Moomba Flow The new Wake Enhancement Device [Archive]

mmandley

12-19-2013, 06:52 PM

Here is the official release of the new Moomba Flow system.

http://moombaboats.blogspot.com/2013/12/go-with-flow-moomba-boats-flow-surf.html?spref=tw

I know I'll be getting one on Beastia as soon as AWS can get one for me.

From the waves it looks to add considerable length to the wave. I know camera angles play a lot on perception of your wave but when looking at the corner of the boat and the distance to the board it looks pretty decent. I have several of those angle shots and the board looks a lot closer still.

Also it mentions in the article about weighting but I don't see where its saying if you weight even or offset.

I would have to venture that with the way that Mojo is sitting in the water its running 1100 to 1500 rear bags.

I know on mine I have the Enzo 1500's and the water line is at the MOJO 2.5 stickers.

Waiting on AWS to get me pricing info and other details.
Man after this is on I'll be seriously counting days till I see no rain to test it out LOL. I think my wet suit will get as much of a workout as Boonejeeping's does. No wait, I refuse to wear my wetsuit in July-Sept LOL

KG's Supra24

12-19-2013, 06:57 PM

"device that transforms wakeboarding wakes to fun versatilely shaped surf waves without adjusting ballast"

I've never intentionally wakeboarded with offset weight.

mmandley

12-19-2013, 07:19 PM

"device that transforms wakeboarding wakes to fun versatilely shaped surf waves without adjusting ballast"

I've never intentionally wakeboarded with offset weight.

Thats where I was confused if you now run the boat evenly weighted like Malibu and Nautique.

I'm not even sure if the Swell is offset or equal weight.

Not sure how my wave will look if i go 4500lbs by filling all my ballast.

KG's Supra24

12-19-2013, 07:28 PM

The swell is designed for even weight also.

Only one way to find out on the ballast ... fill it up!!

jester

12-19-2013, 07:33 PM

This is still only one page. I thought this subject would be flowing with posts once I read the release on Facebook this morning.

Mike it is not raining right now. Lets get it installed and go for a run. I really want to see this in action in person.

Since it looks like just a bolt on feature I wonder what it does to the older Moomba line that does not have " surf-optimized running surfaces" or if the dealer will install it?

Also I do not know if anyone can get more use out of their wetsuit then Boonejeeping does.

jester

12-19-2013, 07:37 PM

Mike also the video says "wakeboard to wakesurf in seconds" This would have to mean even weight since no Moomba Ballast system is that fast.

kriley

12-19-2013, 08:00 PM

So after reading the article the new wake enhancement is not for the LSV?? It says it is only for the Mondo and the Mojo - if this is true it kinda sucks... Is this true??

Boonejeepin

12-19-2013, 09:05 PM

Mike- You know me and my love for neoprene.

Boonejeepin

12-19-2013, 09:07 PM

So after reading the article the new wake enhancement is not for the LSV?? It says it is only for the Mondo and the Mojo - if this is true it kinda sucks... Is this true??

Rick Tinker indicated that LSV will have something available soon.

wolfeman131

12-19-2013, 09:45 PM

Even weight and that vid is of stock ballast. The LSV version is still under development as that hull design is different than the M series, but the FLOW system will be available come boat show season for folks to check out.

brain_rinse

12-19-2013, 10:09 PM

Looking forward to the LSV release and pricing info

muehlcj

12-20-2013, 06:17 AM

Anyone notice that the swim platform bracket has been modified for '14?

jstenger

12-20-2013, 08:29 AM

Anyone notice that the swim platform bracket has been modified for '14?
Yes. I believe they are the same brackets that Supra has been using.

mmandley

12-20-2013, 09:54 AM

Anyone notice that the swim platform bracket has been modified for '14?

Yes the ones we have on the 13 are already jacked up with the screws to tighten it. They striped out and the dealer had to remove them. They installed larger SS bolts. Those are bottomed out and bent, all its doing is destroying my brackets. AWS is supposed to be checking on installing new 14 brackets on my boat to fix this problem.

TJockey

12-20-2013, 10:09 AM

This looks pretty cool! Am I still going to want to add additional ballast or will the FLOW system take care of that? I think I already know the answer.....guess I'm just trying to be cheap.

rbeckner27

12-20-2013, 11:03 AM

I was told that the lsv version will be available come April and the price should match the mojo and mondo at 900 in parts 1100 with install.

saskie99

12-20-2013, 01:06 PM

I dont have a boat upgrade in my near future so I need some one who is the know how to build one for 05 lsv!!!

trayson

12-20-2013, 01:22 PM

I'm kind of surprised that Skier's choice is putting out two different surf enhancement systems--one for the Moomba and one for the Supra. I would have honestly expected to see the SWELL system simply be put on the Moomba.

Not that I mind, as the idea of a manual tab is something I've been considering building myself. This is a different take on it, as I was pretty much going to copy the NSS but make it manually actuated.

KG's Supra24

12-20-2013, 02:04 PM

The swell system is very automated and integrated with the vision system. Doubt it's a cost the value line can justify.

As someone else mentioned, it would be nice if the swell (or automation) was an option on moomba in future years.

The simplicity offers alot of bang for the buck.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

jstenger

12-20-2013, 02:22 PM

I'm kind of surprised that Skier's choice is putting out two different surf enhancement systems--one for the Moomba and one for the Supra. I would have honestly expected to see the SWELL system simply be put on the Moomba.
I think the reason is that the Supra has rear hard tanks and the Moomba does not. The lower transom is more accessable for strengthening and mounting hardware on the Supra since it is not filled with foam like the Moomba. It looks like the Flow on the Moomba is mounted quite a bit higher than the Swell on the Supra. All the hardware for the Flow looks like it might be located above the rear floor.

bergermaister

12-20-2013, 02:44 PM

The simplicity offers alot of bang for the buck.

^ That right there says it. Plus less to go wrong.

Our friends opted for a manual wedge vs. actuated on their Bu for that very reason. Not a big deal (for us) to reach back to lift/lower when desired.

sandm

12-20-2013, 06:31 PM

this looks very similar to nss. not sure how they get away with it and 'bu is getting sued?

nice to see an addon at an attractive price that doesn't have a lot to go wrong.

Wax

12-20-2013, 10:51 PM

Curious to see if the LSV one will possibly retrofit to older boats.

Boonejeepin

12-21-2013, 02:29 AM

Curious to see if the LSV one will possibly retrofit to older boats.

Only the top deck changed on the "new" LSV. Should work with the last generation as well.

jmvotto

12-21-2013, 09:51 AM

moombahighrider

12-21-2013, 10:02 AM

Not sure these will go unnoticed in the court system, depending on the result of the malibu suit.

Love to see it on the xlv too as a retro fit. Seems pretty simple to redesign the plate, only problem I see is if you forget it's deployed and go faster than 12 mph you may do some stern damage.

This is exactly what I am thinking. I love the idea of the simplicity of it and would love it on my boat, however I would pay more for the 'automated' version, if that ever became available, simply so that there was less chance of forgetting to pull it back in for higher boat speeds. Also, I like the idea of changing it on the fly to see the wave change shape as you travel.

I am into electronics, so the idea of something not working correctly doesn't really bother me that much- I can probably fix it, if need be.

Mobius22

12-21-2013, 12:50 PM

Boonejeepin

12-21-2013, 03:03 PM

I would pay double for parts if Skier's would make a few for the loyal XLV owners.

jester

12-21-2013, 03:46 PM

I would pay more for the 'automated' version

There is always a automated version. It is called. "Hi boat crew. Get up and move the wakesurf plate to this setting." Depending on how well you train your boat crew it could be one word and you do not even need to move a finger.

Now that it is released can we get a road map on what boats/years SC will be making it for. Not all of us are MoJo owners and would like to know.

jmvotto

12-21-2013, 06:07 PM

I would pay double for parts if Skier's would make a few for the loyal XLV owners.

Amen brother boon!!!

muehlcj

12-21-2013, 07:40 PM

uniwarking

12-22-2013, 08:43 PM

Yes the ones we have on the 13 are already jacked up with the screws to tighten it. They striped out and the dealer had to remove them. They installed larger SS bolts. Those are bottomed out and bent, all its doing is destroying my brackets. AWS is supposed to be checking on installing new 14 brackets on my boat to fix this problem.

I ran into the same problem, dealer changed out my brackets but I'm sure it will be loose again by the end of next season. We didn't even do much for surfing and we still have the stock ballast. I noticed the '14 brackets when my dealer got their first 14 in and contacted Moomba.... I was told the bolt pattern didn't match and that there was extra material in the transom on the '14 models. They certainly took a step forward with the new design, it is solid.

With that said, I'm super excited for this option and I'm happy to see its available as an add on. I was hoping for something similar to the supra system (with much more basic switch type controls), but this has too be more reliable and more cost effective. I'm very interested to see what these will cost... Would be awesome to start out the season with the boat surf ready.

Has anyone on the board been able to try the system? How does it compare to the ballast mods people have put in the Mojo?

brain_rinse

12-30-2013, 12:16 PM

I wish it wasn't winter. Looking forward to some real world experience on this. And of course the release of the LSV version...

Sharpshooter

12-30-2013, 12:37 PM

Already on the list for the first one into my dealer for the LSV, should be out in march

2013 Moomba LSV

costanza

12-31-2013, 11:04 AM

Any talk of something for Outback V owners? :(

wolfeman131

12-31-2013, 11:55 AM

Any talk of something for Outback V owners? :(

YES!

an upgrade to a Mondo . . . .

sorry about that. I'm in the office today so I'm not in a real good mood.

jmvotto

12-31-2013, 12:40 PM

what about My 12 XLV.... Drew Cheer up , you can go drinking soon enough!!!!

wolfeman131

12-31-2013, 01:07 PM

YES!

an upgrade to a Mojo . . . .

jester

12-31-2013, 02:02 PM

Drew that sucks you have to work today but you can be nice and buy me the Mojo then and I can pay to have the flow installed.
The thing that still gets me if you watch the new video with the product manager he says it was designed for the Moomba line. He does not say it is only for the Mondo and Mojo. Might be splitting hairs but it is the little things that give me more questions.

wolfeman131

12-31-2013, 05:19 PM

I think Matt was simply referring to the "Moomba line" as clarification and that SWELL is for the Supra line.

jstenger

12-31-2013, 07:13 PM

Mike posted this link over on Facebook.

http://vimeo.com/82967885

It's an in depth look at the Moomba Flow.

jmvotto

12-31-2013, 07:40 PM

I think Matt was simply referring to the "Moomba line" as clarification and that SWELL is for the Supra line.

damn hairs.........

mmandley

01-01-2014, 12:41 PM

Next week on the 8th we will be at the Portland Boat Show. I promise to take lots of pictures of the system and the deployment methods. I also hope to nail down my price for install on the Mojo and a time to get it installed.

costanza

01-02-2014, 01:05 PM

YES!

an upgrade to a Mondo . . . .

sorry about that. I'm in the office today so I'm not in a real good mood.

LOL! If only it was out a year earlier!! :(
I feel your pain... I'm at work, and it's minus 40 here... That is freaking c-o-l-d!!!!

costanza

01-02-2014, 01:07 PM

wolfeman131

01-02-2014, 03:46 PM

Thanks!! Keep us posted if/when it will be available for all boats (including Outback V)...

the contours of the hull on the LSV and OBV are very different than the Mondo & Mojo. But, solutions are being developed for both boats. I think we'll see the LSV unit late Q1/early Q2 and OBV unit sometime shortly after that. Dealer-installed should be out the door under $1k. I've been told DIY kits should also be available after dealer demand is met. My boat is sitting at the dealership now, waiting for a kit to come in. If it wasn't already, I'd schedule an appointment now with the dealer so I had it installed at the start of the season vs waiting until kits are available for DIY. Or, I'd quickly get an order placed for a 2014 Mojo or Mondo and get a Q1 spray date locked in! :)

jester

01-02-2014, 04:20 PM

I think we'll see the LSV unit late Q1/early Q2 and OBV unit sometime shortly after that.

Drew, That is the best answer I have seen yet. Still want it now for the OBV but I guess Mike will be able to show it off to me first before I get one.

jimmylsv

01-02-2014, 04:21 PM

Wolf , you could be Skiers Choice salesman of the year.

wolfeman131

01-02-2014, 04:41 PM

Drew, That is the best answer I have seen yet.

Really? I thought the "buy a new boat" one was better!

rbeckner27

01-02-2014, 05:41 PM

I have talked with three different dealers in the North Carolina, Virginia, Maryland area and all three have told me that they would not be available to put on customer boats until about the first of February because skiers choice is trying to get them to the dealers first for boat show boats that will be seen the end of January

Was also told that as of this morning only about 5 systems had been shipped for dealer boat show installation and that they were basically shipping in priority order for boat shows.

jester

01-02-2014, 09:04 PM

Really? I thought the "buy a new boat" one was better!

The best one would be Drew is buying us all a new boat :).

wolfeman131

01-02-2014, 09:24 PM

The best one would be Drew is buying us all a new boat :).

What about Drew buys himself a new boat and sells you a really nice, used Mojo?

jester

01-04-2014, 12:31 AM

What about Drew buys himself a new boat and sells you a really nice, used Mojo?

How about we meet half way. Drew buys himself a new boat and then Drew buys me a new boat. Do you thing SC will go for a two for one deal?

RobertJ

01-06-2014, 02:36 AM

Saw the Flow in person this weekend. The system looks great and very simple and clean, perfect for us Moomba owners. I will be putting one on my '07 LSV if it becomes available. I am sure pictures will be posted this Tuesday or Wednesday. By the way, AWS is going to have an awesome booth once again this year at the Portland Boat Show.

trayson

01-06-2014, 12:52 PM

wolfeman131

01-09-2014, 11:50 PM

I got to see the FLOW tonight at the Atlanta boat show and was really impressed with the simplicity of the device. Another gentleman, who is awful particular about his boats, said the FLOW was the highlight of the show.

trayson

01-10-2014, 01:37 AM

I just got back from the Portland Boat Show. They had the flow there. Our dealer that does Moomba also does Malibu, Axis, Nautique, and Supra. So pretty much all the boats had surf devices.

The flow was coolest for me from the ease of retrofitting perspective.

Here's some pics:

Retracted
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-rMZZ_nJ5lRg/Us-GSTs7CUI/AAAAAAAAPq4/7okYrbBfP2I/s800/20140109_175402.jpg

First position:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-c_zUi0ptCds/Us-GRVAUenI/AAAAAAAAPqw/nbVANxYVR2Q/s800/20140109_175412.jpg

Second Position:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-BGaQhQtxbFo/Us-GP36sASI/AAAAAAAAPqo/cAqdvg8y_xY/s800/20140109_175421.jpg

There was a 3rd position where it stuck down a smidge more, but I didn't find that notch until later and don't have a pic.

trayson

01-10-2014, 01:40 AM

I also took a quick video. I know it's shaky and stuff, but it was pretty much impossible to hold the camera, pull the pin and slide the blade all at the same time. Again, I hadn't realized that there was a 3rd position on the flow blade, so it only shows closed and the first two.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYVoRho-4OM

moombadaze

01-10-2014, 08:12 AM

Trayson, thanks for the photos

Wax

01-10-2014, 10:01 AM

Looks like SC did a great job developing the Moomba Flow system, by far and away looks like the most simple and straightforward system on the market, and probably by far the easiest to retrofit to other boats and DIY. Excellent job to Moomba for sticking with the the whole Moomba culture on this one and actually making it an affordable option for everybody.

I'll definitely be calling my dealer and getting my name on the list for one of these!

mmandley

01-10-2014, 10:12 AM

drb59

01-10-2014, 10:58 AM

Great video and pictures guys. This is depressing as I know I will want to add this to my list this summer!

trayson

01-10-2014, 12:25 PM

Trayson thanks for the pictures, guess I wont need to post any now LOL.

I normally go to the VIP night but this year only the AWS Booth was open, wife didn't want to make the hour+ drive for 1 booth.

We are still going Sunday afternoon.

You bet. It was a fun time. I really enjoyed seeing all the different surf enhancing technologies. Tige and Centurion are both doing some amazing stuff. Tige with their taps and then basically putting a piece under their swim platform that makes for an extension of their hull. Centurion replaced the tracking fins with a "cats" rudder that can change the convergence--but they do it from the middle of the boat instead of the tail. Supra of course had their Swell. Active Water Sports had one of those to look at that was off the boat. Damn, that thing was HEAVY. I think the SWELL system counts as extra ballast!!! I never did get over to PSBC to look at the new generation of Mastercraft surf tabs... Supreme and MB had no 'gizmos' and were just going with weight and listing, but quickfill. The Pavati aluminum boat was pretty cool to see in person too. They pretty much copied the Nautique surf system. It's so similar it makes me laugh. I'd already seen and rode behind a G23 last year with the NSS. Of course Malibu/Axis have their surf gates--no new news there.

I did talk to one of the sales guys at AWS about the hull reinforcement for the FLOW. He basically said that the hull is the strongest in that corner anyway, so thru bolting it (with of course beefy backing plates I'm sure) is it. And I asked him about what if you forget and leave it down when you're done and start to take off... He commented as I would have thought--that the obvious rooster tail and affect on your steering would make it pretty obvious that you left it down.

Oh, and don't miss the Mike's hard lemonaid free samples! hahahaha.

trayson

01-10-2014, 12:28 PM

Great video and pictures guys. This is depressing as I know I will want to add this to my list this summer!

Yeah, I'm with ya. The one on the Mojo had the aluminum machined to match the contour of the hull. I was already thinking about if I could make a spacer or shave off excess aluminum to make it fit on the back of my boat. Hell, I even thought of ghetto fabbing it by just adding washers! LOLOLOLOL. It's such a stout and nicely built piece that it's really tempting to just buy one vs. trying to make your own. I guess my Supra wouldn't mind having a little "moomba" written on its ass... Of course where to get the cool $1000+ that it's gonna cost is another story.

wolfeman131

01-10-2014, 03:01 PM

this . . .

Oh, and don't miss the Mike's hard lemonaid free samples! hahahaha.

really helps to explain this . . .

Tige and Centurion are both doing some amazing stuff.

trayson

01-10-2014, 03:05 PM

What? Tige and Centurion hater? ROFL.

Hey, they are certainly innovating and pushing the envelope on surf waves. What's not to like about more ideas and innovations being brought to the table. Heck, it keeps the rest of the players from getting lazy.

tater

01-10-2014, 04:51 PM

So has SC said yet if the flow will work just fine with stock ballast ? Or is the jury still out since its new and its winter if it is still gonna need some extra weight and still have the need for some nose weight ? I have the 13 LSV and was told it wont be available till March for the LSV,I was going to add the IBS and upgrade the 1100's sometime this winter,but if I can save some coin on just adding the flow that would be great,Any thoughts ?

Sharpshooter

01-10-2014, 05:22 PM

Iam waiting on that answer as well, I was going to do the same mods, but I have put them on hold for now

2013 Moomba LSV

KG's Supra24

01-10-2014, 06:27 PM

The Tige Convex isn't new. They may have advertised it as new since the original version was a disaster.

I'd bet you guys would appreciate the extra weight in addition to the FLOW but that's my guess.

moombadaze

01-10-2014, 06:47 PM

well I have what I think is about as much surf ballast as the LSV can handle and love my wave, but will the flow add more length and/or push to my wave ? or could I run less ballast and have the same wave ?

cornrickey

01-10-2014, 07:34 PM

it's the same concept as the surf gates. I would suspect the same ballast characteristics would apply. Less overall weight for the same comparable wave, no list, faster switch times

jmvotto

01-11-2014, 12:33 AM

That plate really looks like it could fit an xlv.... :neutral:

Ian Brantford

01-11-2014, 02:46 AM

That plate really looks like it could fit an xlv.... :neutral:

Yesss.... <strokes beard>

I would much rather pay a grand for this solution than buy yet more ballast that occupies storage space.

zabooda

01-11-2014, 03:35 AM

Centurion replaced the tracking fins with a "cats" rudder that can change the convergence--but they do it from the middle of the boat instead of the tail.

I don't think that design would be the best as it would be affected by large waves and air bubbles. The system would have to compensate for the rear end slipping due to the torque.

marman

01-11-2014, 10:52 AM

Was at the atlanta boat show yesterday and got to check it out on a mojo. Looks promising but my only concern is how hard will it be to move on the swim platform? I jumped on the swim platform and tried several positions. My only conclusion is that one will be on their knees to move around. I had a tender knee yesterday so I noticed this as a bit uncomfortable :-). A life jacket on the platform it will be for me. Did sound like I will be waiting in line to get one though. Atlanta marine will be backed up putting these on. I think Drew is the first inline!

parrothd

01-12-2014, 09:44 AM

Why not whoever is surfing gets in the water and sets it to what they like... :eek:

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

clarkely

01-12-2014, 05:54 PM

Why not whoever is surfing gets in the water and sets it to what they like... :eek:

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

If you start in the water.....I prefer platform start...

mmandley

01-13-2014, 03:16 PM

Finally got to the boat show. Saw the Mojo they had with the flow. I like the system, ease of operation, and the no fail of electronics.

Talking to Matt with AWS and they pre ordered enough Flow Systems for all their boats. Plus 1 for mine. That's what I'm talking about.

chadjitsu1

01-13-2014, 03:22 PM

patrick232

01-13-2014, 04:26 PM

The only thing I might change is the size of the ring you pull to change the position or add a little rope to it. Other than that very sinple to operate. Looked at the Supra system and before I could comment the wife said HE!! NO when she seen the price.

Wax

01-13-2014, 04:31 PM

I also saw this over the weekend at the ATL boat show. I am not totally sold on it yet. If I have to still load up one side of the boat with water then I'm totally out on it. If it works and they make it for the LSV then I will absolutely go out and immediately buy one.

I am waiting to see how it all pans out though first before jumping on board.

I'm thinking with physics in mind...the height of the wave will be primarily due to the weight of the boat. All this system is doing is changing the convergence of the wake by extending the hull (sideways, so one side is wider than the other from center, unlike Surfgate that makes one side longer). I have not seen this system in action, but I just don't see how in the world it would make the wake much "bigger" (i.e. taller). It may change the shape of the wake to make it more "surf-able", but I don't see how it could physically make it taller unless the effect of the convergence being later may allow the wake to develop a little further with a small increase in size, but I don't think they are making these systems so that you can go ballast-less.

The benefit I think that comes from all of these systems is you could essentially run as much weight as possible and even weight in both sides of the boat and still have a good (or better) surf wave then trying to make the boat list using weight. I run 1100 left locker and 0 right locker...now I could run 1100 in each (or just my current 550 in right), adding more total weight to my boat, which should make the wake bigger. I would be willing to bet you could run your normal wakeboard ballast setup and then use the Flow system for surfing and not have to change any ballast. I think that's the biggest benefit, is not switching ballast between the two sports, which is a HUGE plus in my book. There are so many times we want to switch back and forth since I wakeboard a lot more than my family or friends, but it's so time consuming emptying the 1100 down to around 500 and filling up the 500 that a lot of times I just say "screw it, I'll wakeboard tomorrow" since everybody else just wants to surf.

moombadaze

01-13-2014, 04:32 PM

I am waiting to see how it all pans out though first before jumping on board.

Me, I'm just waiting on Drew's report, if he say's is worth it, then it may be going on

Sharpshooter

01-13-2014, 04:41 PM

Me, I'm just waiting on Drew's report, if he say's is worth it, then it may be going on

Yea what he said

mikenehrkorn

01-13-2014, 05:35 PM

Me, I'm just waiting on Drew's report, if he say's is worth it, then it may be going on

Yea what he said

Pretty much what I was thinking -- the "brains" of this forum will be providing me all the R&D that I need to make a decision!!! (no pressure)

mmandley

01-13-2014, 07:21 PM

Heres another article that was just released on the FLOW.

http://moombaboats.blogspot.com/2014/01/boarders-magazine-article-on-moomba.html?spref=fb

My understanding is its not there to make the wave bigger, it reshapes the wave. It also will cause it to form farther back behind the boat, making the wave longer. Its also designed to work with the boat evenly weighted. Hence the talk about switching from wake boarding to wake surfing instantly.

I respect Drews thoughts on this device but knowing the difference between the Mojo wave and whats considered by the public on the best waves behind other boat manufacturers. Only thing the Mojo really needs is Length to its waves, and this device is said to give it just that. So I'm all in and on-board with the Flow.

Sharpshooter

01-13-2014, 07:34 PM

Any price quotes from any of the dealers at the boat shows (installed)

mmandley

01-13-2014, 08:31 PM

I didn't ask sorry lol

wolfeman131

01-13-2014, 09:43 PM

Any price quotes from any of the dealers at the boat shows (installed)

Should be right around $1,000

wolfeman131

01-13-2014, 09:51 PM

Don't wait on me. Take Matt Brow's advice and go check out a local dealer and demo it for yourself.

zabooda

01-13-2014, 10:25 PM

I think the height of the wave is dependent of the displacement of the boat and the device offsets the convergence so the rooster tail is directed to one side or the other.

bkearney

01-16-2014, 05:12 PM

ok... I have a 2003 LSV.. Any chance? I may be able to see the MRS on this over a brand new boat.

rbeckner27

01-16-2014, 10:24 PM

Ordered mine today from the dealer I bought my boat from and she told me should would sell it to me at cost which was $1150 talked with two other dealers that offered to get it for me for $1350. Should hopefully be here in a few weeks. She said it includes installation instructions so I might contemplate a self install instead of taking it to a local dealer.

uniwarking

01-19-2014, 11:31 PM

I sent a note to my dealer a while back and they just got back to me this week. They said that it was indeed possible to add this to a '13 Mojo but that it would require additional fiberglass structure to be added and would void my hull warranty. I'm a little concerned by this, anyone else heard the same story? Dealer installed factory kits voiding warranty... doesn't give me a warm fuzzy. $1150 just in parts also seems pretty steep.... I understand there is R&D involved and there has to be some margin.... but labor and materials would much less. If additional fiberglass is required I could see this being more in the $1,500 territory.

If additional fiberglass work is needed, I will probably also investigate switching to the new '14 swim platform bracket design as the non-current design was a failure in my opinion. I believe that's what they said was the difference in the new bracket mounting, additional material for the lag bolts to anchor.

If it were possible to install the flow and convert the swim platform at a reasonable price and not void the warranty, I would be a happy camper. I'd love to hear some performance reviews as well. My dealer is pretty small time so they only have a few Moomba's throughout the year. We're wanting to get into surfing this year and I'd like to avoid additional ballast... the Mojo is touted as a "surfing machine" but it's unsurfable out of the box.

Regardless, April can't come soon enough....

uniwarking

01-21-2014, 12:55 PM

Bumping for visibility...

RickT

01-21-2014, 02:14 PM

Adding a Flow device to a 2013 Mojo does not invalidate the warranty, so long as installed by an authorized dealer.

uniwarking

01-21-2014, 02:27 PM

Adding a Flow device to a 2013 Mojo does not invalidate the warranty, so long as installed by an authorized dealer.

Rick, thanks for this piece of information. I found it quite unusual that a dealer installed factory kit would void the warranty. I will discuss further with my dealer (I assume they are authorized). I'm really excited to try the new system out!

Riding23

01-21-2014, 03:24 PM

I'm hoping to get out this upcoming weekend to demo the new Flow system on a 2014 Mojo with 1100 sacs in the rear compartments, I am coming from an 04 XLV so should be quite a bit different. i will get as much video and photos as I can! Just hoping for warm weather here this weekend so it pans out!

rbeckner27

01-21-2014, 03:43 PM

Just talked with roger from SC he informed me that no hull work is needed for the 2013 mojo flow system.

smorris7

01-22-2014, 11:11 AM

I am assuming no work would be needed on the 12 Mojo? Hull is the same on 13 and 14 right?

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mikenehrkorn

01-22-2014, 12:09 PM

I talked with a dealer at the Chicago show that indicated that the Flow was not designed specifically for the Mondo and Mojo hulls and the only thing needed to retrofit the device to the other models was simply to mill a different bracket to the contour of the hull of the other models. He predicted that it should be available in the March / April timeframe which I believe someone else (Drew?) in this thread mentioned.

Sounded like great news to this OBV owner who has a goofy surfer in his crew!!!

reeder

01-22-2014, 01:15 PM

I like the sounds of that:D

saskie99

01-22-2014, 03:41 PM

I like the sounds of that:D
So the 08 obv is the same hull as the 05 lsv........ correct? Please please please moomba make one to fit my boat!!

KSmith

01-22-2014, 03:51 PM

Mfeeney

01-22-2014, 09:45 PM

Please post a video or some comments. Can't wait to hear/see this device in action

Woody929

01-22-2014, 09:56 PM

Don't know if I've seen this mentioned, but is the cost of the Flow for both port & starboard sides, or just one?

wolfeman131

01-22-2014, 10:09 PM

The comment about the device being designed only for certain boats, I believe, is accurate but the mounting brackets are unique to each hull. The Mojo and Mondo have very similar transom hull designs. The other models do not. There is a very pronounced "hook" to the LSV hull. My guess is that this is impeding the design process. The bracket looks to be a piece of milled aluminum & there would/will be a lot to cut out on the LSV hull. But, I do think it will happen.

I also think a FLOW will be developed for the NGOBV (2009+ hull). Similar obstacle to overcome with that hull as the LSV.

I think those that do not have a hull that is currently in production are not going to be able to purchase a FLOW device. I have no "inside info" supporting this, but from a business perspective, it really doesn't make sense.

There are videos and pics of the device in action already on the internet. Search and you'll find them.

Price is for a complete system - FLOW tabs on each side of the boat.

Woody929

01-22-2014, 10:18 PM

Thanks Drew. I'm sure someone (Ron) will have it by the Jam - if they have the LSV option by then - and I'll go from there.

uniwarking

01-22-2014, 11:19 PM

I would love to see some vids/reviews of the Mojo with the Flow and stock G3D ballast.

uniwarking

01-23-2014, 08:31 AM

I just received a quote of $1550 ~ $1750 for the flow installed... quite a bit higher than I'd hoped.

mcdye

01-23-2014, 08:47 AM

I would love to see some vids/reviews of the Mojo with the Flow and stock G3D ballast.

The pictures taken are with stock ballast according to rep at boat show.

Sharpshooter

01-23-2014, 09:18 AM

Damn, if it keeps going up in price it better be automated, every time I see a new quote it's gone up. At that price ill just update my ballast

2013 Moomba LSV

mmandley

01-23-2014, 10:06 AM

I just received a quote of $1550 ~ $1750 for the flow installed... quite a bit higher than I'd hoped.

It seems prices are fluctuating, and this very well might be partly dealer, and partly your regional area. I have my Flow on order, I plan to take my boat down in Feb to get everything installed. I will be happy to share my dealer's price for the install. I think it would only be a reference though.

Once mine is on and we have a chance to be on the lake you can bet ill be trying it out, pictures and video.

Last year we where lucky and we where on the lake in March. Thats the earliest we can go to the Lake since ours doesn't open till March 1st.

wolfeman131

01-23-2014, 10:45 AM

It seems prices are fluctuating, and this very well might be partly dealer

No doubt about it, Mike. Different dealers/shops have different shop rates. That's true for anything and I don't think the mfg can't really do anything about it.

mmandley

01-23-2014, 12:56 PM

No doubt about it, Mike. Different dealers/shops have different shop rates. That's true for anything and I don't think the mfg can't really do anything about it.

I persoanlly haven't even asked my dealer what it will cost. To me it a must not an option LOL. I know my dealer will take care of me. Buying 2 boats, and as much gear, parts, service I do, I almost have my own rate for things now LOL. Its always smart to get in good with your local dealer.

spencerwm

01-23-2014, 04:01 PM

I persoanlly haven't even asked my dealer what it will cost. To me it a must not an option LOL. I know my dealer will take care of me. Buying 2 boats, and as much gear, parts, service I do, I almost have my own rate for things now LOL. Its always smart to get in good with your local dealer.

I think Radich at AWS quoted me between $1300 and $1400 installed at the boat show. Seems fair for a piece of factory equipment.

uniwarking

02-03-2014, 04:35 PM

How many man hours should this install take? I wouldnt' think it would be more than 1 ~ 2 hrs.

patrick232

02-03-2014, 05:23 PM

How many man hours should this install take? I wouldnt' think it would be more than 1 ~ 2 hrs.

Sea Ray of Cincy said it took 2 guys about 2 hours for the first one which would mean they bill the customer a little extra than the 4 hours maybe.

mikenehrkorn

02-03-2014, 05:31 PM

What am I missing? I would think you just need to find/measure the location, drill the holes and bolt it on........can't imagine two hours unless a 12-pack was also involved. :)

DaveM

02-03-2014, 06:28 PM

I just attended the Dallas boat show and the Moomba factory rep was there. The wake enhancement is not available yet for the newer LSV models. I have a 2013. My dealer said as soon as its available, they will notify me.
All the manufacturers haves some device now hanging off the back of their boats to enhance the wake, and move it back away from the transom. More room to surf without hitting the back of the boat.

Mobius22

02-03-2014, 08:54 PM

I heard Rick T was in Dallas this weekend so that's probably the "rep" you talked to. I would bet whatever info he shared is pretty accurate ha

wolfeman131

02-03-2014, 09:01 PM

All the manufacturers haves some device now hanging off the back of their boats to enhance the wake, and move it back away from the transom.

Not all.

Centurion & MB still rely only on displacement.

brad460

02-03-2014, 10:27 PM

I talked to a gentleman from SC at the Milwaukee show and he told me the flow bracket is held on the boat by a 3M adhesive and screws/nuts. My guess is a similar adhesive GM has used to mount doors...

In person it looks fairly simplistic in design..I would almost go as far as saying it looked cheap and out of place on the Mojo at the show...IMO

If I were to purchase a boat with this installed from new or install on my existing boat I would definitely get the components powder-coated.

sandm

02-04-2014, 08:41 AM

sometimes simple works.
not sure why powdercoat? it looks very nice when not deployed and when it is deployed, you'll be in the water and moving so what difference does it make then?
the unit I examined in milwaukee looked to have some pretty tight tolerances. powdercoat could mess that up.

in it's current state, those that know what it is will examine it, those that don't will ask what it is since it doesn't "blend in" with the boat and you get an opportunity to school them on Moomba wake technology. win-win :)

BobP

02-04-2014, 10:58 AM

Not all.

Centurion & MB still rely only on displacement.

At some point in Centurions recent past they used to offer the Switchblade as an option. My buddy bought a 2006 avalanche with it installed. It works OK, definitely shapes the wave, not sure it does much for size or length of the wave.

wolfeman131

02-04-2014, 11:18 AM

The Switchblade was a 3rd party offering. Its still around and a few folks swear by it. It makes me nervous from a safety standpoint with swimmers and the force it would seem to exert on the transom.

trayson

02-05-2014, 01:52 PM

Not all.

Centurion & MB still rely only on displacement.

http://www.centurionboats.com/technology/

I think that Centurion's CATS fin is certainly something that they are using to delay convergence. And they have asymetrical trim tabs (they call them wing tabs). So I would say that Centurion is most certainly using tech. Their rep claimed that by using their cats fin to delay convergence, they are doing it from the center of the boat and not from the rear like everyone else and they claimed that allows them to have more push... Whether it's true or not, I can't say. But they're in the game.

Supreme and MB are displacement only...

Mfeeney

02-09-2014, 09:40 PM

Hey Everyone I saw this link on youtube about the new flow system. I know people were wondering what the surf wave would look like with regular ballast

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQzT8nlTx5o

uniwarking

02-09-2014, 11:39 PM

Hey Everyone I saw this link on youtube about the new flow system. I know people were wondering what the surf wave would look like with regular ballast

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQzT8nlTx5o

Thanks for that link, wave looks clean!

moombadaze

02-10-2014, 08:41 AM

nice wave, but what about the regular side

uniwarking

02-18-2014, 02:59 PM

Anyone have a chance to try this out yet?

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rbeckner27

02-19-2014, 01:29 PM

Mine should be delivered tomorrow and I am taking the boat to the shop either this weekend or next to have it installed. I will report back as progress is made.

Birdman

02-19-2014, 09:58 PM

Do you know how much it's gonna cost in total yet

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smorris7

02-20-2014, 07:52 AM

In the Dallas area dealer quoted 1400.00

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Woody929

02-20-2014, 08:26 AM

In the Dallas area dealer quoted 1400.00

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Is that the Slalom Shop?

saskyrider

02-20-2014, 10:33 AM

I have been quoted.. in writing.. 1100 bucks installed.

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wolfeman131

02-20-2014, 01:28 PM

uniwarking

02-20-2014, 02:19 PM

remember, SC doesn't set a price for this as an aftermarket items except the parts cost to the dealer. Some dealers may decide to make 30 pts on it, others 50 pts. Some may have $80/hr sop hours others may be $120. It kinda is what it is until somebody buys a nice CNC machine and decides to break a few patent laws.

Any way you look at it, some of us are getting "discounted" parts cost quotes higher than others are getting installed quotes... Something isn't right about that.

I wish I had the same experiences I hear others describe with their dealers... That relationship has been the only real disappointment in my Moomba ownership experience. I feel like I'm always having to babysit and complain because they've screwed something up... And then I get shafted on pricing.

/rant... No Flow for me

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wolfeman131

02-20-2014, 02:44 PM

Something isn't right about that.

What isn't right about it? Do you and/or your company let others set the price for the goods and/or services you supply? Your company may react to the competitive marketplace, but ultimately the price set is your decision.

wolfeman131

02-20-2014, 02:47 PM

So, here is an idea . . . . .

Call your dealer and ask them the price for 100 FLOW systems. Bet you can work out a per unit price better than just the 1 you want now. Shell out the $$ and sell the other 99 here on the forum for the same, discounted price. Less shipping & handling, of course.

uniwarking

02-20-2014, 03:31 PM

I certainly appreciate a good debate!

Dealers can do whatever they want with prices, I'm not disputing that. I have no ill will towards SC either, they have a dealer cost established and a MSRP.

I'm just frustrated that MY dealer wants $1750 for the same thing another guy is paying $1100 for. As a consumer, that isn't a smart buy... Sadly, I can't just drive down the street and find a better deal.

If someone on the forum where to do a bulk buy, it would appear there are others who could provide a much better deal than I.

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mmandley

02-20-2014, 05:11 PM

Only thing that you should be able to hold consistent is Hours charged for shop time. Not cost.

SC should have an expected amount of Hours to install, say 3 hours.

Then you pay 3 hours labor to install at your shops rate.
The cost of the Flow will vary but it shouldn't vary a lot because there is an MSRP to everything.

Just like buying a Boat, SC can tell you the MSRP of the boat, but the final cost of the boat is always up to the dealer selling the boat.

When we get ours installed I will share the Labor Hour charge, but the Shop charge and the price of the Flow will be different in my world then in yours I'm sure.

zabooda

02-20-2014, 05:38 PM

I lived in both areas and in general the labor rates are cheaper in Iowa. Because it is new, the dealer may not have a grasp of the actual cost of the device and time to install.

uniwarking

02-20-2014, 05:44 PM

I lived in both areas and in general the labor rates are cheaper in Iowa. Because it is new, the dealer may not have a grasp of the actual cost of the device and time to install.

I was quoted the flow at 10% off MSRP + shipping + 2 to 4 hours labor + tax = $1550 -1750 (depending on labor time)

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rbeckner27

02-20-2014, 08:37 PM

I paid 1108 shipped to my door for the system and was told it should be about an hour install I will let you know all said and done here in the next week or so.

smorris7

02-20-2014, 09:36 PM

Is that the Slalom Shop?

Yes it is.

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Birdman

02-20-2014, 10:34 PM

I have been quoted.. in writing.. 1100 bucks installed.

Sent from my apple crushin android device

Nice might have to throw it on

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Sharpshooter

02-21-2014, 09:34 PM

Here's a pic my dealer posted on Facebook of a test run with the flow todayhttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/22/e5abe2an.jpg

2013 Moomba LSV

rbeckner27

02-22-2014, 09:18 AM

Got the kit yesterday. The install looks pretty simple thinking about doing it myself. The instructions actually look easy and straight forward. Just 4 lag bolts and 2 through bolts and adhesive and your done.

wolfeman131

02-22-2014, 11:02 AM

Mine showed up last Tues, but boat is in storage so probably won't get installed for a few weeks. Stupid weather is a tease, too. Some 70 degrees today, but forecasted temps back into the 40's next week.

uniwarking

02-22-2014, 11:04 AM

Rusty, just a note, installing yourself may void your hull warranty.

Drew, I feel your pain on the weather... although I probably wont see the water until mid April.

parrothd

02-22-2014, 01:59 PM

Must be dealer.. Lol

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costanza

02-24-2014, 09:39 AM

Was at a boat show up in Canada this past weekend and was talking to a guy from Moomba (Ken - forget his last name, but I had a great chat with him). He was telling me that they're working on Flow for LSV, but are not going to bother with one for the OBV... major bummer for OBV owners... Totally kicking myself for not getting a bigger boat last year!!! We thought we'd ski more than surf, and then we tried surfing for the first time and have never skied since... hhhmmm - How upset would my wife be if I upgraded...

mikenehrkorn

02-24-2014, 10:33 AM

Hmmmmm, must depend on who you talk to because I heard the opposite from a dealer at the Chicago boat show.......since there is just the machined bracket that needs to match the hull contour I was told they would be creating that for the OBV but it would probably be coming later -- maybe as late as the summer.

From one OBV owner to another, here's hoping the guy I talked to has the story correct and the guy you talked to wasn't as knowledgeable!! :)

wolfeman131

02-24-2014, 10:39 AM

maybe they don't plan to export it to Canada?

the guy I talked to resides in Maryville, TN and said there would, eventually, be a FLOW for the OBV.

Boonejeepin

02-24-2014, 10:49 AM

maybe they don't plan to export it to Canada?

the guy I talked to resides in Maryville, TN and said there would, eventually, be a FLOW for the OBV.

Talk to your guy about at least a small run for the XLV, please!!!!

costanza

02-24-2014, 11:15 AM

Fingers crossed Mike!! I was enquiring about upgrading the boat at the show, so it could be it "wasn't" available in the hopes I would upgrade... That would seriously be nice to not have to only fill up one side of the boat and have extra sacs on the seats...

skyskiwannabee

02-24-2014, 11:56 AM

I hope we can get an answer soon. I just bought an '09 OBV and was going to do a significant ballast upgrade, but also want to keep as much storage as possible. If I can bolt something on and keep my bow open and still end up with a longer surf wake I would be pumped.

Ian Brantford

02-24-2014, 02:48 PM

Talk to your guy about at least a small run for the XLV, please!!!!

+1 here. I'm not even into surfing, but some of my crew are. I got an FAE in part to cut the exhaust fumes while surfing, but it's still a pain to set up ballast. Anything that cuts that bother is worth considering.

mikenehrkorn

02-24-2014, 03:20 PM

I hope we can get an answer soon. I just bought an '09 OBV and was going to do a significant ballast upgrade, but also want to keep as much storage as possible.

As was commented earlier in one of these Flow threads, the need for ballast really won't go away because you will always need the displacement to create the needed wake. The Flow doesn't "create" the wake it just negates the need for the boat lean and just helps to control the wake created.

Sharpshooter

02-24-2014, 03:51 PM

From what my dealer has told me,all you need is your stock ballast system

skyskiwannabee

02-24-2014, 04:32 PM

I understand that I would still need upgrade existing, and I want to. But if I can keep from adding a bag in the front of the boat under seats, as well as not have to add an L to the rear seats, I would be in for it. Hoping to just switch 400's to 750's in the back and be done.

wolfeman131

02-24-2014, 04:39 PM

From what my dealer has told me,all you need is your stock ballast system

Heck, you can "surf" with any of the current stock ballast systems. It isn't ideal, but you can do it. When JJ was learning to surf, she rode the wash at idle behind Moombadaze's LSV.

I understand that I would still need upgrade existing, and I want to. But if I can keep from adding a bag in the front of the boat under seats, as well as not have to add an L to the rear seats, I would be in for it. Hoping to just switch 400's to 750's in the back and be done.

Might happen, but I think the bow weight will help add length to the wave. We'll probably have to see it used real-world some before knowing how it all works. Remember, looks of a wave can be deceiving. I've seen some great looking waves that were weak when you actually rode it.

sandm

02-24-2014, 05:13 PM

From what my dealer has told me,all you need is your stock ballast system

that's a dealer that doesn't surf :)

Boonejeepin

02-24-2014, 06:39 PM

that's a dealer that doesn't surf :)

So true!!!

Sharpshooter

02-24-2014, 08:36 PM

that's a dealer that doesn't surf :)

I guess I should have said, my dealer said all you need is your stock ballast along with the flow system, they took a mojo out this past weekend with the flow and said it was great

2013 Moomba LSV

moombamm11

02-24-2014, 11:09 PM

Talk to your guy about at least a small run for the XLV, please!!!!

+1 Please ask about the Flow for the XLV. I hope Skiers Choice takes care of their loyal customers.

clarkely

02-25-2014, 03:49 PM

Is it possible to put one on a mobius...... Seems like it could be done.... Some modifying or fabbing maybe

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moombadaze

02-25-2014, 03:52 PM

Is it possible to put one on a mobius...... Seems like it could be done.... Some modifying or fabbing maybe

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Your LS hull should be the same as the LSV hull that will be coming out later this year

clarkely

02-25-2014, 04:02 PM

Cool :) will definitely get!!! Easiest most cost efficient way to get the better surf swim platform?? Time for me to start thinking bye bye winter activities and Hello summer

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mmandley

02-25-2014, 07:37 PM

My local dealer AWS has our Flow in stock at this time. I got to check it out, nothing no one hasn't seen already. The plan is to have the boat in the shop later in March and be ready to Surf by end of March.

I know a lot of people are concerned with Pricing. I can't share my price for the unit as that is done by the dealers. What I can share is the dealer said it takes 2 hours of shop time to install. The bulk of the unit cost is the unit its self. Also the unit is costing the shop a lot of money. Even when they sell it to the customer they are not making a very much profit.

I would assume this is due to Moomba has to recoop there cost for the tooling of the Unit and maybe in time the unit will become cheaper.

Mfeeney

02-26-2014, 09:35 PM

Did you order your flow unit from wake makers or Moomba directly?

wolfeman131

02-26-2014, 09:59 PM

Moomba FLOW is only available thru dealers as far as I know.

mmandley

02-26-2014, 11:04 PM

Did you order your flow unit from wake makers or Moomba directly?

My dealer.

When AWS placed the dealer order for there current stock of boats, they ordered 1 extra knowing my boat would get one installed.

Mfeeney

02-27-2014, 07:34 PM

Thank you for the reply

parrothd

02-27-2014, 07:50 PM

mmandley

02-27-2014, 08:02 PM

I guess I'm still confused, does this improve the wave or just allow you to switch sides easier. Seems like you still need to run ballast, just that it's not all on one side...

Has anyone ridden these surf gate waves?

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You still need to run ballast, just now you run it equal on both sides.
It is a manual tab you pull down on the opposite side you surf. Reg surf you deploy the Star tab. Goofy surf you deploy the Reg side.
This does allow faster switching between sides.
It also causes the wave to form farther behind the boat, in effect making you surf farther behind the boat.

I have not riden any of the systems, Swell, Surf Gate, NSS.

Boonejeepin

02-27-2014, 08:46 PM

It really depend on what you want. Easy setup/quick switches form side to side or pro sized wakes.

I think the new surf systems will
give want most people will want/need but to get the pro wave you will need to slam the boat.

IMO having the choice of a surf enhancer and the traditional ballast would be ideal. Easy setup when you want it and tsunami when you want that.

Sharpshooter

02-27-2014, 09:21 PM

My dealer took a mojo out and said with the stock ballast and flow you could easily surf 20 feet behind boat

2013 Moomba LSV

mmandley

02-27-2014, 09:38 PM

My dealer took a mojo out and said with the stock ballast and flow you could easily surf 20 feet behind boat

2013 Moomba LSV

I hope so because with my ballast I could surf in the next zipcode.

Birdman

02-27-2014, 10:10 PM

Can you get it on a 13 obv

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mcdye

02-28-2014, 10:09 AM

I hope so because with my ballast I could surf in the next zipcode.

now that is funny..

parrothd

02-28-2014, 01:12 PM

You still need to run ballast, just now you run it equal on both sides.
It is a manual tab you pull down on the opposite side you surf. Reg surf you deploy the Star tab. Goofy surf you deploy the Reg side.
This does allow faster switching between sides.
It also causes the wave to form farther behind the boat, in effect making you surf farther behind the boat.

I have not riden any of the systems, Swell, Surf Gate, NSS.

I've ridden on the G23 which has totally ruined my experience with my LSV... :) If only I had $150K....

mmandley

02-28-2014, 06:26 PM

Woody929

02-28-2014, 07:26 PM

What are the ones you can't mention??? ;-)

Boonejeepin

02-28-2014, 07:43 PM

Stripper pole

uniwarking

03-01-2014, 12:13 AM

Got the official word today.

Boat goes in on March 17th for several upgrades.
The 3 I can mention are.
1. Moomba Flow System
2. Black out Moomba letters, No more plasti-dip on my side letters.
3. 2014 Swim Deck Brackets.

After some other work is done I should have her back by end of March and if weather gives me 55 and no rain I will finally get my first surf of 14 in.

I'm very curious about #3 here... Last year I was told the 14 brackets were not retro'able. Moomba paid warranty to replace my brackets when my swim platform was wobbling an inch after a few months... But they are still the 13 style so I doubt they will last.

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mmandley

03-01-2014, 12:14 PM

I'm very curious about #3 here... Last year I was told the 14 brackets were not retro'able. Moomba paid warranty to replace my brackets when my swim platform was wobbling an inch after a few months... But they are still the 13 style so I doubt they will last.

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My experience has been less then pleasing with Moomba Swim brackets.
08 LSV would rattle so bad I could hear it while surfing over my stereo. Drove me nuts.

13 Mojo second time out the little factory screws stripped out, dealer had to remove them. They installed some larger 2.5 inch long bolts. Each time we went out I had to tighten it a little more, and a little more. In July due to the bolts putting so much pressure on the brackets, the bottom pin that holds the swim deck in the bracket sheered off and I almost had the swim deck come out of the bracket.

Got new bolts, by the end of the summer, and the current way they are now is 4 bent bolts, that wont come out of the brackets, and the rails on the swim deck are bent, missing metal.

Option 1 is let the factory do a warrenty repair and I get the exact same set up just to go through all this again in 14.
Option 2 work out an agreement on 14 brackets and pay the bill.

Your right on the 14 brackets don't just bolt up. They have to drill some new holes and such. This is part of the reason my boat will be in the shop so long. They will have to do a little gel work on the rear to make everything look right. I will def get you guys pictures of the work after.

This could very well be your next year upgrade. Some upgrades seem like they should be factory but they aren't.

As for the letters, I have 2 people already interested in them.
AWS said they will try to remove them gingerly but ultimatly they dont expect them to be reusable. IDK we will see.

I am mainly upgrading to the black because I'm a stickler for how my boat looks, and just 1 bump on the dock pad makes the plasti-dip peel and I don't like respraying them every few weeks to make them look black. I have to fork out the money for the new upgraded Black letters but in the end I think its money well spent.

drb59

03-01-2014, 02:41 PM

I am interested in the black chrome letters. What is the cost from your dealer or did you order them locally?

rdlangston13

03-01-2014, 03:03 PM

uniwarking

03-01-2014, 04:07 PM

The best part about the surf systems in my opinion is you can instantly go from wakeboarding to surfing without having to drain one side and out a bag on this seat ect ect. The ability to just use one ballast set up and go from side to side and boarding to surfing is a huge advantage. I might actually surf if I had a system like this

Sent from my iPhone

Agreed. The system seems easy and appears to produce a nice clean wave. It also reduces the need for additional investment and lost storage due to ballast improvements.

I want the Flow... Just hard to stomach the bill... Especially with all I've spent an am continuing to spend on Exile gear!

My dealer seems to be a way off from where other dealers are as far as purchase and install cost goes... that's my major hang up right now.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

rbeckner27

03-01-2014, 05:02 PM

Slightly different topic but did anyone read ragboys post on WW about his most recent experience with surf systems?

mmandley

03-01-2014, 05:19 PM

Slightly different topic but did anyone read ragboys post on WW about his most recent experience with surf systems?

Yes I saw that. You have to take what ever review he writes with the understanding he is a Full Sponcered Tige guy. He pays nothing for his boat.

Tige is the only real wake / surf boat with no enhancement device, but I still consider the VX an enhancement because it was developed to help the surf wave.

For me its still hard to listen to someone tell me X boat is better or worse then another in terms of the device when said person is not even surfing them. RJ is also going to be very biased due to his situation.

I am pretty good friends with the Garcia's have have surfed several times on multiple boats with them, I think they are a great asset to the surf community but saying that, at the end of the day they are always Promotting Tige.

There was a lot of bad things said about SC <Moomba> at the 2012 Polar Bear due to some onforseen circumstances and not being able to run the Mojo in the event to show what it can do.

I was invited last year to bring my Mojo and participate and let people surf it, I just personally could not accept signing a waiver that any damage done to my boat from people or other boats was my responcibility.

I could go on and on how I felt about other boats waves and compare them to the Mojo. I think the Mojo has a lot going for it with the wave, is it the best I've been on? No is it the worst? No. I am however thinking if the Flow performs as shown in the video's and such then the Mojo will have a serious leg up on its compition in the surf market.

rbeckner27

03-01-2014, 09:16 PM

I am also curious to see if the concept of switching sides while riding will make it into the world championships showing a riders ambidextrous capability will eventually force the Manufacturer's without surf systems to create one.

Any thoughts?

mmandley

03-01-2014, 09:26 PM

I don't think you will see that, one of the things they dont normally show is all the extra weight these boats are running to make those waves.

Sometimes those boats are 5K+ of ballast. You can't just roll that with the surf gate type system. I think this is the exact reason you don't see those system being used in pro surfing yet.

My feeling the whole concept and reason these devices came out was for the weekend warrior who doesn't want to lean to lean a boat to one side, who doesn't want ballast laying in the walkways.

Most people don't need or want a wave the size of mine, nor the size of pro wakes. I think we are in the extreme type catagory when it comes to the amount of ballast we run.

Although my big rule untill this year was absolutly no bags on the floor or seats.

With the Mojo I found I had to run a 450 in the bow on the surf side to really maximize that wave. I really hope the Flow makes it so that bag will no longer be needed.

Mfeeney

03-08-2014, 07:21 PM

Question for you I called my dealer today about adding the flow system to my 2012 mojo. He said he wasn't sure if it could be added to 2012 model year. Do you know if you can add the flow to the 2012 mojo

rbeckner27

03-08-2014, 08:18 PM

Yes the system is currently retrofit able to all mojos

Mfeeney

03-08-2014, 08:32 PM

Thank you for your reply. Looking forward to getting the flow for my mojo

clarkely

03-10-2014, 10:21 PM

Saw it in person..... I like the simplicity..... Took a couple photos.... Doesn't look like it would be that difficult with a molded spacer for the offset on a lsv hull..... 1941219413

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk

Sharpshooter

03-11-2014, 02:46 PM

Iam being told by my dealer the LSV flow should be ready in april,anybody hearing anything else

bkearney

03-11-2014, 02:53 PM

How old of an LSV???? /me hopes 2003

trayson

03-11-2014, 03:12 PM

This is one of the better pictures that I've seen for the flow. I've also seen one in person. Here's what I'm curious about:

http://static.squarespace.com/static/521e7397e4b01c5870ce3cac/52ce242de4b0af18bdd02bbf/52ce2442e4b0e4c878f192e1/1389241413832/Moomba%20Surf%20Stages.jpg

Is it only thru bolted to the hull in the 3 spots? Or is there hardware that I'm not seeing that attaches the base to the hull beyond that is visible from the face?

If it's only thru bolted in the 3 spots (not on the spring loaded pin), then does that mean that the blade is really being held on by pretty much the one bolt that it pivots on and the tension provided by the two bolts that sandwich the backing and the face plate around the blade?

I'd love to see an installation instruction for this once someone gets their hands on it...

mcdye

03-11-2014, 03:35 PM

This is one of the better pictures that I've seen for the flow. I've also seen one in person. Here's what I'm curious about:

Is it only thru bolted to the hull in the 3 spots? Or is there hardware that I'm not seeing that attaches the base to the hull beyond that is visible from the face?

If it's only thru bolted in the 3 spots (not on the spring loaded pin), then does that mean that the blade is really being held on by pretty much the one bolt that it pivots on and the tension provided by the two bolts that sandwich the backing and the face plate around the blade?

I'd love to see an installation instruction for this once someone gets their hands on it...

There is a mounting block that is screwed to the hull that you are not seeing in the above image.

The outer plate you see is screwed to the mounting block pinching the plate that moves.

Go back a page to post #198 for a better image of the assembly.

trayson

03-11-2014, 04:56 PM

There is a mounting block that is screwed to the hull that you are not seeing in the above image.

The outer plate you see is screwed to the mounting block pinching the plate that moves.

Go back a page to post #198 for a better image of the assembly.

Right, that's a great picture of the base. Like I said, I've seen the thick rear mounting block in person. I wasn't sure if that had hardware that was mounting it to the hull independently of the 3 pieces that mount the face to the block. Basically it seems like the "blade" is mounted with the one pivot point bolt and then is kept in with the sandwich effect of the face piece.

I guess I was curious if I was missing something.

jstenger

03-11-2014, 08:12 PM

Right, that's a great picture of the base. Like I said, I've seen the thick rear mounting block in person. I wasn't sure if that had hardware that was mounting it to the hull independently of the 3 pieces that mount the face to the block. Basically it seems like the "blade" is mounted with the one pivot point bolt and then is kept in with the sandwich effect of the face piece.

I guess I was curious if I was missing something.
The mounting block is held on by 4 bolts. The top 2 are thru bolted with nuts and washers. The bottom 2 are lag bolts since they are below the locker floor.

rbeckner27

03-11-2014, 08:37 PM

Joe is right but there are 4 lag bolts on the bottom not just two
The blade is held in place by the big bottom pivot pin and the spring loaded pin. It is sandwiched between the mounting plate and the outer plate. There is a spacer plate on the interior side of the assembly to maintain the spacing created by the blade on the outer side which is held in place by the two bolts on the interior side.

clarkely

03-11-2014, 09:42 PM

I asked Saturday about it for lsv...... Said he had not heard a date yet... But expected it by mid to end of summer..... I have know idea of any credibility that he had...

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brad460

03-11-2014, 09:52 PM

I am still blown away by what they are charging for this. I don't know..uhm..$100? worth of material and manufacturing on this thing....by the looks of it they didn't do any costly development..like I said before it just looks cheap but I think powder coating the outer plate the same color as the boat would help.

rbeckner27

03-11-2014, 10:14 PM

I would agree about the cost the only challenging part about the machining is the mounting plate to boat contour match up but I am sure they obviously have the CAD model for the hull mold, so just cut a section from the model and make that your mating contour on your bracket and your all set with no real additional design work necessary with regards to that part.
What will be interesting is to see if folks start making there own blade designs to tweak the wake since the concept is simple to swap them out. The only concern I have about this would be exceeding the pull out force on the mounting plate.

uniwarking

03-11-2014, 11:48 PM

Yup, the price tag is hard to swallow... certainly understand. Markup for parts, crazy install cost. I really wanted to put this on my boat but I'm not thinking it will happen this year. I'll spend my $1750 somewhere else.

zabooda

03-11-2014, 11:59 PM

It would not be hard to duplicate or make something similar. You won't find anything similar as I am sure SC has a patent on the design.

bergermaister

03-12-2014, 11:27 AM

uniwarking

03-12-2014, 01:10 PM

Perhaps, but I'm sure you would all be completely shocked at the investment required for the engineering and overhead to go from concept to prototype to finished product. Once again, Kudos to SC for coming up with a simple, effective design that has everybody talking.

This is quite true. I work in industry so I deal with these things on a continual basis. R&D has to be recouped in piece price or it's not worthwhile.

At the same time, I would have to assume the R&D for this specific solution is far less than the other systems out there.

There also seems to be a huge range in part cost and installation cost which would indicate there is a fair amount of margin to work with on the dealer side.

If I had unlimited funds, there is no doubt I'd have the Flow installed now. I'm excited to hear some "real world" experiences!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

mmandley

03-12-2014, 01:16 PM

I have to slightly justify the price to myself...

Design work = Cad, Testing, actual water testing, Patent Costs.
Tooling to make the parts
Assembly to make it functional
First Year Production Costs
and then the fact its connected to a BOAT

OK I can justify spending 1-1,300 now.

Seriously there is a lot of costs involved in production of something new. I have spent a lot of time talking to Brian and all the costs that go into Speakers, amps, ZLDs, tooling, shipping, frieght, licensing, patents, and all that.

Its not as simple as drawing a picture, go to your CNC machine in the shop and making the part.

I know they had the Swell in design and testing back in 2012 and it just now came out to the public, I wouldn't be surprised to hear the Flow was in design just as long.

zabooda

03-12-2014, 01:31 PM

You all have to remember that the tower on your boat has patent royalty costs that is still in effect today. Wait a few years and other companies will come out with a flow device that either doesn't infringe on the patent or royalities paid to the patent owner. You can reverse engineer and fabricate anything as long as it is for your own use.

trayson

03-12-2014, 05:08 PM

The mounting block is held on by 4 bolts. The top 2 are thru bolted with nuts and washers. The bottom 2 are lag bolts since they are below the locker floor.

Joe is right but there are 4 lag bolts on the bottom not just two
The blade is held in place by the big bottom pivot pin and the spring loaded pin. It is sandwiched between the mounting plate and the outer plate. There is a spacer plate on the interior side of the assembly to maintain the spacing created by the blade on the outer side which is held in place by the two bolts on the interior side.

Thanks. That's exactly the type of info I was interested in.

rbeckner27

03-12-2014, 06:52 PM

If anyone is interested I might be able to take my mounting plate to work and have them scan the part with our laser scanning CMM to create a 3D model of it for someone looking to make the part themselves.

parrothd

03-12-2014, 07:25 PM

I'll take it! Thought about buying one and making it fit my 02 lsv...

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

brad460

03-12-2014, 08:08 PM

Perhaps, but I'm sure you would all be completely shocked at the investment required for the engineering and overhead to go from concept to prototype to finished product. Once again, Kudos to SC for coming up with a simple, effective design that has everybody talking.

I've been involved in new product development my whole career...

For a complex design I would agree with you 100%..but this is far from a complex design..rather simple...and they don't need to recover all their development costs in one year..pricing is egregious..just my opinion. It should be priced no higher than $500 with simple installation instructions.

rbeckner27

03-12-2014, 08:10 PM

I've been involved in new product development my whole career...

For a complex design I would agree with you 100%..but this is far from a complex design..rather simple...and they don't need to recover all their development costs in one year..pricing is egregious..just my opinion. It should be priced no higher than $500 with simple installation instructions.

I agree 100%

saskyrider

03-13-2014, 01:38 PM

Geez.... not picking on you guys but here are my thoughts.....

We have all these companies that have brought out wakesurf enhancement devices in the last few years... they all are fancy higher end devices that cost a heck of a lot more than the flow does and have more potential for failure (ie: electrical etc). So what does moomba do?? they come out with a simplistic design to offer to their boating customers that has everything you need and nothing more at a real cost effective price and were grinding them on it? I was so pumped that SC came out with the flow and I for one love its simplicity. I laugh at my buddy that bought a 2013 Malibu VLX and cant have the surfgate retro'd onto it.... not only did moomba take care of their new customers they are going to take care of their previous customers as well....

my 2C

geoff

parrothd

03-13-2014, 02:24 PM

Be nice if they'd give some details about the older hulls/boats

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

snyderaaron

03-13-2014, 04:24 PM

I would love to put this on my LSV, any updates on that?

moombadaze

03-13-2014, 04:38 PM

I would love to put this on my LSV, any updates on that?

your hull is the same as the 14's, should fit no problem, us LSV owners are just stuck waiting a little longer is all

Boonejeepin

03-14-2014, 02:29 PM

A couple of borrowed pics of the Flow on a Mojo. Not sure of ballast setup.http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/15/u8e4e5aq.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/15/repe7a4a.jpg

trayson

03-14-2014, 04:38 PM

Greg needs to lose that beard. LOL. Not feelin the lumberjack look.

bergermaister

03-14-2014, 05:23 PM

Hey man - it's my winter look! I'll go back to the handlebar mustache for spring ;)

New Guy

03-14-2014, 05:30 PM

Thought on it?

Boonejeepin

03-14-2014, 06:35 PM

Thought on it?

I wasn't there. Pics stolen from Facebook.

trayson

03-14-2014, 06:51 PM

I asked AWS about the ballast setup in that Mooba pictured above. This is what they had to say:

"This was factory and two bags under seats in bow, a horshoebag would be perfect up front. Move one person to side your surfing."

mmandley

03-14-2014, 08:27 PM

Thats Greg Waters not Greg Berg LOL.

I spoke to Waters after Greg said only 2 people in the boat, Driver and him, so he wanted another on the surf side.
Also Push was real good, had both factory rears filled, weight in the bow is Key, he was able to surf way farther back then normal.

My boat goes in Monday for the upgrades, so you can bet when i get her back we will be going out and getting pics, some video, and rolling old school lean, then new school Flow for comparisons.

Boonejeepin

03-14-2014, 09:02 PM

Thats Greg Waters not Greg Berg LOL.

How could you tell? They resemble each other so much.

trayson

03-14-2014, 09:30 PM

Thats Greg Waters not Greg Berg

You don't think I know that? :o

I gave Greg crap at the boat show too about his lumberjack beard.

mmandley

03-15-2014, 10:59 AM

How could you tell? They resemble each other so much.

Height LOL.

Trayson I know buddy, I wasn't saying you didn't know LOL.

mmandley

03-17-2014, 03:38 PM

Boat is officially in the shop for upgrades.

New Black Letters
2014 Stainless Steel swim deck brackets
Moomba Flow

Also getting a few minor warrenty issue fixed

mikenehrkorn

03-17-2014, 04:16 PM

Never have so many been so interested in another man's work... :)

Like others, I can't wait to see your pics, videos, etc., on how the Flow works!!

rbeckner27

03-17-2014, 04:23 PM

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/18/ve9ypama.jpg
The is a view from the front as it would go on the boat

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/18/4y2ajugu.jpg
View from the top showing the curvature

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/18/depuja5a.jpg
Side view from outside edge.

rbeckner27

03-17-2014, 04:25 PM

Install instructions
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/18/de2ada4y.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/18/muga7ume.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/18/ura9uber.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/18/ysyjunar.jpg

mikenehrkorn

03-17-2014, 04:48 PM

Kind of hard to read the instructions, but it doesn't look overly complicated -- are you going to attempt the install yourself?

rbeckner27

03-17-2014, 06:12 PM

No as I have been told twice by skiers choice that it will void the hull warranty

rbeckner27

03-21-2014, 09:45 PM

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/22/gunapyza.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/22/a2yhaseb.jpg

Got the system installed today. Wasn't able to get any accurate dimensions as I could not get my gauge lab folks very motivated to take them for me and I got tired of waiting. Hoping to take it out and test it some here in the next couple of weeks before it gets warm enough to actually be in the water. My goal is to have the weighting figured out before we get to prime time.

It took the shop 2hrs to install the system as it was there first one. The left side looks awesome, but the right side they didn't do as nice of a job finding the contour of the boat. However they measure the exact same distance form the platform mounts so maybe the mounting plates are 100% perfect. Anyways I am going to get some white silicon adhesive and fill the slight gap on the right side.
Can't wait to try it out.

mmandley

03-26-2014, 02:34 PM

Got er installed. Just need some half way decent weather.

Rest of the upgrades are located here.

https://forum.moomba.com/showthread.php?21535-Bestia-the-2013-Moomba-Mojo/page17

http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu114/mmandley/Moomba%20Mojo/7145_XL_zps9744efb5.jpg (http://s639.photobucket.com/user/mmandley/media/Moomba%20Mojo/7145_XL_zps9744efb5.jpg.html)

mnpracing

03-26-2014, 05:05 PM

is it through-bolted with a nut on the inside of the boat, or just lag bolts?

trayson

03-26-2014, 05:13 PM

is it through-bolted with a nut on the inside of the boat, or just lag bolts?

2 thru bolts on the top
4 lag bolts on the bottom

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/18/ve9ypama.jpg
.

rbeckner27

03-26-2014, 07:11 PM

trayson

03-26-2014, 07:17 PM

Mike did they cut your two through bolts into your rear lockers? Mine were too long so the shop double nutted the bolt to prevent it from damaging my rear sacs. I am contemplating just pulling the nuts off and cut them myself or build a cover of some sort.

Definintely don't want your nuts sticking out too far and damaging the fun bags...

http://www.mfestforum.com/forum/images/smilies/megashifty.gif

mmandley

03-26-2014, 09:39 PM

HAHAHA I honestly didn't look. I will have to take a peek.

wolfeman131

03-26-2014, 09:46 PM

You might have more fun if you ask Claudia to do that.

rbeckner27

03-26-2014, 10:22 PM

I knew I was setting myself up but I couldn't keep myself from saying double nutted.

uniwarking

03-27-2014, 07:35 AM

mmandley

03-27-2014, 12:51 PM

Back on the subject of cost... I saw this on dealer connect...

"Parts orders for Swell Systems are $495 plus shipping, and the dealer supplies the installation labor"

I still feel like I'm being taken on the Flow at the current price point. I would have to think that the R&D and part cost would be much higher on the Swell than on the Flow.

I'll probably pony up the cash next season anyway...

I haven't asked my dealer direct about the Swell cost, but I was told when it came out it was 3K for it.

I can't say the exact cost on my Flow due to my deals.

I did pay around 1K and its 2 hours install.