View Full Version : Torsion axle failure...it finally happened
I guess I shouldn't say it FINALLY happened, as I just bought the boat in June. I pulled it home from Illinois, and then probably haven't even put 20 miles on it since (boat stays in the water). The failure happened while the boat was parked...I found that pretty strange as you would think a bump would cause a jolt to the axle and that would be how it would fail, not just sitting stationary. I was going to pull the boat to my father in law's pole barn for the winter, but when I hooked up and tried to pull away the wheels were completely locked up against the fenders.
Anyway, I understand my boat trailer is 7 years old, but this is obviously a very common issue and Boatmate did a pretty terrible job designing these trailers to use those axles (and Moomba did a terrible job selling a boat this heavy with a single axle trailer). I cringed every time I hit a bump on my way home from buying the boat.
I'll call Boatmate tomorrow, but I'm not really expecting anything from them from what I've read on this forum and others since mine's out of warranty. I assume they don't even make the axle, as I've seen "UFP" mentioned multiple times.
I wanted to ask you guys though, has anybody ever heard of the axle "flipping"? Some guy on another forum said if you back the boat up and the wheels are locked, it could "flip" the axle and all you had to do was take the trailing arm off and rotate it on the splines back to nominal position. From my very limited knowledge on torsion axles, I assume he means just rotating 90 degrees internally. Ok, so maybe this MIGHT work with a rubber torsion axle, but I don't think it could apply with a metal spring. Are these axles rubber or spring? Even if this was true, it rotated in there already once so I'm pretty sure it would do it again since there's already a failure point.
The only reason I think this might be a possibility is because, now I don't know why, but my tongue was fully compressed when I hooked the boat up today to pull it out. Maybe when I backed it in after winterizing it last weekend it might have happened. My lot I put it on is pretty muddy, maybe I backed it in and didn't realize the axle "flipped", but it would've had to happen exactly at the same time as I was done backing it up to my wheel chock, because it backed smoothly up to that point from what I remember. Seems improbable.
Also, do you guys think I could remove my fenders and get any miles out of it at all? I'd be afraid to even pull it up to the local trailer repair shop. The worst part of all of this is it's stuck on my muddy lake lot where I don't even have power to run a compressor or anything, and the mud makes it pretty difficult to jack it up and place jack stands (I tried, need more boards).
Boat mate has the axle. Got mine from them. Took my fenders off to get it home (6 miles). Don't think it would have made it any further than that. It was already pulling on the brake line. Boaf Mate won't warrant it. Think I paid $450.00 with brake lines and painted.
Boat mate has the axle. Got mine from them. Took my fenders off to get it home (6 miles). Don't think it would have made it any further than that. It was already pulling on the brake line. Boaf Mate won't warrant it. Think I paid $450.00 with brake lines and painted.
Did you do it yourself?
Did you do it yourself?
Yes. Talk to Jerry in parts at Boat Mate. He assures it will never happen again with the new axle. He will send you the "how to" also. There is a lot of information on here as well on how to do it
So he says. It shouldn't have happened in the first place to any of us, so it's hard to believe him this time lol.
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jpetty3023
11-04-2013, 10:27 AM
So he says. It shouldn't have happened in the first place to any of us, so it's hard to believe him this time lol.
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calling boatmate first and killing them
with kindness might yield better results. not sure if the company, or Jerry, monitors this site but we have seen it time and time again where someone bashes a company first only to send out an apology after speaking with them. good luck with your issue and I hope for favorable results
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calling boatmate first and killing them
with kindness might yield better results. not sure if the company, or Jerry, monitors this site but we have seen it time and time again where someone bashes a company first only to send out an apology after speaking with them. good luck with your issue and I hope for favorable results
Sent from my iP5s on an app called Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1) 2
I think my statements have been far from bashing them and weren't even negative towards the company. Companies are made up of people, and people make mistakes. They designed trailers improperly for a period of years that have this common failure, or they sourced an axle manufacturer that designed the axle they spec'd for improperly (not sure what the root cause is). I'm sure Boatmate Jerry would own up to that since it is a very common issue. I'd just question how he could guarantee that this one wouldn't fail. An engineered piece of equipment can't be perfect all the time, I understand that very well, but I still it would be hard to believe it will never happen again unless they (or UFP) put their money where their mouth is and throw out a lifetime guarantee on the new axle (and tell me specifically what they did to fix the issue on the new one).
Not only that, I'd never call up a company with a negative, condescending, or "blaming" attitude about something like this, that's just the wrong way to handle things and won't produce results. I'm in sales of engineered products, and I know how to handle myself professionally. Only people that can't control themselves emotionally during a non-emotional situation react like that (my wife in point...shhhh)!
I have issues like this at my company also; when something like this happens it's not like my company is the worst company in the world and all of our products suck, we just own up to it, fix it, and learn from the mistake. I never had a problem with my Boatmate for my old Supra, it was a great trailer. I have nothing against Boatmate, UFP, or anybody that works at either company. I completely understand that it's out of warranty; I'm not entitled to anything and they also can't be held liable, but really great companies will stand behind their mistakes and own up to it (as maybe they have). If this issue happened once or twice, that's a different story. If it's a commonly known problem, it's something they should (and maybe have) addressed properly. Hopefully Boatmate and UFP are like that; sounds like many of you view Boatmate Jerry in a positive manner, so I'm actually assuming they are.
KG's Supra24
11-04-2013, 11:47 AM
Jerry was very helpful when I had the issue. Here are some comments that address some of the thoughts above. Although, these were shared in an email, I think it would be alright to share here ....
"The reason that I cannot cover it under warranty is because the trailer is over 6 years old and the axle is only covered for 5 years. The original axle warranty was only 2 years, but after seeing a few failures, we persuaded them to extend that to 3 years. After seeing more failures, we pushed them to extend it to 5 years to stay in line with Boatmate’s 5 year warranty, but that’s as far as we can go and we have to draw a line somewhere. And since Boatmate eats a certain amount of labor in each one of those claims (even the ones that are “covered” by UFP), it’s not financially feasible for us to cover them beyond 5 years."
" As big as the problem may sound from what you read on the internet, the last figures that we had calculated show that the failure rate is less than 0.5% (less than one half of one percent). Since there is no safety threat, all of the lawyers involved decided that a recall was not justified. The worst we have see is these situations is that the tire will fail and possibly tear up a fender……..and the average tire failure rate is higher than the axle failure rate. "
Contact Jerry and I'm sure he will help you out asap, as he has done many others here. If you want a way to confirm the axle failure, PM your email address. I can send you the PDF he sent me, "Torsion Beam Jack Test". It may be available online? But I don't mind sending it.
Thanks for the info KG. I agree with Jerry's comment about it probably not being financially feasible for them to cover it after warranty if there are so many, and I commend them for working hard to have the axle manufacturer extended theirs to match the 5 years. But I wonder what that 0.5% is based on; if it truly is that low, it seems like it probably would be financially feasible for them to warranty (or partially warranty) that specific issue on certain year trailers beyond the 5 year point. I don't blame him for having to draw a line though, it's business and they have to make money or else they can't continue to be in business.
I don't agree with him that there is "no safety threat". I would agree that the safety threat is minimal, but not non-existant. I do agree that the safety threat is similar to a blown tire and probably not enough of a threat to require a recall; whether or not it would be the "right" thing to do in the consumer's opinion, again it's business.
Ian Brantford
11-04-2013, 12:55 PM
I wish that I had known what was happening back when I started getting early symptoms back in 2009...
https://forum.moomba.com/showthread.php?9187-Trailer-hitch-latch-adjustment
I only tow a couple of times a year, so progression of the problem was very slow. Now the shimmy worse and one side is down about 2cm. The local trailer repair shop confirmed that one axle needs replacement. Jerry sent me the links for replacement parts. No warranty coverage is available after so long.
Maybe we can do a group buy in the spring?
I wish that I had known what was happening back when I started getting early symptoms back in 2009...
https://forum.moomba.com/showthread.php?9187-Trailer-hitch-latch-adjustment
I only tow a couple of times a year, so progression of the problem was very slow. Now the shimmy worse and one side is down about 2cm. The local trailer repair shop confirmed that one axle needs replacement. Jerry sent me the links for replacement parts. No warranty coverage is available after so long.
Maybe we can do a group buy in the spring?
I haven't towed barely at all this year other than bringing it home from Illinois, after that maybe 20 miles. I don't know how much it was towed by the original owner though. However, I had no warning signs at all, at least no obvious ones. Last weekend I towed it to the gas station and back no problem, this weekend the tires were jammed up into the fenders before I even moved it.
My neighbor has his empty for sale Supra Boatmate dual axle trailer sitting literally 15 feet from my boat on a broken trailer...maybe it's time to upgrade to a dual, even though I only tow a couple times a year for very short rides!
Time is a killer on just about anything mechanical that just sits.
I had driven 500 miles from where I purchased the boat. Took it to the water, home and 400 yards shy of the marina. That was an additional 60 miles. The seals leaked smoke everywhere and another problem also.
The mechanic asked if the trailer had been sitting. I know for the 5 years owned before me he drove it about 15 miles per year.
I have a double PWC trailer which had a snapped axle. I was lucky and had to strap a gas can down in the tray and strapped it to the axle. Otherwise it would have hit the ground. Fixed it with angle iron, strap, 4x4 and hose clamps and drove it back 500 miles (same place I got my boat). It had rusted from the inside out.
This was light weight and could get away with it. Holiday weekend and no one had it, had to get back home.
True we don't do much with them but time is a killer.
How long should those Boat Mate axles last?
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb280/sirzappa/axle-break-fix-1.jpg
How long should those Boat Mate axles last?
Time can definitely be a killer for many things that don't get used, I agree. However, IMO a boat trailer axle shouldn't fail in 6 or 7 years, regardless of how little it gets used. Maybe if it was driven a million miles on washboard and bumpy roads or something, or consistently put in salt water every day.
Nice fix with the 4x4, good redneck enginurin' thur!
KG's Supra24
11-04-2013, 09:05 PM
Mine was a 2006 that went in 2012. Dusty had a 2006 that went in 2011 or 2012?
Id probably bet that his 1% figure is inaccurate. However, they handled my problem efficiently so no real compliants.
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james yarosz
11-04-2013, 10:07 PM
What year trailers did these axle,s start failing? I have a 2003 outback LS on a single axle trailer.Never had any problems so far.
REDFIVE48
11-05-2013, 02:48 PM
What year trailers did these axle,s start failing? I have a 2003 outback LS on a single axle trailer.Never had any problems so far.
Mine was a 2006 that failed in 2009, luckily still under warranty (even though I had to pay the labor I think). No problems since, thankfully.
I heard years were like 05-08 if I remember right.
Anyways, I've talked with UFP (axle manufacturer). They have completely owned up to this problem. I filled out the warranty form and a shiny new axle is on it's way for just the cost of shipping, and they even had a painted one (black though, not orange) laying around they are giving me instead of raw.
Dennis at UFP was great to work with. He described what happened and why it's such a low figure. They had 2 sub-suppliers that were assembling the internals (BTW these are rubber suspension, not a metal torsion spring). One supplier that did the majority was high-tech and used a robot booth to spray the adhesive and even had an x-ray inspection to make sure it had full coverage. The other supplier basically had a hand-spray booth...the issues came from that supplier.
So in the end, it's actually a tier 3 supplier issue and both Boat Mate and UFP took responsibility. Dennis did say that the design changed and my new axle will be the new design, so apparently there was an issue in the design but the actual root cause was the one supplier and their adhesive process. He said the new design is what Jerry would have referred to as guaranteed not to break again.
Thanks to Janet at Boat Mate and Dennis at UFP for quickly resolving the issue, and thanks to both companies for taking responsibility...chances are I'll have my new axle here by the weekend to install it. Great customer service from both.
Great job getting that taken care of. Great to see a company stand behind their products also.
Great job getting that taken care of. Great to see a company stand behind their products also.
Absolutely, it was impressive how well they just acknowledged the issue and set up a replacement immediately. They didn't require pictures or anything like that as normally is required for warranty stuff like this, from what I described they just knew what needed to be done and did it. That's pretty fantastic customer service.
moombadaze
11-05-2013, 06:12 PM
now the question for those that have the torsion axle from 05-08? is how to find out before the failure which supplier the axle came from, its winter time and if mine was at risk i would swap them out now vrs risking it.
jyj1189
11-05-2013, 08:05 PM
Glad to hear you got it all fixed. I had the same issue. Droveto Georgia to get the boat and back with no issues. Half a dozen trips, 1.5 miles, and the axle goes on the way home. Jerry was great, but I had to pay for it all. With tow fees, a marina slip for a few weeks, and all the parts I needed to get it fixed, I spent over $1000! Hopefully I got one of those new axles that won't break again.
That's what Jerry claims. No problems so far. Been 2 years. I did the axle exchange with the boat on the trailer.
now the question for those that have the torsion axle from 05-08? is how to find out before the failure which supplier the axle came from, its winter time and if mine was at risk i would swap them out now vrs risking it.
My suggestion is get the axle serial number from the bottom of the axle (starts with "A") and call up Dennis at UFP 931-967-5101 x16, maybe he can help with that info. The axle is only around $300 to purchase I believe, so it may not be a bad idea to do it as a precautionary measure. Plus, even if you have one from the "good" supplier, they still have changed the design and the new axle you would be buying is supposedly a better design.
yearround
11-08-2013, 10:56 PM
I have an '08 LSV with a dual axle. mid summer one axle failed. at first they said 5 years and was expired, but after talking to Jerry, he warranted both axles. I paid for shipping of both axles. I felt like I received great service from boatmate, I think most everyone has had good service from them.
Maybe it was UFP who warrantied them? I forget, I did talk to someone and they denied the warranty because out of time, so i ordered a new axle for purchase. but them someone else did warranty, and I canceled the other order.
For the axles, we cleaned and then just rattle can spray painted them. I figure my boat is on the trailer in the garage or I am in the boat on the the water. I am fine with different colored axles that really never get seen.
We replaced the failed axle with the boat on the trailer. We did it one evening in a few hours, except for breaking a brake line fitting. We have not replaced the other axle yet, just because I am lazy. Maybe a winter project?
Got my axle today, all shiny and painted black. That makes my job a lot easier to not have to paint it. Now all I have to do is swap it out hopefully by Weds night so I can drop it off at my father-in-law's pole barn on our way up north to deer camp!
treverspence
11-16-2013, 03:02 PM
I got an 04 XLV on a Boatmate dual axle trailer and the tires ride awfully close to the fenders. In fact the last trip to the river I got on the bypass and when I went across the bridge the trailer bottomed out on the tire and skinned all the treas off it, thought maybe it was just a bad tire. So I'm assuming mine is getting ready to fail?
Ian Brantford
11-17-2013, 12:19 PM
I got an 04 XLV on a Boatmate dual axle trailer and the tires ride awfully close to the fenders. In fact the last trip to the river I got on the bypass and when I went across the bridge the trailer bottomed out on the tire and skinned all the treas off it, thought maybe it was just a bad tire. So I'm assuming mine is getting ready to fail?
Yes. The only place that you should be towing that trailer is directly to a repair shop.
moombadaze
11-17-2013, 08:20 PM
So I'm assuming mine is getting ready to fail? nope, sounds like already did.
BTW I got my bill for the shipping, $66. That was much less than expected. Now I just have to find the time to get this thing installed, the snow is almost here and I would like to get my boat inside for winter!
Got the axle on, was really no prob. Took about 3 hours of running back and forth gathering the correct tools and getting an air compressor set up down on my lake lot (no power), and then about an hour to actually swap out the axle and bleed the brakes once we had all the right tools lol.
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