Relocate and New Ballast Switches

[EricU]

So I am redoing the interior and getting new dash switch covers from the guys at OTRATTW (http://www.otrattw.com/)(took me a while to figure out THAT name)

So I figured that I would also take the time to replace and relocate the rediculous stock placement of the Hippo Ballast Switches up higher were we can


See them
Get to them
Hopefully not leave them on
NOT Fill/Dump the wrong ones



Can I replace the existing 6 switches with 3 switches?
And would they be DPDTs? (Double Pole Double Throw)



Thanks, Eric.

16510165091651116512

[dhyams]

I don't see any reason why you could not replace the 6 with three. You would have three switches that when you flip them upward, fill...downward, drain.

I believe these are DPST (double pole single throw) switches. But I would ask the folks at otrattw to verify.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_pole,_double_throw#Contact_terminology

[bergermaister]

Get 'er done - http://www.wakemakers.com/supra-moomba-ballast-switch.html
They have new label options for the switch covers now too which is nice.

Shouldn't be a problem. You'll have a few extra unused +/- leads but that's about it.
Food for thought...
http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k414/grberglund/MoombaMobiusV/P1070291.jpg

[beat taco]

These build your own switch holders are great too.
http://www.wakemakers.com/ballast-switch-mounting-panel-end.html

[EricU]

These build your own switch holders are great too.
http://www.wakemakers.com/ballast-switch-mounting-panel-end.html

Thanks guys for the tips.

Looks like SC should have hired some of you guys back when my boat was built!

Hope they are putting them in a better place nowadays.


I think that while I am at it, I might add a couple of extra switches for any future upgrades, not sure what for, but while I am whittling away at the fiberglass, I would rather only do it once.


Thanks again, Eric.

[mmandley]

EricU

Yes i would agree you can use the updated new switches. I would how ever take a minute and look how the old ones are wired.

I know the new ones are a daisey chain power and ground system for the main switch power. It also has seperate power from each fuse block for that particular pump.

You might be better off not using any of the old wireing and running new from the fuse panel down to the switches them selves.

This last summer i replaced all my ballast system and upgraded the pumps so i reran all the wires to the switches. The double throw can be a bit intimidating due to the multiple power points and ground each switch uses. It will need power for Foward, Reverse, and the Light in the switch.

In your case your going to need Forward and a seperate reverse if you are using the areator style pumps as you need two pumps to fuill / drain verses the jobsco style pumps.

Hit me up if you get lost or need a hand in what direction to go with it all

[EricU]

...I would how ever take a minute and look how the old ones are wired.

I know the new ones are a daisy chain power and ground system for the main switch power. It also has separate power from each fuse block for that particular pump.

I have no idea as I have not even looked at the existing ballast pump switches, as I kind of just got the idea and what I call the “Zipper Effect” (“while I am here, I might as well change that…”) is kicking in.




You might be better off not using any of the old wiring and running new from the fuse panel down to the switches themselves.

This last summer i replaced all my ballast system and upgraded the pumps so i reran all the wires to the switches. The double throw can be a bit intimidating due to the multiple power points and ground each switch uses. It will need power for Forward, Reverse, and the Light in the switch.

That is what I have been thinking, now I need to figure out:

What I have
What I want
What I might have in the future






In your case you’re going to need Forward and a separate reverse if you are using the aerator style pumps as you need two pumps to fill / drain verses the jobsco style pumps.

I have no idea what pumps I have, I assume they are whatever came with the boat and I have no idea on how they are wired.





Hit me up if you get lost or need a hand in what direction to go with it all

HELP!!!?

Where do I start?
I guess yanking out the existing switch panel?
Can you hear that Zipper!!!




Thanks again, Eric.

[bergermaister]

2002 right? $10 says you have aerator pumps.

Switching over your wiring to new switches should be piece of cake (still). Which means running all new wiring to the pumps is really not necessary if they are all working at the moment. Unless you're looking for ways to tear the skin off your knuckles during the winter months.

[jstenger]

So I am redoing the interior and getting new dash switch covers from the guys at OTRATTW (http://www.otrattw.com/)(took me a while to figure out THAT name)

So I figured that I would also take the time to replace and relocate the rediculous stock placement of the Hippo Ballast Switches up higher were we can


See them
Get to them
Hopefully not leave them on
NOT Fill/Dump the wrong ones



Can I replace the existing 6 switches with 3 switches?
And would they be DPDTs? (Double Pole Double Throw)



Thanks, Eric.

16510165091651116512

If you are using three reversabale pumps, you need three DPDT switches. You will need to bring a (-) lead to the center left and a (+) lead to the center right of each switch. Wakemakers has a wiring diagram for this.

http://media.wakemakers.com/2012/08/wiring-jabsco-puppy-pump-switches/

If you are using six aerator pumps (three fill and three empty), you can use three DPDT switches or three SPDT switches. You only need to bring the (+) lead to the center of the switch. The grounds (-) for all the pumps can go directly to the ground block. And note that you only need to use one side of the DPDT switch in this case.

[NCSUmoomba]

Cool switches. I like the eject seat one.

[EricU]

2002 right? $10 says you have aerator pumps.

Well it seems that what I thought was on ’01 is an ’02 I’m told and I don't know how I messed that up (Don’t get old kids!) and Berge, I owe you $10 as I was able to locate two of my pumps!

One pump is connected right to the front bag in the locker and there is another down in the engine well, it looks like it pulls water from an under boat pick up.





Switching over your wiring to new switches should be piece of cake (still). Which means running all new wiring to the pumps is really not necessary if they are all working at the moment. Unless you're looking for ways to tear the skin off your knuckles during the winter months.

Well, I’m not really looking to add to my list of “to do’s” but I do have some more questions now;


Where are my other pumps?
How do you get to them? Is there some secret hatch under the carpet? Do I need a midget? Should I train a squirrel? (Like that is ever a bad idea)
Am I supposed to have six total (plus a bilge pump)?
Three fills and three dumps?
It looks like I have 500 gph pumps, is it worth changing out to the 1100s ( http://www.wakemakers.com/rule-aerator-short-ballast-pump-1100.html)?



And while I am asking questions;


I found water under my front ballast bag and the boat is inside during our brutal NorCal winter (had to put jeans on today!! UGH!) – What is the best way to get it out?
What is a “Gravity” I or a “Gravity III”?
What is an IBS? (I don’t think you guys are talking about dairy products….)



Thanks again, Eric

165301653116532

[mmandley]

And while I am asking questions;


I found water under my front ballast bag and the boat is inside during our brutal NorCal winter (had to put jeans on today!! UGH!) – What is the best way to get it out?
What is a “Gravity” I or a “Gravity III”?
What is an IBS? (I don’t think you guys are talking about dairy products….)



Thanks again, Eric

165301653116532

Best way to get water out of the under a ballast bag is just remove the bag dry it out. If your refering to the ski locker bag it is holding water due to the bilge area being connected and water sloshes while you tow the boat.

Gavity I or Gravity III is Moomba's way of denoting how many ballast bags came in your system. If you have a Gravity I then it came with 1 bag factory and pumps. Gravity III would mean 3 bag system from the factory.

IBS= Integrated Bow Sac. When you get the V sac for under your bow seats and plumb it in with pumps for filling and draining.

YES in my thoughts replace the 500 with new 700 Tsunami's or 1100 if you can, this only increases fill and lowers wait time on filling and draining.

[moombadaze]

answers

A-dang good question, follow the hoses like you did and you should find them

b-secret hatch-yes at least my 03 did if its a LSV, but it was the whole floor-nothing under there but wires, hoses and a gas tank. mine had 3-4 screws going into the floor sideways from under the side seat bases in the rear, cant remember were else it was screwed down as its been close to 8 yrs since I had that floor up. can be hard to findthem but once removed the floor lifts easily, heavy but easy. really no room under there for pumps tho.

c-thinking so, mostly based off the 6 individual switch's

d-yes, 3 fills/3 dumps-early model year boat would have a very simple system

e-oh heck yes. personally with the arater styles I go the 1200 tsunamis and 1" hose all the way around and keep the hose lengths as short as possible. best bang for the buck I think without going to reversible pumps

1-remove all bags, vacum out all water

2-gravity 1--single front bag, gravity 3--3 bag system

3-IBS= Integrated Bow Sac. V sac for under your bow seats

observation-no hose clamps on the hoses connecting to the bag ?

hope that helps

[EricU]

answers

A-dang good question, follow the hoses like you did and you should find them

b-secret hatch-yes at least my 03 did if its a LSV, but it was the whole floor-nothing under there but wires, hoses and a gas tank. mine had 3-4 screws going into the floor sideways from under the side seat bases in the rear, cant remember were else it was screwed down as its been close to 8 yrs since I had that floor up. can be hard to findthem but once removed the floor lifts easily, heavy but easy. really no room under there for pumps tho.

Great! now more deconstruction!





e-oh heck yes. personally with the arater styles I go the 1200 tsunamis and 1" hose all the way around and keep the hose lengths as short as possible. best bang for the buck I think without going to reversible pumps

Sounds like maybe some more investigating, research and drilling!





...remove all bags, vacum out all water

Sounds a little more work,


Do I remove the bag entirely out of the boat? The only other boat I have had with ballast was my '03 Natique which had hard tanks.
Any thing special in removing them? - Looks pretty simple






...2-gravity 1--single front bag, gravity 3--3 bag system

So I have a "Gravity 3"? as my boat has three sacs.





3-IBS= Integrated Bow Sac. V sac for under your bow seats

Holy @#$* - I'm gonna need one of those! Do they fill/drain off of the ski-locker bag or have their own pump? ie. another switch.[/quote]





observation-no hose clamps on the hoses connecting to the bag?

I better get that floor up![/quote]





hope that helps

Sure does, thanks guys for the help, Eric.

[moombadaze]

Do I remove the bag entirely out of the boat? The only other boat I have had with ballast was my '03 Natique which had hard tanks.
Any thing special in removing them? - Looks pretty simple I remove my bags completly once or twice during the summer and over the winter layup, but its very easy with the flyhigh quick connect fittings. just to let everything dryout under the bags

[EricU]

...but its very easy with the flyhigh quick connect fittings. just to let everything dryout under the bags

So now I NEED;

(6) 1200 tsunamis
1" hose all the way around
Quick Connect fittings
Some hose clamps



That is the "Zipper Effect" sound I hear a lot in my life!

Hopefully when I pull up the carpet, I can easily access the pumps.

***And my projector screen just showed up on a delivery truck!! Another project!!!***

Eric.

[NCSUmoomba]

Back then, they didn't use the "Gravity" ballast system nomenclature. In my manual, it refers to the "Bertha" ballast, and it looks like yours is called the "Hippo". I am not 100% correct, but also back then Skiers Choice was using 1 fill pump for all three sacs, with 3 electric valves (one for each sac) that would open when the pump would come on to send the water to the correct sac. If you have that system, then you would have 4 pumps (1 fill, and 3 empty pumps, one for each sac). The fill pump is probably a 2000gph, and you have discovered that the empty pumps are 500gph. The one down in the bilge would be the fill pump (the one that is not the bilge pump) as it must be below the waterline in order to prime. That pump will feed into a manifold with the three valves in it. These valves will run to the sacs. I am not sure where all the pumps and valves are.

As far as switching out the empty pumps, it would help a bit. Be aware of the sizes of the hoses, because if you get the 1100gph pumps, you will have to redo the hoses too, and the 1100gph pumps are a weird 1 1/8" hose. Your boat should have 3/4" hoses, so a 800gph pump should hook right up without swapping hoses. For the valves, some guys upgrade them to better valves that flow better. (Search for Irritrol Valves on the forum.) It seems that most folks just ditch them. If you do that, you have two options. The 6 aerator pump option (3 fill, 3 empty), or the 3 reversible pump option (on pump for each sac that fills and empties, this is how the new boats are done). The reversible pump option is a little simpler to plumb, but those pumps are for 1” lines, so you will have to redo all the lines, and I think the fastest one is 720gph. New fittings for the sacs would also be required.

[bergermaister]

So now I NEED;

(6) 1200 tsunamis
1" hose all the way around
Quick Connect fittings
Some hose clamps



You know this is the...
"can of worms"
"pandoras box"
etc etc

Maybe time to back up a little and ask
1- what do you REALLY want out of the system
2- how much are you willing to invest into it


1" hose can be used on the funky T-1200's 1-1/8" fittings with a little persuasion and heat. But like NSCU is saying if you have manifolds and valves to deal with you may just want to gut them all and start from scratch like you are thinking with 6 pumps. My old setup had a single Rule 1100 pump with the line T'd to fill both rears, and each rear had it's own drain pump, all wired to the same switch. I didn't have any valves or manifolds - nor front ballast. My new setup has 6 pumps, 3 switches.

There's lots of debate on aerator vs. reversibles. Both are/can be good.

If you decide to go aerator pumps - I'd be happy to share some advice and pics from when I went through a complete install last year.

[EricU]

...Maybe time to back up a little and ask
1- what do you REALLY want out of the system
2- how much are you willing to invest into it


I was thinking the same thing, and since I am redoing the interior and wanting to update the switch covers and relocate/add some switches. I "Zippered" on down this rabbit hole.

What I do know (at least I think I know);

The current set up is painfully slowwwww!!
We have a lot of different level boarders/wake surfers and would like quicker fill/dump times
The pumps aren't that expensive - though it does add up!!





If you decide to go aerator pumps - I'd be happy to share some advice and pics from when I went through a complete install last year.

I think my first step should be to see if I can get to the existing pumps/valves/hoses/connections/trained squirrels/etc. and inventory exactly what I have.

Then go ahead and change everything out as now the "Zipper Effect" has started!!!! Hey, a guy could have worse hobbies!!

Thanks again, Eric.

And the best part is, I will complete everything on this boat, get bored, sell it (probably at a loss) and buy a newer one, and.....there goes the zipper again!

[moombadaze]

ZIPPER EFFECT, been a victim myself manytimes.


just gut the whole stock ballast and start fresh. you will be amazed at the speed increase of going to the larger tsunami 1200 pumps.

[mmandley]

ZIPPER EFFECT, been a victim myself manytimes.
.

I dont believe you Mr 3rd LSV owner....

[EricU]

...just gut the whole stock ballast and start fresh. you will be amazed at the speed increase of going to the larger tsunami 1200 pumps...

That is what I was (Zippppppp!!!!) thinking.



But HOW do you get to these pumps? They sure seem buried, any suggestions?




And are you (Moombadaze) still boarding in Florida?


Eric.

[moombadaze]

I dont believe you Mr 3rd LSV owner....

thats why its the ZIPPER EFFECT and not zipper effect. sometimes it just adds up to a whole new boat :eek:

[mmandley]

thats why its the ZIPPER EFFECT and not zipper effect. sometimes it just adds up to a whole new boat :eek:

You trying to say i got the ZIPPER EFFECT as well? I upgraded the stereo 3xs, upgraded my ballast 3xs, then last year i gutted most of the ballast and redid it.

Now i sold the entire boat and looking for a new bigger one..that i can add a new stereo two and upgrade ballast in? LOL

[EricU]

You trying to say i got the ZIPPER EFFECT as well? I upgraded the stereo 3xs, upgraded my ballast 3xs, then last year i gutted most of the ballast and redid it.

Now i sold the entire boat and looking for a new bigger one..that i can add a new stereo two and upgrade ballast in? LOL


That would be a "ZEPC" (Zipper Effect Poster Child)

[spencerwm]

Now i sold the entire boat and looking for a new bigger one..that i can add a new stereo two and upgrade ballast in? LOL

Are you going to be boat shopping at the AWS evening with the stars? I am stoked to see everything all in one spot. Sticking with a SkiersChoice product, haha? I know you have now spent some time in both the Supra SA and the Moomba Mojo.

It is going to be interesting to see what you end up with. The new 2013 LSV really impressed me and I think you should get Greg to take you out for a demo. With that said the MB and Axis boats are now in the same price range as the LSV and Mojo. You have lots of options. The good news for me is that they all need just a little more ballast.

[wolfeman131]

With that said the MB and Axis boats are now in the same price range as the LSV and Mojo.

Maybe . . . .

Gotta make sure you're comparing "apples-to-apples" as I'm sure Mike will do. MB likes to advertise the price of their boat w/out a trailer. Add in a dual axle and soon you're priced thousands above the LSV. I don't believe that I've ever read about or have seen an Axis with a good surf wave.

[mmandley]

Are you going to be boat shopping at the AWS evening with the stars? I am stoked to see everything all in one spot. Sticking with a SkiersChoice product, haha? I know you have now spent some time in both the Supra SA and the Moomba Mojo.

It is going to be interesting to see what you end up with. The new 2013 LSV really impressed me and I think you should get Greg to take you out for a demo. With that said the MB and Axis boats are now in the same price range as the LSV and Mojo. You have lots of options. The good news for me is that they all need just a little more ballast.

I of course will be at Evening with the Stars,

2013 LSV in my future? No it wont be. I sold mine because i wanted a bigger boat, the 2013 LSV is an impressive boat and i think i would love it but it would be the same hull, and same size as my last one so i dont see a need to upgrade to that.

2013 Mojo i was very impressed with it. Its on the short list for sure.

Axis could be in the running if the prices are right but the Axis is pure Wake Board boat, i have talked to a few people who swear its a legit Surfboat but then i dont think they have been in a Legit Surfboat to compare it too LOL.

MB is on the list, they have some legit surf waves for sure. My biggest concern with it isResale on its weak. Canadians dont know the boat and its really a West Coast Boat company. They really dont have a 22, they have almost, or little over and i am not sure i want to step up to a 23ft boat yet. Mainly because theres not a true 23ft that i really like enough to frop 70+ on right now. Maybe my next boat IDK lol.

Spence if you were at your office once in a while you might have more inside info on my serious choice of boats LOL. Your never there when i drop by on Mondays or Tuesdays LOL. Maybe ill get time to stop by this week if your going to be in. I got some Ballst info, and dirt to drop on your desk to see what you think about it.

Ohh yea, Will i be Buying a boat at Evening with The Stars, possibly but if i did i seriously doubt they will have it on the floor as they only have 2013 LSV in the showrooms. I dont think they even have much 2013 Supra stock except the SA and its always an option but there a few things theirs has or doesnt have that would break the deal pretty easy for me.

Ill stop by we can chat in person, besides need to run some ideas by you for next season LOL

[NCSUmoomba]

Eric, to get to the pumps and all, just start yanking on stuff. If you are going to replace it all, don't worry about damaging the stuff, just don't damage the rest of the boat.

As for the aerator pumps being in expensive, this is true, but by the time you buy twice as many, and all that additional hose, the reversible pumps are almost the same price. The other benefit is the packaging. If you switch to 3 fill pumps, they have to all fit down in the bilge, below the waterline, which is pretty cramped. The reversible ones can be mounted anywhere, and there are less new hoses to run. However, if they run dry, that can burn up, so they either need timers, or close attention paid to them when running.

Also, it looks like you have the old school sacs with the waterbed fittings. I would not even consider keeping those and buy some new Fly-High Pro-X sacs and new style fittings. That in itself would account for some increase is fill times.

[moombadaze]

You trying to say i got the ZIPPER EFFECT as well? I upgraded the stereo 3xs, upgraded my ballast 3xs, then last year i gutted most of the ballast and redid it.

Now i sold the entire boat and looking for a new bigger one..that i can add a new stereo two and upgrade ballast in? LOL

lol, pretty close here. upgraded/redid ballast about 4 times. stereo upgraded 1 time. added on 1 time and redid/cleaned up 1 time. Then New boat.

[EricU]

You know this is the...
"can of worms"
"pandoras box"
etc etc...


...1" hose can be used on the funky T-1200's 1-1/8" fittings with a little persuasion and heat. But like NSCU is saying if you have manifolds and valves to deal with you may just want to gut them all and start from scratch like you are thinking with 6 pumps. My old setup had a single Rule 1100 pump with the line T'd to fill both rears, and each rear had it's own drain pump, all wired to the same switch. I didn't have any valves or manifolds - nor front ballast. My new setup has 6 pumps, 3 switches...


You guys are killing me!

I started by asking about a simple switch move after reading about the OTRATTW custom switches and now I just sent WakeMakers an email asking about getting a whole new system of pumps, lines and bags!!

I feel like I didn't just buy a boat, I joined some kind of cult!!!!

Eric (blurry eyed and credit card out).

[beat taco]

I feel like I didn't just buy a boat, I joined some kind of cult!!!!


That's good stuff!

[bergermaister]

Drink the koolaid.

It's fortified with ballast, stereo, leds, and props.

[EricU]

Drink the koolaid.

It's fortified with ballast, stereo, leds, and props.

Just say NO to LEDs!! There has to be a limit!!

Though I was reading about props this morning......ZZZZZIPPPPP

Eric.

[moombadaze]

I feel like I didn't just buy a boat, I joined some kind of cult!!!!
.

you did. ZZZZZZZZip

[EricU]

Ok, so now....

If I gut my pumps and bags and go with all new stuff and ignoring the price difference....


Reversibles?
or
Aerators




What I don't like reading about the reversibles is;

They dump out of the fill thru-hull - Seems like they will be left on a lot
The impellers burn out easier?
They are slower?


And how do I figure out what bags will fit?

Eric.

[moombadaze]

Ok, so now....

If I gut my pumps and bags and go with all new stuff and ignoring the price difference....

Reversibles?
or
Aerators


What I don't like reading about the reversibles is;
They dump out of the fill thru-hull - Seems like they will be left on a lot
The impellers burn out easier?
They are slower?

And how do I figure out what bags will fit?

Eric.


answers

1) couple one way valves and a couple tee fittings and they can be plumbed to drain out the side's, wakemakers can give some more details on that, put my understanding was it was pretty simple

2) no idea, have not had mine long enough yet, impellers will be a maintence item and need replaced at some point

3) they seem to fill/empty about 100lb per minute


Bag size-- measure the compartment width, height and length and find a bag that close to that size

[bergermaister]

1) I like that idea. Help to keep from burning them up accidentally for sure.

2) I'm sure aerators die eventually too, just haven't experienced it yet.

3) Real world fill time for my T-1200 is about 7.5min for a 1100 surf bag so roughly 145lb per min?

Other thing that swayed me toward aerators over reversibles is power draw. I can run the pumps to drain three bags at once, plus use a 4th handheld pump to drain bags on seats/floor, all while sitting there with no engine running.

Daze- I'm guessing you can run reversibles at the same time too but due to more power draw do you have to have the engine running or have any worries around that?

[mmandley]

Ok, so now....

If I gut my pumps and bags and go with all new stuff and ignoring the price difference....


Reversibles?
or
Aerators




What I don't like reading about the reversibles is;

They dump out of the fill thru-hull - Seems like they will be left on a lot
The impellers burn out easier?
They are slower?


And how do I figure out what bags will fit?

Eric.

1. Even when you drain through the pick up under the boat, the pump has a distictive gargling sound as it becomes empty
2. You only burn the impeller up if you let the pump run a long time dry. You can buy replacement impellers and get the Green kind and have no reall worries.
3. I found on my setup they were very fast with 1inch lines.

I will admit i am more paranoid with the Reversables and pay a lot more attention when draining.
Areators IDK i just hit drain and shut them off when ever i get around to it

As for Power use, Yes the Reversables use about 8xs the power an Areator will use. I had 2 in my boat and never really worried about running the engine while they filled or drained, but i also run 3 batteries.

I know a lot of the newer boats with Reversables actually make you run the boat or the pump wont turn on and off.

[EricU]

Ok, so after spending way too much time trying to figure out what to get so I can update my switches....

Anyway,


Two New Reversible Ballast Pumps for the rear bags
Use the existing Rule plumbed to only the front center locker bag
Change out the front center locker bag dump pump to a new 1100 or 1200 Aerator pump
Five new switches - Three for the bags, one for the amps, one future (possibly a cross-over pump for the rears)
Two new 750 sacs for the rear
Possibly a new bag for the ski locker - all in at this point!



Bryan from WakeMasters sent a link to the WakeMAKERS.com Complete 640GPH Impeller Pump Ballast Kit (Jabsco Ballast Puppy) (http://www.wakemakers.com/kiss-complete-impeller-ballast-package.html) instead of the WakeMAKERS.com Complete 780GPH Impeller Pump Ballast Kit (Johnson Ultra Ballast) (http://www.wakemakers.com/kiss-complete-impeller-780-ballast-package-html.html)


Is one pump better than the other?




Eric.

[beat taco]

1. Only twice all summer. Run dry saved me both times. Still want a red light somewhere on the dash by the gauges to indicate when on. Seems like an easy mod. Your switch location will be better then mine though.
2.Didn't smoke a nitride impeller yet.
3.Yes 90lbs./ minute

Current draw: I drained and filled with 3 puppies and the engine off 90% of the time. I have two batteries.

Daze: would you go rule 3800 or jabsco puppies if you were setting up a boat that's a few years or more old?

[beat taco]

Oops you posted again!

[beat taco]

Okay one vs other: the jabsco has run dry and comes with the hard to destroy green impeller. The Johnson pumps a little more water, people unhappy with Jabsco switched to Johnson and are happy. I haven't had any problems with the Jabsco so I can't speak on that.

[moombadaze]

Daze: would you go rule 3800 or jabsco puppies if you were setting up a boat that's a few years or more old?

not sure which way I would go, couple thoughts on it

I'd think the 3800 would fill all 3 bags at the same rate as 3 tsunami 1200's but you would need a super big pickup thruhull-like 2" or larger?. That single 3800 going into a stock gravity 3 manifold sure could be something to think about and be cheaper than redoing a system over to reversibles. But...

for me , it would be 6 tsunami's 1200's vrs 3 reversibles and after using both. I think for a simple, clean install, ease of use, easier to mount out of the way, the reversibles would win out.

The go big option - 3 3800's. Wicked fast but still would need all the oversized hardware, and this hardware takes up alot of room in a cramped area and the fittings on the bag are going to be a restriction of waterflow. That oversized hardware is super expensive compared to the 3/4" or even 1". But dang, with 3 3800's filling 3 bags the ballast could be full in 3 minutes or so.

[mmandley]

I'd think the 3800 would fill all 3 bags at the same rate as 3 tsunami 1200's but you would need a super big pickup thruhull-like 2" or larger?. That single 3800 going into a stock gravity 3 manifold sure could be something to think about and be cheaper than redoing a system over to reversibles. But...


I think if you tried to run this into the Stock 3 manifold then all you would do is reverse the pumps effect, all that water would be stuck at the small manifold. You would need to find a Manifold of the same diameter and hoses, other wise you would be wasting the 3800s effectiveness.

Your right you would need something like a 2inch hole in the bottom to supply water tot his pump. Sounds big but i had 5 holes in the bottom of Fierah.

1 2inch engine pick up
1 2inch depth/ water temp puck
2 1inch reversable pump pickups
1 1inch Rule factory pump pickup

[EricU]

So does this sound feasable;



Two New Johnson 780 Reversible Ballast Pumps for the rear bags
Apparently the green impellers also fit the Johnson pump, so keep one in the glove box
Use the existing Rule plumbed to only the front center locker bag
Change out the front center locker bag dump pump to a new 1100 or 1200 Aerator pump
Five new switches - Three for the bags, one for the amps, one future (possibly a cross-over pump for the rears)
Two new 750 sacs for the rear
Possibly a new bag for the ski locker - all in at this point!



Bryan from WakeMakers said that the one-way valves and a tee wont work to dump the bags over the side, but unless the pump cant take about a foot and a half of head pressure it should work - and worth trying.


And to put in two new reversible pumps, will I need two new under the boat pickups? -- I don't mind drilling holes in my boats anymore!



Eric.

[mmandley]

Yes the Reversables need there own threw hull pickups under the boat. Some guys i know have used 1 and put a T on it but this will hamper you if you are filling 1 rear bag while draining another, it also wont allow you to drain both bags at the same time.

I went with that thought and put a deddicated threw hull for each bag.

[moombadaze]

all in at this point!

.

so the order is placed ?

sounds like a good plan and yes, drill 2 more holes in the bottom.

[MLA]

Ok, so after spending way too much time trying to figure out what to get so I can update my switches....

Anyway,


Two New Reversible Ballast Pumps for the rear bags
Use the existing Rule plumbed to only the front center locker bag
Change out the front center locker bag dump pump to a new 1100 or 1200 Aerator pump
Five new switches - Three for the bags, one for the amps, one future (possibly a cross-over pump for the rears)
Two new 750 sacs for the rear
Possibly a new bag for the ski locker - all in at this point!



Bryan from WakeMasters sent a link to the WakeMAKERS.com Complete 640GPH Impeller Pump Ballast Kit (Jabsco Ballast Puppy) (http://www.wakemakers.com/kiss-complete-impeller-ballast-package.html) instead of the WakeMAKERS.com Complete 780GPH Impeller Pump Ballast Kit (Johnson Ultra Ballast) (http://www.wakemakers.com/kiss-complete-impeller-780-ballast-package-html.html)


Is one pump better than the other?




Eric.

No. Both are solid pumps. The difference in fill time between the two in a real world setup with a typical ballast sac will be measured in seconds. The Jabsco comes with a pre-wired switch, the Johnson does not. Neither is the wrong choice.

[EricU]

...The Jabsco comes with a pre-wired switch...

Does that mean that the pump has leads off of it?




so the order is placed ?

Not yet, will do it today.




sounds like a good plan and yes, drill 2 more holes in the bottom.

If I am drilling one hole, might as well drill two.

Eric.

[MLA]

Does that mean that the pump has leads off of it?





Not yet, will do it today.




If I am drilling one hole, might as well drill two.

Eric.

The pump has leads about 10" long and the switch has a pre-wired connector with pigtails about 8" long. It does not include an actual wire harness, you still have to run two wires from the switch to the pump and from the switch to your battery source.

[beat taco]

Does that mean that the pump has leads off of it?





Not yet, will do it today.




If I am drilling one hole, might as well drill two.

Eric.

Looks like the WM kit has the switch included.

[EricU]

I thought I would have completed my order from WakeMakers by now, but I haven’t heard from Bryan in a couple of days, so I figure he has;
1. Gone snowboarding
2. Taken off to go see family for Thanksgiving
3. Had a major email server crash
4. Is WAYYY TOOOO busy at work
5. Woke up in jail asking his buddy “Where did this tattoo come from…”
6. Is tired of reading and answering my long winded, incessant email questions presented in bulleted form


But I now know (I think) what I want to do, which is;
A. Use the existing Rule fill pump and switch it to only the front ski locker bag
B. Change out the front ski locker bag dump pump to a 1100 Aerator
C. Add two new Jabsco reversibles for the rear bags

a. Add two new under boat water pickups
D. Add a cross-over pump for the rear bags
E. Change out all three bags for new ones with quick connect fittings
F. Add new switches as I want to get rid of the stock location and change out to the contura style switches and mount them up higher

1. And is there still a discount for being a Moomba forum member? I hope so, as I figure you guys are responsible for me spending the $$$


This is what I think I need to order, could you please help/comment on the items below;

1. Two (2) - Jabsco Reversible Ballast Pump kits for the rear bags
2. One (1) - Jabsco Ballast Puppy Premium Impeller Green (6303-0107) as an extra for the glove box

Use the existing Rule plumbed to only the front center locker bag
3. One (1) - Rule 1100 Aerator pump (short) - This one will be to change out the front ski locker bag dump
4. One (1) - WakeMAKERS.com Exclusive X-Link Quick Switch Ballast System
5. Two (2) 750 sacs for the rear - Fly High Pro X Series Fat Sac
6. One (1) bag for the ski locker - Fly High Pro X Series Tube Sac
7. 3 new switches & covers –

a. Each of the Jabsco pump kits come with a new switch

b. Does the cross-over Kit come with a new switch?


c. I need a new switch for the Aerators that will be for the front ski locker bag – Is this a DPDT?

d. One for the Stereo amps – Is this a SPST?

e. one future - Probably a DPDT

8. Will I need new hose for the now straight shot from my existing rule fill pump to the new center bag?
9. Do the bags (2) 750s & (1) ski locker bag come with quick connects?

Thanks for any help, Eric.

[MLA]

Aerator pump switch: You needed a 3 position latching ON/OFF/ON switch. A DPDT will work fine, but a SPDT is at least needed.
Stereo remote turn-on switch. A simple ON/OFF SPST is all thats needed. If you helm has an unused rocker and it happens to be a DPDT, now sweat, it will work fine, you will just use the center post #2 for your B+, which is probably already hot, and the bottom terminal #3 for the switched output to your head-units red wire.

No, the standard Fly High bags are not packaged at Fly High with any hose fittings included. The standard sacs only include 1 W730 Quick-connect that mates with the W709 pump kit, some W731 Wally Plugs and 1 W749 Air air vent cap.

[mmandley]

As for Bryan at WM he has been working from home and im sure very distracting as hes a New Daddy now. Congratz to him and his Wife.

If you have any trouble getting your order done let me know ill call Spence and push it threw.

Also Yes you still get a Moomba Discount, just remind them and they will add it to the bill.

[EricU]

As for Bryan at WM he has been working from home and im sure very distracting as hes a New Daddy now. Congratz to him and his Wife.

Now that is a reason not to reply!! Congratulations to Bryan at WM!!!




If you have any trouble getting your order done let me know ill call Spence and push it threw.

Also Yes you still get a Moomba Discount, just remind them and they will add it to the bill.


I will call Monday (and ask for Spence?) and order the following;


1. Two (2) - Jabsco Reversible Ballast Pump kits for the rear bags
2. One (1) - Jabsco Ballast Puppy Premium Impeller Green (6303-0107) as an extra for the glove box

Use the existing Rule 1100 fill pump and replumb it to only the front center locker bag

3. One (1) - Rule 1100 Aerator pump (short) - This one will be to change out the front ski locker bag dump
4. One (1) - WakeMAKERS.com Exclusive X-Link Quick Switch Ballast System
5. Two (2) 750 sacs for the rear - Fly High Pro X Series Fat Sac - Yellow
6. One (1) bag for the ski locker - Fly High Pro X Series Tube Sac - Yellow
7. 3 new switches & covers –

a. Each of the Jabsco pump kits comes with a new switch and cover – I will ask for one cover marked “Left Ballast” and one cover marked “Right Ballast”

b. One new switch for the Aerators that will be for the front ski locker bag –SPDT with cover marked “Front Ballast”

c. One switch and cover for the Stereo amps – DPST to kill the amps by relay and kill power to the head unit

d. One future switch and cover - Probably a DPDT
8. (6) Ballast Rocker Switch Mounting Panels
9. 20’ of 1” ballast hose for the now straight shot from my existing Rule fill pump to the new center bag

10. I will ask WakeMakers

a. if I need any additional fittings for the bags, pumps or whatever
b. if the Ballast Cross over system comes with a switch and cover

And after the big brown truck drops everything off at my house, I will wrap it all up and tell my wife that her Christmas presents came early!!! Kind of like the year that I got her a bright shiney new blower and EFI that happen to fit my Schiada that I had at the time!!

Thanks for the help guys. Eric.

[wolfeman131]

List looks good, but don't forget all the hose clamps or, IMO the better option, the crimp tool and crimp bands.

And, why 750's vs 1,100's?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[EricU]

...And, why 750's vs 1,100's?...


Didn't think they would fit in my ol '02

Eric.

[bergermaister]

Doesn't sound like much hose - you reusing what you've got? I believe I put around 80-100ft of the stuff in mine when I did it and used all but about 3ft worth...

[EricU]

Doesn't sound like much hose - you reusing what you've got?...

No, the only thing that I am going to be reusing is the Rule 1100 pump that currently fills all three bags (I think)

All new hoses and clamps (since I haven't found one clamp yet!)

The reversible kits come with 20' each, That would put me at 60' hose not including whatever comes in the cross over kit.

Eric.

[beat taco]

How wide are your rear lockers?

[EricU]

How wide are your rear lockers?

About 24" wide, 48" long and 18" high

Eric

[beat taco]

1100's are 24" wide, you got the bag specs right? 50L x 24W x 24H vs. 50L x 20W x 20H
Not sure how much you surf?
16566
1100 not full, I can pop the hatch if I want! Here comes the reinforce the locker project :)

[EricU]

...Not sure how much you surf?

We just got a wakeskate this last year and can get up on it no problem, can't let go of the rope. From reading the forum, we didn't have the boat loaded correctly and dont even know if we have the correct board!!

Our local boat shop closed down a few years ago when the ol man got cancer and his kids didnt want to take over the business (aggghhh!!!)



...1100 not full, I can pop the hatch if I want! Here comes the reinforce the locker project :)

You guys are.....KILLING ME!!!..... where's the link?????

And do I need to relocate the hydraulic pump for the trim tab? It is just sitting at the back of my driver's side rear locker.

More zipper effect!!! this thing started with the OTHATTW switch covers and me wanting to relocate my switches!!!

Eric.

[beat taco]

This is fun since its November and your money!
My pylon looks like this:
16569
So I didn't need to reinforce the wall. I think Mandley did a write up on reinforcing his.

I surf the port side so I left the hydraulics where they were. In hindsight I felt like I could have easily moved it to the engine compartment, I'm getting plenty of weight on that side so I'm leaving it.
Here's what I did:
16570
Very simple, one screw holds it to a stop I mounted on the side panel. It's carpeted marine plywood.

[beat taco]

I put one on the other side too, obviously closer to the stern
16571

Blurry but you get the idea
16572

[EricU]

This is fun since its November and your money!
My pylon looks like this:
16569
So I didn't need to reinforce the wall. I think Mandley did a write up on reinforcing his.


Can't see the pylon, but is your reinforcement just plywoood?

Pretty easy to figure out the forces as it is just water weight from zero to 18" high (damn it being an engineer!!) Or just bolt in some carpeted plywood!!!




I surf the port side so I left the hydraulics where they were. In hindsight I felt like I could have easily moved it to the engine compartment, I'm getting plenty of weight on that side so I'm leaving it.
Here's what I did:16570Very simple, one screw holds it to a stop I mounted on the side panel. It's carpeted marine plywood.

We will be surfing both sides as we have both goofy (all of my family) and regular foot riders (freaks) and I ride switch

My hydraulic pump is in the same place as yours, you don't have any problems with your 1100 lb bags (zippppp...gotta have em now!, I can't wait til April hit here) hitting the pump? I guess my old bags probably hit it and just didnt notice.

BTW I am going to keep my old bags and use them as extra ballast at places like Bullard's Bar which is "All Glass, All the Time)

Eric.

[beat taco]

The rectangular aluminum tube coming down at 45* supports my pylon, it looks like some boats don't have that setup and have added metal in that area to support the dividing wall. My boat didn't come with any dividers (used :) ) so I did make those out of marine plywood too.
I replaced that hydraulic unit since the one that came in the boat didn't work. It would have been really simple to just move it, I just didn't think to. The bag still works fine in there up against my plywood.
Yes keep the extra bags!

[mmandley]

Looking good guys.

As for the bracing, you will only need to do it if the bags start to Flex your engine side panel. Mine had no bracing, and just a huge open access when you lowered the side panel so thats why i did the bracing. I know on the older boats the V drive isnt quite as deep and the bracing of the engine area changed over the years.

As for the hydraulic pump, as long os you have something covering it it will be fine. I just wouldnt let the bag rest on it.

You will be surprised how much pressure the 750-1100 bags can put on things. I have seen countless items bent or proken in friends boats where it got left in with the bag while filling.

As for you trying to surf, if you used a Wake Skate to surf then yea, unless your 100lbs you cant free rope it LOL. Wake Skates are a different animal all together and have very little boyancy compared to a Surfboard.

[bergermaister]

About 24" wide, 48" long and 18" high

Eric

Go 1100's! They'll fit but not fill quite full. Your compartments are almost identical size to mine only mine are around 44" long and the 1100's still work. Just gotta keep an eye on bunching up on the end when filling sometimes.

[EricU]

Go 1100's! They'll fit but not fill quite full. Your compartments are almost identical size to mine only mine are around 44" long and the 1100's still work. Just gotta keep an eye on bunching up on the end when filling sometimes.

WO-HUUUU!!!

This whole thing started with asking a couple of questions on changing our my switches and relocating them to an area that they would be more user friendly --- and now (ZIPPPPPP!!!) look what I am getting while sipping on my morning Kool-Aid!!! (most you guys are even old enough to know that reference)



1.Two (2) - Jabsco Reversible Ballast Pump kits for the rear bags
2.One (1) - Jabsco Ballast Puppy Premium Impeller Green (6303-0107) as an extra for the glove box

Use the existing Rule 1100 fill pump and re-plumb it to only the front center locker bag

3.One (1) - Rule 1100 Aerator pump (short) - This one will be to change out the front ski locker bag dump
4.One (1) - WakeMAKERS.com X-Link Quick Switch Ballast System
5.Two (2) 1100 sacs for the rear - Fly High Pro X Series Fat Sac - Yellow
6.One (1) bag for the ski locker - Fly High Pro X Series Tube Sac - Yellow
7.3 new switches & covers –

a.Each of the Jabsco pump kits comes with a new switch and cover – I will ask for one cover marked “Left Ballast” and one cover marked “Right Ballast”
b.One new switch for the Aerators that will be for the front ski locker bag –SPDT with cover marked “Front Ballast”
c.One switch and cover for the Stereo amps – DPST to kill the amps by relay and kill power to the head unit
d.One future switch and cover - Probably a DPDT8.(6) Ballast Rocker Switch Mounting Panels
9.20’ of 1” ballast hose for the now straight shot from my existing Rule fill pump to the new center bag

I will ask WakeMakers
1.if I need any additional fittings for the bags, pumps or whatever
2.if the Ballast Cross over system comes with a switch and cover

[bergermaister]

Always here to help (spend all your money) brotha!


I'm wondering on that x-link system you're talking about though.... It requires an extra vent/fill and drain port on each bag from what I understand. So what I'm picturing is that if want to use that in addition to your standard fill/drain pump you will need 2 drain ports on the BOTTOM of the bag whereas most bags just have one drain port on the bottom on one end.

????????

[EricU]

Always here to help (spend all your money) brotha!

Just doing my part to help the economy!!





I'm wondering on that x-link system you're talking about though.... It requires an extra vent/fill and drain port on each bag from what I understand. So what I'm picturing is that if want to use that in addition to your standard fill/drain pump you will need 2 drain ports on the BOTTOM of the bag whereas most bags just have one drain port on the bottom on one end.

????????

I have questions also, that is why I am going to call WM later this morning or early afternoon.

Eric.

[EricU]

And I forgot that I will be also ordering


(6) 1” diameter check valves
(2) 1 1/8” Wye fittings


for my attempt at dumping over the side with reversibles

Eric

[mmandley]

[QUOTE=EricU;199533

I have questions also, that is why I am going to call WM later this morning or early afternoon.

Eric.[/QUOTE]

The X link or Cross over system.

Im actually ging to have it in my new boat.
There are a lot of new bags comming with 2 rear lower drain/fill ports. All you do is connect the 2 bags together with a hose and add a reversable in the middle. No holes, no ports, no vents.

It works by.
1 you fill say Regular with standard ballast pump.
Now you want to switch to Goofy

1 Hit Fill on goofy bag with regular pump
2 Hit drain on Regular bag with regular pump
3 Hit power on the the cross over pump, fill or drain respective to the directrion you want the water to go.
You will essentially be draining the regular bag right into the goofy.

So you drain the regular 2xs and fast while filling the goofy 2xs as fast.

I will be doing a detailed write up with pics, times, and specs as to what you really gain in fill and drain times, cross over fill drain times and all that jaz as my new boat is having 1100s in the rear with a X over system in it.

[EricU]

The X link or Cross over system...
There are a lot of new bags comming with 2 rear lower drain/fill ports. All you do is connect the 2 bags together with a hose and add a reversable in the middle. No holes, no ports, no vents.

"comming" are they available yet? Should I wait to order the bags? What are the next winning Super Lotto numbers (in California)?




It works by.
1 you fill say Regular with standard ballast pump.
Now you want to switch to Goofy

1 Hit Fill on goofy bag with regular pump
2 Hit drain on Regular bag with regular pump
3 Hit power on the the cross over pump, fill or drain respective to the directrion you want the water to go.
You will essentially be draining the regular bag right into the goofy.

So you drain the regular 2xs and fast while filling the goofy 2xs as fast.

When going from Regular to Goofy (aka "the correct way")

why drain the regualar bag?
why not just hit the cross over pump from Regular to Goofy and use the Goofy fill?


And should I be asking for Spence at WM when I call? (this damn work thing keeps getting int the way!!! and now it is their lunch time!!)

Eric.

[mmandley]

"comming" are they available yet? Should I wait to order the bags? What are the next winning Super Lotto numbers (in California)?

When going from Regular to Goofy (aka "the correct way")

why drain the regualar bag?
why not just hit the cross over pump from Regular to Goofy and use the Goofy fill?


And should I be asking for Spence at WM when I call? (this damn work thing keeps getting int the way!!! and now it is their lunch time!!)

Eric.

Yes they have them out already, i say comming because several bag manufactures are doing this now

You hit drain on the Regular and the turn the X pump on because.

you have 1100lbs to fill on goofy
Goofy pump is on so lets say it does 500lbs
X pump is on and adding water at say 500lbs
You still have 500 lbs in the Reg you need drained. This is why you turn on the reg pump to drain.

So in the end the Goofy is Full, and the Reg is empty at the same time. Essentially making your switch over time 1/2 the normal time

[beat taco]

We really need more restrictions on signing up like the do on planet Nautique, spam topics are one thing but in threads? Getting bad!

[jpetty3023]

We really need more restrictions on signing up like the do on planet Nautique, spam topics are one thing but in threads? Getting bad!

no doubt!! so Mike, have you picked out a boat. you know I open the forum everyday and after reading thru the 400 spam posts eagerly search for your "My New Boat" thread


sent from my home phone

[MLA]

Always here to help (spend all your money) brotha!


I'm wondering on that x-link system you're talking about though.... It requires an extra vent/fill and drain port on each bag from what I understand. So what I'm picturing is that if want to use that in addition to your standard fill/drain pump you will need 2 drain ports on the BOTTOM of the bag whereas most bags just have one drain port on the bottom on one end.

????????

Adding the extra ports is easy.

[jmvotto]

Not sure how the x link could help fill the opposite bag when the source bag is empty? It would suck all air and doubt it will pull through the port pump.

[mmandley]

Not sure how the x link could help fill the opposite bag when the source bag is empty? It would suck all air and doubt it will pull through the port pump.

Your not understanding how it works.

you have 1100 in the Regular bag ALL ready filled.

Now your Goofy Buddies want to Surf

You start filling Goofy
You drain Reg
At the same time the Reg is draining its also Being drained by the Cross pump and it fill what its draining from the Reg bag into the Goofy bag

It allows you to Switch from Reg to goofy very fast, or Goofy to Reg very fast.
You still only have 1 fill for each 1100 from under the boat.
You also still only have 1 drain for each bag under the boat, These are the same as you would have with a standard fill drain system.

The Cross over pump only helps you switch from 1 side to the other

You have 2 pumps to do the switch.

[KRAK]

Adding the extra ports is easy.

Do you have a step by step procedure for this? On a 1100# bag I really don't want it to leak!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bergermaister]

You still only have 1 fill for each 1100 from under the boat. True, but if you are starting from empty, and are REALLY impatient, I'm guessing you could run both pumps to fill both bags at the same time, and then also switch on the x-over pump to suck out of port and into the starboard side. (or vice versa)

As long as you let the bag get a little headstart in filling before you start doing the transfer I bet it would work.

Fill the surf side twice as fast? Hmmm. :eek:

[MLA]

Do you have a step by step procedure for this? On a 1100# bag I really don't want it to leak!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have it outlined on the Tigeowner's site, but you will need to create an account to view the pics. Let me see if I can just copy/past the test and pic URL's over to here and re-post.

[jmvotto]

Your not understanding how it works.

you have 1100 in the Regular bag ALL ready filled.

Now your Goofy Buddies want to Surf

You start filling Goofy
You drain Reg
At the same time the Reg is draining its also Being drained by the Cross pump and it fill what its draining from the Reg bag into the Goofy bag

It allows you to Switch from Reg to goofy very fast, or Goofy to Reg very fast.
You still only have 1 fill for each 1100 from under the boat.
You also still only have 1 drain for each bag under the boat, These are the same as you would have with a standard fill drain system.

The Cross over pump only helps you switch from 1 side to the other

You have 2 pumps to do the switch.

Mike I understand the cross fill application, I thought somewhere in this thread it was being promoted to fill the goofy side faster from ground zero ballast. Berg may have something there fill and transfer at the same time... Hmmmmm..

[jmvotto]

I have it outlined on the Tigeowner's site, but you will need to create an account to view the pics. Let me see if I can just copy/past the test and pic URL's over to here and re-post.

I believe this is MLA authorship , but I have done one and it's easy peasy.

https://forum.moomba.com/showthread.php?14056-Adding-a-vent-to-a-two-port-ballat-bag&highlight=vent

[mmandley]

Mike I understand the cross fill application, I thought somewhere in this thread it was being promoted to fill the goofy side faster from ground zero ballast. Berg may have something there fill and transfer at the same time... Hmmmmm..

Ohh ok, no i wasnt trying to promote one side vs another LOL.

Yes Berg is correct on what his idea is and yes it would work. I wasnt going to bring that up till i could have a better descrition on it when i do real world testing. You can bet thats how ill be doing it LOL.

[MLA]

I believe this is MLA authorship , but I have done one and it's easy peasy.

https://forum.moomba.com/showthread.php?14056-Adding-a-vent-to-a-two-port-ballat-bag&highlight=vent

Yep, thats it in a nutshell. Forgot I had posted that here.....March seems like forever ago!

Well that's cool to see you own work getting passed around the internet

This works great when a standard sac doesn't have enough fittings, such as if you wanted to do a dual-pump system or if the sac's ports just aren't in the best spot for your application once the sac is in an filled.

The Flow-Rite fittings come in both .75 and 1 inch 90* elbow and straight. Its an easy mod that can be done to any ballast sac, but there are a couple of tricks I have learned with the more I've done.

Adhesive: Rubber cement. Anything that's silicone based will stay pliable and can allow the fitting to slip under load.

Hole size: Round and I tend to find it requires about .125" dia larger then the dia of the threaded portion of the fitting for the flange to fit through.

Having the sac at room temp, or even warmed a little with a hair drier or heatgun on low. This helps to allow the sac to stretch so flange will slip through. I always test fit before applying the adhesive.

I like to inflate the sac while working on it. Some air will escape once the hole is cut, but it still make working easier then when done on a flat sac.

Use a small but sharp razor knife.

When you are ready to install the fitting, lay both the fitting and the flanged nut clamping surface up. Apply the cement to both. Slip the fitting into the hole. While holding it with one hand at the threads, drop the nut over the end of the fitting and start the threads a couple turns. Now move your hand to the end of the fitting and finish threading the nut down until it seats. Turn it hand tight then finish with a pair of slip-joint pliers and turn an additional 1/8 turn.

Top the sac off with air, cap the fitting with tape, then let it set to allow the cement to cure.

Let em know if any one has a specific question.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x101/chpthril/011-9.jpg

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x101/chpthril/013-6.jpg

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x101/chpthril/014-5.jpg

[Ripper]

Hi guys,
I'm new to this forum and have a 2002 Mobius V with the Hippo ballast system. It has the single fill pump connected to the manifold and solenoid valves which I'll be removing. Also the 3 separate drain pumps. I'm changing out the sacs and will be using the 1100's in the rear lockers. I'm also considering using the 1100 gravity games centre sac in the forward ski locker. I have Tsunami 1100 pump hooked up to the original thru hull and would like to use it just for filling the front bag. My plan is to then buy two more 1100's to fill the rear bags and I'm considering putting in separate thru hulls for each of these. I have a few questions regarding the parts and installation.

1) Can you get the rear bags with two drains in case I want to install a cross over system later?
2) Can you use the existing 6 switches on the new set up?
3) I thinking of keeping the existing drain pumps which are all Johnson 750's so I assume I'll need 3/4" fittings.
4) I presently have two batteries in the port locker and I assume that these should be moved but where is the best place?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks
Dan

[bergermaister]

Hey Dan- Welcome to the forum!

1- You could get rear bags with two drains made, but custom bags are very pricy. You are better off with off-the-shelf 1100s and then installing another drain yourself as outlined above to save yourself a few hundy.

2- You should be able to use your existing switches with a little rewiring. Are you talking about 3 switches each with 2-way rockers (fill / drain)? With 3 bags you are still just doing a fill/drain on each.

3- The little 750 drain pumps are most likely going to have 3/4" lines. You could keep and reuse those to save your budget a little. They can share a thru hull but ideally you may want them individual so you can tell which bag is empty and which is not if all are running. My setup shares a thru hull for the drain and vent (with a one-way valve on the vent line) for each bag - so 3 total. 2 Fill pumps can share a thru hull but they may end up competing with one another when running at the same time (mine do). Would definitely suggest 1" for the fill side. If you have the room and can keep them below where the water line is to ensure good priming you may want to go with individual thu hulls per pump. Sorta depends on your level of patience waiting for bags to fill too.

Then there's always the single reversible pump per bag option - somebody's sure to chime in on that.

4 - I did the battery move a couple season's ago from the rear compartments to up under the glove box. Cabling gets a bit spendy but it is worth it to have full use of the rear compartments for ballast. Plus a necessity if you are going with 1100 bags with drain pump lines connected off the bottom rear at the back of the boat.

1100's will not get quite full in your MobiusV rear compartments (too big of a bag) so you may have to jockey the bags around when filling every once in a while to make sure you get them as full as possible. The 1180 gravity games bag will fit in your basement locker nicely, just a little crowded up in the bow. I'm assuming you have the playpen seating...

Lots of help here on the forum and www.wakemakers.com is definitely your friend.

I went through a very similar upgrade with batteries and ballast, pics always available - and always helpful to post and show what you've got and are working on or asking about.

[Ripper]

Hi Berg,
1) Guess I could just buy the standard bags and if I want to install a transfer pump I can install the extra drains at that time.

2) I have three fill switches and three drain switches, all single rockers. The drain switches should be ok but the fill switches each turn on the main pump and individually open the separate solenoid valves. This at the very least would have to be re-wired and hopefully I can get them to work with the separate pumps.

3) I like the idea of having the drain and vent lines together for each pump on the same thru hull. Did you get the y's and one way valves from Wakemakers?

I'm toying with the idea of installing the intake thru hulls below the water line on the transom, if they're installed as low as possible they shouldn't draw in any debris. I'm concerned that installing two more thru hulls on the bottom of the hull may cause prop cavitation at higher speeds. What are your thoughts on this?

I don't think I'll be going with the reversible pumps because it can get pretty busy in the boat with our kids and now two grandsons. I'm sure it would only be a matter of time before I forget to turn a pump off and burn it out!

4) Moving the batteries up to the compartment under the glove box won't work for me because I store towels, wake boards and surf boards there. When I pull the boat out of storage this spring I'll measure the height under the seats fore and aft of the cooler, hopefully the batteries will fit in one of those areas.

My boat does have the playpen seating and we don't store anything under it so there's plenty of room for the 1180 bag in the basement locker.

Please post some pics when you have time as I'd like to see them, might make the project go a little smoother.

TIA
Dan

[bergermaister]

4) Moving the batteries up to the compartment under the glove box won't work for me because I store towels, wake boards and surf boards there. When I pull the boat out of storage this spring I'll measure the height under the seats fore and aft of the cooler, hopefully the batteries will fit in one of those areas.

You must have really small boards! :p

Hmmm - I'd highly recommend batteries up there or you'll have problems with bag placement in the rear. You could go to sealed batteries and lay them on their side, tuck those under one of the seat compartments. I'm considering doing that with the useless curved storage area under the passenger side cubby door. Storage compartment height under the seats is roughly 7" - just enough to lay a battery on it's side.

I have 2 batteries up in the cubby plus my amp rack plus about usually a dozen lifejackets stuffed in. It's tight but it works.

http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k414/grberglund/MoombaMobiusV/P1060991.jpg

We usually just throw towels on top of the rear ballast bags and move side to side if needed. Rarely are both 1100's full so the towels wouldn't have a place to live. I mean I like to think I'm good, but I'm not THAT good that I need 2,000 of rear ballast when I wakeboard...

On the switches you may even want to simplify and go with just three 2-way rockers. They're not too expensive and with a "boat load" of kids I could see where you might accidentally be both emptying and filling a bag/bags at the same time and wonder what the hell is taking so long.

No worries about cavitation of any kind from the thru hulls. Just make sure they are not placed in front of a depth finder puck or a paddle wheel speedo pickup. I've seen boats with the thru hulls on the transom (Supreme) but you couldn't really fill while underway doing that - they do have a debris screen over the pickups though. Then there's the exhaust - plus pump placement and hoses would probably be getting a bit close to rudder movement on these boats. (The hull on the Supreme is way deeper.)

Here's a link to my project. The majority of my parts came from wakemakers. A few odds and ends off ebay and even amazon. https://forum.moomba.com/showthread.php?15399-Clean-Slate-Ballast-Installation-Project-T-1200-pumps-all-1-quot-lines

I've got a lot more random pictures of stuff on Photobucket as well.

[Ripper]

Hi Berg,
Thanks for all the help, I'll probably set mine up very similar to yours except with dedicated fill pumps for all bags with their own thru hulls. Also I think I'll stay with the 3/4" drain lines with 750 pumps. I'll have to wait until I get the boat out of storage to figure out the battery issue and that probably won't be until after the May long weekend since we can still get snow here up until then. I've added up the parts that I need and it looks like it will be around $1250 before shipping and tax. Do you know if Wakemakers still has the discount for the forum members?

Have you ever made it out to lake Koocanusa in N.W. Montana?

[bergermaister]

Have you ever made it out to lake Koocanusa in N.W. Montana?
PM Sent.

Nope - is that your home lake?


I'll be lucky to have mine out in May as well, but that doesn't mean the projects have to wait that long...

[EricU]

...I have three fill switches and three drain switches, all single rockers. The drain switches should be ok but the fill switches each turn on the main pump and individually open the separate solenoid valves. This at the very least would have to be re-wired and hopefully I can get them to work with the separate pumps.

Ripper, last year was my first season with our '02 and I got tired real quick of the stock location of the Hippo system switches - I was always trying to see which switch I was hitting and not knowing which switch was what.

So I decided to redo the whole system to give me a better (for me) switch location, bigger ballast bags and quicker fill/drain times. The stock system was sloooowwww

I moved the switches up behind the throttle.
17043



I'm toying with the idea of installing the intake thru hulls below the water line on the transom, if they're installed as low as possible they shouldn't draw in any debris. I'm concerned that installing two more thru hulls on the bottom of the hull may cause prop cavitation at higher speeds. What are your thoughts on this?

I would find it hard to believe that two more thru-hulls would cause cavitation at the flow rates of a boat going through the water, but I would like to hear someone explain it in fluid dynamics terms.




I don't think I'll be going with the reversible pumps because it can get pretty busy in the boat with our kids and now two grandsons. I'm sure it would only be a matter of time before I forget to turn a pump off and burn it out!

I was concerned about not hearing the pump also, but I was told by more than one forum member that you could hear the difference. I am old and used to seeing it spit over the side so I added some check valves and wyes and will be hooking them up like this;
17042



...Moving the batteries up to the compartment under the glove box won't work for me because I store towels, wake boards and surf boards there. When I pull the boat out of storage this spring I'll measure the height under the seats fore and aft of the cooler, hopefully the batteries will fit in one of those areas.

I have two batteries, two amps, the HU's control box and my ACR switch in the hatch area, it does take up some room, but we throw all our towels and clothes right on top.
17044


Good luck with your project!!!!

[chadjitsu1]

This is absolutely making me want to go with 5 pumps on my boat now for shifting weight from one side to the other for surfing. What a great idea.

[EricU]

This is absolutely making me want to go with 5 pumps on my boat now for shifting weight from one side to the other for surfing. What a great idea.

I am reusing my stock aerator pump that originally filled three bags through a valve, but it is now just filling the one front bag.

And I figure by sending WakeMakers money, I am helping to get the economy going!!!

It should fill a LOT faster than the factory setup.

[Ripper]

PM Sent.

Nope - is that your home lake?


I'll be lucky to have mine out in May as well, but that doesn't mean the projects have to wait that long...

Yes, we have a trailer out there just on the canadian side of the border. It's about a 4 hr drive from Calgary but we use it a lot. I have the boat shrink wrapped for the winter and don't want to open it until the weather gets better. (it snowed here today!)

[jasonwm]

I'm a little late to this party, but thought I would chime in.

We developed our X-Link system a couple of years ago to handle pumping water from one side to the other. Cuts fill and drain times roughly in half for most system. You can read more about it on our site here: http://www.wakemakers.com/x-link-cross-fill-ballast-package-html.html

As far as bags go, we list all of the X-Link compatible bags on our website, and there are plenty of off-the-shelf options that will work, so you don't have to spend the money for a custom bag, or risk cutting into your own bags to add extra ports.