Yet another weighting question

[dhyams]

I plumbed in IBS; when you are wakesurfing, are you supposed to fill just one of the two front bags, or both?

The other day, I filled the middle bag all the way, the front two as much as I could before the seat cushions popped, and the right corner bag all the way. I still couldn't find any sweet spot (first time surfer), but my kids seemed to be able to find it briefly anyway, with me sitting on the right corner too. Unfortunately there was no one sitting on the corner for me while I surfed...

[lewisb13]

What boat do you have? I can't really tell from your avatar. Anyways most will tell you that you need more weight in the rear than you are currently running. The weigh in the nose (along with speed) controls how LONG the pocket is. If you make the pocket too long, which it sounds like is the problem, then you won't have any "push" and it will feel like there's never a sweet spot. At a bare minimum you should have 750lbs either in the surf side locker or some combination of bags between the locker and on the seats or under the seats. This is just a starting point, many will chime in here and of course everyone's boat is different when it comes to water conditions, # of people on the boat, speed, wake plate position, etc

[kaneboats]

Also, do you have a wakeplate? Try putting it all the way up and adjust down from there.

[dhyams]

lewisb: I have a Moomba Mobius 2005 LSV, which from what I understand is the same hull as the current Outback V.

Current ballast configuration is:
750's in the back lockers
580 in the ski locker (center)
400's under the port/starboard front seats

So when we were surfing we had:
the left corner locker full (750)
the center bag full (580)
the front two bags partially full (probably 400 lbs between them).

I kind of forgot about even having a wake plate :eek: ; I'll remember to mess with that next time; I don't remember how it was set when we were surfing. And there were only 4 small kids and my wife in the boat, so not a lot of weight there.

It sounds like you guys are right in saying that the pocket was too long...I pretty systematically searched all over the place for the sweet spot, and never found any spot that would let me drop the rope. I also tried to put a fair amount of my weight forward on the surfboard too, thinking that that should help me go faster forward.

The board used is an inland surfer squirt, and I'm 210 lbs. My two boys (weigh about 120 lbs each) were able to find somewhat of a sweet spot, but they also had the advantage that my 210 lbs was sitting on the backmost right corner of the boat (meaning not in the seats but actually on the corner), so that probably helped the wave a bit.

[lewisb13]

I would ditch the nose weight and put your wake plate all the way up. Once you get a good pocket then start adding nose weight until you get the wave you want. What speed are you running at?

[dhyams]

Speed: 10.5 mph, maybe 11.5 for me...told the wife to speed up a little and I think she did... ;)

[lewisb13]

You have cruise control right? My 05lsv did not

[kaneboats]

Start at 9.5 to 10 with the plate all the way up and go from there. I think you found your problem.

[wolfeman131]

lewisb: I have a Moomba Mobius 2005 LSV, which from what I understand is the same hull as the current Outback V.



2005 LSV is the same hull as the 2006-2008 OBV, not the current one. I owned that boat and you're almost there as kane pointed out. Get the wakeplate 3/4 to full up, nose full, center full and surf side full. Our boat liked between 9.8 and 10.2 mph. We run a crew of myself, wife & 3 kids under 13.

[parrothd]

2005 LSV is the same hull as the 2006-2008 OBV, not the current one. I owned that boat and you're almost there as kane pointed out. Get the wakeplate 3/4 to full up, nose full, center full and surf side full. Our boat liked between 9.8 and 10.2 mph. We run a crew of myself, wife & 3 kids under 13.

Yep and moving one person around can change the wave dramatically...Best to get everyone in their spots and test the wave, we usually drop one in the water and then test. Water depth almost makes a big difference, deeper is better..

[dhyams]

Thanks guys!

[dhyams]

Failed again :(

Went out last night, with pretty much the same results. Still not sure what I'm doing wrong...I was running with the ski-locker bag full, left side locker full, and wakeplate all the way up. Still was not able to even come close to letting go of the line, even when I moved up pretty far on the board. :(

[lewisb13]

Thats so weird. I was trying to figure out how to upload thos video of my 05 with me absolutely shredding some gnar with STOCK ballast. Can you take some pictures for us so we can see whats going on? No water in the ibs correct?

[parrothd]

Thats so weird. I was trying to figure out how to upload thos video of my 05 with me absolutely shredding some gnar with STOCK ballast. Can you take some pictures for us so we can see whats going on? No water in the ibs correct?

Do you know how to surf?

Even with the crappiest wave you should be able to get slack in the surf rope...

Surf is like standing in the middle of a teeter totter.

First you need to get up and move into the meaty part of the wave, probably really close to the swim platform, 1-2 feet back. I tell folks to pick a spot on the platform and stare at it, this helps judge the distance and allows you to react quicker. There's a sweet spot and it can be really small, 6-12inches when you start out. You'll find it once you find the sweet spot and have your weight setup, the rope will slacken, but don't let go.

You need to balance yourself by moving your feet forward backwards on the board. 1/2in either way is huge amount. You need to find the balance/neutral point, like standing in the middle of a teeter totter you want to keep both both end of the teeter totter off the ground.

To much weight on your front foot and the teeter totter hits the ground, or in surfing pearling, the front of the board goes under the water, game over. To much on the back foot and the other end of the teeter totter hits the ground game over. Or you're dragging yourself around with the rope...

To go faster, or towards the boat you slightly shift your weigh to your front foot, not enough to pearl, just enough to move the teeter totter down without hitting the ground. To slow down or move away from the boat you put more weight on the back. We're talking a few pounds of pressure here...

When you start out it helps to center yourself a little forward of your neutral spot. This way when you freak out and stand into your normal stance the board will actually speed up and help you recover. You actually have to think about putting weight on your back foot to keep you from running into the boat. But as soon as you stand normally the board will speed up. It also helps to kinda rock between the two. 1-2 seconds forward followed by 1 second of back. You want to look at the platform and try to stay within that sweet spot by slightly moving your weight forward & backwards and there's a slight delay in response..

[parrothd]

Here's when we started out so you can see a wave..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8a0et8cyFw&feature=youtu.be

[wolfeman131]

2005 LSV hull is same as 2008 OBV hull. This video is from that boat with the center full, 750 in port locker, Momma & 11 yr old daughter on port side, wakeplate up and 9.8-10.3 mph.

http://youtu.be/UqGn-ZS5N40

Does your wave look anything like this? If not, try the setup above.

If so, what board are you riding?

Are you trying to surf like parrot described?

[dhyams]

Thanks for all of the help and advice!

lewisb: The way my IBS is plumbed in, it fills both the ski-locker bag and the front IBS's at the same time. So yes, there was some weight up front, but they weren't all the way full. Maybe halfway, which would be 300-400 lbs up front I guesss.

parrothd: I'm a wakeboarder not a surfer...but I'm doing all of the things you describe. I did shift my balance point forward to try to naturally accelerate as much as possible. In other words, I'm definitely not burying the tail of the board, which would slow me down.

wolfeman: As far as I can remember, yes, my wave looks like yours. Board is an inland surfer squirt.

I felt like the first time out, we had a better wave. We had 2 more kids in the boat (small kids, but still about 200 extra lbs on the port side), and I'm pretty sure our starboard locker had some water in there too (maybe 1/3 full) just
due to me not noticing it.

Maybe the water I'm in is too shallow? It tends to range from 8-15 ft...I guess I should go out in the channel next time.

We are going 10.5-11 mph, kind of varying up and down (mostly up) to try to create a sweet spot. It will probably be another week and a half before I can give it another go, and I'll try to remember to bring a camera along so that you guys can see what I see.

[parrothd]

Deeper is better, the wave will be crappy at 8, really good at 15.

You might be going to fast with the IBS, try starting at 9.5mph and working up and make sure everything is filled to the max..

[wolfeman131]

We are going 10.5-11 mph

I think you're going too fast.

[bergermaister]

Board is an inland surfer squirt.


How big of a guy are you or the riders on this board? My experience has been that once you get close to the 200lb mark you're going to need a strong wave to keep any kind of a pocket and free ride.

Also curious, since you're a wakeboarder at heart, are you letting the boat pull you with the nose of the board almost facing away from the boat (riding an edge) or are you pointing the board more into the face of the wave ~ aiming more towards the swim platform to ride with the wave and let it push you.

Thing I've noticed is that kids and smaller riders can get away with nosing further out and away from the back of the boat and keep riding. A bigger guy on a 5' board, with an iffy wave, will definitely need to ride with the face of the wave.

Does that make any sense at all? I haven't been drinking yet so maybe not...

EDIT: Oh yeah - I ride the squirt too. Back foot jammed up against the traction pad hump, front foot where ever it feels right but usually a few inches in front of the logo. I've seen others struggle on this board because they didn't have their back foot planted all the way back.

[cab13367]

This is a pic of the wave on my 2006 LSV with just a 750 in the rear locker and 400 in the front, no IBS, 2 kids and wife on board. If your wave looks something like that, then you just need to practice. Give it a little time. You say you are a first time surfer and weigh 210 lbs so I think it's a little unrealistic to expect that you will be able to freeride right away. You have to get a feel for it. Also, it would help if you got a little bigger and floatier (surf style instead of skim style) board.

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs268.snc1/9534_1225427359598_1346450172_661847_2429842_n.jpg

[dhyams]

berg:

I'm 210. The kids ride the same board and they are both around 120....one of them was able to freeride for a brief moment (more because of lack of technique than lack of wave).

I'm definitely pointing into the wave...I made an effort to put a little more weight on the toeside edge of the board, figuring that I needed to counteract the wave slope by edging into the wave a slight amount.

My feet weren't as far back as what you're describing though...the only time my foot touched the traction pad hump was one time that I almost fell. I was trying to keep my weight well forward thinking that would give me more speed.

[dhyams]

This is a pic of the wave on my 2006 LSV with just a 750 in the rear locker and 400 in the front, no IBS, 2 kids and wife on board. If your wave looks something like that, then you just need to practice. Give it a little time. You say you are a first time surfer and weigh 210 lbs so I think it's a little unrealistic to expect that you will be able to freeride right away. You have to get a feel for it. Also, it would help if you got a little bigger and floatier (surf style instead of skim style) board.


My wave looks similar, but not nearly that clean. And yeah, I don't expect to be freeriding like a pro...I just figured that I would find somewhere that the rope would slack, but never found it. The first day I tried there was a slight slackening a couple of times; yesterday not a chance...I was pulling hard on the rope the entire time.

[bergermaister]

Man that is a clean wave Al...

I think we need video. Easier to see it and suggest tweaks.

[z28ke]

Your going too fast. With my OBV we started around 8-9mph and are increasing speed as we add weight. With your setup start try 8 mph. I was 220lbs+ when I started (now 202 woohoo!) and at much over 9 mph the boat would leave my ass, and I was on a hyperlite landlock. First time I tried surfing was on a friends broadcast, it wouldn't come close to floating me/letting me go rope less. I ordered the landlock and was shredding next time out with your ballast setup at 8-9 mph.

[Salyers]

Too much weight on back foot is my guess. Even with front foot further forward you can still have too much weight on your back foot. With the weight your talking about your should have enough push. I could surf my 2009 LS with stock weight. It sucked but it worked. Probably going too fast also. Keep practicing! If your pulling hard on the rope your probably leaning back too much.

[Canuckle Head]

I think you're going too fast.

10.5 works perfect for me but I run extra nose weight (ibs) and also run an additional 750 in the seating area.

[bergermaister]

Too much weight on back foot is my guess.

Dude I'm telling you - keep that back foot at the on the traction bump! Not all your weight on it, but after 2 years on this board that's where you want it planted. I'm 6'3 about 205 and that's where this board likes to be ridden regardless of your weight. Kids have been on it further up and are all squirrely and impossible to free ride. They plant their foot back there and boom they've got it.

http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k414/grberglund/MoombaMobiusV/P1070746.jpg

Dial in your wave and then figuring out your riding stance will be easier fo sho.

[z28ke]

Any updates? How far back from the boat are you riding?

[Boatdrinks797]

What's the recipe for surfing a 13 LSV with stock ballast?

The weather has been horrible and I've been trying to add hours in-between storms every weekend since it showed up. I got a couple hours to go before break-in is done and I haven't messed around with the bags much until I finish that. This weekend isn't looking any better either, but, at least I know the heaters are working!

[wolfeman131]

Center full, surf side full, 10.0mph and Wakeplate all the way up.

When the above doesn't satisfy you, add 1,100's in the rear, 370 under port seats and an IBS. :)

[dhyams]

Any updates? How far back from the boat are you riding?

Just a non-update really...I tried surfing again last weekend, and this time I even had extra adults in the boat, and still couldn't do it. I forgot the camera for a video, so when I manage to not forget it, I'll post a video of the wave (and perhaps me trying to surf).

[98outback]

My boat is a little different but I noticed putting weight on both sides in the bow messes my wave up. I just run the plate 3/4 the way up, 750 port rear, 300 port bow and around 10-10.5. And anyone in the boat sits on the port side.

[dhyams]

I'm still not able to catch the wave...I have a video this time though! Any advice very welcome! I'm beginning to think that board is too small for me.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3hldu4s53xqwl5x/Wave.mp4

That's going 9.5 if I remember right, wakeplate down I think, 750 in left locker, ski locker full, front bags partially full, 05 lsv.

[wolfeman131]

every time that rope gets the bend in it - you're surfing! and, every time you transfer your weight backwards, you're shooting yourself right back over the wave.

LET GO OF THE ROPE! Especially with your lead/left hand. Shorten that rope up, too so you don't have that massive coil in your right hand. You need a bit more bend in the knee, upper body leaning towards the boat more/more weight on your forward/left foot. You will find that it takes more forward weight to stay in the pocket than backward weight to brake & fall out of the pocket. With your boat, you will be surfing fairly close to the platform.

LET GO OF THE ROPE! You're using it as a crutch to stay in the wave. You need to feel the weight shift required to stay in the wave. Don't use the rope until you've fallen over the back of the wave and then use it to power yourself back up & over and back into the pocket. Your arm shouldn't straighten out until you've completely lost it. With that board, you're going to need to work the board by pumping (small ollies) to stay in the wave.

Make sure the wakeplate is UP, not down, and get the speed to 9.8-10.2, fill the front bag 100%.

You are ALMOST there! Nothing wrong with the board. You will get the hang of it soon and start having a lot of fun on that board. You just need some work on technique, not equipment.

Hope that helps next time you go out and ride.

[dhyams]

Sorry, correction to what I said about the wake plate to clarify...maybe I'm getting the terminology backwards...but it was UP, meaning that the back end of the boat was dug in with the bow raised up.

[parrothd]

Yea. Looks like your surfing to me but you're cheating holding the rope like that. Hold the end and only use it when you fall off the wave completely. Also pick a spot on the platform when you get slack in the rope note the distance from the platform to your board tip.. Then by shifting your weight try to keep that same distance without pulling on the rope.. You want to keep your rope hand near your body or else it'll throw off your center..


I didn't watch the whole video, but right at sec 00:22/23 that's where you want to be to to start.. The rest you were to far back..

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

[parrothd]

Yea. Looks like your surfing to me but you're cheating holding the rope like that. Hold the end and only use it when you fall off the wave completely. Also pick a spot on the platform when you get slack in the rope note the distance from the platform to your board tip.. Then by shifting your weight try to keep that same distance without pulling on the rope.. You want to keep your rope hand near your body or else it'll throw off your center..


I didn't watch the whole video, but right at sec 00:22/23 that's where you want to be to to start.. The rest you were to far back..

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

Correction more like 00:21 00:22 the meaty party of the wave..

[bergermaister]

Looks like the nose of the board is riding up a little for the most part, so you have a bit more room to put your weight forward, as already mentioned, before you pearl/bury the nose. My IS Squirt is right on the verge of pearling about 1/2 the time unless my wave is big big. Still very ridable once you get the feel for it. And you WILL!

Not that you can control this much - but smoother water would be your friend too...

[wolfeman131]

OK, so boat sounds like it's set up right. Maybe move the wakeplate to 3/4 to give a bit more length and space to catch back up. Don't want to overload you with too many bits of advice, but parrot mentioned a good one. There should be a black & silver sticker on the rear, port corner of your boat that reads something about "World Championship Wakeboard Boat" or something like that. Focus your eyes & point the tip of the board at that sticker.

[dhyams]

OK, so what I'm hearing is that the wave is OK, with the problem being my lack of skill? ;)

I'll try to do better with the rope...I wasn't trying to cheat, but just to keep it in my hand to save myself if I was going backwards...that would save the boat having to turn around and come get me.

It's hard to see in the video, but the couple of times the line got really slack, the tip of my board was practically on the swim platform. Obviously I decelerated at that point, but too much.

[wolfeman131]

I think you've got it!

It's hard not to cheat with the rope, but a few tricks have been put out there for you. Keep a very light grip/barely hold it until really needed, keep it in your back hand, shorten it up so you don't have that massive coil.

Try to get the wave a bit longer so you're not up on the platform, but know that with your boat, you're going to have to ride close to it. It will take more forward weight than back to stay in position.

You're very close and you'll have it after another weekend of working on it.

[mmandley]

OK, so what I'm hearing is that the wave is OK, with the problem being my lack of skill? ;)

I'll try to do better with the rope...I wasn't trying to cheat, but just to keep it in my hand to save myself if I was going backwards...that would save the boat having to turn around and come get me.

It's hard to see in the video, but the couple of times the line got really slack, the tip of my board was practically on the swim platform. Obviously I decelerated at that point, but too much.

It takes a lot of practice, those people you see or hear about getting up there first day and free roping it are on dialed in waves, with a crew member who knows how to surf and can direct everything to them to make them successful the first time up.

Other then all the great advise you have be given so fare, i would in general move both feet forward on the board. You dont need your back foot way back there in the back.

Since your wave and pocket are short you don't need to much back foot to get out of the wave.
Moving both feet forward also stops the <reaction> of leaving back when you catch the wave.

Also realistically don't expect to catch the pocket and stand there and surf in it, its a constant slowly leaning forward and back this helps create push under your board.

Think about the boat, you can hear the engine constantly changing tones, and if you have Perfect pass you will see it always speeding up and slowing down a little, this is due to drag on the boat, water, and waves. Same thing for you on your surf board.

First move up on the board a little, second, slow your movements, it takes a second or 2 for the board to respond to your forward and back so you will be over correcting a lot.

As for the rope, shorten it up a bit so you don't have a ton to hold onto. I personally have no problem with someone holding the rope so I'm not constantly turning around, i do have a problem if they are surfing with slack a lot and holding the rope LOL. Then i think its a crutch. At your level of surfing its not a crutch at all.

I tend to like to hold the rope in my leading hand, so as i fall out of the wave a little i can extend my arm and still try to catch the wave before i lose it, but thats me.