Alternator took a dump last night

[N2OGTO]

Well, my new system has claimed its first alternator, figured it wouldnt take long and should have upgraded it from the get go, on our other boat i put a cs144 with a smaller serpentine pulley on it, with a little bracket crafting it fit. So, does anyone know if the cs144 alternator will go on this boat, (maybe swapping the v-belt pulley on to it??)? or whats a good upgraded alternator i can get in a hurry?

[N2OGTO]

79 views and not one response. Lol it's all good tho. My engineering instincts took over and now i have 150-160 amps on tap. Should the need ever arise, I can go bigger easily... But I don't see that happening. Ill post pics and junk later today!

[rdlangston13]

Glad you got it fixed and have plenty of power on tap. I want to hear those 9's screaming on the river in 2 weeks.

[N2OGTO]

Hell yeah, I can't wait!

[N2OGTO]

Ok, so here was my problem. My alternator just couldn't keep up with the demands of the three exile amps. So, I picked up a cs144 alternator, it came with a serpentine pulley, I just took it off and put a smaller diameter v belt pulley on that I picked up locally. Tried to mount it, no dice. The bracket was too small to fit around the alternator. 17962
So I took it and added some here, took some away there, 17963
Then threw some paint on it 17964
And bam, it fits 17965
Loosely assembled both brackets before squeezing it off in its new home 17966

[N2OGTO]

Got the alternator bolted up and ran a piece of 4 gauge wire from the alternator charging stud to the starter stud.
17967
17968
Then I wired up the pigtail for the new alternator I picked up at oriellys and put on a new gates belt. Then gave her a startup and she's charging like a champ. The difference in these alternators size is almost comical. 17969

[ian ashton]

What type/how many batteries do you run?

I have an Xi1500.1, 800.4, and Harpoon and haven't had an issue (yet). Also put the same setup in a 2013 LSV without issue, and ran it in my '08 Outback (although the '08 had a Kicker 1000.1 instead of Exile)

Maybe I'm just lucky - so far I only run 2 batteries - start is the group 24 that came with the boat, house is a deep cycle group 27 from West Marine. I get more play time than I expected out of it, but want to switch to 2 AGM 27's over the winter.

I also use an ACR to separate.


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[N2OGTO]

A duracrap marine battery that came with the boat, then I put two Bluetop optimas in it. It was ok if you'd play it loud for a little while, turn it down, let the voltage come Back up and stabilize then turn it back up. But the 70 amps max that the old generator was putting out, it just wasn't enough. We're gonna go play on it some tonight and see how it does. Then all day tomorrow.

[mmandley]

IDK, i think the bigger issue is your batteries might not be good enough, or your party coveing too long and then taxing the alternator.

I run one of the bigger Exile system on the forum. I run 2 golf cart batteries plus a group 27 for starting.

When your boat is running and not running your batteries should be taking the abuse of your stereo, not the alternator. The stereo beats the hell out of batteries with its current demands and the Alternator is recharging the battery only.

If you are sitting in the party cove jamming out for hours on end and then you start your boat, and continue to jam out for hours on end, then yes you will tax the alternator, and frankly i dont care how big it is, you will burn up alternators.

This is why you run a BIG battery bank on your stereo so your not taxing the alternator as much. Also you should be shore charging the batteries when ever your not in the water.

Sorry so many views and so little responses but with all the people on this forum and the stereo's they run, very few upgrade the alternators, they upgrade batteries.

[ian ashton]

Mike, what golf cart batteries do you run?


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[N2OGTO]

That's a good point mike, but I let the boat run bc it literally will play for hours. On Tuesday night when the alternator let go, the boat ran the entire time the stereo played probably about 6 hours and it pulled the batteries down and the 70 amps max that that thing could put out was not enough to keep them charged. before, the voltage while running and playing the boat would start out at about 14 Volts, then once played for a while. The voltage would start to come down And hang around 12 so I'd turn the stereo down and let the alternator charge them back up. Now that thing is a monster. It can hold a solid 13.5 volts on my digital voltage gauge and it never fell off last night.

[mmandley]

Mike, what golf cart batteries do you run?


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Read the Sig bro LOL.

Interstate 2400U, you can get them at Costco for about a hundo, cheaper then normal group 31s yet they last twice as long each.

http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu114/mmandley/Stereo/Mojo%20Stereo/GosmsPhoto1361844339396_zps6eb13f5f.jpg (http://s639.photobucket.com/user/mmandley/media/Stereo/Mojo%20Stereo/GosmsPhoto1361844339396_zps6eb13f5f.jpg.html)

[mmandley]

That's a good point mike, but I let the boat run bc it literally will play for hours. On Tuesday night when the alternator let go, the boat ran the entire time the stereo played probably about 6 hours and it pulled the batteries down and the 70 amps max that that thing could put out was not enough to keep them charged. before, the voltage while running and playing the boat would start out at about 14 Volts, then once played for a while. The voltage would start to come down And hang around 12 so I'd turn the stereo down and let the alternator charge them back up. Now that thing is a monster. It can hold a solid 13.5 volts on my digital voltage gauge and it never fell off last night.

Bro honestly letting the boat idle isnt going to help much, an alternator is really barley putting any power out at idle.
It needs to be at 2K RPM to reach max output.

SO if you try the same thing with your new alternator their is a good chance you will toast it in time as well.

NOt trying to rag bro honest. I like your upgrade, and its a value added one but if you tie up and crank that long, you need to look into golf cart battery upgrades.

Mike are rated at 20amp for 570 minutes each
70amps for 180 minutes each <if i recall>

I have ran mine all day with the tunes about 1/2 and never an issue but i do have to shore charge them because my boat cant get them to max that fast

[EarmarkMarine]

NEVER, EVER run your boat while at rest to get a charge when listening to the stereo.
Alcohol consumption amplifies the poisonous impact of carbon monoxide. Combined, it takes much less of both to kill someone. Add in stagnate air and you have an even greater risk. Several years ago two people died in Oklahoma from this exact practice. They passed out, fell off the swim platform when no one noticed and silently drowned.

You can have as many batteries as you want. Fully charged batteries represent no extra load to the alternator. However, and this is a big 'however', discharged batteries are a liability rather than an asset. A number of highly discharged batteries or an inordinately large battery capacity that is highly discharged combined with the stereo draw will have an alternator running as hot as an exhaust manifold. And btw, as Mike mentioned, an alternator at idle doesn't produce very much current. What can be worse is when exhausted batteries are used beyond their lifespan. This is extremely stressful for an alternator and will lead to an early alternator demise. If everyone only discharged their batteries no lower than 12.0 volts and batteries were replaced when needed and on time, alternator rebuilders would be put out of business.
If you have a large system that you play at rest for a protracted period then it is not practical to burn a tank of gas to fully recharge. You must have SMART AC shore charging to fully restore, not to mention fully condition.

David

[New Guy]

I went with GC batteries as well this year and I couldn't be happier I wish I would have done it years ago.

[ian ashton]

Read the Sig bro LOL.



LOL, I don't see sigs in TapaTalk - maybe I should turn that on...


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[muehlcj]

Bro honestly letting the boat idle isnt going to help much, an alternator is really barley putting any power out at idle.
It needs to be at 2K RPM to reach max output.

SO if you try the same thing with your new alternator their is a good chance you will toast it in time as well.

NOt trying to rag bro honest. I like your upgrade, and its a value added one but if you tie up and crank that long, you need to look into golf cart battery upgrades.

Mike are rated at 20amp for 570 minutes each
70amps for 180 minutes each <if i recall>

I have ran mine all day with the tunes about 1/2 and never an issue but i do have to shore charge them because my boat cant get them to max that fast

I’m not sure I completely understand. Here’s my thought process:

The alternator converts energy from mechanical to electrical. The mechanical energy is supplied from the engine, whose input is chemical energy in the form of gasoline. The electrical output power of the alternator must be less than the mechanical input power from the engine, which must be less than the chemical power from gasoline combustion.

The alternator's maximum output power requires maximum engine speed & max fuel consumption. Now fortunately, alternators are equipped w/ regulators which provide constant voltage operation, by selectively adjusting the field current, the magnetic field strength can be varied & consequently a regulated output can be achieved despite varying loading & engine speed.

If the engine is idling under light load, the regulator will adjust the field current for the needed load power w/ constant voltage, approx. 13.8V. If the load is then increased, the voltage out momentarily droops, so the field current is raised by the regulator. The voltage at the alternator output increases to the right value, & the new current value is obtained. But the power has increased as well. This increase in electrical power mandates a corresponding increase in mechanical power from the engine.

If the fuel consumption is constant, i.e. no increase in fuel, than the idle speed will drop. Since the fuel consumed at the original engine idle speed did not increase, & the alternator demands more mechanical power from the engine, the engine must lose some of its mechanical power. The rpm drops as a result but the power out remains the same. Not sure how more engine rpms will make a difference unless your alternator is causing your engine to stall.

I would have to imagine that your factory alternator is sized such that it’s max output is enough to keep up with all demand even at idle. Add more demand though and I would say no matter how many batteries you have if your alternator is undersized ie max output power can’t keep up with demand you are in trouble as no matter the rpm it’s going to be running all out to keep up?

I’m in the same “boat” as you guys hope I don’t need to replace the alternator?

[wolfeman131]

I see David has rubbed off on somebody. :)

[N2OGTO]

Well guys, I don't let it idle. It's at about 1000 rpm. Holds 13.5 volts solid and my buddies supra does the same all the time too. He actually runs the same alternator I do. We haven't ever had problems out of his. (Going on 4 summers now) our other boat I did has two summers under its belt with the same setup. I just did this to show guys if you want to run a bigger alternator its pretty easy. The supra was easier. Lol

[N2OGTO]

Damn I forget to take pictures. Grabbed these tho.

[EarmarkMarine]

We are getting way off base.
Actually most of MikeM's comments on this subject are very accurate.
You are not going to burn up an alternator at idle. It just does not put out enough current at idle to make much of a contribution. If the RPMs are very low the alternator can't produce enough to get over-worked regardless of what the regulation would be.
The real danger to the alternator is when simultanously a large stereo is being played hard plus the batteries are in a deeply discharged state and the alternator is seriously loaded down at RPM. The 20 or so amps of the additional boat operations when underway are another draw that is piled on.
If you gave the alternator a break by placing the stereo in the limp or off mode while the deeply cycled batteries are getting a recharge, you could avoid the excess stress. Although many boaters don't want to run with their big audio system shut down....ever.
Running the batteries (even deep cycle batteries) below 12.0 volts is particularly bad for the batteries AND for the alternator.
Alernator current ratings are for a short term duty cycle and at higher RPMs.
It is pointless, and actually counter-productive, to have more depleted battery capacity than your charging system can effectively service....whether by the alternator, shore charger, or combination based on your individual scheme and usage.
Another valid reason for running all Class D amplification.

David

[N2OGTO]

That's one thing I do like is the javelin. That little amp works its tail off And hasn't had any problems. Class d's are the way to go

[beat taco]

Got the alternator bolted up and ran a piece of 4 gauge wire from the alternator charging stud to the starter stud.

Then I wired up the pigtail for the new alternator I picked up at oriellys and put on a new gates belt.

Ok, so my 51 amp alternator died Monday. It looks like the cs144 is going in. On the pigtail is it just three wires that go to my existing three wires? And what vehicle did you use, my parts guy didnt know what pigtail to get. Thanks.

[EricU]

...Interstate 2400U, you can get them at Costco for about a hundo, cheaper then normal group 31s yet they last twice as long each.

Why the two 6V batteries in series? Does it give more storage capacity?

[beat taco]

Why the two 6V batteries in series? Does it give more storage capacity?

It's to give 12v, however it does not change the capacity.
If ran parallel it would double the amps but still be 6v.

Still hoping for some clarification on my question :)

[EricU]

It's to give 12v, however it does not change the capacity.
If ran parallel it would double the amps but still be 6v.

Still hoping for some clarification on my question :)

Jake, I understand the difference between running batteries in series vs. parallel an the effect on the battery system voltage. My question is why run two golf cart batteries (at 12V.) rather than a single 12V battery which is cheaper and easier to deal with.

Is it the alternator pigtail adapter that you need? Not sure of your question but this Painless P/N 30706 (http://www.painlessperformance.com/webcatalog/largeview.php?SearchField=30706) or Painless P/N 30707 (http://www.painlesswiring.com/webcatalog/largeview.php?SearchField=30707)is what we use on our cars

[beat taco]

Jake, I understand the difference between running batteries in series vs. parallel an the effect on the battery system voltage. My question is why run two golf cart batteries (at 12V.) rather than a single 12V battery which is cheaper and easier to deal with.

Is it the alternator pigtail adapter that you need? Not sure of your question but this Painless P/N 30706 (http://www.painlessperformance.com/webcatalog/largeview.php?SearchField=30706) or Painless P/N 30707 (http://www.painlesswiring.com/webcatalog/largeview.php?SearchField=30707)is what we use on our cars
Sorry, guess I missed your question.

I think he is running two 6v over two 12v. After dealing with 6v in my RV (new RV owner and had never had experience with it) I will run 6v on my next boat build for my house needs.

Rather than me dumbing it up, here is a link with some useful info.

http://www.marxrv.com/12volt/12volt.htm

[EricU]

Sorry, guess I missed your question.

I think he is running two 6v over two 12v. After dealing with 6v in my RV (new RV owner and had never had experience with it) I will run 6v on my next boat build for my house needs. As explained before, these are 6V batteries so our boats would need two (at least) for the stereo bank

Rather than me dumbing it up, here is a link with some useful info.

http://www.marxrv.com/12volt/12volt.htm

I have to admit, that is a pretty well written and informative article on batteries.

So it seems to come down to amp hours available and being able to fully discharge the batteries without limiting their service life.

Came across another article about 6V Golf Cart battery specs (http://www.buggiesgonewild.com/electric-ezgo/1290-golf-cart-battery-comparison.html), which is summed up below. I only copied the 25 amp draw which seems more useful than the higher amp draw specs;

Trojan:
T-105, 447 Min
T-125, 488 Min
T-145, 530 Min

Exide:
E3600, 390 Min
GC-5, 480 Min
GC2-H, 525 Min

NAPA:
NAPA 8144 (mfg. by Exide - equivalent to Exide 3600) 390 Min
NAPA 8146 (mfg. by Exide - equivalent to Exide GC-5) 480 Min

SORRY about taking this thread off topic!!

[beat taco]

I had to replace the 6v batteries in my dads RV this year (which I purchased after his passing). The battery guy asked if they were from '11 or '01 from looking at the year stamp, they were obviously the originals from '01. My dad never maintained them, they would go winters hooked up without a charger or any use, often 6 months, and lasted 12 years!

[jmb]

I was told that an alternator is designed to keep a charged battery charged. They are not designed to charge a dead battery.

[MLA]

I was told that an alternator is designed to keep a charged battery charged. They are not designed to charge a dead battery.

This is for the most part, correct. Alternators do make for a poor battery charger. if a house bank is deeply drawn down while at anchor, its best to rely on shore charging to replenish the battery. The engine would have to run at above idle speed for a number of hours with no loads, in order to recharge the battery.

[mmandley]

Why the two 6V batteries in series? Does it give more storage capacity?

Sorry been in Texas at a 3 fast party.

I choose to run 6v because they have Huge storage capacity. They lady much longer then any 12v in any similar size or cost frame.

Last year i ran 3 12v on my boat and i could kill them and i don't party cove much. This year with the 6v i have played over 6 hours at my comfortable volume and batteries still showed over 12v

[N2OGTO]

Ok, so my 51 amp alternator died Monday. It looks like the cs144 is going in. On the pigtail is it just three wires that go to my existing three wires? And what vehicle did you use, my parts guy didnt know what pigtail to get. Thanks.

Sorry, I just now got to seeing this... And no, I grounded the existing case ground to the cs144, then used the big red wire from the pigtail and hooked it to the alternator stud. Then the one right next to the heavy gauge red wire, smaller black or brown wire to the switched ignition wire that was already there. I got the pigtail from oriellys auto parts in the help section.