Yes mine is a fixed plate.

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gravity
03-24-2018, 12:39 AM
You may want to read do that, probably fill up with water when idling.Do you think it will be a problem? I saw a few on the fae site that angle up quite a bit. And is that much different than the one that swoops up in the post above that trayson biult. Now im worried...

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MJHSupra
03-24-2018, 02:00 AM
Not trying to knock your design, did you think of routing each exhaust to turn outside and then down? Two outlets that went around the plate?

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gravity
03-24-2018, 02:16 AM
Not trying to knock your design, did you think of routing each exhaust to turn outside and then down? Two outlets that went around the plate?

Sent from my P00I using TapatalkYa. I quess i could have had the two pipes turn down and go through the plate. But i figured one thing stiking in the water is better than two. And really like the idea of going through the plate. Hope it works. I was trying for somthing simalar to the centurion silent stinger. I appreciate the comments.

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parrothd
03-24-2018, 09:41 AM
Do you think it will be a problem? I saw a few on the fae site that angle up quite a bit. And is that much different than the one that swoops up in the post above that trayson biult. Now im worried...

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Angle up a little bit yes, but 90 bend vertical is a different story. I would think it would trap water between the riser and the bend, not horrible but kinda like sticking a potato in your exhaust.. �� Drill some holes so the water can drain or redo it and have the pipes come straight out then down.

gravity
03-24-2018, 11:29 AM
Got ya. So your thinking it wont have flow to push the water out? I was concerned about traped water when i pull it ou of the lake but didnt think too much about in the water. It sits at our dock all summer. Lake is still frozen so i can't find out right now but i will follow up.

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parrothd
03-24-2018, 11:40 AM
Don't think it'll stall it or anything bad per se, just might restrict the exhaust giving a little less performance. Also when you pull the baot out that water would be trapped. Add some holes so it can drain.

gravity
03-24-2018, 12:17 PM
Good info. Thanks

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rdlangston13
03-24-2018, 02:41 PM
I dont think it would restrict the exhaust any more than normal since the water in there will be applying the same amount of pressure as would normally be applied by the water pushing the exhaust flaps closed. Your exhaust manifolds already have water flowing through them anyways. I do agree that normally it all drains when the boat is removed from the water and having it turn up like that will cause it to retain water. Might get moldy and stinky.

Shoebox
03-24-2018, 06:50 PM
My thought is that the exhaust will actually flow better due to the venturi effect. The stock exhaust has no restriction when on plane, other than the flaps themselves and the restriction inherent in the exhaust. However, with the flow of water over the FAE, it could actually create a venturi effect, much like aircraft jet pumps.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180324/68c5ad2134c788d4f543c5a1aa8f8fa4.jpg

gravity
11-13-2018, 12:55 AM
For anyone wondering my fae worked great. No troubles at all. Still have a little wash on the wakeboard wake but not bad. Sound and fumes def better.

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Stazi
11-13-2018, 08:48 AM
Absolutely nothing that I can see.


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Stazi
11-13-2018, 08:49 AM
Don't think it'll stall it or anything bad per se, just might restrict the exhaust giving a little less performance. Also when you pull the baot out that water would be trapped. Add some holes so it can drain.

Mine has a weep hole drilled in by FAE, right next to the flange where it bolts through the hull.


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Shoebox
11-13-2018, 12:53 PM
Mine has a weep hole drilled in by FAE, right next to the flange where it bolts through the hull.


Sent from my iPad using TapatalkMine too. Found that out when I was trying to catch the antifreeze coming out the exhaust. [emoji23] Ended up draining out onto the wake plate and ground. Oops.