Moomba Flow The new Wake Enhancement Device

[uniwarking]

1k installed makes more sense.

Lots of margin on these add-on components.

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[chadjitsu1]

Can you elaborate a little on where you saw this info please. I am not 100% convinced that doing the upgrade on my LSV when this is available will be worth it. I will absolutely have to see it to believe it. The swell on the other hand looks like it has much more surface area in the water. I could see buying that and installing it on the LSV even if its more money. If I need to still mess around with filling and emptying sides to surf then whats the point.



Back on the subject of cost... I saw this on dealer connect...

"Parts orders for Swell Systems are $495 plus shipping, and the dealer supplies the installation labor"

I still feel like I'm being taken on the Flow at the current price point. I would have to think that the R&D and part cost would be much higher on the Swell than on the Flow.

I'll probably pony up the cash next season anyway...

[uniwarking]

www.scdealerconnect.com


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[wolfeman131]

FLOW & SWELL are two different types of systems and you can't add SWELL to a Moomba. We will have a Mojo wth FLOW at the Southern Surfest, so sign up for a clinic and ride it. FLOW works as it hinders the convergence of the wake directly behind the boat. Check out pics of the NSS system as it also has very little overall surface area.

[Mobius22]

Can you elaborate a little on where you saw this info please. I am not 100% convinced that doing the upgrade on my LSV when this is available will be worth it. I will absolutely have to see it to believe it. The swell on the other hand looks like it has much more surface area in the water. I could see buying that and installing it on the LSV even if its more money. If I need to still mess around with filling and emptying sides to surf then whats the point.

I recommend demoing the Flow before coming to any conclusions on it based off of looks. It works and you don't need to empty ballast on either side, just deploy it and go. Also, Drew is right. If you want the Swell then you'll have to get a Supra. Likewise, Supra owners who don't want to pony up the extra cash for the Swell can't install the FLOW on their boats.

[chadjitsu1]

So the wake will be just as big as it is now when I have it tilted to one side? I need to go out and test one but I don't see how that's a replacement for loading up one side of the boat.

[Mobius22]

There is no replacement for displacement, however, sinking the entire boat with all of your ballast also displaces a lot of water as well instead of the traditional method of just one side. I recommend taking one out and seeing the Flow yourself. I have and it's pretty impressive for being such a small system.

Here's a video of the engineer who designed it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnOYHrtsydE

[trayson]

I recommend demoing the Flow before coming to any conclusions on it based off of looks. It works and you don't need to empty ballast on either side, just deploy it and go. Also, Drew is right. If you want the Swell then you'll have to get a Supra. Likewise, Supra owners who don't want to pony up the extra cash for the Swell can't install the FLOW on their boats.

Honestly I'm hoping that I get a chance to test them all side-by-side this year. I would imagine that Active Water Sports will have most if not all of the surf systems (obviously not MC) at their Demo days. They carry Moomba Flow, Supra Swell, Nautique NSS, and Malibu Surfgate.

I've already ridden the G23 with the NSS, but honestly it was when I was quite a NOOB and really can't speak to much other than it was smooth and I liked it.

[mmandley]

Honestly I'm hoping that I get a chance to test them all side-by-side this year. I would imagine that Active Water Sports will have most if not all of the surf systems (obviously not MC) at their Demo days. They carry Moomba Flow, Supra Swell, Nautique NSS, and Malibu Surfgate.

I've already ridden the G23 with the NSS, but honestly it was when I was quite a NOOB and really can't speak to much other than it was smooth and I liked it.

I have a sneaky suspension my Mojo will be the demo boat with the Flow. Last year we used our boat for the Demo on the Mojo Surf because they had no Mojo at the dealer.

Mobius I'm with you on the no replacement for displacement but when you think of whats going on, Normally we would run 1500 rear regular, then 1500 total in front for 3K.

Now we will run 3000 in the rear and 1500 in front. Then deploy the Flow boat will sit almost level and have a massive long wave.

[jester]

Mike, Do you know when demo days is yet? I cannot wait to see the Swell and Flow systems in action.

[rbeckner27]

Mike how are you getting 3k in the rear?

[Boonejeepin]

Mike how are you getting 3k in the rear?

Enzo sacks on both lt and rt sides.

[mmandley]

Enzo sacks on both lt and rt sides.

Ditto

I have 2 Enzo 1500s, one on each side, and they fill completely up.
I then have the 500 hard in the center
650 Bow Sac
and I use a 450 in the walk way under the center seat

Technically 3150 plus crew, golf cart batteries, stereo, and BEER!!!

Jester I haven't heard yet but I will let you know when they say a date. Normally its the 2nd or 3rd Saturday of the month

[trayson]

I Jester I haven't heard yet but I will let you know when they say a date. Normally its the 2nd or 3rd Saturday of the month

I sent them messages on their two FB pages. Haven't heard anything back from them... It's in May, right? I remember it was just after I'd bought my boat last year.

[New Guy]

Mike have you slammed it that hard and wakeboarded?

[mnpracing]

Ditto

650 Bow Sac


Did the Mojo go to a bag for bow weight in the newest models? I thought the first Mojo's had a hard tank for front ballast.

[chadjitsu1]

I really hope this thing works because I absolutely despise moving water from one side to the other. There is always someone on the boat that is a goofy footer so you waste a lot of time moving water around.

I run 1100's in each rear locker 400 in the ski locker and IBS in the nose I would love to just fill everything up and flip the gate and be done with it. Actually I would love to just go with the exact weight that I wakeboard at and flip the surf gate out.

I fully understand that there is no replacement for displacement but i get very freaked out having the boat leaning to one side down to the rub rails mostly when coming off throttle and turning. I always have a few freak out internal panic attacks toward the beginning of the year especially when people start moving around with that kind of weight in the boat.

Has anyone ever had a bad experience with leaning the boat, is it possible that it will roll over in the water? I know it feels that way.

[jester]

Mike have you slammed it that hard and wakeboarded?

Mike does not wakeboard. Correction. He gets up on the wakeboard one time a year then goes "Forget this were is my surf board".

[bergermaister]

I always have a few freak out internal panic attacks toward the beginning of the year especially when people start moving around with that kind of weight in the boat.

That's the fun part. Start freaking out the rest of the crew "OMG! OMG!"


Has anyone ever had a bad experience with leaning the boat, is it possible that it will roll over in the water? I know it feels that way.

Center of gravity w/ engine/tranny would be too low to flip I'd think. Taking a big roller over the rear sundeck has a pretty serious pucker factor though.

[Mobius22]

Did the Mojo go to a bag for bow weight in the newest models? I thought the first Mojo's had a hard tank for front ballast.

Not to my knowledge. I think stock ballast is 1300 in the rear and 500 hard tank up front. You can connect an IBS to the hard tank though with minimal effort

[mmandley]

Did the Mojo go to a bag for bow weight in the newest models? I thought the first Mojo's had a hard tank for front ballast.

The IBS is a 650 soft bag, I have mine wired with a separate pump.

Factory Mojo is 650s rear 500 hard tank upfront.

Jester is pretty correct, Although I can get out on a wake board anytime I want, I just suck mice nutts at it. I just have not been able to get the whole thing down.

I can ride switch, side slide, transition in and out of switch and I ride mostly on the Port side of the wave and in the middle. When I go starboard I tend to feel off balance and crash pretty soon LOL.

I do get out and wake board a few times per year but I prefer Surfing. I have been trying to wake skate more but I am having problems getting up.

[costanza]

Any news on when / will the Flow be released for LSV boats?

[parrothd]

Bump!

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[tater]

Talked to my dealer last week,still in the testing phase,could be awhile, he really hasnt been given a time table from SC so could be a month could be three,I dont think I am going to be putting one on this year so I think I am just going to upgrade to the 1100`s and the IBS and wait to see how the flow works on the LSV and its cheaper,could somebody PM me the discount code at wakemakers so I can get to plumbing. Thanks

[Bombguy]

Anybody surf the flow yet? I just dropped my boat at the dealer today to have it installed.

[rbeckner27]

We got out and did some testing yesterday but we had some issues getting the sacs filled up properly so I believe that was the biggest issue but from what I saw yesterday I am still waiting to be impressed

[zabooda]

Testing Phase. You should check into being part of the test.

[mmandley]

Spent the first day on the water with the Moomba Flow.

This being said, I have not formed my official thoughts, as this is only the first day and I need to get more testing done. Same as when we got the Mojo last year it took a few outings to get her dialed in.

Initially we did exactly as I have said to people we SACED it out.
1500 both rear corners, 1500 in the nose via 500 hard tank 650 IBS and 450 walkthrough.

Boat did not like it at all, she was turning 3800 RPMs and growling like a beast.

Wave would not form up at all really. You could see it was too much weight for the Flow.

I started draining the Goofy bag in 25% increments to see when the wave would come up.
Once we got down to 50% apx 750 the Regular wave did start to clean up but still washy. RPMs droped down to 3200

Kept draining the goofy bag and basically went to 0% on it. Wave was cleaned up. Flow still deployed.
Moved our Fat Girl <450 Sumo bag> to Regular side in the bow.

I surfed it and it felt really nice, wave was still huge and beefy, lots of power.
The thing is this is our normal setup. So I really can't say if the Flow is doing anything on my Regular side.

We then went goofy, and learning what we did on the Regular side, we just set up the boat as normal.
1500 Goofy, 500 hard tank 650 IBS and rolled Fat Girl to Starboard side of the bow.

Ran the boat at 2900 RPM and the wave came right up, looks longer to me then last year, which would mean the Flow is helping. Claudia and Curtis surf goofy so they did there thing. Claudia really liked it, Curtis was over joyed.

Watching Curtis surf < I have Video > the wave looks to be longer and smooth like I like it.

I'm on the fence at this point about Flow because I want to put my 900s in and try that out.

What I saw with the flow is the tabs are not designed to be deep in the water, and deploying the opposite side tab does what they say in changing the convergence of the water under the boat.

Sinking the tabs with big ballast like I run, I think the tab is too low to really change that convergence.
Weighting the boat as we normally do allows the boat to roll over and essentially bring that tab back to the water depth it likes. I could have tried just running my bags at a lower % but because they are so long the water weight will be shifting, and I want the weight concentrated in the rear of the locker since thats how other would be doing it.

Stay tuned as we do more testing of the next few outings.

In these two goofy side pics, if you look at the Regular corner you can see a Rooster Tail flying across to the Goofy wave, its not effecting the quality just the visual. i think this is telling me I can sink it a little more but we where running out of daylight. More testing LOL. it does this on my Regular side as well.

http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu114/mmandley/April%202014/IMAG0103_zpsa3934c4d.jpg (http://s639.photobucket.com/user/mmandley/media/April%202014/IMAG0103_zpsa3934c4d.jpg.html)

http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu114/mmandley/April%202014/IMAG0052_zps56b6eba4.jpg (http://s639.photobucket.com/user/mmandley/media/April%202014/IMAG0052_zps56b6eba4.jpg.html)

[trayson]

Why didn't you do a run with flow, then take the 10 seconds to undo the flow and have an instant contrast?

[mmandley]

Why didn't you do a run with flow, then take the 10 seconds to undo the flow and have an instant contrast?

Because at the point we where at the flow wasn't working as intended. We are already A ll the way back to our normal surfing. The goal with the flow is level boat and instant regular and goofy surfing.

[uniwarking]

Do you plan to try it with similar to stock ballast? Your mega wave setup may be negating the effects as you mentioned.


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[mmandley]

Do you plan to try it with similar to stock ballast? Your mega wave setup may be negating the effects as you mentioned.


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Yes exactly. I have the factory 650 rears and 900 rear. Next time we go out I'm going to do that.

Yes I could have tried lots of things yesterday but honestly after not being on the water for 6 months and having 5 surfers I didn't have a lot of time to really test it out. I was hoping it would be as simple as load deploy and surf.

I will get more testing done and get this thing figured out.

[uniwarking]

Hey, I can understand that... I can't wait to get on the water! We had a lovely snow last night... might be a couple weeks... gives me time to install the Exile gear though!

I'm interested to see what everyone has to say on the Flow, this is on my list for next season.

[Sharpshooter]

Great info, maybe I can found out if its worth the money to buy the flow for my LSV or just sack it out


2013 Moomba LSV

[rbeckner27]

I am in agreeance with mike that I am yet to be impressed, but I will say it hasn't had the immediate easy setup and usage that I was maybe inappropriately assuming it would.

[papou]

Isn't the Flow suppose to work with the stock ballast, and keep the boat more level when surfing? I don't think it was designed for overweighted boats . Moomba's intention was to creat a better wave while keeping the boat at a SAFE running position bow down and not listing . I was told this by the north amarican rep at the show.

[mmandley]

Isn't the Flow suppose to work with the stock ballast, and keep the boat more level when surfing? I don't think it was designed for overweighted boats . Moomba's intention was to creat a better wave while keeping the boat at a SAFE running position bow down and not listing . I was told this by the north amarican rep at the show.

Yes exactly. Thats why I haven't said its a bad design or anything.
On the same note very few people run Stock ballast in their boats for surfing or wake boarding.

On that note, even the dealers who are testing the Flow for potential buyers are saying the boats need more nose weight then factory provides.

I have surfed the Mojo with the factory 650s in the rear and the 500 in the nose and frankly it sucks. There is no push at all, and only someone below 150 on an over sized board can surf it. The pocket is so small its like like throwing a dime in a swimming pool and going to find it in the dark.

I understand the point the factory wants with the flow, and I will go all the way down to factory 650s to test it. Watching all the factory videos on the Mojo and the Flow, things aren't adding up.

When you see how much list is on the rear goofy side of the video First picture http://vimeo.com/82335262
That boat is sunk hard. Only way I can get the rear of my boar that deep surfing is with way more then factory ballast.

22 seconds in the clip they have the MOJO 2.5 kissing the water. That sucker is sacked, or its super nose high. Yet we all know from experience all Moomba's like nose weight when surfing.

54 seconds in they show the boat making the wave on the Regular side and you can clearly see the boat is not sunk as deep.
The water is several inches below the MOJO 2.5

59 seconds the Goofy wave is up and they are surfing a massive wave but guess what? The 2.5 is completely under the water again.

1:03 Regular wave the water is back up over the white strip and just under the 2.5 again.

1:18 Goofy wonderful shot down the side and the 2.5 is drowning in water.

My point is, and really trying to be professional here and give the Flow its due credit.

The factory can claim what ever they want as weights in a boat. They will never admit to adding more then the sticker says a boat can handle due to legal ramifications.
When you own that very boat and sink it like I do, and many others, you learn where the water flows on the side of the hull. I don't believe for a second that boat is running 650's and 500 hard tank at all.

Trust me I want it to surf like a monster with 650's in the rear, look at all the fuel I would save.

[saskyrider]

For me I'm looking at the flow as an option for quick change when my crew has riders that ride both sides... when i go out with only guys riding goofy which is what i ride i'll lean the boat over and surf like we have in the past... when we have both sides needed i'll load up normal and just have an extra 400lb bag that we will roll from side to side.... that being said this could all go out the window when i get out there for the first time and play around. With the Mondo i won't have the option of the bag size like Mike has so i'll be sticking to 750 rears, stock middle and IBS up front. I still have 2 400lb bags and and extra 1100lb triangle bag kicking around that i can play with if need be. Bottom line i can't wait!!!!!!

[mmandley]

Here is a Video we did shoot of my buddy Curtis surfing goofy. We are running our normal weights,
1500 rear, 500 center 650 IBS and 450 in bow on seats.

Here I think the Flow is actually helping because the wave does seem longer and its cleaner then last year.

Like I said I haven't said the Flow is not working, I'm just trying to see how to maximize it and make my wave look like the factory video.

https://vimeo.com/92054107

[Jwredmon101]

For me I'm looking at the flow as an option for quick change when my crew has riders that ride both sides... when i go out with only guys riding goofy which is what i ride i'll lean the boat over and surf like we have in the past... when we have both sides needed i'll load up normal and just have an extra 400lb bag that we will roll from side to side.... that being said this could all go out the window when i get out there for the first time and play around. With the Mondo i won't have the option of the bag size like Mike has so i'll be sticking to 750 rears, stock middle and IBS up front. I still have 2 400lb bags and and extra 1100lb triangle bag kicking around that i can play with if need be. Bottom line i can't wait!!!!!!
I talked to Wakemakers yesterday and they were suggesting that the 900's would fit great in a Mondo .. With that being said.. its like a 20 dollar difference per bag from the 750s.

[moombadaze]

Great info, maybe I can found out if its worth the money to buy the flow for my LSV or just sack it out


2013 Moomba LSVsack it out for now.

[saskyrider]

I talked to Wakemakers yesterday and they were suggesting that the 900's would fit great in a Mondo .. With that being said.. its like a 20 dollar difference per bag from the 750s.


OK thats good to know... my dealer said a 750 would pop the locker door open so makes me wonder? I would go with the 900's anyways for the price difference... just fill them as full as i can and go from there...

[mikenehrkorn]

The 750s don't even pop the locker on the OBV so I can't imagine it would on the Mondo.

And I would agree on your decision to get the 900s -- fill as much of that locker as you can!!!

[jstenger]

I put my 750's in the Mondo that I test drove last fall. They had plenty of room. I wish I would have brought my IBS and a pump with me also. The Mondo needed a lot more than the factory 500# hard tank.

[saskyrider]

Thx for the Info guys!!! Much appreciated

Sent from my apple crushin android device

[uniwarking]

Any more info on the Flow with the Mojo? We got out for the first time today and couldn't help but give surfing a try... despite the mid 50's degree water (brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!).

I just have the stock setup. We ran with the surf side rear full, other side ~50% and center tank full and about 5 people on the surf side. I tried 10.5 ~ 11 mph. My brother-in-law is regular, he was up on the first time and next 5 or so but couldn't ever go ropeless... wave was pretty clean but not massive and it felt very close to the boat. I was up next and I'm goofy so we swapped things up... I was up first time but we could never get the wave clean.

I'm sure with some practice and a little tweaking we'll get things better... but I'm not sure what to do next. The flow seems like the "easy" solution but I'm not wanting to drop the $$$ on that... especially with the not so positive reviews. There are very young children in my boat so leaning it and sinking it like crazy are not really appealing either.

Any thoughts?

[trayson]

Any more info on the Flow with the Mojo? We got out for the first time today and couldn't help but give surfing a try... despite the mid 50's degree water (brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!).

I just have the stock setup. We ran with the surf side rear full, other side ~50% and center tank full and about 5 people on the surf side. I tried 10.5 ~ 11 mph. My brother-in-law is regular, he was up on the first time and next 5 or so but couldn't ever go ropeless... wave was pretty clean but not massive and it felt very close to the boat. I was up next and I'm goofy so we swapped things up... I was up first time but we could never get the wave clean.

I'm sure with some practice and a little tweaking we'll get things better... but I'm not sure what to do next. The flow seems like the "easy" solution but I'm not wanting to drop the $$$ on that... especially with the not so positive reviews. There are very young children in my boat so leaning it and sinking it like crazy are not really appealing either.

Any thoughts?

I hate to say it but some of it does come down to skill. I went out last week (in 55 degree water as well). I was behind my buddy's Tige 21v. We had one driver and two passengers when I was surfing. My friend that owns the boat FORGOT to bring the bags. So there we were with a Tige using 2 normal sized people as the ONLY ballast. And guess what, I was able to freeride. Yeah, it took some effort and there were a couple times I lost the wave. But I was able to freeride a 21' v-drive with no ballast because I'd worked all last season surfing.

That said, the right wave makes it a LOT easier and a LOT more fun. But I found out someone that has a little experience can make it happen even without ballast. (and I'm really not that great of a surfer--only been doing it 1 summer).

Regardless, I'm staying tuned for FLOW developments and am anxious to get out behind a boat that has it. :-)

[uniwarking]

Ha, quite true trayson. I certainly didn't expect to free ride or pull of any 360's on the first time out... I just know my wave (especially on the goofy side) was terrible compared to what I've seen in videos and pictures.

I suppose we'll get the wave... And surfing figured out with a little time. I'm just trying to figure out my best options down the road... Flow or sac upgrades. I would prefer the Flow because it is easier and appears to be safer.


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[Mobius22]

I think that stock in a 13 Mojo was only the 400s in the rear so if you want a good surf wave then you need to upgrade your bags to at least 750s. Regardless of using the flow or not, you need more weight than the stock setup for the Mojo since it's such a deep boat. Upgrade your bags, try surfing it, then decide if you want the flow or not.

[hiflyr]

I recommend demoing the Flow before coming to any conclusions on it based off of looks. It works and you don't need to empty ballast on either side, just deploy it and go. Also, Drew is right. If you want the Swell then you'll have to get a Supra. Likewise, Supra owners who don't want to pony up the extra cash for the Swell can't install the FLOW on their boats.

I thought the hulls on the Supras and Moombas were the same shape for the various models, why would the flow not work on a Supra?

[uniwarking]

I think that stock in a 13 Mojo was only the 400s in the rear so if you want a good surf wave then you need to upgrade your bags to at least 750s. Regardless of using the flow or not, you need more weight than the stock setup for the Mojo since it's such a deep boat. Upgrade your bags, try surfing it, then decide if you want the flow or not.

I think they're actually 650 in the rear with a 500 center tank. G3 is standard on the '13 Mojo if I remember correct... I may be wrong.


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[Boonejeepin]

I thought the hulls on the Supras and Moombas were the same shape for the various models, why would the flow not work on a Supra?

I am not aware of any Moombas that share a Supra hull, especially the newer models.

[uniwarking]

Not sure if this has been posted... nice write up at Dealer Connect:

Go with the FLOW! - Optimizing your boat set-up

April 17, 2014


The Moomba Flow surf system’s simple & durable design allows the user to quickly change from wakeboarding to surfing without adjusting little or no ballast adjustment. It also allows for easy changeovers between surfing on the port, or starboard side of the boat. Here are a couple of quick tips that will help you get your boat set up properly with the Flow surf system:




1) The flow system should be deployed on the opposite side that you plan to surf. Deploy that tab only. The tab on the side you are surfing should not be engaged (full UP position).

2) Start with the boat evenly weighted side-to-side. Flow is designed to allow a quick change-over from wakeboarding to surfing, and from starboard to port side surfing. Weighting each side evenly makes the system versatile, and convenient. Putting too much weight on the side you are surfing can negate the effect of the Flow system and cause the wakes to wash out.

3) The boat should be weighted 60/40 back to front. If you put all of the weight in the back of the boat, the Flow system will not work well. One way to check this is to check the level of the swim platform in the water before surfing. The platform should be right at water level or just slightly below, but still level. If the platform is deep under water or at a downward angle, then there is likely too much weight in the rear of the boat (or too little weight in the front).

4) Experiment with the 3 settings on Flow to optimize wakes for the load you are pushing and the skill of the surfer. If you are using stock ballast, beginners will probably do best on the first (highest) setting, as it is a steeper wake with the best “push”. This wake is not as long, but Beginners can easily stay in this wake without much movement, because it is steep. Most riders will enjoy the middle setting, as it is a nice combination between a longer wake and a solid push. The last, or lowest setting creates a longer wake that some advanced surfers will enjoy, because they have more room to do advanced tricks, but still have room to "pump" back in, if they fall out of the sweet-spot.

5) The wakeplate should start at 50% when surfing in any of these positions. You can experiment slightly with the plate to get the cleanest wave possible. Depending on the weight in the boat and the specific model, sometimes you may even have to run the plate all up or all down to get best wave.


As most experienced surfers have discovered, there is no perfect setting in wakesurfing. Ballast, people, depth of the water,wind, and even the amount of gas on board can change the size/shape of the wake. Be Flexible, and try new things when conditions change:
Here are a few extra customizing tips that you can experiment with:

1) If you want to tweak the wakes a little bit, shift one extra person to the side you are surfing.

2) If you have a heavy load of people, or extra ballast on board, you may need to use the lower settings on Flow. The higher settings may cause spray on the face of the wake if you have the boat heavily weighted.

3) If a quick changeover (wakeboard to surf, or side to side) is not a priority, you can always go back to leaning the boat on rear corner, by loading it up heavier. All of the Moomba models are capable surf boats, with, or without a Surf enhancement device. The Flow system is designed to add convenience and quick change-overs.



On-water Demos are proven to be the best way to complete a sale with customers who are interested in an inboard boat. The best thing you can do to ensure good customer demos is to get out and test the boat yourself before you get your customers out. Discover what works best, and then you will be knowledgeable and credible with your customers.
Go with the Flow!

http://www.scdealerconnect.com/product-knowledge.php

[mmandley]

Good advice and frankly the better write up I have seen.

I am headed out today and will try some of this. IDK about the swim deck being level with the water. i guess I'm going to flip that % and go 60 front 40 rear LOL.

Our swim deck sits pretty level with the water when i have NO weight in it.

When I filled all the ballast up a couple weeks ago the deck was more then a foot underwater hahaha.

[bergermaister]

I read that to mean parallel, not even with the surface. Be interested to see how it goes for you today.

[mikenehrkorn]

The platform should be right at water level or just slightly below, but still level. If the platform is deep under water or at a downward angle, then there is likely too much weight in the rear of the boat (or too little weight in the front).


I read that to mean parallel, not even with the surface. Be interested to see how it goes for you today.

I hope you're right, but I read it the same way that Mike did. I think the key question is what do they consider "deep" in that original statement, because even my OBV with the stock ballast (GIII) has the platform FULLY underwater.

[mmandley]

I will post up later today my findings yesterday. Teaser alert, I made it work with positive results but still had to tweak it.

[uniwarking]

I'm looking forward to your notes... I'm trying to see if I should hold out for the flow, upgrade sacks or plan to do both.


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[mmandley]

Making a new thread to go with this one, this one is pretty long and kinda hard to follow unless you read the bulk of it.

[Mobius22]

I can tell you right now that with the Mojo, you're going to want more weight than the stock setup if you want to maximize the wave. Regardless of having Flow or not.

[mmandley]

I can tell you right now that with the Mojo, you're going to want more weight than the stock setup if you want to maximize the wave. Regardless of having Flow or not.

Your absolutely correct, You have to get that boat to Lean a bit. Stock only looks nice from the cabin, not when your in the wave.

This is the new thread I started, pics and Video included.
https://forum.moomba.com/showthread.php?24045-2013-Moomba-Mojo-Flow&p=240880#post240880

[trayson]

I can tell you right now that with the Mojo, you're going to want more weight than the stock setup if you want to maximize the wave. Regardless of having Flow or not.

Yeah, I surfed a mojo today with flow and was under-whelmed. Yep, it had stock ballast and we added the wraparound bow sack under the seats (looks like per wakemakers that's 600 to 700 pounds). The flow equipped boat was "okay" but lacking in the push department. We tried each of the settings and ended up riding at the middle setting. I mean, it was enough to freeride, but not enough to really have fun slashing up the wake.

The stock bags in the rear lockers looked pretty small. Like you could Easily double them and put a 2nd set in on top of the first.

I am sure that you could get it dialed in with the right bags. And I'm sure the flow helps. I could tell that the flow was helping the pocket, almost flowing the darkside wave under the surfside to make the surfside a little bigger.

After riding the flow equipped mojo, I rode a Malibu VLX with upgraded ballast on top of the factory + wedge + surfgate and it blew the poor little mojo out of the water. Yes, it's not a fair comparison, as the Malibu is a TON more expensive and a bigger boat. But DAMN, that Malibu had push for days and the mojo not even close. I'd imagine if you could add the right ballast that the mojo would perform enough to make you a lot happier, but it needs more than stock and a bow sack to have enough push to make me satisfied...

[Mobius22]

Yeah, I surfed a mojo today with flow and was under-whelmed. Yep, it had stock ballast and we added the wraparound bow sack under the seats (looks like per wakemakers that's 600 to 700 pounds). The flow equipped boat was "okay" but lacking in the push department. We tried each of the settings and ended up riding at the middle setting. I mean, it was enough to freeride, but not enough to really have fun slashing up the wake.

The stock bags in the rear lockers looked pretty small. Like you could Easily double them and put a 2nd set in on top of the first.

I am sure that you could get it dialed in with the right bags. And I'm sure the flow helps. I could tell that the flow was helping the pocket, almost flowing the darkside wave under the surfside to make the surfside a little bigger.

After riding the flow equipped mojo, I rode a Malibu VLX with upgraded ballast on top of the factory + wedge + surfgate and it blew the poor little mojo out of the water. Yes, it's not a fair comparison, as the Malibu is a TON more expensive and a bigger boat. But DAMN, that Malibu had push for days and the mojo not even close. I'd imagine if you could add the right ballast that the mojo would perform enough to make you a lot happier, but it needs more than stock and a bow sack to have enough push to make me satisfied...

Maybe you should ride the Mojo with upgraded ballast like you did with the Malibu and THEN make a comparison.

[trayson]

Yes, it's not a fair comparison, .


Maybe you should ride the Mojo with upgraded ballast like you did with the Malibu and THEN make a comparison.

If the mojo woulda been equipped with upgraded ballast, I'd be happy to share my insights.

But I can only comment on what I have done and have access to. This was at a Demo day, so it's not like I could snap my fingers and make the boat have upgraded ballast.

I also rode a $180k G25 Coastal Edition today too, but that's not relevant. I guess the Malibu isn't really relevant either except it showed that there was a lot higher levels of performance for the mojo to aspire to. If I'd never ridden better, I'd never know how high to set the bar.

Hell, the mojo is nicer than my Sunsport. i guess I just confirmed what you said that stock ballast (plus a bow sack) isn't enough to be satisfied.

Didn't mean to offend. I can only speak to what I experienced.

[sandm]

tray. sure that wasn't a 'bu lsv that you rode? mojo is longer by a foot and within 1" of same beam as vlx. price should have nothing to do with how well the boat surfs/boards or rides. the 'bu is a much more feature-laden boat than the mojo but that has nothing to do with actual hull shape.

too bad that for a demo days, there are boats at almost stock ballast and one "slammed". for the uninformed or new consumer, that's not really doing skiers products justice, but as a dealer, bet it makes it much easier to sell the more spensive boat...

[Glanzer77]

Just got back from a demo day where we rode in the 2 boats we had narrowed it down to the Mojo 2.5 and the Axis A22...I was completely UNDERWHELMED with the Moomba and the "flow system" My old 06 LSV with fat guys made about the same wake for surfing, albeit with more work to get it to look like that, but with that said it was OK.

The Axis on the other hand was insane. Within 5 minutes of being in the Axis A22 my wife said, "we are not buying a Moomba." Sorry guys, I loved our LSV, but we are buying an Axis A22 because of the side by side comparison. Surf Gate is the real deal and the rest of the companies are playing catch up right now.

THIS IS MY OPINION...and I am a huge Moomba fan, but for the money, I am now a huge Axis fan. Suppose I have to turn in my user name and password on Tuesday when I order my new Axis????

[trayson]

tray. sure that wasn't a 'bu lsv that you rode? mojo is longer by a foot and within 1" of same beam as vlx. price should have nothing to do with how well the boat surfs/boards or rides. the 'bu is a much more feature-laden boat than the mojo but that has nothing to do with actual hull shape.

too bad that for a demo days, there are boats at almost stock ballast and one "slammed". for the uninformed or new consumer, that's not really doing skiers products justice, but as a dealer, bet it makes it much easier to sell the more spensive boat...

Honestly I am not sure which 'Bu it was. I get the models confused as I've never really done much research on them. My goal for the day was to ride the various surf systems. Sadly we were out on the G25 for so long that I didn't get the chance to ride the Supra SWELL. I really wanted to do that.

As far as the dealership (Active water sports) they have two locations in the Portland area. Their one location does Malibu/Axis and the other does Nautique/Supra/Moomba. As far as what boats were available and how they were setup, they only had 2 moombas there and they didn't get a ton of attention because people were wanting to ride the most expensive stuff that they really couldn't afford anyway. Ya know, joyriding for free! They had a G21, G23, and G25 so of course those were well used. They only had 1 Supra with the flow. 2 Moombas and they had a fleet of Malibus and 1 Axis. So as far as what Malibu I choose to ride, it was basically I wannna rock something with a surf gate. (which was admittedly impressive. It was cool to see how quick they could changeover from regular to goofy while riding.) Same of course with the NSS. Again, I'm sure the flow is legit when dialed in...


Just got back from a demo day where we rode in the 2 boats we had narrowed it down to the Mojo 2.5 and the Axis A22...I was completely UNDERWHELMED with the Moomba and the "flow system" My old 06 LSV with fat guys made about the same wake for surfing, albeit with more work to get it to look like that, but with that said it was OK.

The Axis on the other hand was insane. Within 5 minutes of being in the Axis A22 my wife said, "we are not buying a Moomba." Sorry guys, I loved our LSV, but we are buying an Axis A22 because of the side by side comparison. Surf Gate is the real deal and the rest of the companies are playing catch up right now.

THIS IS MY OPINION...and I am a huge Moomba fan, but for the money, I am now a huge Axis fan. Suppose I have to turn in my user name and password on Tuesday when I order my new Axis????

Were you at the same demo days as me? with Active Water Sports?

[mmandley]

Trayson I'm sorry the Flow let you down, what really let you down was AWS.

I asked them a couple times if they wanted my Mojo there with a Flow thats really weighted. They never said yes so we made other plans on Saturday.

Mojo with the Flow will throw a huge wave with so much push you won't be able to get off your back leg, but your right its not stock at all.

I can't speak on AWS and how they promote the products they sell, I can only say I don't agree with it.

When you get the time your always welcome to come surf our Mojo, I will show you what that boat can do in the hands of someone who knows how to dial it in.

[bergermaister]

Well said Mike.

[Glanzer77]

My family was in Minneapolis on Lake Minnekota.

[trayson]

Trayson I'm sorry the Flow let you down, what really let you down was AWS.

I asked them a couple times if they wanted my Mojo there with a Flow thats really weighted. They never said yes so we made other plans on Saturday.

Mojo with the Flow will throw a huge wave with so much push you won't be able to get off your back leg, but your right its not stock at all.

I can't speak on AWS and how they promote the products they sell, I can only say I don't agree with it.

When you get the time your always welcome to come surf our Mojo, I will show you what that boat can do in the hands of someone who knows how to dial it in.

Agreed. 3200 pounds of ballast in a surfgated Malibu vs. stock plus a bowsack in the Mojo isn't fair. Not to mention that the driver of the Mojo wasn't familiar with the boat at all. In fact, ***I**** was the one that was schooling him on which side to deploy the flow on!!! I had to explain the delayed convergence concept to him, so needless to say, he wasn't an expert. Nice kid, and he tried, but it wasn't someone that had the familiarity I'd have liked. That said, a free ride on a flow is better than being a keyboard commando on the forums!!!

[trayson]

My family was in Minneapolis on Lake Minnekota.

Cool that you had a similar opportunity.

I have to say that I have a newfound respect for the Malibu/Axis boats. I've found that there are different things that I tend to value in a boat, and if I had my choice I'd like:

Playpen Bow with the front wrap around seating that goes into the bow with flip up backrests
Picklefork would be a huge plus as it makes the playpen even bigger
Some kind of surf system (they seem to all have the ability to work if you can dial them in)


I'd love to have an A22 that fits those criteria. But I'll be happy with my Supra Sunsport for the time being...

I would imaine that in the future I could fab up a surf system onto whatever with enough time/effort/motivation.

I'd be happy with the XLV seating. Or a Supra SSV. But I digress!!!!

[Mobius22]

AWS let you down it sounds like, and they're probably going to be hearing from Skiers Choice since Mr. Tinker frequents these forums. I'm sure that pisses them off when a dealer has the Malibu perfectly dialed in with an experienced driver and then the Moomba is with a dude that doesn't have a clue and not weighted properly.

[trayson]

AWS let you down it sounds like, and they're probably going to be hearing from Skiers Choice since Mr. Tinker frequents these forums. I'm sure that pisses them off when a dealer has the Malibu perfectly dialed in with an experienced driver and then the Moomba is with a dude that doesn't have a clue and not weighted properly.

It's hard I'm sure. They did have 2 Moombas on the water. 1 Supra with swell (another Supra that was a customer's I think). They had 3 of the G-series nautiques and 1 of the Nautique DD ski boats.

Then they had the fleet of Malibus. (only, maybe 2 or 3 on the water and an Axis on the water). They had a ton of boats and it was kinda crazy to get "just" 3 sessions that day.

And like I said, they have different halves of their dealership handling the Malibu/Axis vs. the Nautique/Supra/Moomba. It seems in many ways that the event is more about pimping boards than pimping boats...

[marman]

I looked at the Axis brand in 2013 during the boat show and there were a couple of things I didn't like. The first one was I didn't like the play pen area (my wife and I had a disagreement on this one). I also didn't like the bones (the look) of the boat. I ended up going a totally different path with a jet boat. Prior to the boat show I had rented and skied behind everything from a Chaparral to a Wakesetter VLX but never had even ridden in a jetboat.. Temporary insanity I guess. At the end of 2013 I knew I needed to do something because the jet boat just wasn't what we were looking for. So I jumped back in and started researching again, limiting my lengths to 20’ and under due to storage. SC came out with the Mondo so I read a lot, especially on this board. Pricing for the A20 was similar to the Mondo, the axis being more expensive. I visited the Malibu dealer first and I honestly didn't get treated that great in my opinion. I did spend some time looking at the Axis again but still just didn't like the look of it. Bad trade in pricing was the final straw and I ended up walking out of the dealership. Went to Atlanta Marine and the rest is history. Very happy with my decision. I recently added the 650 ibs and 900 sumo’s to the rear and the wake doubled in size. It is just incredible. One of the teenagers on the boat rode with everything full and he said it compared to his neighbors wake behind his 2014 Mailbu 247 lsv when he rode behind it. He said the wake was a little bigger on the Malibu but that they also had 12 people on top of the ballasts being full.

I recently took a wakeboarding lesson from Corey Bradley and spent 3 hours behind and on his 22MXZ. It is a sweet ride but anything with that price tag, ie. Porsche, is a sweet ride. He gets sponsored by Malibu (he rode for Mastercraft for like 6-7 years) so I think they give him a new one every year. He puts like 4000 lbs of ballast in it when he rides at a 75’ rope length. Crazy…

By the way he is great instructor for anyone in the NEGA area. I hope to go back again. He worked my tail off. He’s also on an apple app that is a free download that has some good video instructions. TSO Wake.

[LknLee]

In the spring I was hell bent on buying a new boat and the axis caught my eye at the boat show. I was torn for about 2 weeks on a T22 or A22. Test drove both with surfgate and it was impressive. Long story short my local dealer went back on his words for the trade in. This opened up the door to my local Moomba dealer. We dialed in the flow surf from minute one and never looked back. Moomba Dealer also transferred my stereo system from Regal to Moomba without a fuss which was huge. The Moomba wins on interior and performance in my eyes. As for the convenience of surf gate I will give that to Axis but you can dial in the flow pretty good. (Shout out to Mike,mmandley that helped me over the phone with that). Bottom line I think the Moomba is better quality for the money but Axis makes a great boat. Also it comes down to your local dealer and trust level. Just my thoughts.

[Zeusmannc]

I just talked to my dealer he contacted to factory and the surf flow for the mojo will fit a 05 lsv. They also offer system for lsv 06 and up. Ok honld on now its 1600.00 installed.

[chadjitsu1]

Just sent you a PM about your coach



I looked at the Axis brand in 2013 during the boat show and there were a couple of things I didn't like. The first one was I didn't like the play pen area (my wife and I had a disagreement on this one). I also didn't like the bones (the look) of the boat. I ended up going a totally different path with a jet boat. Prior to the boat show I had rented and skied behind everything from a Chaparral to a Wakesetter VLX but never had even ridden in a jetboat.. Temporary insanity I guess. At the end of 2013 I knew I needed to do something because the jet boat just wasn't what we were looking for. So I jumped back in and started researching again, limiting my lengths to 20’ and under due to storage. SC came out with the Mondo so I read a lot, especially on this board. Pricing for the A20 was similar to the Mondo, the axis being more expensive. I visited the Malibu dealer first and I honestly didn't get treated that great in my opinion. I did spend some time looking at the Axis again but still just didn't like the look of it. Bad trade in pricing was the final straw and I ended up walking out of the dealership. Went to Atlanta Marine and the rest is history. Very happy with my decision. I recently added the 650 ibs and 900 sumo’s to the rear and the wake doubled in size. It is just incredible. One of the teenagers on the boat rode with everything full and he said it compared to his neighbors wake behind his 2014 Mailbu 247 lsv when he rode behind it. He said the wake was a little bigger on the Malibu but that they also had 12 people on top of the ballasts being full.

I recently took a wakeboarding lesson from Corey Bradley and spent 3 hours behind and on his 22MXZ. It is a sweet ride but anything with that price tag, ie. Porsche, is a sweet ride. He gets sponsored by Malibu (he rode for Mastercraft for like 6-7 years) so I think they give him a new one every year. He puts like 4000 lbs of ballast in it when he rides at a 75’ rope length. Crazy…

By the way he is great instructor for anyone in the NEGA area. I hope to go back again. He worked my tail off. He’s also on an apple app that is a free download that has some good video instructions. TSO Wake.

[bkearney]

I just talked to my dealer he contacted to factory and the surf flow for the mojo will fit a 05 lsv. They also offer system for lsv 06 and up. Ok honld on now its 1600.00 installed.

Is the hull on an 05 LSV the same as an 03?