How much difference will a (ZLD or WS-420) make?

[Jwredmon101]

Trying to figure out the best way to get my stereo in tune to where I dont get mechanical slap on some songs ? I listen to a variety of music and it seems like im constantly having to change settings for every other song. Im wondering if one of these Line Drivers will help my problem since I dont see anyone else posting about this issue and thats the only thing I seem to be missing from my system. Im getting most of my slap from the sub but it seems my towers have to be adjusted every once in a while to. Thanks for the info in advance!

[MLA]

First let me ask, what is it specifically, that you are contently adjusting? Im not sure I understand what is is your are experiencing, but its sounds like you are describing over excursion of the sub and possibly the tower speakers. That would more then likely begin with proper amp tuning, thus a line driver and/or EQ would not fix.

Need to understand a little clearer, what it is that you are experiencing. What are the specifics on the sub, its amp and settings, and enclosure? A line driver and EQ can enhance a systems performance, it can not fix a poor tune or poor enclosure/sub setup.

[Jwredmon101]

The sub controller is constantly having to be adjusted. Got a memphis 12 and a 500.1 PR amp. The enclosure is sealed under the helm sub is facing the driver. I can turn down the bass on the towers and get them to stop poping at the initial hit of the bass. But if I go to a rock song .. the bass dont really sounds even with the rest of the system unless I crank the bass controller on the sub. But, If i turn a rap song on I have to turn the sub way down. I think your right about the sub excursion. I run off of a Ipod plugged into the head unit. I have 2 XM9s on the tower powered by a 800.4 exile. 6 Exile in boat 6.5s powered by a 800.4 exile amp and then the sub I told you about. Ofcourse this only happens when I cranking it for surfing and partying.

[Brianinpdx]

JW - to answer your question. A pre amp EQ controller like the ZLD or 420 or the host of other brands will help a lot with your stereo setup.. But not for the reasons your thinking about. Let me lay it out for you in 1-2-3

1st: A stereo is the sum of 3 zones of operation - CABIN / TOWER / SUB. When those zones work together they create dynamic range. That dynamic range is the wow factor. If one of those is missing (say we don't have a sub installed), then the sound field becomes lopsided in a bad way. In your boat, it sounds like you have all three zones setup. And thats a good thing. Good on you!

2nd: Once we have all zones installed, we need to optimize the gear in each zone. I think this is currently where you are in the mix. What I mean is, Your tower zone needs to be gained and crossed over at 80hz for those XM9's. The cabin zone needs to be gained and crossover at 110hz, and the sub needs to be gained and setup specific for the ported/sealed+exact model sub. From what you posted, its clear to me that your gear is not gained properly nor crossover right.

3rd: At last, we are to the question you asked... If you have all the zones setup, installed, and properly tuned, the preamp EQ will really help you out in a few different ways. You'll have finger tip control right at the helm for master volume, sub, cabin, tower levels. You'll have the ability to shape the acoustic signature of your stereo with built in eq. And you'll have a built in line driver to feed your amplifiers more voltage --- this lets us turn your amp gains down. You'll also have the ability to connect your iPod directly into the preamp and bypass the deck (which helps overall sound quality).

In summary: Yes a preamp EQ is a great thing. But your not there yet. For you my friend, since you have a Exile stereo - please check your PM and retrieve my cell phone number and contact me directly and I will walk you thru setting up your levels and gains crossovers on all your exile gear. The after sale support is the entire reason we monitor the forums. Give me a ring, I'll solve your slaps and you can get back to cranking up the tunes. Maybe you can report back to the group on what you learned.

Cheers.

-Brian

[MLA]

The sub controller is constantly having to be adjusted. Got a memphis 12 and a 500.1 PR amp. The enclosure is sealed under the helm sub is facing the driver. I can turn down the bass on the towers and get them to stop poping at the initial hit of the bass. But if I go to a rock song .. the bass dont really sounds even with the rest of the system unless I crank the bass controller on the sub. But, If i turn a rap song on I have to turn the sub way down. I think your right about the sub excursion. I run off of a Ipod plugged into the head unit. I have 2 XM9s on the tower powered by a 800.4 exile. 6 Exile in boat 6.5s powered by a 800.4 exile amp and then the sub I told you about. Ofcourse this only happens when I cranking it for surfing and partying.

A couple of things I see that could be an issue. One is being the sound quality differences from one compressed song file to the next. This This can easily result in the constant up/down of the volume and sub level.

Next, is that a sub level as is sub volume dial, or is it by chance an adjustable remote bass-boost dial? I am not familiar with that amp and have not looked into it. Huge difference between sub volume and remote boost level or boost frequency adjustment.

3rd, A sealed enclosure is typically forgiving in terms of over driving the woofer as compared to a ported. Once you revisit the gain, cross-over and especially the bass-boost settings on the amp, I would make sure the box has not gotten water logged and soft. This will kill the performance of a woofer and can eventually lead to woofer failure.

[Jwredmon101]

Its a remote bass boost,and the amp is a Memphis 500.1 prx amp. the box is new and just got installed about 4 days ago. so water should not be a issue it might be the Ipod as well as the gains and crossovers. I use spotify on the Ipod. Maybe that is a factor as well.

[trayson]

JW - to answer your question. A pre amp EQ controller like the ZLD or 420 or the host of other brands will help a lot with your stereo setup.. But not for the reasons your thinking about. Let me lay it out for you in 1-2-3

1st: A stereo is the sum of 3 zones of operation - CABIN / TOWER / SUB. When those zones work together they create dynamic range. That dynamic range is the wow factor. If one of those is missing (say we don't have a sub installed), then the sound field becomes lopsided in a bad way. In your boat, it sounds like you have all three zones setup. And thats a good thing. Good on you!

2nd: Once we have all zones installed, we need to optimize the gear in each zone. I think this is currently where you are in the mix. What I mean is, Your tower zone needs to be gained and crossed over at 80hz for those XM9's. The cabin zone needs to be gained and crossover at 110hz, and the sub needs to be gained and setup specific for the ported/sealed+exact model sub. From what you posted, its clear to me that your gear is not gained properly nor crossover right.

3rd: At last, we are to the question you asked... If you have all the zones setup, installed, and properly tuned, the preamp EQ will really help you out in a few different ways. You'll have finger tip control right at the helm for master volume, sub, cabin, tower levels. You'll have the ability to shape the acoustic signature of your stereo with built in eq. And you'll have a built in line driver to feed your amplifiers more voltage --- this lets us turn your amp gains down. You'll also have the ability to connect your iPod directly into the preamp and bypass the deck (which helps overall sound quality).

In summary: Yes a preamp EQ is a great thing. But your not there yet. For you my friend, since you have a Exile stereo - please check your PM and retrieve my cell phone number and contact me directly and I will walk you thru setting up your levels and gains crossovers on all your exile gear. The after sale support is the entire reason we monitor the forums. Give me a ring, I'll solve your slaps and you can get back to cranking up the tunes. Maybe you can report back to the group on what you learned.

Cheers.

-Brian

This was one of the best explanations/summaries I have read on boat audio systems. I really enjoyed reading it. I think you could easily make a boat audio system 101 post leveraged off this and post it as a sticky.

Well done.

[MLA]

Its a remote bass boost,and the amp is a Memphis 500.1 prx amp. the box is new and just got installed about 4 days ago. so water should not be a issue it might be the Ipod as well as the gains and crossovers. I use spotify on the Ipod. Maybe that is a factor as well.

Ok, that explains alot, now we are getting some where. If it is indeed a remote bass-boost dial, then it is by no means a sub volume level control, which would explain a part of the issue you are having. Let me did into that sub amp a little and see.

Was it a custom enclosure built for that woofer or is it a generic off the shelf enclosure? Need to really know the enclosure's internal volume. It needs to be at least in the range of the woofer's recommended net volume. Cant tune away a mismatch, no matter how hard you try.

Lets get the woofer worked out, then you can focus on the in-boats tuning.

[MLA]

Looking at the current Memphis 16PRX1.500 amp, indicates that that is indeed a remote sub level volume control.

So, once we have an idea of the enclosure specs, we can offer some tuning tips for that amp.

[Jwredmon101]

its suppose to be a custom enclosure built just for my application.. its a memphis PR 12. I cant see behind the kick board but, thats what I paid for. Maybe I need to do alittle investigation.

[Jwredmon101]

Talked to the owner of the sound shop on the sub.. he says the guy he had to build the box built it to the specs for a sealed box for the memphis pr 12 .. thats why he didnt go with a ported box because of the space requirements. so the only thing i have to go off of is that it is boxed correctly. but I cant find the specs online

[MLA]

Ok, good. Lets just assume that the net volume is in the house of what memphis suggests.

All head-unit EQ and loudness settings off/flat.

Lo-Pass cross-over frequency = I would start with it at 100Hz, but buy time I was done, I think it would end up a bit lower, like 80hz. Theres not dead-set point, it plays into the woofer, the box and the in-boats.

Bass-Boost = Off/zero for now. There may need to be some trial and error with adding a little boost, but I would rather add blocks to the box to tighten it up though.

Gain = Cant really ball-park this one since I have no personal experience with this amp/sub setup. its much easier to use google to find a gain setting by ear tutorial, hen for me to type the hole thing out. Just note, sub distortion is a lot harder to detect then full-range speaker distortion. Also, turn the sub knob all the way for that gain setting.

For the in-boat amp:

Cross-over filter needs to be set to Hi-pass for both halves of the amp.

cross-over point = I would start at a 100Hz and would not hesitate to go as low as 80Hz. It gets tricky when balancing the in-boat and sub cross-over points.

Gain = same procedure as above, but hearing the full-range distort is much easier.

No Bass-Boost, but it should be defeated with filter in hi-pass mode.

Tower amp:

Again, needs to be in hi-pass mode. How are the RCA run, mono or stereo? I like mono on tower speakers, but thats another day.

[MLA]

Memphis suggest 1.09 cf3 net

[Jwredmon101]

Will have to take a look at some of this tonight.. At work now but will get back to this tonight. Ty for the info.

[Brianinpdx]

JW - good talk today. Glad we got you cleared up. For those following this thread, it turns out the shop that JW had install the equipment encouraged him to run the speakers in "All Pass" mode for towers and cabins because they felt running speakers in "High Pass" mode would loose mid bass. (ahem)=== W T H ? LOL.

In talking this out on the phone, its important to understand some fundamentals. You absolutely want to knock out the un needed, un wanted portion of the freq spectrum from a cabin or tower speaker. Same is true with a sub woofer as well. Because not doing so forces the speaker to work hard outside its limitations.

Going back to the OP's original post about the speakers flapping, this is directly related to the speakers seeing to much bottom end (in all pass mode). Optimizing the speakers so they function efficiently is of paramount importance. Doing so allows for higher play volumes and much better sound quality sans mechanical noises. I asked JW to attack his system with the guidelines I laid out for him and report back to the forums his own 1/2/3:::: Where he was / what he changes / How it sounds afterward.

Cheers all

-Brian

[kaneboats]

Nice work, Brian. So glad you take the time with all of us. Doesn't do any good to have decent equipment if everything is set all wrong. Hope I get a chance to meet you next week.

[sandm]

I am glad to see a couple guys posting in this and offering solutions..

to the op.. I like the ws/zld options only for the addition of a quick way to balance out the towers or turn them off when at the party cove. don't wanna be "that guy" filling up more of the lake with my choice of tunes.. turns into a stereo war too quickly which only pisses off others and promotes noise ordinances :)

[David Analog]

We certainly understand that an in-boat and/or tower speaker will pop and flap from running 'fullrange' with too much power.
However, running 'fullrange' on a subwoofer would not create the same noise for the same reason. So you better isolate exactly why the subwoofer has a pronounced pop/slap/flap since it is a different cause. Bass EQ boost, tone control bass accentuation, too low of a crossover point, too much gain, non-sealed enclosure, too small or too large of an enclosure, or a combination of.

[Brianinpdx]

@Kane - When are we ripping into your stereo sir. Aren't you about due for a redo? It's always a pleasure helping guys out. some prefer it in private. Others in public. Either way its all good. It will be fun to see how JW does on his tune. -Brian

[Jwredmon101]

@Kane - When are we ripping into your stereo sir. Aren't you about due for a redo? It's always a pleasure helping guys out. some prefer it in private. Others in public. Either way its all good. It will be fun to see how JW does on his tune. -Brian
Hopefully I Get This Done Today.. The Week After AHholiday Is Always busy