Ideas on stereo improvement IN Boat...

[04OUTBACK]

So,
I am very pleased with my stereo... (4 Exile SXT65s on Tower with Harpoon, Exile 12" sub with 1500.1) and have a ZLD to install.
In boat i have the factory Kicker speakers and amp...
Here is whats up.. I am on a private lake now.. 1000 acre.. I havent yet been harassed about loud tower speakers... but suspect i will one quiet day out there...
The SXT65's arent meant to be real loud at wake distance... i'm good with that.. They do great.. for what I want..
What i am pondering is beefing up the cockpit to get louder / stronger in boat audio and run the tower less most times.. SO, 2 questions..
1. With the ZLD, if I turn the tower control down how is that affecting the amp? Voltage? Wattage? or is it just lowering the volume post amp? (i am no electrician.. ) My concern is i dont want the Harpoon running wide open with the tower vol turned down...i'd want the harpoon running lighter...

2. Suggestions for cockpit.. My first thought is 6 Exile SX65M and a 800.4.. pretty easy.. i am very pleased with all the exile stuff i have, BUT, I have to ask... how much improvement am i going to get from stock kickers and kicker amp to this setup? midbass improve? highs? strength of volume?


ALSO, GRADY, if you see this.. do you know of a trusted shop in Hattiesburg to do some work? I have my wires run for my ZLD, but want someone of knowledge to do the amp work/connections.. if I do this, i'll probably wait and have the amp swapped and do the ZLD at same time.. ALSO, should I run new speaker wire to these 6 to replace factory wiring?? last boat I replaced any cockpit speakers in had some realllllllly cheap thin wire...

THANKS.. TGIF! Answer this post and then go to the lake this weekend :-)

[jmvotto]

Brad, what amp is powering the cabin kickers right now? The exile system match is a great setup. for the towers I guess I would turn down some of the gain. but with the zld I don't thinks its running the harppon wide open and only hearing a fraction of the volume. I think your safe there.

[kaneboats]

I like your plan with the 6 Exile SX65M and the 800.4. That's going to be my next upgrade . . . some day. I'm sure the experts will chime in with the technical questions.

[mmandley]

For the ZLD its acts like a Fader, and when you turn the tower down it lowers the input voltage to the amp, so the amp is running less, not wide open with it muted per say.

When i went from the Factory Kickers to the Exile cabins it was a huge improvement man not just volume wise but sound in general. I have always liked the kicker speakers but to me there is too much tweet when they get loud and they just scream at you then. The SXM cabins have a warmer sound and surprising they can handle a lot of mid bass.

I would replace the cabin amp due to it most likely being a 250.4 kicker and thats not enough to run the Exiles. I would get the 800.4 to go with it. Then the cabin of your boat will rock so much you can just crank it up when surfing and just keep the towers at 50% so its not blasting way behind you.

[04OUTBACK]

Joe
not sure what the factory kicker amp is.. i think it is 250.4.. probably underpowered even for the kickers :-)

Appreciate the response.. hoping the ZLD does lower voltage on Harpoon.. lately, i have been turning down the tower with the PAC LC1 thats on it.. just wasnt sure if that affected the amp.. i suspect the way it feeds into the RCA's it just lowers the line level input into the amp so the amp is still running wide open to power the speakers at a low level..
Thats what i want to avoid is having the Harpoon running wide open with line level lowering..

[tgoody14]

When i went from the Factory Kickers to the Exile cabins it was a huge improvement man not just volume wise but sound in general. I have always liked the kicker speakers but to me there is too much tweet when they get loud and they just scream at you then. The SXM cabins have a warmer sound and surprising they can handle a lot of mid bass.

👆THIS!!!! I just swapped out my 4 factory cabin Kickers for 4 Exile cabins on my K700.5 amp and turned them on for a little while checking them out and making sure I had solid connections everywhere before continuing with the EQ! Without the EQ I could already tell a difference in sound quality and was kind of impressed... THEN I hooked up the EQ and started configuring how I wanted my highs, lows, and mid-bass and BOOM those Exiles came alive and blew me away!!! I was so impressed that I'll be ordering another pair of Exile to replace the bow speakers! That EQ makes all the difference in the world on the Exiles... IMO... And I didn't re-wire.. Plug and play right into the existing connectors!

Hope this helps,
Taylor

[MLA]

For the ZLD its acts like a Fader, and when you turn the tower down it lowers the input voltage to the amp, so the amp is running less, not wide open with it muted per say.

When i went from the Factory Kickers to the Exile cabins it was a huge improvement man not just volume wise but sound in general. I have always liked the kicker speakers but to me there is too much tweet when they get loud and they just scream at you then. The SXM cabins have a warmer sound and surprising they can handle a lot of mid bass.

I would replace the cabin amp due to it most likely being a 250.4 kicker and thats not enough to run the Exiles. I would get the 800.4 to go with it. Then the cabin of your boat will rock so much you can just crank it up when surfing and just keep the towers at 50% so its not blasting way behind you.

Mike, you also changed amps at the same time you swapped to the Exile in-boats, correct? Reason I ask, is that I find your comparison very strange, not wrong or inaccurate, just has me scratching my head, and here is why.

The OEM Kicker that SC uses, which i believe is still the km6130, is a 6.5 continuous mid-bass cone coax with a .5" tweeter. The Exile in-boat is also 6.5" mid-bass cone, but it has a 1" tweeter. I've demo'd both the exile "C" and "M" version. Both have an extremely aggressive tweeter as compared to even the Kicker KM6250.2 components with a 1" tweeter. The "C" was a pole-mounted tweeter and lacked the mid-bass to keep pace with the tweeter. The "M" has a grill-mounted tweeter. It offers a little more mid-bass, but still has a very strong tweeter.

Saying a .5" tweeter is too much high as compared to a 1" is like saying a 10" woofer is too much bass so i need a 12" :p. yes, the OEM amp choice is not pushing them to their potential. For a 2011, I think it was the DX200.4. Maybe Phil will know. Im running all 3 tweeter sizes Kicker offers, on 85Wrms @ 80Hz hi-pass. In a blind taste test, you would not believe they where the same speaker. So going from 25W rms to 75W rms with an amp upgrade like the xi800.4, regardless of a speaker change, would be a night and day difference. Also, with out knowing how those OEM's were tuned, makes it hard to make a fair comparison. Sounds like yours where just tuned way to high for your liking.

[EarmarkMarine]

The OEM Kickers use a W-dome (hybrid dome/cone) that has always had an erratic treble response regardless of which manufacturer employed it. It's especially edgy when played loud. However, when you step up in the Kicker line to the next series they adopt a true dome tweeter which is as smooth as any metal dome. Funny how the two Kicker marine speakers look identical at a glance but sound nothing alike.

David

[mmandley]

Mike, you also changed amps at the same time you swapped to the Exile in-boats, correct? Reason I ask, is that I find your comparison very strange, not wrong or inaccurate, just has me scratching my head, and here is why.

The OEM Kicker that SC uses, which i believe is still the km6130, is a 6.5 continuous mid-bass cone coax with a .5" tweeter. The Exile in-boat is also 6.5" mid-bass cone, but it has a 1" tweeter. I've demo'd both the exile "C" and "M" version. Both have an extremely aggressive tweeter as compared to even the Kicker KM6250.2 components with a 1" tweeter. The "C" was a pole-mounted tweeter and lacked the mid-bass to keep pace with the tweeter. The "M" has a grill-mounted tweeter. It offers a little more mid-bass, but still has a very strong tweeter.

Saying a .5" tweeter is too much high as compared to a 1" is like saying a 10" woofer is too much bass so i need a 12" :p. yes, the OEM amp choice is not pushing them to their potential. For a 2011, I think it was the DX200.4. Maybe Phil will know. Im running all 3 tweeter sizes Kicker offers, on 85Wrms @ 80Hz hi-pass. In a blind taste test, you would not believe they where the same speaker. So going from 25W rms to 75W rms with an amp upgrade like the xi800.4, regardless of a speaker change, would be a night and day difference. Also, with out knowing how those OEM's were tuned, makes it hard to make a fair comparison. Sounds like yours where just tuned way to high for your liking.

Yes eventually but i did play the Exiles on the 700.5 first because at the time i needed to hear the difference in order to spend the money.

Lets also agree i wasnt Comparing the 2 speakers, i was stating what i thought sounded different, I dont know anything technical about the 2 speakers. I just know how they sound different.

What Dave with Earmark is saying make complete sence.

It would make sence that the Facotry Kicker speakers have a smaller tweeter and it sounds different then a 1 inch tweeter.

Also if Brad wants to stay with Kicker cabins then thats for you and Earmark to give him sugestions because i dont know the brand well enough to speak on it technically.

How ever Brad has Exile towers, and a ZLD, and sub system, so just to keep him all on the same brand and he sugested he was thinking of the Exile cabins i offered my thoughts on a sound level to my ear how they were different.

[wolfeman131]

y'all craaaaaaayy & talking smackitty, smack, smack. here's what ya need, bro:

http://i555.photobucket.com/albums/jj449/icingcreations/SPEAKERS.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/icingcreations/media/SPEAKERS.jpg.html)

I'll cut you a schweet dealio on these bad boys!

[tgoody14]

Look what you've done Brad... Gahhh Just sell the boat, it's not worth all this trouble...

Someone is gonna get hurt...

I kid, I kid...

Edit: Wolfe, those won't work... The square box won't fit in the circular holes!

[jmvotto]

y'all craaaaaaayy & talking smackitty, smack, smack. here's what ya need, bro:

http://i555.photobucket.com/albums/jj449/icingcreations/SPEAKERS.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/icingcreations/media/SPEAKERS.jpg.html)

I'll cut you a schweet dealio on these bad boys!


Where would you set the amp gains on those puppies....:o

[MLA]

Yes eventually but i did play the Exiles on the 700.5 first because at the time i needed to hear the difference in order to spend the money.

Lets also agree i wasnt Comparing the 2 speakers, i was stating what i thought sounded different, I dont know anything technical about the 2 speakers. I just know how they sound different.

What Dave with Earmark is saying make complete sence.

It would make sence that the Facotry Kicker speakers have a smaller tweeter and it sounds different then a 1 inch tweeter.

Also if Brad wants to stay with Kicker cabins then thats for you and Earmark to give him sugestions because i dont know the brand well enough to speak on it technically.

How ever Brad has Exile towers, and a ZLD, and sub system, so just to keep him all on the same brand and he sugested he was thinking of the Exile cabins i offered my thoughts on a sound level to my ear how they were different.

Mike,

I agree 100% that there is a distinct difference in sound between them.....just as there is with a Polk, Wet Sounds, JL, Rockford on and on and on. What ones ears like is not for me to say, thats why I always try to stress getting a demo. I just thought your description was interesting considering the difference in size between the two tweeters. I have heard and re-tuned a few of the OEM setups and upgraded amps, but do not sell and install those OEMs with the .5" Tweeter. I stick to the .75" KM6200 and 1" KM6250.2, but happen to have the new KM6LED's with the .5" on the sound board.

I am not trying to talk him into staying with the OEM, nor am I trying to talk him out of the Exiles.

[sandm]

y'all craaaaaaayy & talking smackitty, smack, smack. here's what ya need, bro:

I'll cut you a schweet dealio on these bad boys!

holy 1980's batman.... I'll give ya $5, but you gotta pay for shipping.. it would be the first step toward a mancave like new guys :)

[EarmarkMarine]

"1. With the ZLD, if I turn the tower control down how is that affecting the amp? Voltage? Wattage? or is it just lowering the volume post amp? (i am no electrician.. ) My concern is i dont want the Harpoon running wide open with the tower vol turned down...i'd want the harpoon running lighter..."

Think of an amplifier as a water valve. You have all this voltage potential from the battery system backed up by some serious current (force). Just like a giant water reservoir.
Then you have the output that goes to the speaker. Just like the garden hose output.
The input from your source unit or EQ is like your hand on the water valve. It opens and closes thereby restricting or opening the pathway from the supply to the speakers. You can have a light stream or powerful stream. And of course the supply is also modulated (pulsing so to speak) by the dynamic music.
If the amplifier valve is nearly closed by the the source unit or EQ then very little of that supply potential is flowing and the inverse is true if the source unit or EQ substantially opens the amplifier valve.
An amplifier is a unique electrical multiplier in the sense that you can control this gigantic reservior of potential (battery & charging system) with the very tiny audio signal from the source.
Hopefully I have helped take the mystery out of controlling the amplifier.
The amplifier doesn't really generate power as much as it just transforms the available supply of power. When it is turned down it simply does not pass power.
There will always be a certain amount of idle current when the amplifier level is reduced. But it is not enough to be concerned with.

David

[newty]

y'all craaaaaaayy & talking smackitty, smack, smack. here's what ya need, bro:

http://i555.photobucket.com/albums/jj449/icingcreations/SPEAKERS.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/icingcreations/media/SPEAKERS.jpg.html)

I'll cut you a schweet dealio on these bad boys!

Shoot mang... let's hang em air speakers from that roll bar ya got thar. I bet itt'l sound reel cool!

[kaneboats]

"1. With the ZLD, if I turn the tower control down how is that affecting the amp? Voltage? Wattage? or is it just lowering the volume post amp? (i am no electrician.. ) My concern is i dont want the Harpoon running wide open with the tower vol turned down...i'd want the harpoon running lighter..."

Think of an amplifier as a water valve. You have all this voltage potential from the battery system backed up by some serious current (force). Just like a giant water reservoir.
Then you have the output that goes to the speaker. Just like the garden hose output.
The input from your source unit or EQ is like your hand on the water valve. It opens and closes thereby restricting or opening the pathway from the supply to the speakers. You can have a light stream or powerful stream. And of course the supply is also modulated (pulsing so to speak) by the dynamic music.
If the amplifier valve is nearly closed by the the source unit or EQ then very little of that supply potential is flowing and the inverse is true if the source unit or EQ substantially opens the amplifier valve.
An amplifier is a unique electrical multiplier in the sense that you can control this gigantic reservior of potential (battery & charging system) with the very tiny audio signal from the source.
Hopefully I have helped take the mystery out of controlling the amplifier.
The amplifier doesn't really generate power as much as it just transforms the available supply of power. When it is turned down it simply does not pass power.
There will always be a certain amount of idle current when the amplifier level is reduced. But it is not enough to be concerned with.

David

One of the finest analogies I've heard from David on this stuff. Very helpful. Nice job.

[jmvotto]

One of the finest analogies I've heard from David on this stuff. Very helpful. Nice job.

I agree, nice write up David

[tgoody14]

One of the finest analogies I've heard from David on this stuff. Very helpful. Nice job.

Agreed 👏
⭐ for David

Seriously tho, very well put big guy

[04OUTBACK]

Thanks David

Wolfe
I want them for my EL Camino

[wolfeman131]

I knew those babies would get you all to act a fool.

[kaneboats]

Well, I hope you already have your big rig stacks exhaust on that camino.