Just bought a 2004 Moomba Mobius XLV. Steering, bilge, and water intrusion issues.

[OJT23]

Hi, new to the forum and to inboard boats altogether.

Had a few questions about my used 2004 XLV that I just bought. Runs great, good compression, just serviced and we are really enjoying it with a few exceptions....and please forgive my ignorance....still figuring this thing out.

1. Why are there two bilge hose outlets on the side?

2. We ran into an issue on the lake with the bilge pump. We had to head back to shore after the pump quit working. It was coming on every 30 minutes or so, which seems like a lot compared to my old Sea Ray that I had. Just bought a replacement because I think the old one burned out. Water got up to the upper parts of the V drive but well below the engine. Do I need to replace the fluids? I am going to check all obvious places for leaks, exhaust clamps, drive shaft bearing, etc. One thing I need to figure out is the location of the ballast bag valves. the previous owner took the bags out and I think one may be open hence the extra bilge water. Any other areas to check? Also, I only know of one drain plug on the transom and no others.

3. Anyone ever run a backup bilge pump? Maybe connect to backup battery and spare alternate switch? Overkill?

4. Steering is tight. Difficult to turn at times. I've read up on forums about replacing the cable but I was wondering if I could try lubing any zerk fittings or anything like that first. Don't know where to start.

5. Anyone know where I can get a service manual? I have the owner's manual, but I was hoping to get something like a Chilton's or Hayes type manual.

6. Anything else I need to know about Moombas? So far my first impression is great. Love our new boat.

Thanks in advance for your responses!

[uniwarking]

Your bilge shouldn't be coming on unless you're taking water over the bow or something of that nature. If your just driving around then I don't see any reason why the bilge would be running. Did you out both drain plugs in?

The multiple outlets are likely for ballast system vents.

If you're coming from an I/O like I did, the steering stiffness is tough to adjust to.

There are many more experienced inboard boaters and XLV owners who can probably provide more insight.



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[sivs1]

Welcome, congrats on the new boat. Post your location and some pictures to show it off. I second the bilge should not be running unless water is getting in from somewhere. My brothers old boat ran great, good compression but always had a bilge full of water, he had a cracked block. Fortunately it was an easy repair. Put a hose on it and see if water is coming out of the engine anywhere. My LSV has great steering, not to stiff. I do carry a small battery powered pump on board, but if I do my homework in the driveway there shouldn't be a need for it or a second bilge pump. Check Indmar's site for engine manuals.

[Stazi]

Check the gland packing on the drive shaft to see if it's leaking excessively.

[OJT23]

Thanks for the helpful and quick responses! I will check all suggested areas for water intrusion. I think xlvs only have 1 drain plug on the transom... am I missing something?

I will post some pics as soon as I get them...maybe this weekend.

Yes, I need to refine my pre op routine to include checking the bilge function thoroughly.

Can't wait for the weekend!

Thanks again!

[uniwarking]

Congrats on the boat by the way!

Inboards/Vdrives have a center drain plug as well. Yours is located right in front of the engine, take a peek at the OM.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CEkQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmoomba.com%2Fdownloads%2Fowner_ma nuals%2Fmoomba_04.pdf&ei=IP9xU8X5OpahyASV-4HYBw&usg=AFQjCNFdmiu84rVcq-ZXCjmuutttP0aagA

Your first concern should be to find where water is getting in. Drain plugs, packings, engine cracks, etc.

[jmvotto]

Congrats on the boat by the way!

Inboards/Vdrives have a center drain plug as well. Yours is located right in front of the engine, take a peek at the OM.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CEkQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmoomba.com%2Fdownloads%2Fowner_ma nuals%2Fmoomba_04.pdf&ei=IP9xU8X5OpahyASV-4HYBw&usg=AFQjCNFdmiu84rVcq-ZXCjmuutttP0aagA

Your first concern should be to find where water is getting in. Drain plugs, packings, engine cracks, etc.


I am pretty sure the center plug is only for direct drives... check page 23 of the manual

[kaneboats]

With 7 ballast pumps on board I never worry too much about if a bilge pump were to go out. I think I could make something work. You may have a valve open or a ballast hose disconnected. Need to inspect the whole system and get familiar with how it works. Feel free to post a drawing and ask any questions if you need help. The guys on here make this the best forum to which you will ever belong. Congrats on the XLV. You're gonna love it.

[uniwarking]

I am pretty sure the center plug is only for direct drives... check page 23 of the manual

I don't know for sure, just something for him to check. My Mojo has 2 drain plugs.


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[sivs1]

I believe my LSV only has the one in the transom. would assume the XLV is similar. I'm curious now so will have to go looking for another one! LOL

[mikenehrkorn]

In my OBV the other drain is in the cabin under one of the plastic hatches, I would guess its the same for the LSV.

[uniwarking]

I thought they all had 2... I usually just pull my center one when it's not in the water and leave the transom one in place.


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[mmandley]

As for Drain plugs, Moomba didn't start using the Center on V drives till 10.

For collecting that much water in your Bilge, most likely 1 of 2 things.

1 your shaft seal is bad and leaking a lot, they can have a steady stream of water leaking through if its bad running or not.
2 if you have no ballast bags then you have a check valve open and since the V drive is lower then the water line it will siphon through and fill the boat.
When the boat is at rest the ski locker is lower.

The XLV have a little cooler, in the floor, thats what I call them cause you can load it up with ice and beer LOL. Not positive if there is a drain plug in it but I think it just drains to Bilge.

Trust me if you forgot a center drain plug you would be under water in a hour.

Look in the V drive area and you should see 2 brass Valves, one on Port <main water inlet> one on Starboard < ballast pumps > close the ballast system off if your not using it.

Being in Texas if your block was cracked i think you would have over heating issues.
I have had days where I see my ballast run a lot, when people are in and out, dog jumping in and out.

Water up to the top of the V drive is an issue though.

I wouldn't worry about the fluids too much, check them for milky or grey in color.

You have multiple port holes on the sides, due to the integrated ballast, this is the drain ports for the bags. Depending on how many bags the boat had, 3 is normal you will have one on each side in the rear, and one Starboard nose just past your windshield.

You get 2 in the rear because of the ballast.

Congratz on the boat and welcome to the forum.

[OJT23]

Wow fellas, great info here.

I looked under the boat this morning and I couldn't find a center drain, so I think mmandley is correct, transom only. Thanks to everyone else for the advice. First thing I am going to check tonight are those brass valves to the ballast system. I will also be replacing the bilge pump (if I can find it) and maybe fill up the bilge with a garden hose to see if I can ID any leaks. Good point about using the ballast sys as a bilge. Maybe I can add a T fitting with a valve.

Just had my garage door raised 2 feet to accommodate the boat, but I wasn't able to get it in last night because I didn't have the right hex head for the rad-a-cage bolt. It sat out in the rain, covered, but water still got in. Spent this morning draining the bilge via the transom plug. It was so heavy with water it bottomed out slightly while putting in the garage. Frustrating! Was able to drain out most of it and get it in with no other issues.

I will also check the fluids levels and conditions. I don't think it's cracked either, temp and oil pressure we spot on the entire time and responded appropriately with power settings.

Again, thanks for all the helpful advice. Looks like I found a great forum!

[sivs1]

Let us know what you find.

[OJT23]

I sure will..thanks.

Just remembered, I'm also having an issue with the wake plate, which is not moving, stuck in a porpoise position. Checked the fluid quickly (I was late for work) and it looked about 1/2 full, not sure if that's enough. I will use a 12V tester to see if it is getting power, but didn't know if there was something obvious that I am missing that someone may know of.

Seems like this boat has some issues but I got it for a steal! and only 250 hours. I think it was parked in a garage, winterized for a couple of years up until about 3 months ago.

[kaneboats]

You're just about overdue for some pics of this bad boy. Let's see 'em!

[OJT23]

not sure whatI'm doing wrong, but when i try to upload pics it gives me an error with an exclamation point, file is small, so its not that...hmm.

[kaneboats]

See if that looks better.

[mmandley]

I sure will..thanks.

Just remembered, I'm also having an issue with the wake plate, which is not moving, stuck in a porpoise position. Checked the fluid quickly (I was late for work) and it looked about 1/2 full, not sure if that's enough. I will use a 12V tester to see if it is getting power, but didn't know if there was something obvious that I am missing that someone may know of.

Seems like this boat has some issues but I got it for a steal! and only 250 hours. I think it was parked in a garage, winterized for a couple of years up until about 3 months ago.

You Will want the fluid level full on the wake plate, and when you hit the switch the little pump should kick on. If not start tracking it back or jump 12V to the pump to test it.

[OJT23]

Thank you everyone. Decided to do the easy stuff first...

I took the cap off the wake plate reservoir and found a cut red wire. Also, the wiring was being pinched by the cover so I rerouted the wires properly and butt connected the red wire and siliconed the butt connection to waterproof it. the wake plate now moves as it should but the indicator doesn't! I wonder why the red wire was cut, it looks like someone cut it with a wire cutter. It wasn't cut due to the pinch.

Anyway the new bilge pump also works fine, the old one was just gummed up. Tried just plugging it in and it worked fine. Now getting to the bottom of the bilge with my hands twsted between the engine belt is going to stink. It looks like the bottom part of the bilge pump casing is glued to the floor, not screwed...is that common? I may just try to use the old base and snap in the new upper pump casing and screen. All I'd have to do then is connect the drain tube.

Still haven't gotten to test the ballast valves for a leak, but I'll troubleshoot tomorrow.

Glad I'm making some progress!

Thanks again for your advice and responses.

[kaneboats]

Good for you. Nothing like learning your way around your boat yourself. There's nothing all that complicated. Just a bunch of little systems that all work together to make fun. Lots of help around here when you get stuck.

[OJT23]

Very true very true. Replaced/repaired everything I mentiOned and I think I found the source of water. The brass shutoff valve to the ballast system was only partially closed. Got it all the way off and we'll see what happens tomorrow.

[ninedriver]

kane...7 ballast pumps?? Could you elaborate as to how they're being used? If you've done a ballast install thread, I must have missed it. I'm in the process of upgrading the ballast on my 08 LSV and I'm always looking for ideas.
Thanks

And OJT23, keep up posted on what you find out. It'll help out everyone. Also, lets see some pics!

[kaneboats]

I have the original Rule pump on a T with another Rule pump that both go to the manifold (which I have modified twice). Right now it fills the center (floor) bag and/or the 400 under the seats. I added a 3/4" through hull inlet last year and then another 1" one this year. One has a Tsunami pump with a check valve and goes to one end of the surf bag. The other one is set up the same way with my third Rule pump and goes to the other end of the surf bag. I still have my original 3 drain pumps draining the bags. I only run the center, the 400 under the seats and the 750 in the rear on the surf side. It takes about 5 min. to fill everything and surf. Closer to 8 min. to empty everything but no hurry as we usually have at least a 10 min. cruise back to the ramp.

There are usually 7-10 of us on board. So I can fill the center only to wakeboard and it gives plenty. If I have a real good rider I can run about 400 in the 750 bag and balance that with people opposite it. Usually more weight up front is all you need for wakeboarding. We also have no goofy surfers. That helps a lot with storage. I keep the cooler and everything else in the starboard rear locker.

[bergermaister]

I keep the cooler and everything else in the starboard rear locker.

So approx 400lbs beer ballast in that corner :p

[kaneboats]

How much does a keg weigh anyway?

[OJT23]

Can't wait to put some bags in my xlv. For now, still trying to figure out where this water is coming from. Turns out the handle that was not full closed wasn't the issue. I assume when the handle is perpendicular to the hose then it's closed?

Anyway. I'll check the exhaust hose clamps tomorrow, then the speedo pickup. Has anyone ever tried to shoot water up against different accessory lines on the hull with a water hose to see where a leak could be coming from? I wonder if there's a suction cup type tool that can do this.

Sorry about the pictures. Tried posting some on this thread but can't get it to work. I'll try again! Oh, I posted some pics on my pic album if you want to see my boat.

I'll keep you posted on what I find.

[sivs1]

If you don't have one of these you should get one.

http://www.amazon.com/Seasense-In-Board-Motor-Flusher/dp/B002L557KK/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1400847804&sr=8-2&keywords=fake+a+lake

[kaneboats]

You can make one for about $6. Do a search on "plunger" for instructions.

[OJT23]

Thanks again for all your responses and advice.

Bad news for me....much worse that I thought. Hull has been breached and will need repair. Moomba says "lifetime" warranty is not transferable from original owner except on newer boats. Insurance adjuster says more than likely a manufacturer's defect, so not covered under my collision/comprehensive policy.

Looks like fiberglass was delaminating and separating from stringers and fiberglass is soft in areas. Going to let Moomba dealer get it off the trailer and get a better look. My adjuster will be there to verify. May have been caused by collision with floating object but he says not likely. Maybe they can work some magic with Moomba. Anyone have experience with this?

What's the point of having insurance or a lifetime warranty?

Anyone know of a good fiberglass repair shop in Austin?

There goes our summer.

[sivs1]

That sucks, hoping for a quick repair. How could you tell the hull had been breached? Just soft underneath? Anything noticeable to the naked eye?

[OJT23]

First indicators were the buckets of water coming out of the hull after I pulled it out of the water....ha ha. The adjuster pointed out the soft fiberglass and how the crack had probably formed over a long period of time. When i get it off the trailer he will tell me for sure if it's covered. There's a bunk in the way of he crack and I can only see about 3" of the crack. The bunk covers the rest.

If it's not covered, I think I'm just going to get it repaired locally. Not going to deal with dealers and warranty. It'll probably be January before I am able to get it back. Want to get the kids back out on the water soon and I know a couple of guys who did great work on my old Sea Ray when I got a chip in it. besides, with a $2500 deductible, it's not going to matter much.

I wonder if it's worth having someone put a drain/plug down near the lowest part of the hull. I wonder if sitting water eventually penetrated the resin and started the deterioration.

I forgot how expensive boats were.

[bergermaister]

with a $2500 deductible, it's not going to matter much.

HOLY INSURANCE BATMAN...

You may be able to find a guy from a shop who would work a side deal outside of shop hours for cash if this truly is an out of pocket expense.

[OJT23]

Yeah I think I'm going to try Cassie's Fiberglass. Former Glastron fiberglass man. Great reviews on him.

[uniwarking]

Good luck sir, hopefully they can get it in and out quickly and you won't have to give up any limbs to pay for it!

My dad is dealing with a cracked block after a botched winterization on his boat and I've watched a good friend of mine sink thousands into his boat over the past four years.... it's never fun when issues arise. I'm sure they'll get it taken care of and you'll be back on the water loving it soon!

[OJT23]

Oh so sad. According to the Progressive insurance adjuster and my repair guy, it looks like a hull defect. The fiberglass delaminated from the structure and started flapping against the it, eventually causing a crack in the fiberglass and softening of the surrounding fiberglass. It's a shame Moomba won't cover it. since I discovered it last week, a total of four guys have told me that Moombas and Supras have had this issue in the past. However, unless you are the original owner, there is no "lifetime" warranty to cover it. I think they've changed their policy, which is good, but owners of older Moombas are out of luck. If there are any Moomba reps out there that can help me out with this, please chime in...I think all Moomba/Supra owners would appreciate it. Same for any other Moomba/Supra owners experiencing similar problems.

I completely understand the normal wear and tear of a boat can lead to this type of damage, but a 10 year old boat that has been well taken care of (garaged) with less than 260 hours on it should not be experiencing these defects.

We were very excited about the thought of purchasing a new Mojo in the next 2 years (came close to one before deciding to go used), but I will have to think twice about Moomba/Supra. I've had no other issues with it but this experience has been a real PITA. I asked the repair shop to look for any other weaknesses in the fiberglass and to take pictures. I will post them soon.

Thanks again for your advice and comments.

[ranger098]

Really sorry to hear about your issue... On the upside fiberglass jobs dont typically take terribly long, and i would think you and the fam can get back out this year still... as long as they dont find any new issues along the way... keep us posted!

[sivs1]

Hey, on the bright side, you've learned a ton in regards to getting in there and getting dirty, once it's fixed you'll have a great running boat. Good luck, keep us posted.

[OJT23]

Yes, very true. He told me 2-3 weeks. Should be back on the lake by the 4th! We'll see what happens.

[wolfeman131]

Oh so sad. According to the Progressive insurance adjuster and my repair guy, it looks like a hull defect. The fiberglass delaminated from the structure and started flapping against the it, eventually causing a crack in the fiberglass and softening of the surrounding fiberglass. It's a shame Moomba won't cover it. since I discovered it last week, a total of four guys have told me that Moombas and Supras have had this issue in the past. However, unless you are the original owner, there is no "lifetime" warranty to cover it. I think they've changed their policy, which is good, but owners of older Moombas are out of luck. If there are any Moomba reps out there that can help me out with this, please chime in...I think all Moomba/Supra owners would appreciate it. Same for any other Moomba/Supra owners experiencing similar problems.

I completely understand the normal wear and tear of a boat can lead to this type of damage, but a 10 year old boat that has been well taken care of (garaged) with less than 260 hours on it should not be experiencing these defects.

We were very excited about the thought of purchasing a new Mojo in the next 2 years (came close to one before deciding to go used), but I will have to think twice about Moomba/Supra. I've had no other issues with it but this experience has been a real PITA. I asked the repair shop to look for any other weaknesses in the fiberglass and to take pictures. I will post them soon.

Thanks again for your advice and comments.

Sorry to read about the bad news, but are you really bitching about a 10 yr old boat that you failed to have fully & properly inspected before buying?

[OJT23]

Huge mistake on my part by not getting an inspection. No doubt.

However, I'm surprised of the problems that folks have had with moomba/supra fiberglass. I'm more surprised at how the manufacturer is dealing with them. Is it a lifetime warranty or not? Both the insurance adjuster and repair shop said it developed over time due to a manufacturer's hull defect. It's not covered because I'm the second owner and not the first? What a bunch of bs. I asked SC if they could at least just look at it, but they said in no way is it covered.

My body shop guy said there were more moombas coming into his shop for body work than any other inboard manuf. he's said the early to mid 2000s especially.

Live and learn. Hopefully he doesn't discover more problems once he opens it up.

[OJT23]

Here are videos showing the damage. It looks like the fiberglass ski locker tub was rubbing on the hull's fiberglass and created a weak spot, causing the crack/delamination. The repair shop is going to go over the hull in that area under the ski locker with extra matting to thicken up the fiberglass. What sucks is he is going to have to cut the ski locker to access the hull fiberglass from the inside. He will try to patch it up but its not going to look the same.

outside of hull: http://s113.photobucket.com/user/ojt23/media/IMG_1825_zps93612a89.mp4.html?sort=3&o=1
in ski locker: http://s113.photobucket.com/user/ojt23/media/IMG_1828_zpsa6efc3a2.mp4.html?sort=3&o=0

I read in another post that there is foam under there, and that it is supposed to be a dry area. There is still water sitting in there, I'm sure from water penetrating the crack, so I guess re glassing the entire area beneath the locker will alleviate that issue. Not sure if we need to reinstall the foam or what the purpose of the foam is. Maybe buoyancy?

Here is a link to the discussion about water in the ski locker. I wonder if these guys were actually experiencing water penetration through the hull and didn't realize it at the time.

https://forum.moomba.com/archive/index.php/t-13043.html

Sorry about my rant....but my goal here is to inform other boaters or future boat owners so they don't go through the same thing some of us have.

One last thing....food for thought. I asked my fiberglass guy who made the best fiberglass boat (thickest and best hulls, NOT features, luxury options, etc) and he said....

#1. Cobalt
#2. Ranger
#3. Mastercraft

The worst were:
#1. Bayliner
#2. Sea Ray
#3. Moomba (mid 2000s. Hasn't had many since.)

It's was painful for me to hear, and I'm sure the newer Moombas are thicker and better....I hope, but again, it's just an opinion from a guy who has been in the fiberglass repair business for 30 years. He worked for Glastron a LONG time ago for quite awhile but after that he opened his own shop. No affiliations with any manufacturer since.

[jmvotto]

sorry to see this, was this a private transaction or from some sort of used boat dealer etc,?