Centurion Ramfill

[viking]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=CF9_-q4TbF8

Anybody else see this? Looks like the manufacturers are still pushing new innovations to the sport and ballast setups of new boats. I look forward to seeing what other builders are coming out with in 2014. Is SC up to anything new? I hope so or they will be left in the dust.

[maxpower220]

Finally, someone is putting the blinker knob on the correct side of the steering wheel.

[wolfeman131]

Is SC up to anything new?

http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo151/68Tiger/patience_grasshopper-1.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/68Tiger/media/patience_grasshopper-1.jpg.html)

[mmandley]

I read the email but didnt see the video till now.

I really like the CATs that is a sweet way to dial in the wake board wave without out all the moving people. The Ram Fill is not anything new and the last one looks like a wake plate same as most boats have now unless im missing something with that.

[muehlcj]

Which side of the asymmetrical plate is the wave on?

[motosno963]

I read the email but didnt see the video till now.

I really like the CATs that is a sweet way to dial in the wake board wave without out all the moving people. The Ram Fill is not anything new and the last one looks like a wake plate same as most boats have now unless im missing something with that.

wasnt there a video on youtube of a guy cutting into the hull to do the sacless fill?..i remember seeing that..with all this cats,ramfill, and tim tabs i would hope theres like a save button for each set up so you dont have to keep doing it over and over every time a different rider wants to hit the water

[viking]

yea a guy by the name Mike Murphy. Centurion's system seams alot like his "instafill" video I saw awhile back. Quick google search shows his "purevert" and "purevert 2" ballast systems. Also he seems his claim to fame is the hydrofoil chair and kneeboard? Could be BS as far as I know? But I would guess most ballast fill and empty systems are going to be some version of these 3 systems before too long. Who doesn't want to fill/empty in just a few seconds?

[Boonejeepin]

Mike Murphy is a true water sports pioneer.

[BobP]

Doesn't the Centurion site/video mention this is something they did back in 1996 or 1997 and brought it back...or maybe I misinterpreted it. I didn't get the impression they were saying this was anything new, other than an updated system in a 2014 boat.

[sandm]

that's what I took away as well.
it's just a different take on purevert that mb/calabria use. it would seem that they are now using 2 gates, one to fill and one to empty. the moveable tracking fin and one-eared wakeplate are interesting.

[Stazi]

I got the impression that they have two eared trim tabs, like a regular boat so yiou can lean the boat....something I think you could replicate on any wakeboard boat. The CATS system and Ramfill are awesome....Makes me want to seriously look at a Centurion if I ever upgrade.

[wolfeman131]

just be ready for some serious sticker shock going from an 04 LS to a 14 Enzo

[sandm]

and study the fit/finish closely. riding mike's mojo and a centurion 244 in the polar bear, hard to find the 30k difference in the 2.

[wolfeman131]

well, the dash may be fugly, but the electronics probably make up a decent chunk of that variance, then the WetSounds, the solid tower vs tube and most 244's come with at least the 409 motor

the overall fit & finish is comparable. maybe a bit more aluminum than plastic on the Centurion. but, there are many things that would drive me, and a mechanic, nuts.

[NateHaskovec]

17566

I would be more concerned about the boat in the video being on the bottom of the lake they shot the video on.

[beat taco]

17566

I would be more concerned about the boat in the video being on the bottom of the lake they shot the video on.

If you knew why that boat ended up that way you wouldn't, human error and nothing to do with ramfill, how did you get that picture?

[wolfeman131]

what the !@#$

is THAT the boat from the video?

how did it end up on the bottom of the lake?

[NateHaskovec]

I do know why it ended up there. Inspection covers for testing were left off of the tanks.

Whenever you allow that much water to be forced into a boat that fast, a failure in the system will comprimise your boat. The picture is easy to find. Google Centurian Ramfill. Click images.

I will stick with my opinion. When a boat testing "ramfill" ballast system designed to flood a boat with 1000# in "seconds" sinks during testing, it concerns me.

If one of my ballast pumps or hoses fail, I am battling a one inch hole.

If "ramfill" ruptures or fails, you are fighting two three inch holes which (when combined) are twenty times the size (area wise).

Sure, you can argue the system wil never fail, but in the case of the test boat, it took less than a minute to sink.

[beat taco]

I do know why it ended up there. Inspection covers for testing were left off of the tanks.

Whenever you allow that much water to be forced into a boat that fast, a failure in the system will comprimise your boat. The picture is easy to find. Google Centurian Ramfill. Click images.

I will stick with my opinion. When a boat testing "ramfill" ballast system designed to flood a boat with 1000# in "seconds" sinks during testing, it concerns me.

If one of my ballast pumps or hoses fail, I am battling a one inch hole.

If "ramfill" ruptures or fails, you are fighting two three inch holes which (when combined) are twenty times the size (area wise).

Sure, you can argue the system wil never fail, but in the case of the test boat, it took less than a minute to sink.

I too read all about it on wake world, just wondering why you would throw up a pic and be so vague about it. They cut 6" inspection holes so you could see it filling for documentation/promotion/etc. and someone left the covers off! Again, not a ramfill issue.

[NateHaskovec]

I too read all about it on wake world, just wondering why you would throw up a pic and be so vague about it. They cut 6" inspection holes so you could see it filling for documentation/promotion/etc. and someone left the covers off! Again, not a ramfill issue.

I diasgree. From a design standpoint it is a ramfill issue.

There is a reason why other boat manufacturers have not gone to rapid filling ballast systems. It's not for a lack of tech, it's about safety.

An engine driven water pump (mounted like your raw water pump) with a high capacity design could easily move 5000 lbs of water a minute, and only rob the motor of a few horses.

A 1/2 HP sump pump can move 800 lbs a minute.

The problem/liability is the 3'' holes, hoses, and fittings that would sink your boat almost instantly if they failed.

The human error that sunk the test boat was a clear test of what happens if the system fails.

[sandm]

so wait a minute... the boat failed and sank, but due to some additional holes that were not part of the original design and added after the fact and will not be in a production system? sounds like an issue with the pr/advertising department trying to get a better shot. how can ramfill be to blame if the holes were NOT part of the original setup and will not be present in production boats?

this setup looks to me like a variation on the gate system from mb, just with a different fill location. that setup has been working for years.

[NateHaskovec]

so wait a minute... the boat failed and sank, but due to some additional holes that were not part of the original design and added after the fact and will not be in a production system? sounds like an issue with the pr/advertising department trying to get a better shot. how can ramfill be to blame if the holes were NOT part of the original setup and will not be present in production boats?

this setup looks to me like a variation on the gate system from mb, just with a different fill location. that setup has been working for years.

It is very similar with one exception. The "pure vert" system gravity fills (floods in at a stand still). The ramfill uses a scoop to force the water in at speed.

The stresses on the system are very different. The MB floods. The ramfill shoves the water into tanks with a flowrate that is speed dependant.

Look up water hammer to see what damage can be done when fluid comes to an abrupt halt.

My engineering background may just make me conservative minded, but IMO forcing 1000# of water into the hull of a fiberglass boat through dual 3" ports while at speed seems like a disaster in the making.

Literally thousands of hours of testing should go into this before it becomes a consumer product.

[wolfeman131]

Literally thousands of hours of testing should go into this before it becomes a consumer product.

I guess you're assuming that "thousands of hours" haven't gone into testing? Already been said, but I'm assuming that this is an R&D boat. Anybody remember that Mercedes commercial where they showed car after car being slammed into a wall to show how they tested for safety? I'm glad Centurion put it at the bottom of the lake vs one of us!

I haven't worked for a boat manufacturer, but I would guess that they all sink boats when testing new ideas and concepts and in working to make sure that us idiots don't find an easy way to hurt or kill ourselves, our families or others.

I'm excited to see the innovation and think it's great that they went to such lengths and expense to make sure it's a safe product to have on the water.

[moombadaze]

17566

I would be more concerned about the boat in the video being on the bottom of the lake they shot the video on.think the bow is ugly

[NateHaskovec]

think the bow is ugly

Lol. That too.

[NateHaskovec]

I guess you're assuming that "thousands of hours" haven't gone into testing? Already been said, but I'm assuming that this is an R&D boat. Anybody remember that Mercedes commercial where they showed car after car being slammed into a wall to show how they tested for safety? I'm glad Centurion put it at the bottom of the lake vs one of us!

I haven't worked for a boat manufacturer, but I would guess that they all sink boats when testing new ideas and concepts and in working to make sure that us idiots don't find an easy way to hurt or kill ourselves, our families or others.

I'm excited to see the innovation and think it's great that they went to such lengths and expense to make sure it's a safe product to have on the water.

Maybe they do have it engineered to be completely safe and reliable.

My point is that they sank the test boat. This makes me skeptical of a system I was skeptical of after just watching the video.

I love the progression of wakeboats and the builders seem to know what we want. I just hope they aren't pushing too hard to out-do each other and end up rushing to release products that push it too far.

[wolfeman131]

And you know that was the ramfill boat? Remember what Abe Lincoln said, "don't believe everything you read on the interweb."

[viking]

I think you just contradicted yourself in your comments..... You indicated that the "ramfill" test boat sank. You also stated that it forces water in "at speed". Looks to me like its sitting at the dock.

I'm in the camp that argues any boat will sink in minutes if a 1inch (or 3 or 4 inch) hole is left unplugged. If you don't think so, just take your drain plug out and lets see how long it takes?

I don't care what system you have. Tested or untested. If you have more water entering the boat than you do exiting it's a matter of time.

Who cares if a test boat goes down in the long run. Helps fine tune the final product that is mass produced for the general public. But stupidity can be the culprit of alot of accidents and would appear that in this situation it's guilty again!!

All that said.............I'm still not going to be buying a centurion anytime soon. Not my cup of tea :)

[jmvotto]

Looks like you have to be moving to drain as well., the rear drain holes are below the water line, I assume they won't drain much at rest.

Where did the tower go in the sunk docked photo?

[wolfeman131]

Hmmmm . . .

Maybe the sunk boat isn't the one from the vid

[Grant M]

Where did the tower go in the sunk docked photo?[/QUOTE]

Isn't the black at the bottom of the pic the tower?

[sandm]

nate, I think you're reading too much into this..

new(old) product is developed(improved) and I would bet centurion does have a ton of hours testing that product. the pr/sales wheels take over and modify said product to fit a sales brochure/youtube mission and voila, boat sinks. ask how many other comp boat owners have modified ballast systems, got on the lake and had a fitting pop off flooding the boat with water?
sure, the argument can be made that 3" holes are much worse than 1", but ask yourself why we are all installing 1"? it's what's on the market. as consumers demand faster and faster technology, it'll change. heck, most boats went from a single hole on a manifold to 3-4 holes on separate pumps and from 3/4 to 1-1/4.

[NateHaskovec]

nate, I think you're reading too much into this..

new(old) product is developed(improved) and I would bet centurion does have a ton of hours testing that product. the pr/sales wheels take over and modify said product to fit a sales brochure/youtube mission and voila, boat sinks. ask how many other comp boat owners have modified ballast systems, got on the lake and had a fitting pop off flooding the boat with water?
sure, the argument can be made that 3" holes are much worse than 1", but ask yourself why we are all installing 1"? it's what's on the market. as consumers demand faster and faster technology, it'll change. heck, most boats went from a single hole on a manifold to 3-4 holes on separate pumps and from 3/4 to 1-1/4.

You are probably right.

My thought process is that a 3" hole is literally 10x bigger than a 1" hole. The square inch area of a 1" hole is .78in^2. A three inch hole is 7.06 in^2.

With two 3" holes in the system, the boat will sink 20x faster than if any of us experience a ballast failure.

Add that to the fact that the ramfill hydraulically shocks the ballast tanks, and ballast bags look better to me than ever.

Then there is the fact that if it does start flooding, you have to be on plane to drain the tanks.

Maybe I am overthinking it. I just feel bad for the beta testing new owners.

[NateHaskovec]

Hmmmm . . .

Maybe the sunk boat isn't the one from the vid

Look at the bow cushions in the video. It's the same boat.

[wolfeman131]

you don't think that they might have 2 boats with the same interior?

[jmvotto]

Where did the tower go in the sunk docked photo?

Isn't the black at the bottom of the pic the tower?[/QUOTE]

look at the video in the first pic. that tower sits right over the driver seat, could be folded down when it sunk ????
not sure could be a h20 optical illusion on the angle of the boat but its weird.

[sandm]

it's just a different way to fill the same setup that mb/calabria use. those boats have to be up on plane to empty as well. if it's a sealed tank just like theirs, "shocking" the ballast tanks really isn't any different than sitting and waiting while water floods a tank from the rear. look at the openings on the back of the mb and they are not 1". I have not heard horror stories of their boats sinking. I have heard of the gates failing and not dumping water or not closing, but they have a valve you can manually close/open. pita sure, but no different than one of our ballast pumps failing. centurion I would bet has the same valve on the bottom end. it'll just fill quicker, but again, if they are sealed tanks, it shouldn't be a big deal.

not trying to defend centurion as I'll probably not ever have one parked in my garage, but it's a cool twist on some existing technology that I'm sure has a lot of hours of testing on it with engineers that are paid to design boats and all we're doing is picking it apart without touching/feeling the end product.

[Stazi]

If you knew why that boat ended up that way you wouldn't, human error and nothing to do with ramfill, how did you get that picture?

Ruh roh! WOW....
In any case the Centurion is probably out of my price range, so a Mojo is most likely more of a possibility.

[moombadaze]

something I've been thinking about, the ass end of that boat is headed straight down to the bottom or is sitting on the bottom, maybe a bow rope is the only thing keeping it up? looks to me like there is no flotation in that boat. would really suck to sink any boat but it would be even worse to have it go to the bottom of the lake vrs being flooded at water level. not sure I want to give up flotation for the fill time.