A Simple Yes Or No?

[KRAK]

Is a single Harpoon enough power for two sets (4) REV8's?

No more than a 1 sentence answer please!!!

I don't need, or want, page long answers trashing each brand and for this to turn into a big fight again, ok? I just want to know if its enough power.


(I've been waiting since September when I ordered my 4-XM9's and Harpoon, amp came in long time ago, they said the 9's got lost. They've re-ordered them twice now but told me they have no idea when the 9's will be back in stock so they are ordering me REV 8's instead. Those are in stock an I should see them next week.)



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[MLA]

No! Sorry for the second sentence, forum made me enter 10 or more characters.

[ian ashton]

Oh man. Exile powering Wetsounds? Try it and I think the world will implode. I can't wait to see an Earmark dissertation on why this wont work...

[mmandley]

Not saying Yes or No

Off WS Site
Rev 8 spec
Impedance: 4 ohms
RMS Watts: 200
PEAK Watts: 400


Off Exile Site
Harpoon Spec
Power: (continueous)
300W x 2 (4 ohm)
500W x 2 (2 ohm)

[jmvotto]

YES , should work fine

[Brianinpdx]

Krak - Yes the harpoon can power those speakers no problem.

-Brian
Exile Audio

[RobertJ]

Try one as long as it won't damage the speakers if you don't like what one gives you then add the second.

[EarmarkMarine]

Not bashing any products. Just telling it like it is.
The Exile Harpoon amplifier has been tested by an independent lab with over $50K in sophisticated test equipment at 2 times 370 watts into a 2-ohm load at 1 kHz at 1% total noise and distortion with a 14.4 volt supply. These are CEA2006 standards for measurement.
With quantity four 4-ohm Wetsounds Rev8s that would be 185 watts rms to each of the four speakers.
The Wetsounds Rev8 is rated at 200 watts rms (continuous power) which is an indication of the thermal rating. That's pretty close.
I sure hate to disappoint everyone but IMO that combination will work okay.
Will you get all the 14.4 volt power in a boat? No. Because you will not develop 14.4 volts.
Most amplifiers will drop a minimum of 25 percent of their 14.4 volt power with a 12.5 volt supply. But that 25 percent drop represents only a 1 to 1.25 dB level in output which is barely audible under ideal conditions. So we are in the game.

David

[Brianinpdx]

Always attacking. Always attacking. Why? At least get your facts straight. That's the longest yes or no, i've read in the thread. And you still didnt say yes. Or no. lol. It's cool.

[sandm]

IMO that combination will work okay.

knowing the history of this forum, I'll take that as a YES from David. :)
looking at the specs that mike threw out, I'd run it on my boat. knowing that there are people on here that are running both prducts and very happy with each, I can say that I believe that combination would put a smile on my face..

nice thing about audio.. if you are not happy in the end, theres enough of a market to sell either amps or speakers and go down a different road or add a second harpoon(hello hearing test)..

either way be sure and post up what you end up with and your subjective opinions of the results..

[sgoyal]

I'm disappointed.. I was hoping for Movie trilogy LOL... Glad to see this thread NOT going over 3-4 pages just over *$#&%*&$*

[wolfeman131]

Not bashing any products. Just telling it like it is.
The Exile Harpoon amplifier has been tested by an independent lab with over $50K in sophisticated test equipment at 2 times 370 watts into a 2-ohm load at 1 kHz at 1% total noise and distortion with a 14.4 volt supply. These are CEA2006 standards for measurement.
With quantity four 4-ohm Wetsounds Rev8s that would be 185 watts rms to each of the four speakers.
The Wetsounds Rev8 is rated at 200 watts rms (continuous power) which is an indication of the thermal rating. That's pretty close.
I sure hate to disappoint everyone but IMO that combination will work okay.
Will you get all the 14.4 volt power in a boat? No. Because you will not develop 14.4 volts.
Most amplifiers will drop a minimum of 25 percent of their 14.4 volt power with a 12.5 volt supply. But that 25 percent drop represents only a 1 to 1.25 dB level in output which is barely audible under ideal conditions. So we are in the game.

David


Always attacking. Always attacking. Why? At least get your facts straight. That's the longest yes or no, i've read in the thread. And you still didnt say yes. Or no. lol. It's cool.

So, I'm going highjack this thread . . . .

I agree with sandm - David stated it would work, so I'm not sure how that was attacking, unless you're arguing that the "facts" you want to have straight are the independent lab results. And, to a point, I'll agree with you until I'm told who the lab is, when the testing was completed and a scan of the test report is posted up.

[MLA]

knowing the history of this forum, I'll take that as a YES from David. :)
looking at the specs that mike threw out, I'd run it on my boat. knowing that there are people on here that are running both prducts and very happy with each, I can say that I believe that combination would put a smile on my face..

nice thing about audio.. if you are not happy in the end, theres enough of a market to sell either amps or speakers and go down a different road or add a second harpoon(hello hearing test)..

either way be sure and post up what you end up with and your subjective opinions of the results..

A single harpoon is a $700 retail investment (per the exile store page), requires a fair amount of realestate to mount it and is very inefficient as compared to newer technology. Adding a 2nd would be a $1400 investment with no audible difference at the end of a tow rope.

Brian,

Once again, I hate to break it to ya pardner, but the 370W rms x 2 @ 2 ohm @ 14.4V specs posted above are accurate.

Can you explain for the benefit of the Moomba community, how your Class-A/B amp is able to convert 12V DC to 1000W rms through only its two 40A internal fuses? I know your past, current and future customers are more then able to comprehend this info if you would only provide it. IMO, this is a far better approach then just telling people to get their facts straight. I am just asking you to please straighten the facts for us?

[KG's Supra24]

2 of the 3 local audio gurus have chimed in. :rolleyes: mla a no, i read David as a yes. I'd assume Brian was saying yes.

My original thought was that it would work but probably not the first match if starting from scratch. I typically see people recommend an amp that pushes a little more than what the revs are rated for. Harpoon is near the range though. My take away from David is that the additional 50 to 100 Watts from an amp swap wouldn't be much of a discernable difference.

My answer is yes. Not worth swapping amp unless you want to match gear. I figured this thread would land you some 9s, though, if that is what you want. Are they out everywhere?

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[KG's Supra24]

2 of 4 ... Didn't mean to leave Phil out

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[sgoyal]

2 of 4 ... Didn't mean to leave Phil out

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HAHA.. :twisted:

[philwsailz]

Hah!, my one sentence answer is that one independent retailer said it would work and another independent retailer said it wouldn't, while a manufacturer of one of the brands in question responded with a "yes" answer; I would call that a tie if this were a polling thread......

:D

Phil
Kicker

[brain_rinse]

Hah!, my one sentence answer is that one independent retailer said it would work and another independent retailer said it wouldn't, while a manufacturer of one of the brands in question responded with a "yes" answer; I would call that a tie if this were a polling thread......

:D

Phil
Kicker

So your vote gets to break the tie. Drumroll...........

[EarmarkMarine]

I base my 'Yes' answer on accurate information and 'straight facts', if you know what I mean. I did save the test results.
Here is another way of viewing the decision. The Wetsounds Syn2 as tested is the identical power as the Exile Harpoon. Wetsounds routinely recommends a Syn2 to drive two pair of Rev8s. So if it is good enough for Wetsounds I think it is good enough for Exile.
Wetsounds wouldn't mind the Rev8s seeing more power. The Rev8 has a 2-inch voice coil which is unusually large for an 8-inch HLCD. But the next step up in amplification to hear a dicernable difference is going to be a major jump in cost.

David

[philwsailz]

So your vote gets to break the tie. Drumroll...........

I'm not taking that bait.... :D

[jmvotto]

So, I'm going highjack this thread . . . .

I agree with sandm - David stated it would work, so I'm not sure how that was attacking, unless you're arguing that the "facts" you want to have straight are the independent lab results. And, to a point, I'll agree with you until I'm told who the lab is, when the testing was completed and a scan of the test report is posted up.


I am with drew on this one, Proof is in the test results, post em up. Hopefully it wasn't jonyb who did them?:rolleyes:


Like to see them on other brands as well if available.

[sgoyal]

I am with drew on this one, Proof is in the test results, post em up. Hopefully it wasn't jonyb who did them?:rolleyes:


Like to see them on other brands as well if available.

Jonyb - I think I know where you are going with this.. :cool:

[Brianinpdx]

Not bashing any products. Just telling it like it is.
The Exile Harpoon amplifier has been tested by an independent lab with over $50K in sophisticated test equipment at 2 times 370 watts into a 2-ohm load at 1 kHz at 1% total noise and distortion with a 14.4 volt supply. These are CEA2006 standards for measurement.
With quantity four 4-ohm Wetsounds Rev8s that would be 185 watts rms to each of the four speakers.
The Wetsounds Rev8 is rated at 200 watts rms (continuous power) which is an indication of the thermal rating. That's pretty close.

David

re facts straight. No David, Incorrect. CEA-2006 standards is based on exactly two things. 4ohm power and S/N ratio as seen below:

http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k491/brianinpdx/ScreenShot2013-05-10at114142AM_zps446aa8f3.png (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/brianinpdx/media/ScreenShot2013-05-10at114142AM_zps446aa8f3.png.html)

All this CEA stuff was originally implemented to combat head unit manufactures posting 4x1000 on their boxes. A lot of that has changed in the last 7 years. If you want to become a CEA retailer member, by all means test our product. It's done in a very controlled manner. David I'm sorry, but you didnt involve us in your test. Nor did you involve the CEA. They ARE the independent source.

I've never had anyone ever think a harpoon was lacking in the power department but one thing we are considering doing in the future is putting actual birth certificates in each box so owners can see what their amplifier "actually does" as compared to spec. Some will be a lilmore, some will be a lil less power wise. We used to do this back in the 90's and people would get stoked.

-Brian

[EarmarkMarine]

Sometimes you just don't have the good sense to not keep this going so here you go with both 4-ohm and 2-ohm power. The following is the test gear and conditions in which the tests where conducted by an independent lab owned by Robert Zeff in the Pacific NW.
"All tests are performed with an Audio Precision 2322 Dual Domain Analyzer with the Aux-0025 filter for testing Class D amplifiers. The power supply is an Agilent 6000 watt unit fed from 3-phase service. Test loads are one-percent non-inductive resistors comprised of 500 watt for 4-ohm loads, 1000 watt or 2500 watt for 2-ohm loads and 5000 watt for 1-ohm loads. 1/0 gauge power and ground cable was used with the 14.4 volt voltage adjusted for measurement at the amplifier primary terminals to offset any voltage loss."
Here is the link to the Harpoon read-out. One channel is less power and one channel is more power. The two numbers are averaged.

http://www.earmarkcaraudio.com/Xcart_Images/Exile1000.2Graph.jpg

I have all the needed power supply (200 amps), 2000 watts of load resistors, and test gear so that I can confirm the same results. Plus, anybody can figure out that a Class AB amplifier with 80 amps of fusing is going to be challenged to get to 1000 watts.

Now here is an interesting link on the older Exile x800.4 amplifier.

http://www.soundbuggy.com/Eric/Car%20Audio/exile/x800_4/

The Exile x800.4 was rated at 800 watts (4 X 200 at 2-ohms). And it met spec when Morgan West was with Exile (the real product guy). It had twin power supplies and get this....it had 120 amps of fusing!
So it is replaced with the newer Exile xi800.4 which has a single power supply and 60 amps fusing (ONE HALF) yet it maintains the same model designation and the same power rating. Draw your own conclusion but I call that flat out deceptive. We also tested the xi800.4 and it is only a fraction of the Exile power rating.

David

[zabooda]

I hate to further deviate from the original post but it appears that the chatter comes from CEA2006 evaluations being performed by different labs so the quality assurance of this process will never be exactly the same. Until you have one lab doing consistant work this will be a problem and makes the CEA2006 process questionable. You need to go to the guru of testing which still may be debatable.

I've seen that over and over except for nuclear grade components which are 10 times the cost of a commercial grade item. I don't have a horse in this race but your issues with each other is rather minor compared to the article I posted where the power in requirements will never get to the power out without devine intervention.

http://www.mobileedgeonline.com/mobile-edge-tests-the-real-world-output-of-2-amplifiers


There is no required governing body for car audio ratings. There are no testing laboratories that manufacturers have to send their equipment to. Any manufacturer can claim any power rating that they want. It’s that simple. (It is important to note that there is an industry standard called CEA 2006-B. Manufacturers are not required to take part in it. When comparing 2 amplifiers that are rated by CEA 2006-B guidelines you can get a good apples to apples comparison. Also, almost all of the reputable industry manufacturers use Cogent Laboratories in Chandler, Az for their testing and independent validation.)

[beat taco]

what we are considering doing in the future is putting actual birth certificates in each box so owners can see what their amplifier "actually does" as compared to spec. Some will be a lilmore, some will be a lil less power wise. We used to do this back in the 90's and people would get stoked.

-Brian

Having owned most of the amps on this page ( http://webfaq.phoenixphorum.com/index.htm ) and still owning a few that's a great idea. My ZPA .5 put down over 1,000 watts of real, clean power. Not to mention it was a piece of art.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/05/11/ysaqarud.jpg

[newty]

So is that a yes?

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[sandm]

So is that a yes?

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2

I took it as a maybe depending on the weather in florida :)

[jmvotto]

Maybe Ed G should break the Tie!!!

[zabooda]

Only if he can have a group buy on Crocs (the shoe).

[sandm]

Maybe Ed G should break the Tie!!!


this decision from the man that spent 10 pages of a thread to buy a 27" lcd tv????? :)

[philwsailz]

this decision from the man that spent 10 pages of a thread to buy a 27" lcd tv????? :)

All of us must agree that right there is funny!

[KRAK]

Oh man. Exile powering Wetsounds? Try it and I think the world will implode. I can't wait to see an Earmark dissertation on why this wont work...

So the world didn't implode, they do work and sound great but the Karma gods did get a little angry with me.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/05/21/esase6aq.jpgWhile drilling the holes in the tower I had my 9 year old daughter holding the shop vac to suck up all the filings. I went to re-position the hose to catch them better and the drill kicked, I dislocated my thumb, dropped the drill and put a nice F#%&ing HOLE in my seat!!!!!

Does Skiers sell the seats individually? It's the cushion between the cooler and the v-drive.
I didn't take pics of the seat cause I was too busy crying.


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[wolfeman131]

they actually sell just the skins, or vinyl, for the seats. Contact Jon in Customer Service with your hull ID number and they can send out the correct one for your boat. Then, take it to a local shop and they can easily swap it out.

Sorry for the misfortune. Darn, 9 yr old girl helpers. :) Bet the 2 of you will laugh about this for years and years to come.

[EarmarkMarine]

At least make the best of the situation and get a handicapped parking pass while your thumb is still in the cast.

[sandm]

as long as this thread has gone south...

while your thumb is healing, it would be best to work on your minimalist ballst surfing so that there is not such a steep ramp to worry about pulling up out of the water :)

[kaneboats]

I burned a hole in my seat with the soldering iron. Still not sure how I did it when I had a protective pad on the seat but it happened. New seat cover was quoted at about $350 or something. I just cut a tiny circle out of the extra material on the bottom of the driver's seat cushion and then cut around the burn hole and glued the little piece in place with rubber cement.

[newty]

At least make the best of the situation and get a handicapped parking pass while your thumb is still in the cast.

I think someone hacked his account!!! Less than 10,000 characters and not a single tech reference!
Something is definitely wrong!!! What should we do?


Sent from my iPhone 5... ya right!

[EarmarkMarine]

Just a momentary lapse. I'm better now.

[newty]

Lol glad to hear your better.

Sent from my iPhone 5... ya right!

[KRAK]

as long as this thread has gone south...

while your thumb is healing, it would be best to work on your minimalist ballst surfing so that there is not such a steep ramp to worry about pulling up out of the water :)

What?


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[EricU]

I don't know why, but I LOVE this thread!!!! Page 5 now!

I cant remember the original question, but I say "Yes"

It's gotta hit 50 posts (hell this is #42)

I now changed my mind and I say "No"

[tgoody14]

What?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

^ right there with ya.... Huh???

[jmvotto]

I got it, less ballast = getting up easier with sore thumb... minimalist surfing

yes, no wait no, wait yes.

gotta love a derail

[tgoody14]

I got it, less ballast = getting up easier with sore thumb... minimalist surfing


I knew I should've stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night...

[wolfeman131]

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af185/dickbragg/Junk/derailed-train-derailed-thread-demo.jpg

[KRAK]

I got it, less ballast = getting up easier with sore thumb... minimalist surfing

yes, no wait no, wait yes.

gotta love a derail

Yup, now that makes sense.

Or, more ballast and start off the swim platform.....


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[E4NASH]

I knew I should've stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night...

LOL

I'll play too...2 more to go

[EricU]

Okay, to try and get this thread back on track and up over 50 posts (though my questions are serious);

Even though I haven’t finished my ’02 Mobius, I picked up another boat (bigger) and have decided (possibly) to go with four (two sets) of Wetsounds Icon8 tower speakers – Not revs because we listen to music on the boat and at 75’ off I am too busy falling hard to listen to music.


If I wire the 4 ohm Icon8s to 2 ohms, would my current Kicker IX500.2 be enough of an amp? Or do I need to go to something like the Wetsounds HT2?

If I do need to go with new amps, I can use my current Kicker amps on our Pontoon boat which needs a full on stereo system.

And one more question;

Would six (three sets) of in-boat Kicker speakers powered by a Kicker IX1000.5 hold up to the WS Icon8s?
Or do I have to buy six more Wetsounds In-boats?



I plan on reusing my 12” JL Audio W6 sub

[sandm]

^ right there with ya.... Huh???

boy, now I feel like an old member. I'd tell ya all to go search minimalist ballast, but it's been deleted :p

now in all seriousness...
I'm running 4 icon8's on my tower and running an arc ks300.2 so should see 350x2 and it powers them just fine.
I also have 6 ws inboats running off an arc 300.4 and don't notice any issues, but I also have a zld to adjust the levels of each. when surfing, we like to run more tower and less inboat so people can chat.

[MLA]

Eric,

The IX500.2 will deliver 250W rms x 2 @ 2 ohm, so each 8" Icon-8 would net 125W. Although the Icon-8 will handle more power, 125W to an 8" coaxial is good solid power, especially when there will be 2 pair. If buying the speakers and amp as a package, the HT2 would top of the list as an amp, but since you already have the IX500.2, rock it.

The IX1000.5 will do perfect with your 3 pairs of in-boats.

[philwsailz]

Eric,

The IX500.2 will deliver 250W rms x 2 @ 2 ohm, so each 8" Icon-8 would net 125W. Although the Icon-8 will handle more power, 125W to an 8" coaxial is good solid power, especially when there will be 2 pair. If buying the speakers and amp as a package, the HT2 would top of the list as an amp, but since you already have the IX500.2, rock it.

The IX1000.5 will do perfect with your 3 pairs of in-boats.

KXM is now shipping too.... FYI

800.5
400.4
400.2

[EricU]

KXM is now shipping too.... FYI

800.5
400.4
400.2

Aren't the KVMs A/B style amps?

[EarmarkMarine]

Eric,
I usually view the in-boat zone with subwoofer as one and independent of the tower zone. As long as the sub and in-boat satellites are well balanced with their respective power then you're good. Oftentimes there is so much indirect radiation coming of the tower that many will want to back off on the in-boats a bit, especially in consideration that on a Moomba/Supra all four cockpit speakers are behind the driver and more in the face of the rear occupants.

David

[philwsailz]

Aren't the KVMs A/B style amps?



Nope! Brand new. Full-range Class-D power. Run longer, run cooler with an amp that is literally half the size of the predecessors...

Super efficient Boost Converter technology is in the power supplies; the power supply itself is better than 90% efficient and the amps are better than 85% efficient at full power....

Here is a link to a review of the automotive version of the 5-channel amp, the KX800.5 from PERFORMANCE AUTO & SOUND: http://www.pasmag.com/car-audio/reports/3038-kicker-kx8005-amplifier

We borrowed some parts and technology from the car side of the house on two models, the KXM800.5 and KXM400.4 and created a brand new model for the marine markets with the high-power KXM400.2.

The KXM400.2 is basically a purpose-built tower amplifier. It is the ideal amp for a KMT60 installation.

The KXM400.4 is a good in-boat amp for guys who want to power up their in-boat speakers, but either run without a sub, or use a higher power mono amp on the subs. It is also the perfect amp to run bridged into a set of the KM6500.2 HLCD components.

The KXM800.5 is the perfect in-boat coaxes plus subwoofer(s) amplifier.

All three feature full-range Class D power, a smaller foot print, conformal coated circuit boards, ABYC-compliant power terminals, gasket-sealed front covers, stainless mounting hardware, UV protected heat sink finish, and blue illumination to match our LED-eqipped speakers.

The preamp sections are analog-controlled, (meaning easy to use knobs) but digital in function. This allows us to add feathers like a viariable HI-PASS filter for the subwoofer section of the KXM800.5, which allows you to throw away sub-sonic energy that your subs will not play, improving subwoofer performance in open-air and "free-air" installations.

The preamp design also allows us to make one of the full-range sections have both high pass and low pass filters on the KXM400.4 and KXM800.5, in case you want to use extra midbass drivers to add warmth to the frequency response range usually too low for a coax, but too high for a good subwoofer...

Sorry, I gave you the long answer but I hope it helps. PLUS it adds to the post count in ths thread.... :D

Phil
Kicker

[EricU]

Phil,

Thanks for the info, Looks like there is another option (great!)

Do you know when these amps will be shipping (this will be a big part of the decision) and where can I get info on the other amps?

Not sure I want to (dare to?) ask about a comparison of these new Kickers vs. the Wetsounds HT series


I can hear the zipper starting now and my checkbook getting lighter!!!!!

[philwsailz]

Phil,

Thanks for the info, Looks like there is another option (great!)

Do you know when these amps will be shipping (this will be a big part of the decision) and where can I get info on the other amps?

Not sure I want to (dare to?) ask about a comparison of these new Kickers vs. the Wetsounds HT series


I can hear the zipper starting now and my checkbook getting lighter!!!!!



See above. They are shipping now.

Comparison? Can that be done with a simple yes or no?

I will tell you they are way different: Wetsonds ship out of Texas, and Kicker ships out of Oklahoma.... Hope that helps with any decision.... Tim will probably tell you the same thing.... :D

I need to add that I am totally joking.... Tim and I are competitors, but we get along great and hang out sometimes when we are both at the same shows together. It would be inapproptiate for me to go stating comparisons between the two products. That would not be fair to Tim and it would put me in a bad position as a forum contributor. It is for that fact I replied with my tongue-in-cheek resonse regarding the shipping locations....

Hope that clarification of my comment removes any mis-read of my post....

Phil
Kicker

[EarmarkMarine]

Well I can certianly state my opinion and preference between the two amplifiers.
My favorite between the two is the one that we are installing in a boat today.

[EarmarkMarine]

Before anyone asks which amplifier we are installing today, its any given boat on any given day.

[EricU]

Can that be done with a simple yes or no?

With over 50 posts on a simple yes or no...Hell Yes it can!




I will tell you they are way different: Wetsonds ship out of Texas, and Kicker ships out of Oklahoma.... Hope that helps with any decision...

Now that DOES help, my boys names are Austin and Dallas.. So done... Wait! My friend's kid is going to school in Oklahoma and I grew up in Oakland...So now..???

Maybe it will come down to price, I figure this will end up being #$@% (a lot!) and apparently I HAVE to get LEDs now (effing kids!)

Maybe there are some T-shirts thrown in...

I need to stay off the internet!

[zabooda]

I'm going out on a limb here but the answer to all of the questions is: yes, yes, maybe and no way.

[beat taco]

So the new KX has built in led's? Where's the pics of it lit up? Sweet looking little amps!

[philwsailz]

So the new KX has built in led's? Where's the pics of it lit up? Sweet looking little amps!

Actually the KXM amps feature a glowing blue light pipe. just above the logo.

[philwsailz]

Here is a fuzzy cell phone pic I just took17278

[wolfeman131]

HEL-FRIGGIN-LO that's a nice looking piece of equipment.

[sandm]

very clean front. I like the blue light for ease of seeing if the system is powering up.
would be cool if it would change to red when in a protect, short or possibly when battery/supply voltage drops below a threshhold. another use for led's in a boat :)

[MLA]

Here is a fuzzy cell phone pic I just took17278

Those arent the only things new this season with LEDs

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x101/chpthril/IMG_3892_zps367c96b6.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/user/chpthril/media/IMG_3892_zps367c96b6.jpg.html)
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x101/chpthril/IMG_3891_zps499ccc83.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/user/chpthril/media/IMG_3891_zps499ccc83.jpg.html)