It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas...

[ian ashton]

http://img.tapatalk.com/a6937fbc-33b8-c641.jpg

Harpoon (only 1) just arrived at my office. Going to figure out my next steps soon; likely a pair of XM9s

I can't wait for spring so I can start playing!

[KG's Supra24]

I'm awaiting a box at my doorstep as well :)

[E4NASH]

Santa needs to bring me a new boat this year! Going through withdrawal... :-(


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[you da man]

To: Ian
From: Ian
Gotta love those gifts

[mmandley]

Not that i have any room to talk about bad typing but i think its bad karma to Beg at Christmas, or you were just so excited you couldnt type correctly LOL

[ian ashton]

To: Ian
From: Ian
Gotta love those gifts

They are truely the best kind! LOL! "Laura, look what you got me for Christmas!"

[ian ashton]

Not that i have any room to talk about bad typing but i think its bad karma to Beg at Christmas, or you were just so excited you couldnt type correctly LOL

I typed it on my iPhone and noticed it when I logged in on my laptop, but it was too late to correct :(

[wolfeman131]

it was too late to correct :(

note my present to you, Mister Ashton :)

[wolfeman131]

Sorry Mike, I don't have enough time to get you the same thing. LOL, bro!

[ian ashton]

LOL! Thanks drew!

[newty]

Your right mike you have no room to talk!! LMAO Sorry bro had to take the shot!

Funny Drew! Ahhh, the gift of spellcheck.

[mmandley]

I know I post a lot off my cell or I'm typing fast and don't proof read it lol most that know me well just call it Mike type lol the average person understands it but it's fare from normal English

[ian ashton]

I agree, it is "fare" from normal English.

[KG's Supra24]

Thread is too funny. I agree it's "fare" from English as punctuation is commonly used. :D

[newty]

Thread is too funny. I agree it's "fare" from English as punctuation is commonly used. :D

Fare run-on and on and on and on....

[wolfeman131]

I thought Mike was overcome with the Christmas Spirit and was singing in his head. You know . . .

"fare-la-la-la-la, la-la-la-la"

[newty]

Or the words of my Avitar: Fare ra ra ra ra, ra ra ra raaaaaaaaaaaaa!:D

[KG's Supra24]

Christmas reached Arkansas yesterday!

http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i401/kwgarner24/download1.jpg

[ian ashton]

I thought you were running Exile? Are those Rev10s?

[KG's Supra24]

Nope, no exile. You are thinking about Dusty.

Yep, Rev10s.

[ian ashton]

Nope, no exile. You are thinking about Dusty.

Yep, Rev10s.

Ahh yes, your "boyfriend"

[KG's Supra24]

Ahh yes, that's what i was thinking of

Fixed it for ya

[New Guy]

KG that is going to rip! What are you going to power them with?

[KG's Supra24]

Top box contains dual syn4's :) 400x4

[cab13367]

KG,

Just curious - why did you decide to go with Wetsounds?

Thanks,

Al

[dusty2221]

KG,

Just curious - why did you decide to go with Wetsounds?

Thanks,

Al

Oh lord.

Sent from Galaxy S2 using Tapatalk.

[wolfeman131]

Oh lord.

Sent from Galaxy S2 using Tapatalk.

I can't wait for this story!

[KG's Supra24]

Dusty says "oh lord" bc he caught the brunt of my thinking out loud. I could probably write a novel explaining the different factors that went into the decision but at the end of the day I feel it came down to the fact if I went Exile I would 2nd guess if I should have went WS more so than vice versa. If that makes sense.

[wolfeman131]

No, that makes no sense at all!

That's just my "I'm jealous of your cool stuff that I wish I could afford on my boat" voice talkin'.

I get where you're coming from and am interested to have you & Dusty post up your impressions of each system once you get them side-by-side. I'm also taking bets on which of you will flip to the other side first.

[cab13367]

Thanks KG, appreciate your honesty. It does make sense. Honestly, I think that all/most of us would be happy with either product.

As Drew says, it will be interesting to hear yours and Dusty's takes on your systems when the time comes.

Al

[dusty2221]

The anticipation is high on this end as well. Both brands are top of the line and will have been properly tuned and setup so we can hopefully give some great comparison feedback. We have had a lot of "fun spirited" arguments/discussions throughout this journey!

[rdlangston13]

I feel that for a truly fair comparison that dusty needs to upgrade to xm9s. I'm mean this is going to be top of the line latest and greatest wet sounds vs dated exile.

[New Guy]

RD I agree then he can sell his exiles to me for a smoking deal!

[dusty2221]

RD I agree then he can sell his exiles to me for a smoking deal!

Woah! Let's slow this train down a bit!

Sent from Galaxy S2 using Tapatalk.

[rsinger]

Woah! Let's slow this train down a bit!

Sent from Galaxy S2 using Tapatalk.

Not a chance. It's just getting started. I should have held of on your other ones. I might be bidding on what you have still boxed up.

For what it's worth, my bet's on you upgrading again before KG. Can't wait til spring and see where it goes from there.

I seem to remember someones wise advice "feed the fever"? Can't remember who though.:rolleyes:

In any case, you guys are lucky in that you can get your stuff installed for Christmas if you want. I've got to wait until April. Have fun.

[KG's Supra24]

For what it's worth, my bet's on you upgrading again before KG. Can't wait til spring and see where it goes from there.


Same here :o

[dusty2221]

Let's clear that statement up a bit, upgrading to more equipment or switching brands?

......clarify please.

[KG's Supra24]

Oh i see, so there might be more equipment in the works huh? :twisted:

After all the "trash talk" we have been through, I can't imagine you switching brands.

[dusty2221]

Yeah, you got that right. All I know is, I hope you have got some boom in your pow.

:)

[KG's Supra24]

http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i401/kwgarner24/DSC_0230.jpg

That guy has boom and pow! Hell I hope anyways, haven't heard it. LOL

[KG's Supra24]

http://images.cryhavok.org/d/13557-1/Threadjack.jpg

[rsinger]

Let's clear that statement up a bit, upgrading to more equipment or switching brands?

......clarify please.

To clarify, I think it might be either one or the other, or both. It all depends what happens when you and Kyle get your boat side by side. To be honest, you both seem to be going with the bleeding edge stuff, that asides from personnel preference you'll be hard pressed to decide to either upgrade or go to a different brand, just based on the sound. Just wish I could be there to hear them both.

I'm hoping though. I'd probably be the first in line for your seconds. :D

[KG's Supra24]

You can be certain I will not be switching unless somehow it just sounds like shiii. I don't see that happening. I think the same goes for Dusty as we have put in a lot of time and money.

I am looking forward to the comparison though, no doubt. Hopefully we can post some video or even better have some other people from the forum take a listen and get their take.

As far as the fairness that RD mentioned. Dusty and I have talked at length but we are mostly interested to see how the two compare at surf distance. We both assume the loudness at wake distance should go to Wetsounds but we want to hear the difference at surf and party cove range. Oh and of course when we link them together :)

[rdlangston13]

I think Brian should donate a two pairs of XM9s to Dusty and have a partial sponsorship of his sound system. I mean these two are always together on the water and I am sure Brian doesn't want Kyles wetsounds gear out performing Dustys exile gear every weekend in front of everyone at the lake.

[rsinger]

I think Brian should donate a two pairs of XM9s to Dusty and have a partial sponsorship of his sound system.

You could have something there. Sure would be nice to be there when both boats hit the water, and see the fruits of their labor.

[kaneboats]

I may just have to plan a road trip to go see those two blokes (and their saintly mothers) so I can judge this thing for myself.

[rsinger]

I may just have to plan a road trip to go see those two blokes (and their saintly mothers) so I can judge this thing for myself.

It looks like there's a "get together" in the making. If you and/or your crew are thinking of checking out the "show down". I'll talk to the wife and we'll try to make a week of it. Just got a trailer and she is already bugging me to "go places".

Forget Flint River. This'll be the "ear splittin, gut shakin, event" at Broken Bow. Ear plugs optional.

[KG's Supra24]

spu spu sponsership?!? Say what?!?

FWIW, and so we can keep dragging this on (because its fun)

hybrid = 6 x 6.5" = 39" of surface area
xm9's = 4 x 8.25" = 33" of surface area

Quite a bit more surface area with the hybrid setup versus the xm9 setup.

"road trip", "get together", "show down" ... uhhh, I don't even have anything installed. Add to that my installer is now my competition, LOL. David (earmark), I may be calling soon.

[dusty2221]

Add in, Rev 10 = 4 x 10" = 40" surface area.

When linked up together.....it makes me smile just thinking about it.

[rsinger]

Add to that my installer is now my competition, LOL.

Oh oh. Didn't know that. Looks like there a bit of conflict of interest now. If I see pictures with your speakers installed backwards I'll know what happened. :p

[philwsailz]

Just to jump in and talk about cone area for just a second.. :)

In terms of speaker parameters, the measuremend of Sd shown in Thiele - Small parameters is the effective cone area of a driver, expressed in sq. in. or some other measure of area. You guys are measureing diameter only and not considering area.

The way we typically measure Sd is to take the diameter as measured from the middle of the speaker surround roll to the middle of the surround roll 180 degrees away. There is a mathematical reason we measure from the middle of the surround roll, (has to do with differences in excursion at extreme edge vs. at the surround - cone joint but will will not go into that). Take that linear dimension and plug it into the equation PI*D^2/4, (pi times the diameter squared, divided by 4). Some know the equation as PI*R^2 but sometimes it is easier to just use the diameter as a value in the first equation. Mathematically they are the same.

Assuming KG's numbers above are actuall roll-to roll diameters, (they are not, but lets use them since he did) we can do the math and show the following:

6.5" speakers:
PI*(6.5^2)/4 = 3.14x42.25/4 = 33.16 sq. in. for each 6.5" speaker. That means roughly 199 sq. in. of cone area for 6 drivers, not 39

8" speakers
PI*(8.25^2)/4 = 3.14x68.06/4 = 53.43 sq. in. for each 8" speaker. That means roughly 214 sq. in. of cone area for 4 drivers, not 33


Mathematically, when you account for cone area instead of cone diameter you find they are about the same... :)

Just thought I would bring a little math to the table... Based on the logic presented in previous posts on the previous page , the math would suggest two 6" drivers were equal to a single 12" driver, and I think we can all visualize that would not be the case!!

Phil
Kicker

[philwsailz]

And to bring Dusty's numbers into play, just to be fair, and assuming 10" in his post was a roll-to-roll diameter measurement:

PI*(10^2)/4 = 3.14x100/4 = 78.5 sq. in. for each 10" driver. That means roughly 314 sq in. for 4 10" drivers

Again, this just uses diameters provided in previous posts. The roll-to-roll diameter of a 10" driver is going to be more like 8.5", (I went and measured a woofer just now to be sure) so these numbers are only theoretical, but they show how quicky cone area can go up when speaker diameters go up; it is exponential...

Also, to be fair, when considering coaxial drivers, and comparing cone area, you REALLY need to consider doing the math to remove the part of the cone that is missing where the pole mounted tweeter or horn go through. A sealed cone with no hole in the middle and nothing poking through it will have more radiating area than the same diameter cone that has a hole in the middle.

FYI
Phil
Kicker

[dusty2221]

Great information there Phil. I never realized how complicated it could become!!

[philwsailz]

Great information there Phil. I never realized how complicated it could become!!

Oh, but as the Carpenter's sang, "We've only just begun..."

Consider this. If you have a speaker that is 50 sq.in. you would expect a speaker that was 100 sq. in. to play twice as loud, right? Well, not nccessarily.

If the 50 Sq. in. speaker is 93 dB efficient, and the 100 sq. in speaker is 90 dB efficient, (and assuming identical frequency response, which would be difficult, but let's assume it) you would hear zero difference!

There is a LOT that goes into it! :)

Phil
Kicker

[KG's Supra24]

Yea, the number 3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375 ... never came into my equation, lol.

I was merely trying to pass the winter away. Good reading, though, as its nice to learn more of the science side of the equation opposed to the "hype".

Plus you even worked in a Carpenter's reference!! :D

[EarmarkMarine]

The weight of the cone is generally determined by adding the cone to 50 percent of the surround. For calculating surface area, personally I like to stick with edge of the cone to edge of the cone. Some cones terminate underneath the surround while others are over the top. Take that into consideration also. And surrounds can greatly vary in their contribution to moving surface area depending on their compliance.
Strictly from outside cone to cone edge here is what you have.
A hybrid consisting of four SXT65s and two XM7s is 105.10 sq in collective surface area.
Four XM9s would be 122.72 sq in collective surface area.
A hybrid consisting of four SXT65s and two XM9s is 132.60 sq in collective surface area.
Four REV10s would be 176.72 sq in collective surface area.

The surface area number will have a strong correlation to output and to a large degree the bass extension. However, past a point it is the pod/enclosure that is largely impacting the bass extension with any woofer or speaker. In other words, you can put a larger speaker in an undersized pod/enclosure and see a diminished benefit as compared to the potential of the larger speaker's bass response. So ideally the pod/enclosure should grow in proportion to the speaker increase.

Just a little info added to Phil's. Hope this helps in understanding how things work.

David
Earmark Marine

Multiple speaker surface area can sum for output but will not combine to extend the bass or midbass response. It can certainly add to the impact but the bass response of one speaker versus a quantity of identical speakers will essentially be the same.

[philwsailz]

The weight of the cone is generally determined by adding the cone to 50 percent of the surround. For calculating surface area, personally I like to stick with edge of the cone to edge of the cone. Some cones terminate underneath the surround while others are over the top. Take that into consideration also. And surrounds can greatly vary in their contribution to moving surface area depending on their compliance.
Strictly from outside cone to cone edge here is what you have.
A hybrid consisting of four SXT65s and two XM7s is 105.10 sq in collective surface area.
Four XM9s would be 122.72 sq in collective surface area.
A hybrid consisting of four SXT65s and two XM9s is 132.60 sq in collective surface area.
Four REV10s would be 176.72 sq in collective surface area.

The surface area number will have a strong correlation to output and to a large degree the bass extension. However, past a point it is the pod/enclosure that is largely impacting the bass extension with any woofer or speaker. In other words, you can put a larger speaker in an undersized pod/enclosure and see a diminished benefit as compared to the potential of the larger speaker's bass response. So ideally the pod/enclosure should grow in proportion to the speaker increase.

Just a little info added to Phil's. Hope this helps in understanding how things work.

David
Earmark Marine

Multiple speaker surface area can sum for output but will not combine to extend the bass or midbass response. It can certainly add to the impact but the bass response of one speaker versus a quantity of identical speakers will essentially be the same.

David is making me go into it... :)

The reason why acoustical engineers measure cone diameter from the middle of the surround is as follows:

When looking at the rubber surround, the part of the surround that is directly glued to the cone is moving in and out at the same amplitude, (distance in and out) as the cone; it must, as it is attached. Similarly, when we look at the very outside edge of the surround, it is glued to the basket, and CANNOT move. Between these two points of reference, the surround does move in and out some, and the in-and-out excursion at any given point is a function of the distance between the surround/basket joint and the surround/come joint. SInce the surround moves in and out, and it has area, it does contribute to the output of the speaker, and when we start talking about moving mass, the mass of the cone.

Since the outside edge is not moving at all, and the inside edge is moving fully with the cone, we can mathematically determine that on average, the surround as a whole is moving in and out at basically half the distance of the cone, or put another way, half of the surround is contributing to the sound output, (and moving mass) of the cone. So, this is why we use half of the surround as a reference point for cone diameter measurement.

Just a little propeller-head rambling, still WAY off topic from the original post, and sorry, no Carpenters reference with this post... :)

Phil
Kicker

[dusty2221]

So basically, you guys both agree we should have two amazing sounding setups!

Ha!

[philwsailz]

So basically, you guys both agree we should have two amazing sounding setups!

Ha!

Hah hah... No, as a manufacturer, I took VERY careful steps not to step on the toes of any other manufacturer or make any statement of opinion... :) Sgt. Friday on Dragnet, "Just the facts, Ma'am..."

Phil
Kicker

[dusty2221]

https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRKLMxUKl9gNzNkgXrN3ZToIZuZzwGMG iRHsC-zJGShZ_H-rKk2ww

[rsinger]

https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRKLMxUKl9gNzNkgXrN3ZToIZuZzwGMG iRHsC-zJGShZ_H-rKk2ww

Lets make this a little easier for you and me both. I think this is what we're looking for.

http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb397/rsingerwpg/volume.jpg

[EarmarkMarine]

Its all true what Phil said as an industry standard for surface area measurement. I won't recalculate because it really won't change the comparisons enough to matter. But we get the idea.

David
Earmark Marine

[04OUTBACK]

I like Pecan Pi

[Inliner]

One question to you guys about your subs. I had quite a time in my Outback getting a good place for my 10" sub. It wound up under the driver's seat in a custom built box (measured, built and trimmed to match the boat by me) and works very well there. But getting the right size box to mount it in and all to get proper bass was quite a chore. How have you guys gone about building your boxes for your subs or do you not use boxes at all?

[KG's Supra24]

We ended up mounting under the driver's helm. We really didn't want to give up much foot room so we built one that mounts onto the hump in the floor. Dusty spent quite a bit of time getting a box that was big enough size wise but small enough not too take up too much room.

Final result was a 12" in a sealed enclosure about 1.1 cu ft. The box is behind the carpeted facia and doesn't go all the way to the ground so you retain all the legroom.

http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i401/kwgarner24/2011-05-17_19-48-48_77.jpg

[EarmarkMarine]

Inliner,
That is a good question. Depending on the model, many Moombas and Supras present more of a subwoofer challenge than other inboard brands due to the pronounced floor hump.
You ALWAYS want to determine the limitations of your enclosure before deciding on a specific subwoofer driver...and possibly the method of loading whether it be acoustic suspension, bass reflex or other. A 10-inch in an optimum enclosure can in many ways outperform a 12-inch in a compromised enclosure and it would be the same with any other size to size comparison. While the subwoofer's size or surface area will impact the output, past a certain point it will be the enclosure that is mostly responsible for the low bass extension.

David
Earmark Marine

[ian ashton]

It wound up under the driver's seat in a custom built box \

How on earth did you fit a sub under the seat?! Did you mean under the dash? Post pics!

[Inliner]

How on earth did you fit a sub under the seat?! Did you mean under the dash? Post pics!

Sorry, I misstated Ian. It is under the dash mounted the same way KG's is. I measured for sub and box size and the largest I could fit is 10". I have a Polk Audio 10" marine sub in mine (I believe Polk discontinued the MM10). I built the box myself and sealed it properly planning around the cavity and required air space needed for proper reverb. I power it with a 350 watt marine amp. The 6 speakers around the boat are Kicker marines and powered by an 1100 watt Kenwood amp. The only thing I wish I had is an Ipod port. My head unit is an older Kenwood unit with no Ipod port and I think when the time comes to replace it I will go to a new style head. If you want photos Ian I am doing some work on the boat this weekend and will shoot some for you.

[EarmarkMarine]

Gordon,
Any chance that your existing HU is a changer controller? If so there are adapters that will convert the changer input to a clean auxilary input.

David
Earmark Marine

[ian ashton]

Sorry, I misstated Ian. It is under the dash mounted the same way KG's is. I measured for sub and box size and the largest I could fit is 10". I have a Polk Audio 10" marine sub in mine (I believe Polk discontinued the MM10). I built the box myself and sealed it properly planning around the cavity and required air space needed for proper reverb. I power it with a 350 watt marine amp. The 6 speakers around the boat are Kicker marines and powered by an 1100 watt Kenwood amp. The only thing I wish I had is an Ipod port. My head unit is an older Kenwood unit with no Ipod port and I think when the time comes to replace it I will go to a new style head. If you want photos Ian I am doing some work on the boat this weekend and will shoot some for you.

Does it look like this;
http://img.tapatalk.com/62cee705-7494-c14e.jpg

That's a 10" L7 in my Outback :)

[EarmarkMarine]

So what's the little woofer in that photo?

[ian ashton]

That would be Mag's, my 8 pound poodle. We also have Ellie, who is aa 3 pound poodle. Perfect size for a ski boat!

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk

[Inliner]

Does it look like this;
http://img.tapatalk.com/62cee705-7494-c14e.jpg

That's a 10" L7 in my Outback :)

Kind of, but mine took up less space under the foot area. I still have an open pass-through going behind the right front seat with easy access to my wring and steering drive cables.