Supra Surf Enhancement? [Archive]

E4NASH

11-18-2013, 12:00 PM

looks like a new surf system. hope it isn't like surfgate and more like nss or the vx. still no replacement for displacement :)

From what I heard a few months ago a lot depended on what happened with the lawsuit between Nautique and Malibu so I would assume that it is something similar...however birdies have been wrong in the past.

I totally agree that there is no replacement for displacement and who knows how well these gimmicky "systems" will hold up after several seasons of use. That has to be an awfully lot of stress put on that area of the boat. You just can't duplicate 3 years of repeated use during a few months of R&D. Just my $.02 I will remain skeptical...

sandm

11-18-2013, 02:57 PM

having seen both but never surfed either, the surfgate system does nothing for me at all. being able to switch side to side on a wake that most I have seen describe as somewhat weak with no push is not appealing. the nss system uses ballast but also some engineering to get more out of the boat. I hope it's more along these lines.

either way, I hope it makes supra a bigger player in the wakesurf game. really doesn't feel like they have been in that arena yet from a marketing standpoint and there's a big pool of $$ out there they should be tapping into..

Mobius22

11-18-2013, 03:15 PM

Can't wait! I've heard REALLY good things!!

jmvotto

11-18-2013, 03:46 PM

maybe a 242 is in the cards!!!

E4NASH

11-18-2013, 05:15 PM

having seen both but never surfed either, the surfgate system does nothing for me at all. Being able to switch side to side on a wake that most i have seen describe as somewhat weak with no push is not appealing. The nss system uses ballast but also some engineering to get more out of the boat. I hope it's more along these lines.

Either way, i hope it makes supra a bigger player in the wakesurf game. Really doesn't feel like they have been in that arena yet from a marketing standpoint and there's a big pool of $$ out there they should be tapping into..

^^^^this..

KG's Supra24

11-19-2013, 01:46 PM

http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=32966&stc=1&d=1384880243

bergermaister

11-19-2013, 01:52 PM

please be retrofit, please be retrofit....

mikenehrkorn

11-19-2013, 01:55 PM

http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=32966&stc=1&d=1384880243

Wow -- any bigger and you might be able to surf that pipe!! :)

sandm

11-19-2013, 02:40 PM

please be retrofit, please be retrofit....

anything is retrofit. just a matter of how much $$ you have :)

mmandley

11-19-2013, 02:44 PM

anything is retrofit. just a matter of how much $$ you have :)

I can't speak too much on this new devise as I promised back in July when I was demoing the SC not to share details.
1 its only for Supra
2 Its only for 14 and up models as a factory option
3 It's only retrofit back to the 13 model
4 It designed to be controlled with the Supra Vision system

I really hope that's not the wave it creates, that is super washy and ruff on top. i do like the length but all that's relavent on camera.

wolfeman131

11-19-2013, 04:07 PM

I can't speak too much on this new devise as I promised back in July when I was demoing the SC not to share details.
1 its only for Supra
2 Its only for 14 and up models as a factory option
3 It's only retrofit back to the 13 model
4 It designed to be controlled with the Supra Vision system

I really hope that's not the wave it creates, that is super washy and ruff on top. i do like the length but all that's relavent on camera.

The official release is in 2 days and the correct info will be in that release.

Remember what Abe Lincoln said, "Don't believe everything you read on the internet."

sandm

11-19-2013, 04:29 PM

mmandley

11-19-2013, 04:35 PM

The official release is in 2 days and the correct info will be in that release.

Remember what Abe Lincoln said, "Don't believe everything you read on the internet."

Maybe its changed now but that was not what I read, it was from a Designers mouth.

KG's Supra24

11-19-2013, 06:02 PM

that made me lol ....

agreed on the official release in two days ...

moombadaze

11-20-2013, 08:39 AM

I don't think it's a bad wave at all. lots of roll. I'll be interested to see some other shots with riders on it for some better perspective. wonder if it's "factory" weighted or if we'll see some shots of "real world" weighting. that always makes a difference :)

I'm stoked to see supra pushing surfing...

what if that shot is the factory weight, pretty good looking to me, real world weight should ad even more tsunami to it,

wonder when the trickle down to Moomba will happen, hopefully soon and its retro to a 13 LSV:cool:

jsly04XLV

11-20-2013, 11:25 AM

From Supra instagram
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/20/muse9evy.jpg

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

sandm

11-20-2013, 01:15 PM

what if that shot is the factory weight, pretty good looking to me,

I agree with this :)

mmandley

11-20-2013, 01:49 PM

That would be awesome if its Factory weight and thats the result of the wave.

When we surfed the SA we ran max from the factory and while it was surfable it was still a short wave like you find on the Launch 21. Shorter and Tall, very simular to the LSV with 750 rear and only 400 ski locker.

The SC had hard tank plus 1100 so apx 1350 in the rear and 1000ish up front and that wave was by fare the best factory style wave on an SC boat i have surfed. That wave had more length to it and a lot of push but it still wanted a 1500 in the rear but i didnt want to deal with pulling the Enzo out of the Mojo.

I have heard rumors Moomba will get a surf system but no time line as of yet. Maybe tomorrow's announcement will say something.

I was corrected when talking to my source, and only 14 boats will have the new system and its not retrofit now. Like i said in my earlier post, that was the info from July and a lot can and has changed since then.

Looking forward to the announcement, also looking forward to Evening with the Stars at AWS Friday night. They have a SC on the floor but it doesn't have the surf system.

mmandley

11-20-2013, 02:19 PM

Just got word they are bring the SC we demoed in July up from Cali for Evening with the Stars, and it will have the Surf system installed. Going to be sweet getting some in person first looks at it and how it works.

jester

11-20-2013, 02:47 PM

I know that boat. Cannot wait to see the system on it. Now think they will mind if we take it out for a few runs before evening with the Stars?

Boonejeepin

11-20-2013, 08:26 PM

And to think that I get into PDX about an hour after EWS.

mmandley

11-20-2013, 08:59 PM

And to think that I get into PDX about an hour after EWS.

Yea but you said you were tooo busy to come hang out with your PDX boat buddies.

Boonejeepin

11-21-2013, 01:11 AM

Yea but you said you were tooo busy to come hang out with your PDX boat buddies.

Trust me. I really wish I could get there in time. I land around 10:30pm. You will probably be on the way home by then.

KG's Supra24

11-21-2013, 10:49 AM

Looks like the reveal is at 12:00 central time.

KG's Supra24

11-21-2013, 11:24 AM

Well that got blown early .....

http://www.supraboats.com/swell/

http://www.supraboats.com/swell/SwellStudioBladesPortBarrel.jpg

http://www.supraboats.com/swell/Photo-Nov-13,-12-52-00-PM.jpg

jstenger

11-21-2013, 11:33 AM

Isn't this surf system similar to the Mastercraft surf tabs?

KG's Supra24

11-21-2013, 11:51 AM

Seems there are similarities .... Does MC have 2 different styles of surf waves?

Also, do the MC system give the ability to quickly switch sides?

bergermaister

11-21-2013, 12:32 PM

2012 MC X55 tabs-

http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k414/grberglund/pdxboatshow12/P1080716.jpg

http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k414/grberglund/pdxboatshow12/P1080717.jpg

http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k414/grberglund/pdxboatshow12/P1080718.jpg

Don't recall what the controls looked like.

Something about the Supra tab on the bottom edge, aside from the profiled cut, looks different to me?

jester

11-21-2013, 12:38 PM

From the video it looks like you only have two settings for surfing, swell-up and barrel waves. I wonder what this does when you add ballest if you are able to control the surf system to really get the right wave for each rider.

Also it looks like it is only for the 2014 SA and SC's. Guess they want us all to buy a new boat this year.

mmandley

11-21-2013, 12:42 PM

System looks legit, but I can't wait till spring so i can surf it and see it its as Legit as it looks.

I have seen lots of good looking waves that have no power in it to surf.

Since i have surfed the SC and it does have power, this looks to add the length it was lacking before.

Berg, this system looks to move much farther down and actually be lower then the boat hull. Not like the normal wake plates that only move an inch or two.

sandm

11-21-2013, 12:52 PM

don't remember the boat, but this 3-tab system was on either supreme or sanger 3 or 4 years ago. I don't remember if it was offered as an option, but there was a test mule that had pics on the internet installed and tested.
similar to the mc option as well, but wonder how far into the water each setup cuts..

I'm with Mike in that I would want to see/surf one to see what it actually does to the wave.

patrick232

11-21-2013, 12:54 PM

Well that got blown early .....

http://www.supraboats.com/swell/

http://www.supraboats.com/swell/SwellStudioBladesPortBarrel.jpg

http://www.supraboats.com/swell/Photo-Nov-13,-12-52-00-PM.jpg

Looking at this you could retro fit to any boat using standard trim tab controls and adjust on your own. On Wakeworld.com someone did something like that, but had on the side of the boat.

bergermaister

11-21-2013, 01:33 PM

Wishing there were larger pictures posted to get a closer look.

KG's Supra24

11-21-2013, 02:52 PM

I believe the 14 hulls have been reinforced to support the pressure that is going to be on the plate

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

E4NASH

11-21-2013, 03:27 PM

Isn't this surf system similar to the Mastercraft surf tabs?

That is EXACTLY the first thing that I thought of when I saw it...pics are one thing riding it is another...

jstenger

11-21-2013, 03:35 PM

Wishing there were larger pictures posted to get a closer look.
Here is the link to the Flicker page with some close up pics.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/supraboats/with/10981993594/

KG's Supra24

11-21-2013, 03:53 PM

It definitely isn't mounted the same way as the MC, even though they are both tabs. The way the Supra is mounted, it should be able to get closer to a 90 degree angle. The barrel positions look like one side is set to 90.

I've heard great things about the short timing to switch from one side to the other also.

jstenger

11-21-2013, 04:37 PM

If you look closely, the tabs, or blades as they call them, have a curve to them. They are not flat like conventional tabs.

moombadaze

11-21-2013, 06:03 PM

And the trailing edge is not straight at all

jstenger

11-21-2013, 06:37 PM

With the 90° angle, it looks like a combination of Nautique's NSS and Mastercraft's surf tabs.

moombadaze

11-22-2013, 08:18 AM

mmandley

11-22-2013, 10:03 AM

people have been adding standard trim tabs to boats for years and years, why could these not be added to a older hull, but use the standard way to bolt them on like MC did. Pretty sure the ram mount on the tab could be modified to get them to deploy further to achieve the barrel position. I for one would love to have my boat stay level when surfing and still produce a great wave

I don't see why you couldn't. If you bought the tab system and then mounted it, all you would need is a switch system like the Wake Plate uses. The key is, can you buy them separate without a boat attached LOL.

bergermaister

11-22-2013, 10:26 AM

Ok ok, I'll be the guinea pig. Who do I send my shipping address?
:p

wolfeman131

11-22-2013, 12:05 PM

people have been adding standard trim tabs to boats for years and years, why could these not be added to a older hull, but use the standard way to bolt them on like MC did. Pretty sure the ram mount on the tab could be modified to get them to deploy further to achieve the barrel position. I for one would love to have my boat stay level when surfing and still produce a great wave

I don't think standard trim tabs deploy to 90 degrees. Stick your hand out of the car window when your driving home from work today and see the difference in resistance between having your fingers pointed to the front of the truck versus straight up. The bigger issue may be how/where you mount the ram to be able to drive the tab to that 90 degree position.

KG's Supra24

11-22-2013, 12:18 PM

.... and having the hull support so it doesn't rip out the back of the boat.

wolfeman131

11-22-2013, 12:48 PM

nobody finding any good pics?

http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd344/wolfeman131/Supra%20Swell/moneyshot.png (http://s530.photobucket.com/user/wolfeman131/media/Supra%20Swell/moneyshot.png.html)

http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd344/wolfeman131/Supra%20Swell/boost.png (http://s530.photobucket.com/user/wolfeman131/media/Supra%20Swell/boost.png.html)

http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd344/wolfeman131/Supra%20Swell/orange2.png (http://s530.photobucket.com/user/wolfeman131/media/Supra%20Swell/orange2.png.html)

http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd344/wolfeman131/Supra%20Swell/orange.png (http://s530.photobucket.com/user/wolfeman131/media/Supra%20Swell/orange.png.html)

wolfeman131

11-22-2013, 12:50 PM

http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd344/wolfeman131/Supra%20Swell/vision1.png (http://s530.photobucket.com/user/wolfeman131/media/Supra%20Swell/vision1.png.html)

http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd344/wolfeman131/Supra%20Swell/goofy.png (http://s530.photobucket.com/user/wolfeman131/media/Supra%20Swell/goofy.png.html)

http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd344/wolfeman131/Supra%20Swell/vision2.png (http://s530.photobucket.com/user/wolfeman131/media/Supra%20Swell/vision2.png.html)

http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd344/wolfeman131/Supra%20Swell/wave.png (http://s530.photobucket.com/user/wolfeman131/media/Supra%20Swell/wave.png.html)

wolfeman131

11-22-2013, 12:52 PM

http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd344/wolfeman131/Supra%20Swell/transom3.png (http://s530.photobucket.com/user/wolfeman131/media/Supra%20Swell/transom3.png.html)

http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd344/wolfeman131/Supra%20Swell/tansom2.png (http://s530.photobucket.com/user/wolfeman131/media/Supra%20Swell/tansom2.png.html)

http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd344/wolfeman131/Supra%20Swell/transom3.png (http://s530.photobucket.com/user/wolfeman131/media/Supra%20Swell/transom3.png.html)

http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd344/wolfeman131/Supra%20Swell/tab1.png (http://s530.photobucket.com/user/wolfeman131/media/Supra%20Swell/tab1.png.html)

wolfeman131

11-22-2013, 12:53 PM

http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd344/wolfeman131/Supra%20Swell/ram2.png (http://s530.photobucket.com/user/wolfeman131/media/Supra%20Swell/ram2.png.html)

http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd344/wolfeman131/Supra%20Swell/ram1.png (http://s530.photobucket.com/user/wolfeman131/media/Supra%20Swell/ram1.png.html)

http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd344/wolfeman131/Supra%20Swell/tab3.png (http://s530.photobucket.com/user/wolfeman131/media/Supra%20Swell/tab3.png.html)

http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd344/wolfeman131/Supra%20Swell/tab5.png (http://s530.photobucket.com/user/wolfeman131/media/Supra%20Swell/tab5.png.html)

jmvotto

11-22-2013, 08:15 PM

Drew, those pics look great, saw some on WW and fb.

Where the live pics from AWS evening with the stars or is that tonight?
BTW when did Bob Soven take over Phil Soven for rage alliance wake awards... Plus what happens to the wake brothers show, that was pretty entertaining.

Mobius22

11-22-2013, 09:21 PM

Wake brothers was cancelled after the first season I believe

moombadaze

11-22-2013, 09:47 PM

.... and having the hull support so it doesn't rip out the back of the boat.
don't want that at all. does the SA fit a "standard height" garage door opening, just wishfull thinking on my part. I got 4 more years to I can even bring it up with the wife. sure is hard to pwi-good thing for spellcheck

MJR63

11-23-2013, 09:12 AM

Maybe not identical but I'm in the process of retro fitting my 02 LSV W/ a similar upgrade to MC surf tabs. Got all the parts but got side tracked building my winter boat storage canopy. I plan to start installing it this winter. See link below:

https://forum.moomba.com/showthread.php?23122-Surf-Tabs-)

jmvotto

11-23-2013, 10:03 AM

How would a boat drive with the swell

ie the drag on the boat vs overweighted saced out driving

wolfeman131

11-23-2013, 10:22 AM

While I haven't driven it, the boat stays level. It's an even weight system. What I don't know is if the Vision system resets the tabs to even when you come off plane to idle & when getting on plane like the Wakeplate does on Supra.

Hope to find that info out soon . . . . myself.

http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd344/wolfeman131/Supra%20Swell/plowing.png

http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd344/wolfeman131/Supra%20Swell/moneyshot.png

mmandley

11-23-2013, 01:09 PM

Where the live pics from AWS evening with the stars or is that tonight?
.

Saw the Swell in person last night. Looks pretty much exactly like the pictures posted.

The only real different thing in person you don't see in pictures is how beefy this system really is. Its all thick plating and just very strong looking. After looking at it, I keep thinking why doesn't the wakeplate have a stronger beefier mounting system.

AWS said the option price is apx 3K on the Swell, I personally was very surprised at this price since other boat companies want quite a bit more for their systems.

Shane was pretty busy so i didn't get the full run down on the Swell system, and how it works but I plan to talk to him on the phone later this weekend to ask the questions. Its hard to talk to him about that when hes got people to show the entire SC too LOL.

Not to take away from Malibu Surfgate, several of the boats on display with surfgate had loose tabs. Not sure if this is fixable. Also it seems like surfgate has 2 different models of the gate. The Axis line had cheaper smaller gate tabs. Where the LSV and MX line had larger beefy tabs and those where loose at all.

I got to check out the new G21 first hand, man thats a sweet boat but inside feels small to me
Also the new Axis A24 was on the floor. Big boat, looks really nice but I have never spent any time in an Axis other then on a Trailer LOL.

Boonejeepin

11-23-2013, 03:02 PM

I passed the Swell equipped SC this morning around 9:00am around Eugene, OR on the I5. I was rolling 70mph in the opposite direction. I am sure Shane was on his way home

So wish I could have seen it in person (close up).

moombadaze

11-24-2013, 12:35 PM

Mike, where are your photos??????

mmandley

11-25-2013, 12:10 AM

Mike, where are your photos??????

I'll see what Claudia took. Honestly I didn't take any because our D5100 was damaged in Az at the wedding, then fixed. But Iwas having trouble with our. So Claudia took it before I got Pissed lol.

jmvotto

11-25-2013, 09:55 AM

Young man from our lake that went to worlds in the fall of 2013. I posted earlier teamed up with P5 and supra to shoot this video.

Nice skilz, Miller Kinlin will be at the top of the podium soon enough....

think this was posted on ww as well.

http://vimeo.com/80065490

Mobius22

11-25-2013, 10:35 AM

Awesome vid! Wave looks sweet

wolfeman131

11-25-2013, 11:40 AM

Awesome vid! Wave looks sweet

I'm more impressed with Miller's comments about the push.

jester

11-25-2013, 04:45 PM

I was also able to look at the system at AWS's EWS's. It looks like a great system. I jumped in the boat and played with the Vision system a little. It allows you to adjust how far down each swell plate is for the two different types of wakes but does not allow you to customize per rider. It is also not able (or I did not see it) to turn on the swell system under your rider presets. This means you will have to select your rider to get the ballast filled then turn on the swell system. Not a big deal but would be nice if you could just have a single spot to press so you did not forget to turn on the system and have to instruct the driver with hand signs on i need the surf to swell.

Like Mike said the plate is much thicker then what the photos show. It also has a few curves in the plate it direct the water flow.

Only thing that I wonder about is if the swell plates go past 90* forward. It looks like you would hit the swell plats on the trailer bunks when you go to load if you did not turn the swell system off . That brings up another question of if the "return to dock" button on the Vision system will return the swell system to off or if that is also still independent.

KG's Supra24

11-25-2013, 05:38 PM

Only thing that I wonder about is if the swell plates go past 90* forward. It looks like you would hit the swell plats on the trailer bunks when you go to load if you did not turn the swell system off .

I read somewhere the swell system disengages under 7(?) mph

jmvotto

11-25-2013, 06:44 PM

I read somewhere the swell system disengages under 7(?) mph
yes its does from what I have read as well .
tyler aka Diggs has a some nice info over on WW from the AWS even with the stars, he ordered a new sc with the swell and reiterated shanes stillmans comments on how it works.

jester

11-25-2013, 07:50 PM

That is good to know. I was not able to really sit down with Shane since he was busy.

trayson

11-26-2013, 02:48 PM

I got to see it as well in person. I only snapped a couple of quick pics after I finished my pizza. But didn't get any insight into it other than being able to look at it.

The beefiness of the supports, the thickness of the metal, the range of deflection and the trapazoid shape of the tabs themselves all caught my attention.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-6x53AYPuk-s/UpJwBQt1pxI/AAAAAAAAPgw/EKbMIHMT3Ws/s800/20131122_205837.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-RWmRKjrGdfA/UpJwCuxb1UI/AAAAAAAAPg0/PC4oLD_my4k/s800/20131122_205827.jpg

GeistSC

11-27-2013, 05:12 PM

Great video! I just bought a 2014 SC450 and hope to have the Swell system added to it this winter. Do you have any idea what type of ballast they were running in the video? Only got to surf twice before the cold weather did me in so I'm looking forward to dialing it in next spring.

Thanks!