08 lsv hard to start!

[23scuba]

I have a new to me 08 lsv with the assault 325 engine with right at 300hrs on it. I am having trouble starting the engine, sometimes it takes me 5-10 minutes to get it started and it doesnt seem to matter if its warm or not! And to beat it all you may just bump the key and it fire right up!! Here's how i start it, I turn the key on let the pump prime if nothing i do it a couple of times if that still doesnt work i pump the throttle a few times and sometimes that works sometimes not so im not seeing a pattern.. I have contacted the previous owner and he told me it always started good until last summer it started this and he replaced the fuel pump and it didnt do it anymore to him which i believe because when i test drove it i started it 3-4 times and it was fine.. Now I do have a friend with a 07 supra launch ssv and he has told me that the fuel filter would get hot on his and evaporate the fuel leaving it hydrolocked so he would sometimes run the blower the whole time he was stopped or pour a little water on the filter and it would fire right up? Any help would be greatly appreciated as I never experienced this with my 05 lsv so it's all new to me..

Thanks

[mmandley]

I have a new to me 08 lsv with the assault 325 engine with right at 300hrs on it. I am having trouble starting the engine, sometimes it takes me 5-10 minutes to get it started and it doesnt seem to matter if its warm or not! And to beat it all you may just bump the key and it fire right up!! Here's how i start it, I turn the key on let the pump prime if nothing i do it a couple of times if that still doesnt work i pump the throttle a few times and sometimes that works sometimes not so im not seeing a pattern.. I have contacted the previous owner and he told me it always started good until last summer it started this and he replaced the fuel pump and it didnt do it anymore to him which i believe because when i test drove it i started it 3-4 times and it was fine.. Now I do have a friend with a 07 supra launch ssv and he has told me that the fuel filter would get hot on his and evaporate the fuel leaving it hydrolocked so he would sometimes run the blower the whole time he was stopped or pour a little water on the filter and it would fire right up? Any help would be greatly appreciated as I never experienced this with my 05 lsv so it's all new to me..

Thanks

Very possible you have vapor lock.

First I would start with replacing the fuel filter, then do you have more problem starting it the start of your day or when you been out on the water.
When you launch it does it always start right up and get worse through out the day?

Also Pumping the throttle does nothing for a fuel injected engine. The throttle is only opening and closing the air intake plate. The fuel is completely computer controlled

[23scuba]

It doesnt really change throughout the day its always hit or miss when starting it never really fires right up when launching ive probably had it out 10 times and it has started right up maybe 3 times. When switching riders i shut the engine off and run the blower and it doesnt seem to fix the problem..

I was just trying the throttle to see what happens because ive seen stranger things happen... As i'm always working all my other hobbies!!! I did notice over the weekend i got it to start by giving it a little throttle but this did not work everytime..

mmandley do you think my problem is the fuel filter itself or the actual placement of the filter causing it to get so hot it vaporizes the fuel?

Thank you

[23scuba]

I was also reading this under starting procedures in the owners manual.. This was if the engine gets flooded but i tried it anyway..


2. With the transmission disengaged push
the lever forward to full throttle position. (This will
cause the computer to shut off the fuel injectors
which will allow the engine to clear of excess
fuel during starting).
3. Turn the Ignition Key to Start Position and operate
the starter for no more than 15 seconds at a time
until the engine starts.
4. When the engine starts, back off the throttle and
allow the engine to establish a good idle (30 to 60
seconds).
5. Return the throttle to idle position and
the transmission lockout will automatically reengage
the transmission in neutral position.
6. When ready to get underway, shift slowly into
forward or reverse, allowing the transmission time

[mmandley]

Not sure if you can really find a good place for the filter, entire engine area is hot.

You might check and clean the plugs as well. Maybe they are fouled out from the issues you have been having.

I wasn't saying moving the throttle won't really help, if I was in your position i would try it too, at that point you will try about anything to make it start.

[moombahighrider]

I don't think you have a vapor lock problem (or at least initially), seeing as the boat won't start from the get go (start of the day). Vapor lock presents itself after you have been running hot for a while and then shut the motor down and give it some time for the heat to seep through the block and into the fuel lines. On my 08 lsv, I get vapor lock on occasion, but only with the above mentioned circumstances and the issue is at the fuel pump, not fuel filter. I pour water on the fuel pump to cool it down and it fires right up.
It won't hurt to replace the fuel filter as a check, but I suspect another issue. Do you hear the pump priming everytime you switch it on?

[23scuba]

Yeah I know I can't see a better place for it either!

I haven't checked the plugs yet but that's a good thought.. I did notice it idleing rough yesterday so that could be a problem..

I know I am at that point of trying anything because I hate getting ready to go or getting dropped in drifting toward the bank trying to get out of everybody else's way!!

Thanks again!

[23scuba]

So even if it did vapor lock after being shut off it would not be vapor locked after it cooled? ( I don't know the correct term for it)

Yes I do hear the pump priming each time I switch it on.

I am all new to working on these and will have to try the fuel pump.. Is it located in the engine compartment then?

[mmandley]

So even if it did vapor lock after being shut off it would not be vapor locked after it cooled? ( I don't know the correct term for it)

Yes I do hear the pump priming each time I switch it on.

I am all new to working on these and will have to try the fuel pump.. Is it located in the engine compartment then?

Correct, Vapor lock is basically, the fuel turns to vapor from a liquid, pumps can't pump Vapor so the engine never gets fuel.

I agree with highrider, if you have this issue right at the start of your day then its not vapor lock at that point. Vapor lock tend to happen after your boating and you shut the engine off for some reason.

[moombahighrider]

As Mike says, vapor lock is the fuel turning when hot, so when the motor is cooled, the fuel is back to its normal state and would not present an issue. Also, vapor lock would typically not present itself if you turn the boat off to pick up a rider and them start it back up within a short period of time (at least in my experience). It takes a bit of time for that heat to make its way to the fuel pump and heat it up enough to produce the vapor. Remember that the fuel itself is cool in the tank and keeps the pump cool as it is pumped through the pump on its way to the motor. The heat issue comes into play when the fuel is not passing through the pump and heat seeps in via the metal to metal contact to the block. This is why the newer boats have the fuel pump mounted in the fuel tank and kept cool by the fuel it is bathed in.

[moombahighrider]

Where is your fuel filter located? Mine is to the starboard side of the v-drive, real close to the fuel tank. It does not get real hot there, as it is connected via rubber fuel line and is not in the actual engine bay.

[23scuba]

Well that makes since that it wouldn't even have time to vaporize ... Mine is in the same place starboard side of the v-drive ...

So you recommend checking plugs and changing filter too


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[ninedriver]

To simplify things, reciprocating engines need three things to run: fuel, air , and spark. Definitely change your fuel filter, easy to get to and you can go to most any auto parts store to get one that fits. If you don't know the last time your plugs have been changed, I would go ahead and change them since you're gonna pull them anyway. Also, ignition wires (spark plug wires) can be a source of rough running as well. May think about a new set of those. Finally, make sure your air source is clear, i.e. check your filter for obstruction. Those are all pretty easy to accomplish, relatively inexpensive and part of a good tune up anyways. After that, if the problem persists, I would change the fuel pump. It may be putting out inconsistent pressures.
Keep us posted , and good luck.

[23scuba]

Ok thank you all I'm gonna start with the fuel filter and go from there... Any recommendations for spark plugs?

[23scuba]

Ok today I took it out and tested the fuel pressure 60lbs at fuel prime and with engine running so it's not the fuel pump... Here is what I did find.. Pulled the coil wire to check spark and my spark is hit or miss and it's orange which tells me it's weak! Any ideas? Other than coil? That's my first guess..

[23scuba]

Ok I still haven't found my problem! Changed coil and ignition module still not firing everytime or has weak fire.. Im gonna try relays tomorrow but i'm not sure which one is even the ignition relay? I looked in all the owners manuals and cant find anything identifying them.. Can anybody on here tell me which one it is? Im gonna test the crank sensor in the morning to as well as the pickup in the distributor.. Any other suggestions on what it could be?

[Rakkasan]

I think we have the same boat. I have the exact same problems you're having and I've done the same things you have to try and fix it. Where is the crank position sensor though and if you find the relays also please let me know. However mine will start every time with starter fluid or pouring gas down the throttle body. Been on the phone with the dealership numerous times and they can't even take an educated guess with out hooking it up to their computers.

[REDFIVE48]

I have a 2006 and this would happen to me, I thought it was vapor lock but it turned out to be my MAP sensor. It's the sensor on top of the manifold between the spark arrestor and the cabin. Try removing the sensor next time it wont fire up (just unscrew it and pull out). If it fires up with it removed (it will run like crap) then you found the same issue I had. I have found the sensor doesn't actually fail, it just acts weird so I keep a spare in the boat and swap between them as it happens. Since I put the new sensor in it hasn't failed recently, but it was very sporadic before I found the problem.

[LSM]

I have an 06 LSV with 330 hours in it. This boat has been perfect since day one. After 8 hours on the lake Saturday, I was headed to the marina when the engine went to acting stupid. It scared me it was running so rough I shut it down. Once I shut it down, I checked it over good then tried to restart it. It will spin over fine it just won't start up. Today, I pulled the fuel filter, pulled the flame arrestor, bled the fuel rail, re-primed the fuel pump, but no luck. She'll spin over but no fire. I'm thinking I may have the same or similar problem. Let me know what you come up with.

[23scuba]

Wow I can't believe you guys are having the same trouble! Crank position sensor is in the v drive locker on the port side right to that side of the impeller housing. I have literally tried everything me and my mechanic buddy can think of. What we have found is no spark at the coil and no pulse at the injectors and that normally means crank sensor but that didn't fix it. So after eight hours straight of working on it we finally called my dealer. So tomorrow I'm gonna go up first thing in the morning and see what he can find out he says he will hook I yup to their machine and diagnose it for free and I can fix it myself. I did try the map sensor with no luck too. Some things you guys can try is ohm out you coil wire and make sure it doesn't have a break in it somewhere you can't see and take your kill switch out and just jump the two wires together because it could be failing also...


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[Rakkasan]

I'm guessing this is the Crank Position Sensor? Found it located on the front/port side of the block behind what I'm guessing is the Harmonic Balancer.

Also would a bad sensor cause a crank and hard to start scenario but still allow the engine to run fine and smooth once started?

[23scuba]

Yes that's it. Yes it could not always the case but a possibility.


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[996scott]

I'm sure this isn't it but make sure nothing is touching the kill switch at all. I found out the hard way that those kill switches are incredibly sensitive. I had a hat bump it every now and then and the engine would stall. I just jumped the wires to it together and took the kill switch out of play. Good luck . Let us know what you find.

[23scuba]

Ok just left the dealer... Hooked up to the computer I was getting map sensor fault but the technician said he has seen a bunch of ignition switches go bad in these. So we looked at voltage on his computer and sure enough it had 12volts until you started to turn the engine over and it fell to 0. Sure enough we plugged a new switch in and it starts right up. The switch was like $30 or so.


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[996scott]

That is great. I love it when it is a cheap fix, although you ended up doing a lot of other things.

[23scuba]

I know me too! And thank you and everybody else on this great forum for your help! I'm thinking about removing my kill switch too for that reason.. What if anything did you put in its place?


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[ninedriver]

Thanks a lot for posting a follow up with the fix. That's one more piece of info we can all add to our trouble shooting library. Nice cheap fix too.

[996scott]

I know me too! And thank you and everybody else on this great forum for your help! I'm thinking about removing my kill switch too for that reason.. What if anything did you put in its place?


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I left the switch in place and just disconnected the wires from the switch behind it and connect them together.