Tower Speakers & Subwoofer upgrade [Archive]

OutbackV2008

02-03-2013, 04:27 PM

OK, so I've procrastinated quite a bit and now I'm finally getting the motivation to get started on my winter upgrades.
I have a 2008 Outback V with the stock stereo. I need to add a woofer and tower speakers, plus the amps to accompany them. Based on what I've seen on the forum thus far, I'm going to try to keep my budget to $2k for the whole upgrade.I've got the capabilities to do the install as well as build the sub box myself. I'd also like to make sure that anyone wakeboarding/tubing can hear the tower speakers.

My thoughts:
- Tower Speaker: I'm up in the air between Wetsounds and Bullet Audio, however I have no idea what grade to go with. Any advice to keep the price down but still get horns? Also, any advice for chrome or painted pods?
- Subwoofer: I'd like to fit a 12" over a 10". Brand totally undecided.
- Subwoofer Location: I'm hoping to get creative, and keep some foot space while putting it under the driver's foot well. I'd also like to create a through hole for the foot heater...just because it would be amazing and I haven't seen it yet.
-Amplifiers: Undecided. Need Advice for wattage and affordable/reliable brand.
- Battery upgrade: Is this required? Am I going to need to upgrade both batteries or can I do one?
- Other electrical: I'd like to add a switch to prevent the audio specific battery from dying but I'm not sure what this entails or what to get.

Any pictures or links to existing posts with pictures would be great.
Thanks in advance for all the help.

ian ashton

02-03-2013, 04:39 PM

Don't forget about Exile - I'd contact [email protected] to get his recommendations. They've ha some great sales recently and have been brooming overstock stuff.

moombadaze

02-03-2013, 06:34 PM

another vote for getting in touch with Brian at Exile, im on my second system and very happy with it.

only advice, do it all at once if at all possible, it sucks to be redoing when you add on

EarmarkMarine

02-03-2013, 07:48 PM

Outback,
For amplifiers go with Class D, or at least Class H, to get a big efficiency advantage. Amplifiers that pull less current to deliver the same power, better preserve voltage levels. Higher/lower supply voltage levels directly impact the amplifier output power. You want to avoid this negative cycle because a typical amplifier will lose 25 percent of its power when the supply voltage drops from 14.4 to 12.6 volts, for example, and continues to fall in power as the voltage drops farther. Once you make your speaker selections, that will decide the required amplifier power and configuration.
With a subwoofer, in order to get the best results, the boat will dictate the subwoofer location and in turn the maximim enclosure size. This in turn, should determine the enclosure loading type (sealed, ported, etc.) and the most ideal driver size to match up with the enclosure. Your best results will come from following this formula in sequence.
For tower speakers, if you expect any degree of distinctive sound at wake range, you will need maximum surface area, maximum pod displacement and an HLCD speaker. Stay away from smallish HLCDs as they are too bright for enjoyable SQ near field.

David

wolfeman131

02-03-2013, 08:22 PM

- Tower Speaker: I'm up in the air between Wetsounds and Bullet Audio,

-Amplifiers: Undecided. Need Advice for wattage and affordable/reliable brand.

Any pictures or links to existing posts with pictures would be great.
Thanks in advance for all the help.

I don't think there is much comparison between the two you have listed. Go Wetsounds all the way. For amps, Kicker has Class D amps that will meet your requirements.

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/cat_f123-232_m23_i182_kicker-marine-amplifiers-amplifier-class-d.html

There are a ton of pics in the audio & electrical section. Search uthreads for sub box enclosures/location. There have been a ton of creative ideas.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

EarmarkMarine

02-03-2013, 08:38 PM

Drew,
The referenced Kicker amplifier is a hybrid with Class D on the lowpass only and Class AB on the highpass four channels.
However, Kicker, JL Audio, Alpine, Kenwood Exelon, Wetsounds and many others do have multi-channel amplifiers that are completely Class D.

David

jfox8807

02-03-2013, 08:44 PM

Rockford amps are class d I love them that's what I have in my boat and I'd say deff wet sounds all the way

sandm

02-04-2013, 11:33 AM

my .02 having now owned bullet and wetsounds. granted I now have icon8's and the bullets were hollowpoint 6.5's and not really an apples comparison, but comparing quality of components, wetsounds all the way. I did audition several wetsounds hlcd's before settling on the icons(went this route as all we do is surf so 80ft was not a concern) and the wetsounds blew my bullets away..

can't speak to the amp issue yet. I had an all rockford amp setup in my last boat, but it was all class a/b stuff(power series). it performed well and with 2 stereo batteries, I never had an issue with draining them both. I now have arc audio stuff that's not class a/b in this boat and can't wait to spend a full day on the lake and see how it performs. initial impressions from sitting in the garage enjoying the tunes are WOW!!

my personal opinion on subs are jl all the way. I'm on my second 12w6 in a boat and it flat out pounds. I know there are a couple others on here that have this same sub as well.
good luck.

jfox8807

02-07-2013, 05:45 AM

I put re audio subs in my boat and they flat out pound. Was able to use 2 10's and use a ported box and fit it under the helm with out noticeable foot room loss and was able to maintain the factory cup holder awesome. I had it cranked the other day came in it made stuff fall outta tha dish drain in tha house. It's powered off a Rockford Fosgate 1200/1 marine amplifier http://www.facebook.com/jay.a.fox/posts/140529702774523?ref=notif&notif_t=like check it out

pprior

02-07-2013, 03:49 PM

Would like to check it out but believe it or not some of us old fogies have never signed up for Facebook, so I can't see the link above.

jfox8807

02-07-2013, 08:13 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQ4Gr541q0U&feature=youtube_gdata_player

try this out see iff it works

pprior

02-07-2013, 08:20 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQ4Gr541q0U&feature=youtube_gdata_player

try this out see iff it works

says "sorry this link is private" :-?

jfox8807

02-08-2013, 02:52 AM

Ok sorry I fixed it now. Idk how I made it private maybe it'll work this time for u lol.

pprior

02-08-2013, 11:51 AM

Ok sorry I fixed it now. Idk how I made it private maybe it'll work this time for u lol.

Yes, that link works now. I've never owned any subs other than home theater stuff (have a couple 15" velodynes in my HT) but man is that level of cone displacement normal??? That looks like it's going to self destruct!

EarmarkMarine

02-08-2013, 12:32 PM

Sure, if a woofer is constructed with multiple spiders, an over-roll surround and a really long voice coil, it can safely exhibit that type of excursion. Now, that doesn't mean there is much control or pitch accuracy when driven like that. And the finer transients are definitely lost in the modulation. But it certainly looks impressive and moves some air on a synthetic bass burp.

David

jmvotto

02-08-2013, 10:28 PM

My vote for exile.... But I am biased as that's all I own.

OutbackV2008

02-09-2013, 01:02 PM

Don't forget about Exile - I'd contact [email protected] to get his recommendations. They've ha some great sales recently and have been brooming overstock stuff.

Ian - Through an odd series of tags & likes on Facebook via Cass Lake Dry Dock's website, I'm darn near positive that you have the slip next to me. Awesome to see people local to Southeast Michigan showing support! Can't wait to see the 2013 OBV if you're going to keep it at the marina!

OutbackV2008

02-09-2013, 01:06 PM

Thanks to everybody for the support!
- Does anybody have any recommendation for a minimum wattage to put through the tower speakers?
- Is there an off-the-shelf solution for a quick connect where I pull the speaker wire through the hull & into the tower?
- sandm: How much wattage are your running through the 12w6?

EarmarkMarine

02-09-2013, 01:28 PM

We've experienced just about every combination and the 12W6 loves the JL Audio HD750/1! JL subs are conservatively rated on their thermal capacity. In an open field environment it's a good idea to fully meet or marginally exceed the thermal rating.
An 'honestly rated' unregulated 1000 watt amplifier (@14.4 volts supply) may only deliver 750 watts with a 12.6 volts supply. 14.4 volts isn't realistic. 13.7 V may be measured as the alternator/battery combined voltage at 3K rpm. 12.6 volts is more realistic measured at the amplifier primary terminals when under load.
The strictly regulated HD750/1 is 750 watts guaranteed at any voltage above 11 volts.
And with the higher efficiency of this Class D amplifier, the supply voltage will sag less at the same power level. That is a bonus to the entire audio system and charging system.

David

MLA

02-09-2013, 01:29 PM

OutbackV2008

02-09-2013, 03:00 PM

1) depends on the speaker size and type.

2) Yes. There are some in-line connectors or surface-mount male/female connector bodies that allow for disconnection of the tower speaker leads in order to fold the tower.

MORE QUESTIONS:
- Because I'm putting the subwoofer in, can I get away with a smaller tower speaker?
- In order to get good sound do I need to step it up to an iCON 8/10 in the Wetsounds or can I get away with a Pro80 to save some $?
- Does anybody have a thought on the Wetsounds Pro80 vs. the Exile XM7?
- How are people mounting their amp racks in this hull?

Again - thanks to everybody for the support!!!

EarmarkMarine

02-09-2013, 03:42 PM

"- Does anybody have a thought on the Wetsounds Pro80 vs. the Exile XM7?"

Well, you can't compare the two different sizes, even if it's from the same brand. The Exile XM7 is a 6.5" HLCD with a fraction of the pod displacement while the Wetsounds Pro80 is an 8" HLCD (the size of an XM9) with considerably more pod displacement.
The Exile XM7 was head to head with the now discontinued Wetsounds Pro60 with the same speaker size and similar pod displacement.

Nothing will touch the Wetsounds Pro80 for the dollar (brand new for $699) in ampitude or projection power. The Wetsounds Icon8, Rev8 and Rev10 will provide stronger sound quality than the Pro80 for near field listening as they have a bit tamer response. But frankly, you will not see a SQ difference at the end of a rope in the face of all the noise competition. At wake range, your only priority is cutting through with enough amplitude to hear a degree of articulation.

Adding a subwoofer to the in-boat zone has very little impact on the tower. The sub's bass will not project to wake range. The two speakers (sub and tower) play different bandwidths with little overlap.

Amp mounting techniques will differ based on the scope of amplifiers and distribution products mounted to the panel. With a multi-component amp panel, most build a new panel and mount the panel to the existing provisions.

David

MLA

02-09-2013, 04:04 PM

Pro-80 v's xm7: the Pro-80 in an 8" HLCD where as the xm7 is a 6.5" Sizi matters in terms our output at wake range and mid-bass contribution when listening near-field. Both can and will be loud at 80ft, but when close in, the smaller speaker will be harsh on the ears. This is not brand specific, this is about size. Wet Sounds discontinued their 6.5" HLCD for this reason.

I do not like to rely on a sub to ballance out a smaller tower mounted speaker, especially a small HLCD. The aggressive horn is still going to be dominant once you are outside of the boat.

The Icon only comes in an 8" and is geared more toward near-field listen. if your primary goal is surfing and party-cove listening, the Icon-8 is the better choice. If your primary focus is reaching your wake-board rider, then an HLCD is the route you go. The larger HLCD, like the Pro-80 will be a better near-field balance then a smaller HLCD. So your goals are important.

jfox8807

02-10-2013, 11:07 PM

Yes, that link works now. I've never owned any subs other than home theater stuff (have a couple 15" velodynes in my HT) but man is that level of cone displacement normal??? That looks like it's going to self destruct!

Oh yes it's normal with clean power and plenty of it I did turn my subsonic filter up just a hair more after this video they would fluter a little on some songs trying to play really low notes they would do them and not bottom out but they couldnt really produce any real volume hope ya liked tha vid

jfox8807

02-10-2013, 11:45 PM

MORE QUESTIONS:
- Because I'm putting the subwoofer in, can I get away with a smaller tower speaker?
- In order to get good sound do I need to step it up to an iCON 8/10 in the Wetsounds or can I get away with a Pro80 to save some $?
- Does anybody have a thought on the Wetsounds Pro80 vs. the Exile XM7?
- How are people mounting their amp racks in this hull?

Again - thanks to everybody for the support!!!

The sub won't help the effectiveness of ur tower speakers. How ever this past summer my sub went out and it killed the amount of sound that reached me a 80ft . I was using two pair of pro60's . I mean u couldn't hear the sub back there but I think the sub was kind of canceling out so of the engine noise IMO. I could be wrong but that's what I'm guessing.

The type of tower speaker u need depends mostly on what ur after. I didn't like my pro 60's they where way to bright and didn't carry out as affectively to 80 ft. This winter I upgraded to 2 pair of rev10's and its way better sound not as overly bright great mid bass punch anuff so that u can fill the beat in ur chest if ur standing right next to them. So if ur going tobe wake boarding then I'd say go with a bigger unit like the pro 80 , rev 8 ,or rev10 if ur a surfer party cover type I think the icon would be a better sound for that. I can comment on exile vs wet sounds I have never owned exile tower speakers but I have had nothing go wrong with my wet sounds gear and I love there products.

OutbackV2008

02-13-2013, 10:48 PM

jfox8807

02-14-2013, 02:24 AM

I really like my Rockford marine amps. a 600/4 would do a pair of pro 80's real good and get max potential out of them. Those arc audio amps are suppose to do real good as well I believe sandman did his setup with them and I think mla is a dealer with arc might hit him up. The jl audio amps are nice but pricey. I'd say the Rockford would be the cheapest then arc then jl.

EarmarkMarine

02-14-2013, 10:03 AM

As always thanks for the fast and concise feedback.

In reality my priority is a speaker that will sound good at boarding range as well as surfing range. I'd like to keep the cost reasonable as well.

From what I can see I'm really leaning towards the the Pro80...even though the cost is not exactly reasonable.
Any thoughts on appropriate amplifier to get loud enough for anyone at boarding range to hear?

The Pro80 closeout, available from Wetsounds and all Wetsounds dealers is $699. That is a smokin' value on a brand new 8-inch HLCD.
Here are a couple of amplifier suggestions.
A JL Audio XD400/4 bridged. PasMag tested the XD500/3 as it delivered 673 total watts, which is an indication of the conservative ratings. With the XD400/4 you can expect an actual 280 watts X 2 bridged into a 4-ohm load at 14.4 volts at 1%. Very nice power for a pair of Pro80s. Plus, you will get the highest operating efficiency available and a built-in port for a dedicated zone control.
The Arc Audio KS300.4 bridged will do a very nice job. Because this amplifier is internally fan-cooled, and moist air will be constantly flowing over a naked circuit board, I would suggest spending a pinch more on the Wetsounds Syn4 (similar platform) because of the conformal coating. The Syn4 is at the top end of the Pro80 power handling so you would have to be disciplined in your usage as the day grows long and you become decidedly less sensitive.

David

jmvotto

02-14-2013, 10:06 AM

Watch the weight on the OBV toward with boards, speakers etc, its only 1 5/8

motosno963

02-18-2013, 10:56 PM

so since i do the wakeboard and party cove im thinking pro80's for distance and what should i do for cove since its just a line of a few of us and and the beach..we mostly stand anywhere from 10ft to about 50ft from the back of the boat

rdlangston13

02-19-2013, 12:45 AM

Watch the weight on the OBV toward with boards, speakers etc, its only 1 5/8

i think if it is strong enough to attach a rope to and drag someone across the water with then it should be fine holding up some speakers....

bergermaister

02-19-2013, 01:20 AM

^^ What he said. 1-5/8" tower is stronger than you might think...

http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k414/grberglund/MoombaMobiusV/P1080020.jpg

Brianinpdx

02-19-2013, 02:21 AM

Berg - that water is glass and they are hanging out. underway that 1.58 turns into a spaghetti noodle. Trust me, weight is an issue. Just think what happens when they cross a few wakes?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EXRhzLwQl0

(god I think I watched this video 5 times) hehe

brian

bergermaister

02-19-2013, 02:39 AM

hehe - love the slow mo in that vid.

I'm more concerned about a mounting bolt getting sheered off (mine are horizontal) than the 1.58 noodling. My kids regularly treat the tower like a jungle gym in the driveway when I turn my back so I figure if it can hold up to them then a few sets of speakers can't be heavier. Of course the kids are not usually hanging back there when we cut across any wakes.

Yeah - it was one of those glass all day days. Had to stop and jump off the big observation tower thing out in the middle a few times.

You think this may be getting too heavy for the 1.58? Maybe after you load the racks up with boards...

http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k414/grberglund/MoombaMobiusV/Moomb-big-stereo.jpg

Brianinpdx

02-19-2013, 02:45 AM

berg - yea, I hear ya. true true. god I just saw that video link you posted in that proshop sale. I'm still laughing.

rdlangston13

02-19-2013, 12:41 PM

I'm sure the towers have a certain amount of flex built into them. He'll my LSV tower which is 2 3/8 flexes some when pulling the boat on the trailer with nothing hanging from it. Even sky scrapers sway...

Sent from my iPhone

OutbackV2008

02-25-2013, 10:23 PM

FINAL DECISION:
- I bought the Wetsounds Pro-80 the deal was just too sweet.

Subwoofer:
- I'm heavily leaning toward the Kicker Solo-Baric S12L74
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_11346_Kicker-Solo-Baric-S12L74-08S12L74.html

Amplifier:
- I'd like to go ahead and get a single 3 or 5 channel amp to use to power everything. Hopefully with an efficient single channel I can draw less power, and save a minimal amount of money not wiring up multiple new amps.
- Does anybody have a recommended amount of power for the tower speakers? I certainly don't want to under power them.
- Any reccomendations similar to this in wattage?
http://www.techronics.com/caraudio_10079_JL-Audio-MHD900-5-900W-5-Channel-Class-D-HD-Series-Marine-System-Amplifier.html?gclid=CK3bvrb00rUCFYqk4AodLTsAXg

OutbackV2008

01-22-2014, 11:20 PM

I've uploaded photos in an album that show the entire project. One problem...how do I insert photos into this thread ( I feel like an idiot)?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

hsvazz

01-23-2014, 06:48 AM

When you click reply there is a button "Go Advanced", click that and then below the text entry window there is a button called "Manage Attachments". Click on "Manage Attachments" and it will bring up another window that allows you to add files. Click on the "Add Files" button and then click on the "Select Files" button, that will then allow you to select files from your computer.

Then drag the photo you just added to the bottom Attachments window and then you should be able to click done and it should include it in your post. That was how I was able to do it when I first posted a pic a few days ago.

I hope that helps.

Regards,
Azz.

2014 Moomba Outback V