Blue Seas Switch & ACR - Where to buy and how to wire...

[EricU]

So now that you guys have helped me pick out my stereo HU, amps and design my sub enclosure, I just need the battery upgrade and charging system.

I plan on adding;
A Blue Sea Switch
A Blue Sea ACR
A second battery
Promarine 20, Dual Bank Charger
And I have the following questions,
What part numbers for the Blue Sea Switch and ACR?
Where to buy - Where online?
Wire it per the following (except modify it for my Kicker amps and no ZLD) and yes I read the thread that I stole the diagram from!!
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g348/nsdhusband/LSV Stereo Upgrade/MoombaStereoWiringv2_cr.png

[jmvotto]

http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Systems-Solenoid-Series/dp/B000OTIPDQ

[rca]

I got mine at:

http://www.marinepartssource.com/newdetails.asp?mfgno=7650&pnumber=BS7650&mfg=BLUE%20SEA%20SYSTEMS&desc=Dual%20Circuit%20Plus%20Battery%20Bank%20Comb iner

Cheapest I could find it.

If you want the diagram in visio I can email you the original. Send me a PM.

[MLA]

The link above is for correct Blue Sea 7610 ACR. The proper switch is the Blue Sea 5511 (the 6011 is the mini if your space is limited). Or, you can by the Blue Sea "Add-A-Battery" Kit with both together, part number 7650.

The current flow of the wire diagram you posted is spot on in regards to how the switch, ACR, amps, batteries and charger are wired.

[rca]

Sorry about that. I got the add a battery option.

[ian ashton]

I also did the Add a Battery kit, got it on sale at West Marine.

Just added an ACR and 2nd battery to my buddies LSV and also got the ACR at West. ~$100 in stock makes impromptu projects easy!

[EricU]

Well, I stopped by West Marine today and picked up the ProSport 20 and the Blue Sea "Add a Battery" kit.

I am almost done with my sub-enclosure and am waiting for my amps to get here.

I have modded rca's diagram to match my components:
Do I need an inline fuse at the (HU) head unit?
I left the ground strip in before the HU for future, is this a good idea?
Any general comments? Changes?
http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv359/EricUht/Moomba/MoombaStereoWiringR129-04-12.jpg

[MLA]

1) The head-unit has a fuse in its power harness to protect the rest of the circuit if an internal short where to occur. Having an in-line fuse at the source where head-unit obtains its power, is a good idea to protect that circuit if there was a short in the circuit between the head-unit and source. The odds are very slim, but it doesnt hurt,
2) I see no issue here
3)You will not need 1/0 GND and B+ for the IX1000.5. 4ga will be fine.
4) Whats the distance between the B+ distro-block and the amps? Is that B+ block a fused or non-fused?

[EricU]

...3)You will not need 1/0 GND and B+ for the IX1000.5. 4ga will be fine.

I put the 1/0 in due to the amp specs for "largest conductor..." which I understand is the largest that the lug will accept.

I used the listed total Total RMS Power = 1,000 watts/12V = 83 amps
When I did the calc, with 1.5' length and a 2% Voltage drop, I got a #8 AWG. I don't mind using #4s or even larger as the runs are very short from the distro block to the amps even though the larger wires can be more difficult to run. I figure that the amps, batteries and blocks will be in the storage area.



4) Whats the distance between the B+ distro-block and the amps? Is that B+ block a fused or non-fused?

I don't think that the runs will be very long at all if I can fit them all in the storage area. The only item that I hope to have farther away will be the Pro20.

And for the the B+ block, I haven't purchased any yet -- so any suggestions???

As a matter of fact, when I was in West Marine today, I had my grubby mits on a couple of ground strips of different sizes (one had 3/8" lugs), but then I figured that I should finish this diagram first!!

Thanks again for any help! Eric.

[MLA]

You would have a hard time getting 1/0 into the lugs. 4ga will serve you just fine. Its not overboard, nor is it cutting corners. Although that amp calls for a 100A external fuse based on its potential draw, due to its efficiency, I doubt you would see a continuous draw over 60A. Keep in mind that the cable gauge calc's need to include the length of the GND cables as well. I bet if you recalculated using 3", that you would come closer to 4ga.

With your scheme, I do not see a need for anymore fusing past the main 150A breaker you have right off the battery. You can use a pair of non-fused distribution blocks or BUSS bars. If you do go with marine BUSS bar, like what you probably looked at at West Marine, I would recommend one with a cover for the B+.

[EricU]

...Keep in mind that the cable gauge calc's need to include the length of the GND cables as well. I bet if you recalculated using 3", that you would come closer to 4ga.

Oops!! Nope, didn't include the ground length! That's why we shouldn't let civil/structural engineers do wire sizing!


...You can use a pair of non-fused distribution blocks or BUSS bars. If you do go with marine BUSS bar, like what you probably looked at at West Marine, I would recommend one with a cover for the B+.

Excellent suggestion, as I know someone at sometime is still gonna want to shove some towels into the storage locker.

Thanks again, Eric.

[EricU]

Revised per the comments - How does this one look?

And thanks again to all you guys that have helped.

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv359/EricUht/Moomba/MoombaStereoWiringR29-05-12.jpg

Eric.

[jstenger]

You show the Blue Sea ACR wired directly to the Blue Sea switch. Don't the Blue Sea directions show the ACR wired directly to the batteries? What am I missing?

[MLA]

When an on-board shore charger is part of the mix, the ACR needs to be wired to the load side of the switch so its not combined with the batteries when the boat is off and the shore charger is on. If the ACR was terminated directly to the battery, it would close due to the charger voltage and combine the batteries. This prevents the two banks, which are used vastly different, from being properly conditioned by the charger.

Does that make sense?

[beat taco]

When an on-board shore charger is part of the mix, the ACR needs to be wired to the load side of the switch so its not combined with the batteries when the boat is off and the shore charger is on. If the ACR was terminated directly to the battery, it would close due to the charger voltage and combine the batteries. This prevents the two banks, which are used vastly different, from being properly conditioned by the charger.

Does that make sense?

Even with a two bank charger I need to go from the ACR to the switch? Mine is ACR to battery with a pro20 charger.


-Jake

[rca]

If you have the ACR wired directly to the batteries, even with a two bank charger, the ACR will try to combine the batteries and the charger will not condition each battery separately. If you have the ACR wired directly to the batteries you need to have a breaker or some way to disconnect the ACR from the batteries. Then the two bank charger will see each battery separately and will condition each battery individually. The way shown above just allows the ACR to work with the boat in normal operating mode and the charger to work when the switch is off, without having to have additional breakers.

Hope that is clear as mud.

[beat taco]

Thanks, I'll change it.


-Jake

[beat taco]

I guess I could just pull the ground on the ACR and it would work?


-Jake

[MLA]

I guess I could just pull the ground on the ACR and it would work?


-Jake

Yes, interrupting the ACR's ground wire will prevent it from combining during shore charging.

[jsmith227]

If you wanted to add a third battery to this (2 combined for stereo / 1 for house) would you just daisy chain (pos to pos and neg to neg) the two for stereo? Would the ACR and Charger be "aware" and treat it as one large stereo batter?

Awesome stuff gentleman!

[MLA]

J,

Yes, just wire the 2nd house battery in parallel (+ to +/- to -) with the existing house battery. They will become one large battery. 2 things to be aware: 1) Combining and older/used battery with a new battery will bring down the new one as the they will equalize. This may reduce the overall life span of the new battery being added in. The age and condition of the existing battery will determine by how much. 2) How deeply this 2-battery house bank is depleted on a given trip, will have some impact on how effective the existing ACR continues to be.

[mmandley]

J,

Yes, just wire the 2nd house battery in parallel (+ to +/- to -) with the existing house battery. They will become one large battery. 2 things to be aware: 1) Combining and older/used battery with a new battery will bring down the new one as the they will equalize. This may reduce the overall life span of the new battery being added in. The age and condition of the existing battery will determine by how much. 2) How deeply this 2-battery house bank is depleted on a given trip, will have some impact on how effective the existing ACR continues to be.

Its also important to note, you want to combine the same size, make and type of battery.

exp Deka 24 series Marine Deep Wet Cell.

Your other option with what MLA is saying is, if the two batteries you currently have are the same style and age, combine them and make your new added the Starter battery.

[EarmarkMarine]

Okay, so let's say you take your existing two batteries (both would have to be deep cycle, one starting and one designated stereo) and they are the same size, age and chemistry. Identical in every aspect except usage. So you parallel these two for the stereo bank. One stereo battery had repetitively been deeply discharged while the other starting battery was barely discharged. Depending on the usage and duration these two identical batteries may no longer be identical. Now they may have a very different impedance.
Of course, you would like to keep your two existing batteries and put them to use if they are similar enough and both are still in good shape. So I would do this.
Place the two batteries in parallel.
Split them up once they are known to be fully charged and check the resting voltage of each after the charging voltage dissipates.
Let them sit for several days in isolation and check the voltage of each.
Split them up once they are discharged and check the voltage of each.
If the voltage is the same in all cases, then I wouldn't be concerned with these two batteries being paralleled into a single bank long term.
If I saw discrepancies then I would know to replace them with two new and identical batteries.
It's not very sophisticated but I would feel more confident by simply measuring.

David

[jsmith227]

OK, Got it. I'm going with new batteries this season anyhow so it will be net new. My stereo is pretty tame compared to others on the thread so I may not even do the 3 battery configuration.

However, I would love to hear what batteries you prefer. I ran Interstate last season (no issues besides my stupidity of depleting it. Had spare and got home safely!), thinking about Optima or Seavolt #27's in either. Saw a #31, but that seems a bit overkill for an LSV. Thoughts?

Thanks Again for all this great info.

JS

[EarmarkMarine]

JS,
AGM batteries (Optima and Seavolt) have many attributes that make them superior to standard flooded lead acid batteries.
Btw, a West Marine Seavolt is a Deka battery which makes an excellent product.
However, most elect to go with a standard lead acid battery like the Interstate deep cycle (27 or 29) because of the greater dollar to amp/hour ratio. Tough to beat the old standard in that respect.
If going with a single stereo battery then definitely step up to a group 29 or 31 for the moderate size and investment difference. Go strictly with deep cycle.

David

[viking]

to the OP's original question.........I think i ended up buying mine from Gander Mountain online on sale cheaper than I could find anywhere else. But that might have been a one time deal??

[jsmith227]

Last question besides battery brand opinions. In the picture there is a non-fused is the GRD(-) Dist Block and then a connection to a GRD (-) Bus Bar. Doesn't the Dist Block and the Bus Bar essentially do the same thing? Is that for future expansion?

Thanks,
JS

[EarmarkMarine]

Last question besides battery brand opinions. In the picture there is a non-fused is the GRD(-) Dist Block and then a connection to a GRD (-) Bus Bar. Doesn't the Dist Block and the Bus Bar essentially do the same thing? Is that for future expansion?

Thanks,
JS

JS,
You could have three types of distribution on both the supply and ground side.
One is the large power distribution block. This takes the main feed and splits it up to the multiple amplifier extensions.
Second is a barrier strip that is used as a transition from large gauge to small gauge wiring (for source electronics, processors, line amps, ipod charging, Bluetooth charging, fans, relays, etc.). This mainly keeps the installation clean and is the one that I assume your question is about.
Third is the factory ground buss & fuse block found under the driver's helm.

David

[EricU]

Last question besides battery brand opinions. In the picture there is a non-fused is the GRD(-) Dist Block and then a connection to a GRD (-) Bus Bar. Doesn't the Dist Block and the Bus Bar essentially do the same thing? Is that for future expansion?

JS, If you are talking about my wiring diagram that I posted earlier, as David mentioned and as you said, it is for both connecting different size wires and for other/future connections of other accessories.

[ditchsnake]

I'm trying to follow this as I want to add a 3rd battery to my setup. ! starting and two stereo. I'd only need a two bank charger as one would charge the starting battery and the other would charge the two stereo batteries wired together. I use the factory isolator. So chat happens when my charge goes above 13.8 volts? The charger would see both banks as one large battery? Confused

[EarmarkMarine]

I'm trying to follow this as I want to add a 3rd battery to my setup. ! starting and two stereo. I'd only need a two bank charger as one would charge the starting battery and the other would charge the two stereo batteries wired together. I use the factory isolator. So chat happens when my charge goes above 13.8 volts? The charger would see both banks as one large battery? Confused

I'm assuming that you are using a voltage sensing relay (VSR, ACR), like a Blue Sea for example, rather than a diode-based isolator.
13.8 volts sounds high for any combining threshold.
In any case, the charge voltage can keep a VSR closed thereby circumventing the dual bank charger isolation.
If this applies to your situation you have three possibly remedies.
One, add A Blue Sea 5511e dual circuit switch that you turn 'Off' whenever the boat is put on the trailer and 'On' whenever the boat is splashed. This method requires that you reverse the Blue Sea schematic so the relay is on the opposite side of the switch from the batteries in order to fix charging isolation with the switch set to 'Off'.
Two, rather than add the 5511e switch, add a small manual switch to the low current ground wire of the VSR to disable it whenever the boat is in storage.
Three, use an AC relay that is tripped when the AC shore charger is plugged in to automatically disable the VSR.

David


Tw

[EricU]

I'm trying to follow this as I want to add a 3rd battery to my setup. ! starting and two stereo. I'd only need a two bank charger as one would charge the starting battery and the other would charge the two stereo batteries wired together. I use the factory isolator. So chat happens when my charge goes above 13.8 volts? The charger would see both banks as one large battery? Confused

I've run my setup for only the last one season, but haven't had any problems at all with the way it is wired.

I currently only run two batteries but will probably be adding a second stereo battery for this season.