Help an idiot

[chawk610]

Hey guys... while the boat sits idle for the next 3-4 months I plan on doing a few things. In addition to installing the transom LED I have, I want to add tower speakers. Bearing in mind I am not rich...are there any opinions on Bazooka? I like the fact that they are 8" and are double ended (insert joke here).

http://www.hifisoundconnection.com/Shop/Control/Product/fp/vpid/8290262/vpcsid/0/SFV/30046

Are they junk? I was gonna stick with all Kicker, but I cannot seem to find 8" tower.

[bzubke1]

You could always try these.

http://www.bulletlines.com/HLCD-Wakeboard-Tower-Speaker-p/466.htm

[chawk610]

That's just for the speaker though isn't it? I really can't spend a ton you know.

[KG's Supra24]

Bulletlines is always running some kind of special so maybe the will go on sale at some point?

Did Ian get rid of his? You could contact Krypt to see about getting the mounting clamps that he is missing.

Are you looking for sound at wakeboard range? Are you interested used?

[bzubke1]

You're right I didn't notice that. I think the kicker hlcd system is the same price and comes with the enclosures. Are you trying to hear the music when you ride or just get something thats gonna put out some sound on the tower.

[newty]

PM sent... Idiot!

[bzubke1]

My bad kickers don't come with pods either.

[dusty2221]

Check with Brian @ Exile. He may be able to come up with something in your budget.

[chawk610]

Ians look really nice, I just wasn't sure about the clamps.. I suppose I could get some. Tenderly used is fine. As for hearing... yea, when riding would be nice, I figure 8" would give more low end.

[KG's Supra24]

8" will give more low end and if you want sound at wakeboarding then you are definitely going to want to look at HLCDs.

I don't think kicker has an 8" horn? Exile obvouisly has a big following here so you might try Brian. Also expect to start seeing used 485's go up for sale this spring when people switch over to the new Rev stuff.

I don't know anything about the Bazooka you mentioned. I have also seen some Memphis tower speakers at a couple shops around here, I don't know anything about those either.

[chawk610]

a good point was made about 8"... hanging low as i have a DD, they would be in the path to hit heads... so 6.5 I reckon is the way to go!

[EarmarkMarine]

I've never understood the concept of front and rear tubbies. Who are the forward-facing speakers playing to and for how much of the time? That ends up being half the compact enclosure displacement per each speaker and splits your valuable power up in a way that doesn't focus the energy where you really need it the most. Kind of a scattershoot approach.
The Krypt is actually a 7.7" and not an 8-inch speaker as represented.
Kicker will soon have tower enclosures shipping for their HLCD drivers. And they look good. Plus you can get some very nice spun aluminum pods packaged with the HLCDs at a very competitive price.
Wetsounds could be closing out the Pro60s one of these days and that should make entry into HLCDs very inexpensive.

David
Earmark Marine

[bergermaister]

Tight budget = ebay! I saw two pairs of Kicker HLCDs both go for $220 each with free shipping just a week or so ago, though no cans. One set was barely used, the other new. Seen Wet sounds go relatively inexpensively in the past as well. Don't see much if any exile on ebay. I picked up my Polks complete with double cans during an auction over the winter few years ago for $265. I think at the time the Buy-it-now option was $900. However I lost probably 7-8 auctions before hitting the right one with time it closed, few other bidders, etc.

If you go cheap on the speakers now you'll most likely find yourself switching them out in a year or two for an upgrade = more $$. I'd suggest being diligent on hunting the auctions this winter but also be patient.

[MLA]

The 8" Bazooka (not the doubles) will be a real struggle to hear while wakeboarding and their sound quality is in line with their price. The Bazooka 8" HLCD have poor mid-bass as compared to a higher end HLCD's. These can be heard while boarding, but again, sound quality.

I would suggest steering clear of the doubles. Wiring two different sized speakers together on a single chnl always leaves one speaker compromised to some degree. If you tune for the smaller speaker, then you dont get the mid-bass out of the larger driver that you wanted. Tune for the larger driver, and you are over driving the smaller speaker. The doubles use a 5.25" speaker in the front.

[chawk610]

I actually am currently waiting on a pair of 6 1/2" Roswells They should be in amy time now! I will be needing some sound advice when they get here for sure!

[chawk610]

THEY CAME IN FINALLY! Now, the only problem is my cluelessness on how to install! reckon I will be searching the threads here. BUT, any hints from you experienced guys are welcome!!!13105131061310713108

P.S. did the forum format change? Or is my PC jacked??? :)

[KG's Supra24]

P.S. did the forum format change? Or is my PC jacked??? :)

Thank you!!!! I've been wondering the same thing myself. Appears the same to me, just all scrunched into the middle.

Oh, and you just hook the wires from the speakers to the holes in the amp. I'd suggest electrical tape to hold the wire next to the tower. ;)

[chawk610]

"Oh, and you just hook the wires from the speakers to the holes in the amp. I'd suggest electrical tape to hold the wire next to the tower. "

LMAO... gee, thanks! :)

[EarmarkMarine]

Just curious, but is there any particular reason for recommending electrical tape over duct tape?

[chawk610]

Well, I assume because my tower is black. Besides, electrical tape leaves that wonderful gummy residue behind!

[chawk610]

Hey, you are from Dallas, tempt you with your weight in beer and Little Cesars Pizza to come help? Or do you not touch other makers stuff? :p

[KG's Supra24]

Hey, you are from Dallas, tempt you with your weight in beer and Little Cesars Pizza to come help? Or do you not touch other makers stuff? :p

Ha, if this were the case I'd be at his shop with a keg and a couple pizza's of his choice next weekend!

David does make a good point, though. There are alot of different patterns and colors available in duct tape. It also may hold up to the elements better. Tough call but def needs some pics when complete. :)

[chawk610]

Jack arses... I have done a search, but not finding much in the way of hiding the wires.

[rdlangston13]

Jack arses... I have done a search, but not finding much in the way of hiding the wires.

if you amp behind the left observer seat? you should be able to see a spot in there with two or three bolts sticking through that line up with your tower leg. drill a hole up into there making sure that you are in fact going inside the tower. next you can need to decide if you want your speakers on the front bar or the rear bar. the front bar is much better for hiding wires but if you have a z5 i dont think they will fit and you will need to go with the rear bar. find out where you want the speakers, mark it with something that can come off easily, then drill your holes according to how the speakers are designed. get alot of zip ties and some electrical tape and and make a long snaking device and fish it from top to bottom or bottom to top. once it is fished attach your wires to one end and pull it through. go slow and be careful, to me this was the more frustrating part of the install

[chawk610]

Cool... ok, that was my biggest question was going from inside the tower to inside where the amp was. I have piano wire I am going to use to fish the wires. Thank you!

[EarmarkMarine]

It pains me to get serious for a moment today but here goes...
When you drill through the deck cap into the base/foot of the 2.375" tower (provided the hole doesn't already exist) try and anticipate the angle and place a stop on your drill bit to limit the penetration depth. Use full-coverage goggles and a basic breathing mask. Fiberglass dust is nasty stuff. A little baby powder on your hands and forearms in advance will help eliminate any fiberglass irritation. Initially rinse off with cold water only.
Look at our site installation gallery for a few examples of how to make up external service loops (at the midway hinge point and from the tower to speaker if it applies with your speakers) with flexloom and heatshrink. If you want to transfer the harness from the front to the rear tower then I have an easy and concealed procedure for that.

David
Earmark Marine

BTW, the best pizza in the world is Marion's Pizza in Dayton Ohio.

[bergermaister]

A little baby powder on your hands and forearms in advance will help eliminate any fiberglass irritation.

Wish I would have seen that about 3 years ago...

[kaneboats]

Yea, me too before I rotozipped the cooler out. I'm still coughing up little pieces of fiberglass but the itching stopped a few months later.

[chawk610]

done!!!! was not easy hiding the wires... but it looks great! i think it is time for a more powerful amp though. it all sounds good but the stock amp is under powered i think.

[bergermaister]

pics or it didn't happen :rolleyes:

[chawk610]

lol... ok, gimmie a sec

[chawk610]

here it s ta da!1314713148131491315013151

[KG's Supra24]

Impressive! I now feel incredibly lazy.

I did almost pass out when I saw the 2nd pic, though.

What amp do you have powering them?

[chawk610]

Oh... the stock amp, it definitely will have to be upgraded. What was with the second pic?

[mmandley]

Oh... the stock amp, it definitely will have to be upgraded. What was with the second pic?

The hanging wire almost looks like you drilled it into the cross bar for the wake board racks

[chawk610]

Oh... gotcha, that was pre wire pull!

[KG's Supra24]

Yea, at first I thought you had run the wire from speaker to that crossbar, forgetting to use the electrical tape and all.

Do you know what the stock amp is? Do you feel its wired appropriately?

[chawk610]

You know... I am a bit ignorant about it actually. I will get the manual out today and see. As for as wired correctly, I believe so, the system sounds really good. I just don't feel I am getting enough bass out of my 12" sub. I am trying to avoid the whole"dual battery set up" if at all possible. I am hoping I can just replace my amp with a higher powered one maybe. But what I know about stereo systems wouldn't fill a dwarfs jock-strap. :)

[kaneboats]

Dual battery is easy enough. Get a perko switch and a cheap battery box. Nothing to it.

[chawk610]

Yea, I have a diagram on how to wire it up... I just don't want to screw anything up. Also, we have spent quite a bit this winter already...prolly ought to slow down a bit.

[bzubke1]

The stock amp in my boat is a kicker zx200.4 way underpowered for 6 inboat speakers.

[chawk610]

That sounds right... I think that's what I have as well. So, a 4 channel ???w amp?

[KG's Supra24]

The dual battery setup isn't too hard but I understand on the cost.

I asked about wiring thinking there might be a way to get more out of your current amp. Do you currently have the stock amp hooked up to in-boats, sub, and the new tower speakers?

[chawk610]

yea... everything... I am sure there is prolly a better way.

[KG's Supra24]

If that is indeed the amp. Then you are looking at 200w x 4 channels. This doesn't hold true for all speakers but here is a generalization of the amp specs ...

1. 35 watts x 4 chan. @ 4 ohms - If you wired 4 speakers, each speaker would see 35 watts
2. 50 watts x 4 chan. @ 2 ohms - If you wired 2 speakers together on one channel (2 ohm) then each would see 25 watts.
3. 100 watts x 2 chan. @ 4 ohms - If you bridged (i think?), you could wire 2 speakers getting 100 watts each.

A combo of option 1 and 2 is ideal for in boat speakers. Option 3 would be ideal for your new towers.

Aside from all of the above, you are asking a small 4 channel amp to run 9(?) speakers? You def are not getting the full potential out of the speakers. You might be better off by either not running some of the in boats or running them off the head unit.

So I guess the question to you is, do you have any interest in buying another amp for the summer?

[kaneboats]

One thing that was important to me being a sound system newbie was when I added a sub I was able to use my in boat stock amp on high pass. It really helped everything sound better. I actually used my old tower speakers' amp, which was a 250.2 in bridge mode for the sub. Then I added a bigger amp for the tower speakers.

[chawk610]

So I guess the question to you is, do you have any interest in buying another amp for the summer?

Yes, I believe so. I want it to sound it's best for sure... if I can achieve that with (1) amp that would be ideal. I believe in keeping it as simple as possible.

[EarmarkMarine]

The Kicker ZX200.4 would be just enough to drive six basic in-boat coaxials decently but absolutely no more. With two cockpit coaxials in parallel on each of the two rear channels you would have 25 watts per speaker. After you gain the remaining two front channels on the two bow speakers, to effectively match the cockpit speakers in output, you will have the equavilent power to all six speakers (6 X 25 watts). Even without a subwoofer running the amplifier in the highpass mode at 55 Hz (assuming the amplifier has variable highpass provisions on all channels) will not diminish any bass contribution by the 6.5" coaxials but will clean up both the amplifier and speakers. So you could use this amplifier and just supplement it for tower and subwoofer power.

David
Earmark Marine

[chawk610]

I really need someone to dumb that down for me please. :)

[KG's Supra24]

Your speakers will benefit from being grouped into in-boats, sub, and towers. That allows high-pass to be used.

Here are the two options I see if you are only wanting to add one amp.

1. Use your factory amp to push the tower speakers, 100 watts x 2. Then pick up a 5 channel amp that could be used to run the in-boats and sub.

2. Use your factory amp to push the in-boats, 25 watts x 6. Then pick up a 4 channel amp to run the towers and sub with. I think this would have to be a specific 4 channel amp? I don't know about that department.

Things to consider: 1. You may be better off picking up 2 monoblock amps and running 3 amps instead of picking up another a/b amp. 2. You may be better off scraping that amp altogether and picking up 2 new ones.

Start here: What in boat speakers do you have? What sub do you have? Do you have a budget in mind? Less than $300, 500, 750, etc?

Only factual info we have right now is we want at least 75 watts x 2 going to the tower.

[EarmarkMarine]

Yes, similar to what is stated above by KG, you should not consider your amplifier options until you are decided on the exact speakers. Speakers absolutely dictate amplification and the utilization of that amplification. Then the process will go easy and make more sense.

David
Earmark Marine

[bzubke1]

If it was me I would probably go with option 1 that KG laid out for you. It's simple and effective.

David how do the stock kicker inboats stack up with some of the popular speakers in there price range such as the polk db series, exile, and wetsounds? I bet they could sound a lot better but are just held back because of the lack of power they get from the stock amp.

[chawk610]

Ok... my current set up is:
(6) in boat Kicker 6.5
(1) 12" Kisker sub in it's own enclosure (ported)
(2) Roswell R6 tower speakers
(1) Kenwood HU (not sure of model)
(1) Kicker amp
I am happy with the speakers and not looking to replace. I just want to get the most out of them.
So, is adding an amp an automatic "Add a second battery" situation?

[jmvotto]

Ok... my current set up is:
(6) in boat Kicker 6.5
(1) 12" Kisker sub in it's own enclosure (ported)
(2) Roswell R6 tower speakers
(1) Kenwood HU (not sure of model)
(1) Kicker amp
I am happy with the speakers and not looking to replace. I just want to get the most out of them.
So, is adding an amp an automatic "Add a second battery" situation?

adding a second amp I would say yes add a second battery, I ran all summer a few years back wwith one battery and a 6 channel amp. once I got the second amp I added another battery and a vsr switch, works like a charm.

[KG's Supra24]

I hate to keep asking questions buuuutt ... Do you know which kicker sub?

I'm assuming the in-boats are the factory kicker in-boats. I think the goal there would be to get them in the 50 watt rms range. Then you want enough amp (if going with option #1) to give the sub at least 300rms, I'd think.

For hypothetical purposes, lets say you get the JL XD700.5 (you would be looking for something similar). Option 1 that was discussed before would look like this:
In boats: 700.5 using 2 channels to bow and 2 channels to cockpit = 2 x 60 watts and 4 x 45 watts
Sub: 700.5 using the sub channel to give you 300 x 1
Tower: factory amp bridged giving you 200 x 2.

That gives each of the speakers what they are looking for and will sound exponentially better than 200/9, which honestly, I'd be surprised if all speakers were running if they are all hooked up to the amp.

End min goal should be: min of 75x2 to tower; min of 40x6 (likely in a 4 channel setup)to in-boats; min of 250x1 to sub
End ideal goal should be: 100x2 to tower; 55x6 to in-boat; 300+ to sub.

Don't let the second battery scare you from an install standpoint. It's not bad.

[KG's Supra24]

Oh, and I've recently learned all this stuff so everything I say is subject to be changed by one of the guys that knows more. I'm just bored and felt I could be of some assistance.

[chawk610]

I guess I need to pul up my big girl panties and just do it. I wanna look at that JL amp you mentioned... start looking at prices!

[EarmarkMarine]

bzubke1,
To answer your question about the factory Kicker coaxials. This is a true marine speaker that is built tough. It already has a continuous midbass cone. So from a construction standpoint its a great product. And, it will definitely benefit when correctly powered.
When you go to an upgrade you are going from a 'W' style dome tweeter (which is kind of a cone/dome hybrid) to a true dome with a larger voice coil. For example, the upgrade Kicker marine coaxial that essentially looks the same, while less sensitive, has a completely different sound. Its just so much smoother.
In our soundboard we have the Polk MM651UM, upgrade Kicker marine coaxial, Exile's newer coaxial, JL Audio MX coaxial and the Wetsounds XS-650. These are all marine 6.5" coaxials.
A row down we have Boston Acoustics, Hertz, Focal and a couple of other automotive 6.5" coaixals.
Its hard to find this line up in one place so that you can really compare in a fair and equal environment. If you ever get a chance stop by for a listen.
I'd rather not pick a favorite for you.

David
Earmark Marine

[chawk610]

David, I am looking at yalls website as we speak. Are you at the Lewisville location? Do yall install second batteries with perko? Thinking I may just need to drag the boat and leave it a week. Don't see me being able to do as clean a work as I am wanting.

Casey

[chawk610]

The advice is definitley appreciated KG, but this is starting to get a little more compicated than I think I want to tackle. I am a tad paranoid to start messing with the boats wiring. On my '83 Mastercraft I used to have I replaced the dash with real wood... created an electrical gremlin that took me weeks to track down. I couldn't bare to do that to this boat. :)

[KG's Supra24]

No problem. You can't go wrong going down to Earmark. Their picture gallery shows some real nice work. I've actually bought most of my stuff from him and he would likely be installing if I lived closer.

You should report back on the setups they have if you go down there. I'm surprised more Dallas area guys haven't checked out speakers and and given some "common guy" feedback. It seems like it is one of the few places you could compare all the brands, both the tower speakers and the coaxials listed out a couple post up.

[EarmarkMarine]

Casey,
Absolutely.
Give Byronn or Bob a visit in Lewisville.
I'm there frequently.

David
Earmark Marine

[KG's Supra24]

Chawk, there are two options ...

https://forum.moomba.com/showthread.php?17098-Got-a-pair-of-XM9-s-now-its-time-to-paint-em!/page2

[mmandley]

Chawk, there are two options ...

https://forum.moomba.com/showthread.php?17098-Got-a-pair-of-XM9-s-now-its-time-to-paint-em!/page2

Smart guy, you linked Ians thread about painting speakers?

[dusty2221]

Smart guy, you linked Ians thread about painting speakers?

Smart guy, you should read the thread.

[wolfeman131]

I'm surprised more Dallas area guys haven't checked out speakers and and given some "common guy" feedback. It seems like it is one of the few places you could compare all the brands, both the tower speakers and the coaxials listed out a couple post up.

I'm not a big stereo guy as I'm more often talking to folks in the boat or indtructing people behind the boat, but I will be in the Big D on Feb 2nd and plan to stop by and check it all out.

[mmandley]

Smart guy, you should read the thread.

I have been reading this thread man, it was about him wanting tower speakers, then he got some, then he mounted them, and now people are telling him to upgrade his amp.

Guess you guys lost me linking Ians thread because Ian got speakers and is painting them and there Plastic.

Now if you talking about painting then ok but i thought we were still talking amps? LOL

Smart guy was enderring in the form i was trying to use it in LOL

[dusty2221]

I'll make it a little clearer, read Ians last post in the thread, specifically the part where he mentions he bought new amps and asked if anyone wanted to buy his.....

That would be the relevance of the link.

:)

[KG's Supra24]

http://hollywoodhatesme.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/bitchslap.jpg

[chawk610]

LMFAO at the above!

[dusty2221]

http://thisainthell.us/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/get-a-brain-moran.bmp

[kaneboats]

So chawk, who's the idiot now?

This is more of a rhetorical question. (Everyone reading this thread including this poster probably fits in that category now.)

[sandm]

http://planetsmilies.net/not-tagged-smiley-10220.gif (http://planetsmilies.net)

[chawk610]

Ha! My hand is still raised! Hoping to still score an amp on the cheap... anyone... anyone???

[wolfeman131]

You better quickly send a PM Ian and/or KG!

[KG's Supra24]

I think the 700.5 of Ians is spoken for? I have a 4 channel and I have two monoblock amps for sale in the classifieds but I no longer have a big desire to sell them, only reason I haven't made a plug.

I had been sitting back wondering if anyone was doing stereo upgrades this year and then BAM, we have 4 or 5 starting up!!!

[chawk610]

I talked to Ian, I believe both amps are spoken for... So... KG, whats the dealio on the 4 channel?

[KG's Supra24]

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-bL337on...l#overview-tab

That's what I have. I hadn't recommended it because you are still going to need an amp to push the sub and an amp to push the towers.

[chawk610]

I have the stock amp still, I was gonna use that for cabin, and get an additional amp to run the tower / sub. The link 404'd me

[KG's Supra24]

You got this ... http://cdn0.knowyourmeme.com/i/28590/original/originaljosephd.jpg

Kenwood KAC-8402

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-5orwIlApcne/p_113KAC8402/Kenwood-KAC-8402.html#overview-

[chawk610]

ahhh 60 watts Yea, I would need something bigger... huh

[Clamcakes]

Check the sonicelectronix.com site. I've bought quite a bit of audio equipment from, both for my boat and suv

[Jet]

Hey chawk610 whats your plans on the transom led? Iam also doing one in a month or so and wanted to pick your brain?? I have 20' of red led's and Im hoping I have enough left over to do my transom also. What led's are you using?? Jet

[chawk610]

Hey Jet, I did my interiors earlier last Fall. They are the 3M led's but they do nt adhere well... I used silicone to keep them in place. I ran right side lights and tied into the courtesy light... and the left I ran directly to the courtesy light switch. As for the transom, I did the group buy we did here last summer. I will be installing it really soon I hope!