V Drive advice and boat wanted...

[reitbauer]

I am living in an igloo in Canada and would love some advice as on a V-drive Moomba for my boating family. I have a $30,000.00 ish budget but would love to spend around $25K.

If you have a boat that would meet the following criteria I would love to hear from you as well.

As of today my criteria would be:


Fresh water only
under 200 hours
fits in a 21' garage (inside measurement)
isn't a lemon :rolleyes:


I am not too worried as to bells and whistles but would like a boat that will run great for the (only) 2-3 weeks a year I will get to use it.

Advice on any years, engines etc. to avoid would be appreciated.

[bkearney]

Having just gone through this... I would look for a 2002/2003 LSV. Quality picks up after that, but it seems like they added a foot onto the sizes of evertyhing after that. I would guess at end of season/off season you should be able to get one around 18-20k more or less not including shipping.

[Ed G]

if your garage is 21', how big is the igloo?

[bkearney]

Ice is cheap.. it should be easy to add more garagae space. PLus.. free help from the Moose.

[psycho-heico]

I too live in Calgary, just picked up an 08 LSV out of Kalispell...Here is one just listed today
http://michigan.findanyboat.com/boats/2007-moomba-mobius-lsv-wakeboard-boat.html

[Mikey]

There are/should be options in your price range. Either soon or in Spring,Locally. I have a friend who picked up a LS DD from Martins,this year in that price range . Watch ,Cajiji or the local dealers.

The only concern i have to your request ,is Garage length. Most Vdrive,s except the NEWER Outback vdrive are 21+ feet. Not likely gonna fit in the garage,and garage door heights are also a concern especially with a tower,which most Vdrives have.

[08LSV]

Be sure to look for one that is fuel injected if it is going to sit unused for long periods of time. Carbs are great for power but get all gummed up and the floats absorb the fuel if left sitting for to long. So it can make the ready to go on the first day of season a mess..

[reitbauer]

:rolleyes:
Ice is cheap.. it should be easy to add more garagae space. PLus.. free help from the Moose.

[reitbauer]

Be sure to look for one that is fuel injected if it is going to sit unused for long periods of time. Carbs are great for power but get all gummed up and the floats absorb the fuel if left sitting for to long. So it can make the ready to go on the first day of season a mess..

A couple of other questions I had from all of the helpful posts. Are there any tell tale signs that boats have been run in salt water? I have heard horror stories from boat mechanics about the affects of salt water and accelerated rust. I am also wondering how close NADA guide retail pricing comes to actual sales prices?
I have been looking at this boat but think the shipping cost would kill me to bring it to Western Canada.

http://www.grandpasmarine.com/pre_owned_detail.asp?sid=0453869X9K1K2011J6I36I27J PMQ4064R0&veh=2287921

[reitbauer]

There are/should be options in your price range. Either soon or in Spring,Locally. I have a friend who picked up a LS DD from Martins,this year in that price range . Watch ,Cajiji or the local dealers.

The only concern i have to your request ,is Garage length. Most Vdrive,s except the NEWER Outback vdrive are 21+ feet. Not likely gonna fit in the garage,and garage door heights are also a concern especially with a tower,which most Vdrives have.

I have to get the tape measure out and get the exact specs to the drywall. I am running 21' from garage door to the concrete footing of my garage with 4-6" from footing to drywall of extra room. Tight fit for a 21' I know. I am prepared to remove swim platform and wakeplate for winter storage. With regards to the tower ... aren't most of them fold-able or removable for winter storage?

[reitbauer]

Be sure to look for one that is fuel injected if it is going to sit unused for long periods of time. Carbs are great for power but get all gummed up and the floats absorb the fuel if left sitting for to long. So it can make the ready to go on the first day of season a mess..
You wouldn't happen to know what year-ish Moomba's choice of engines moved from carbs to fuel injection?

[08LSV]

You wouldn't happen to know what year-ish Moomba's choice of engines moved from carbs to fuel injection?

I think it was around 2006. I thought it was earlier than that, but someone posted an engine trouble thread with a 2005 and said it had a carb. The '06 Outback V is 20'6" and if you find one with a swing away tongue on the trailer you may be able to put it in your garage on a diagonal if you take off the swim platform. Of course you probably wouldn't be able to fit a car in there with it...

[reitbauer]

I think it was around 2006. I thought it was earlier than that, but someone posted an engine trouble thread with a 2005 and said it had a carb. The '06 Outback V is 20'6" and if you find one with a swing away tongue on the trailer you may be able to put it in your garage on a diagonal if you take off the swim platform. Of course you probably wouldn't be able to fit a car in there with it...

OK ... what am I missing ... if the boat is 20' 6", has a swing away tongue and I remove the swim platform and "detach" the wake plate, why won't that fit inside of 21'? From most of the trailer tongues I have seen they fold flush with the bow and the boat typically stretches past the back of the trailer.

Doesn't this give me a measurement of under 21'? I am deathly afraid of having an Oh $hit moment when I get my boat home and find I need to stretch my garage to fit it in but my math keeps telling me a 20' 6" boat with fold away tongue should fit no?

[deerfield]

The absolute minimum length for inside the garage is 21' 2". The swing away tongue extends beyond the bow of the boat. In addition, the wake plate extends beyond the stern. So, even though the boat is 20' 6", total span to fit inside a garage is 21' 2". Measured my 2007 Outback on factory trailer, using a Stanley Powerlock tape measure.

[Mikey]

This is why i brought this up. As for the tower folding,Yes it does but there are often height issues just the same. I'm sure someone will chime in on this soon enough. Unfortunetly this is why my 07 Outback DD sits in our back yard. Year round ,unfortunetly..This is the price i have to pay to have a boat like this.

As for the fuel injected ,i believe all boats from 07 on are fuel injected,last year to get carbed motors was 06.
To take the wakeplate off might be a big task to do as well??? The swim platforn is easy,fold away tongue is slightly more than bow of boat. IT's really gonna come down to inches. Also puting in on diagonal,which definetely will wipe out roomfor other vehicles. MEASURE CAREFULLY. Good luck.

[08LSV]

When you find a boat that you think you want ask whoever is selling it to bring it buy and see if it will fit in your garage. Tell them it will make or break the deal. If they want/need to sell it bad enough they won't have problem bringing it over to check for you. Most of the boat owners I know are pretty cool and won't have a problem with it, as for dealers I am not sure. They take people out on the water all the time for test drives so I would imagine they would do it if that's what it takes to sell it. Remember it's a buyers market and your request is not unreasonable so if they won't do it you probably don't want to buy from them.

Also I had a friend back in the day that had this old 18' VIP and the trailer did not have a swing away tongue so he put it in on a diagonal and it still wouldn't fit just by a few inches because of the out drive. He cut a square out in the drywall between the studs, recessed it a few inches to the level of the interior wall and re drywalled it. This gave him the few extra inches he needed to make it fit and it worked great. It was a really easy fix that anyone can do to gain a couple of inches. I have seen people cut a hole all the way through the wall where the out drive was sticking into the food pantry.... LOL! I wonder what his wife thought the first time she opened the door to get some beans....

[maxpower220]

The Outback is a direct drive. It measures 20'6". The older style Outback V was actually 20'8". You will need to find a new style Outback V that measures 20'. Otherwise, the older style Moombas will not fit into your garage unless you angle it into the whole garage.

On my Outback, when folding the tower forward, it extends beyound the front of the boat by 4-6". Stupid design and the most disappointing part of the boat. In fact, I would not have purchased it if I had realized it before my purchase. Having a boat stored inside is very important to me.

[tarkus70]

I have tried to put my OBV into my garage. First is the tower hight when folded it would not fit in a 7' tall door even pushing it with the trailer jack all the way down. I removed the tower and the platform and still could not get it in even on an angle. So I took out the wall between the furnace room and the garage it fit then 22'3" . I have a friend who cut the back out of his detached garage and made it fit his boat. So there are options. And 06 was the last year for carb.

[reitbauer]

Thanks! I appreciate you taking the time to measure out your own boat. I will make sure of my measurements in the garage before I come up 2" short!

[jmb]

I believe '05 was the last year for the carb. My 325 FI was an option that year. If the folding tower is a problem, it will come off. My new shop will have a 12' door. Probelm solved!

[skiyaker]

I have tried to put my OBV into my garage. First is the tower hight when folded it would not fit in a 7' tall door even pushing it with the trailer jack all the way down. I removed the tower and the platform and still could not get it in even on an angle. So I took out the wall between the furnace room and the garage it fit then 22'3" . I have a friend who cut the back out of his detached garage and made it fit his boat. So there are options. And 06 was the last year for carb.

Wait! My 2008 OBV fits in my 7' tall garage door no problem!

[reitbauer]

Wait! My 2008 OBV fits in my 7' tall garage door no problem!

OK ... Now we just have to find me my boat !

[jmb]

I won't have to drop my tower any more with a 12' door. I may want to add tower speakers now. Too heavy to drop before. Had to drop it by myself each time. Had no help.

[tarkus70]

Wait! My 2008 OBV fits in my 7' tall garage door no problem!

Mine is an 06 different boat. Mine sits higher on the trailer. Had a newer one and mine side by side at the dealer.

[tarkus70]

I won't have to drop my tower any more with a 12' door. I may want to add tower speakers now. Too heavy to drop before. Had to drop it by myself each time. Had no help.


That sucks I had to do it several times myself.

[skiyaker]

Mine is an 06 different boat. Mine sits higher on the trailer. Had a newer one and mine side by side at the dealer.

ah I didn't realize they were different- I've heard of malibu owners getting a "lowrider" trailer option to get a boat to fit in a 7' door. As for dropping the tower- I've raised it by myself but never dropped it without somebody spotting me- but that's my excuse for not adding tower speakers and light bar!

[tarkus70]

I ended up putting up a twelve foot high metal carport. No more folding the tower.

[reitbauer]

Huh ... I guess I am not the only one out there with garage issues. Seems to be a very common issue with boat owners. I must say the folding tower adding inches to the overall boat length is not something I considered. Seems like a fairly big design flaw for those of us trying to get boats into a garage less than 24' long and 12' high.
So what I am thinking is that I need to budget for:
1. A boat
2. Garage modifications or roids' and a gym membership to get my pump on to lower the tower.
3. $1-$5K for "unseen" issues and improvements.

Any advice on how "real" pricing compares to NADA Guide pricing? Do I add on the "extras" in the NADA pricing if the boat typically comes with them? (i.e. - do I add the tower as extra if the boat comes with a tower originally?)

Your advice is appreciated and I am getting more confident I will have less "Oh $hit!" worries.

[08LSV]

Any advice on how "real" pricing compares to NADA Guide pricing? Do I add on the "extras" in the NADA pricing if the boat typically comes with them? (i.e. - do I add the tower as extra if the boat comes with a tower originally?)

My opinion is that if it normally comes with those options I would not add extra. A "tower" on a wakeboard boat is kinda like the steering wheel, engine etc., you wouldn't buy one without it... Some boat places even show a lower price and then add on the cost of the trailer at the end... This I think is crazy, which is why I only talk in "out the door" price. Also you have to remember that when you trade a boat in the dealer is not usually going to give you more for everything you added as an upgrade or modification. What I mean is that when an upgrade is added by the owner you usually eat the expense as a convenience for yourself or something that makes the boat more enjoyable for you, but does not generally increase the overall value.

[reitbauer]

My opinion is that if it normally comes with those options I would not add extra. A "tower" on a wakeboard boat is kinda like the steering wheel, engine etc., you wouldn't buy one without it... Some boat places even show a lower price and then add on the cost of the trailer at the end... This I think is crazy, which is why I only talk in "out the door" price. Also you have to remember that when you trade a boat in the dealer is not usually going to give you more for everything you added as an upgrade or modification. What I mean is that when an upgrade is added by the owner you usually eat the expense as a convenience for yourself or something that makes the boat more enjoyable for you, but does not generally increase the overall value.

Thanks.

Anyone have feedback / opinions on what the "Out the door" price should be on this boat? :

http://www.boattrader.com/listing/2003-Moomba-Outback-Lsv-99404000

I will post pictures soon ...

[reitbauer]

1200312005119991200012004

2003 Outback LSV
217 hours
Fresh Water only
Trailer Tongue does not fold
Asking $25,990.00

[08LSV]

I think the trailer tongue not folding would be a deal breaker for getting it into your garage wouldn't it? That being said, I would be looking to get it out the door for an even 20k. But then again I will not buy anything if I don't feel like I am getting the best deal possible.

For instance check this out. A 2008 Outback V with only 100hrs for 28K...... Only 3K more for a 5 years newer boat with half the hours and a bunch of upgrades....

https://forum.moomba.com/showthread.php?16212-2008-outback-v-28-000-Kalamazoo-MI

[reitbauer]

I think the trailer tongue not folding would be a deal breaker for getting it into your garage wouldn't it? That being said, I would be looking to get it out the door for an even 20k. But then again I will not buy anything if I don't feel like I am getting the best deal possible.

For instance check this out. A 2008 Outback V with only 100hrs for 28K...... Only 3K more for a 5 years newer boat with half the hours and a bunch of upgrades....

https://forum.moomba.com/showthread.php?16212-2008-outback-v-28-000-Kalamazoo-MI

Yeah I saw that one. Thanks for pointing it out. I was thinking that it will cost me $2K to get it near Calgary for shipping and I will have to beg and plead with my wife for a couple more $$$. I started with a $20 - $25K budget and added $5K before I even finished my post here.

Sigh ... I did upgrade her house 2 years ago so she kind of owes me. I made one firm demand for the new house (triple car garage) and well I ended up with a double car garage.

Go figure !
:)

[08LSV]

This listing is back up for sale and it looks like a nice setup and its priced right at 20K. The length is probably the shortest you can get, its fuel injected (probably a throttle body, but still fuel injected.). It does not have a swing away tongue by the looks of the picture but you could probably add one for less than $1000. I really have no idea about the price its just a guess but for a 20K boat you could afford to add the swing tongue. It again has less hours than the other 2003 you were looking at and is 5K cheaper. I hope not to offend anyone but I think it looks much better than the first 2003 boat you posted pics of.

https://forum.moomba.com/showthread.php?16188-FS-2003-Moomba-Outback

[reitbauer]

This listing is back up for sale and it looks like a nice setup and its priced right at 20K. The length is probably the shortest you can get, its fuel injected (probably a throttle body, but still fuel injected.). It does not have a swing away tongue by the looks of the picture but you could probably add one for less than $1000. I really have no idea about the price its just a guess but for a 20K boat you could afford to add the swing tongue. It again has less hours than the other 2003 you were looking at and is 5K cheaper. I hope not to offend anyone but I think it looks much better than the first 2003 boat you posted pics of.

https://forum.moomba.com/showthread.php?16188-FS-2003-Moomba-Outback

Thanks for keeping a look out. It doesn't look like a V drive to me though? The price and the specs are dead on what I am looking for but my wife and I have 2 young children we wanted to be able to keep within arms reach in the boat and the DD bump tends to get in the way.

I am going to follow up on this Outback but I am pretty sure it is not the V drive I am hoping for.

Don't worry about offending ... If I didn't want a straight answer I would not be soliciting advice. I have been impressed with the intimate knowledge the Moomba owners on this site have and appreciate most seem to "call it like they see it".

That boat does look pretty darn good at $20K ...

What about the 2003 Outback that I posted concerns you? Is it the price for lack of features or is there something you see in the condition of the boat that concerns you?
I am trying to learn what to look for so I don't have to rely on message boards telling me where I should spend my $25K.

Thanks again.

[T100]

I went through this when I bought my boat in Jan. 2010 with the same budget. I have the same size family and needs out of the boat as you. I ended up finding a 2004 Mobius LSV in Kent Washington for $23,000.00 US from Gonnason Boats. I bought it in January and the price was right at that time of year.
If you can wait till the off season you will get more bang for your buck and a newer boat. I would suggest the 2004 LSV or newer if you find one, have the funds ready at the bank, test drive it and deal a little more on price.
If you want to talk, PM me and we can talk over the phone more about it, Canuckle Head on this site, helped me out when buying and it was a great help. I love talking boats as we all do on this site.
Cheers

[08LSV]

What about the 2003 Outback that I posted concerns you? Is it the price for lack of features or is there something you see in the condition of the boat that concerns you?

My major concern for that one that you found is the age/price ratio. Mainly its just that I know you can get a better boat (more options, less hours) for a minimum of 8K less. I mean heck that's enough to start a good college fund for your kids. Ultimately you are the one that has to like and be happy with your boat and it has to meet your specific needs, we can only offer opinions on what would make us happy or unhappy. As for this Moomba community, it is the best online forum I have ever joined for boating or anything else for that matter. The members are all great and helped me out a ton when I bought my first boat (my current 08'LSV) with every problem I had or upgrade I choose was influenced greatly by the members here.

I did not even notice the other boat did not say Outback "V", so it is probably not. I don't think I could ever have a DD boat either. I have never liked the engine right in the middle of the seating area. I have friends with them and they don't mind the hump but I wind up bumping into it or falling over it all the time. I am really surprised they still make boats like that, maybe they really are better for slalom skiers or whatever but I never learned to use regular skies anyway so it's not for me. Like "T100" said it is definitely better to wait till the middle of winter. You can't use it right away so it kinda sucks, but you will most likely get the best deal, just like buying a house.

[Hoopskier]

I am going to follow up on this Outback but I am pretty sure it is not the V drive I am hoping for.

Thanks again.

I can clear this up right away since its my boat listed in the link. It is NOT a v-drive. It a direct drive. I am looking to make that move to a V. To answer why people would still buy a DD, the big one is price. A DD is less $.

[08LSV]

To answer why people would still buy a DD, the big one is price. A DD is less $.

I had no idea they were cheaper because they were DD. I thought it was just a preference thing like skiers vs. wakeboarders. I guess it makes sense that it is more costly to set up a v drive. Your boat is really nice looking though. It looks like you took good care of it. Why would you sell it, if you don't mind me asking? Is it the engine in the middle of the cabin or just want a bigger boat?

[reitbauer]

:)
Again ... I have no personal relationship with the boat I posted ... we are not sleeping together so no worries of offending me. I am trying to figure out if there is any logical reason that that same boat in my neck of the woods would be listed at nearly $30K. For example an average classified listing in Calgary for a 2006 Mobius LSV with 350 hours is asking $34K!

Boat pricing in Canada has been typically much more expensive than our US counterparts so in my case I could overpay $8K for a boat in the US and still come out OK compared to Canadian pricing.

I would just feel cheap and used knowing I got a good "Canadian" deal while my USA neighbours were laughing at me for paying so much for a boat.

Any advice I have gotten has just added to my ability to not overpay for a used boat. I did have the chance to chat with T100 and he gave me some excellent advice from personal experience bringing a boat back to Canada. He probably saved $8-$9K for not a lot of effort by doing his homework and buying in the USA.

I am just starting my collection of info so make an educated purchase on a boat that fits my needs, don't over pay and fit it in my garage!

I am thrilled to see that T100 purchase a boat he is happy with and would suit my needs for $23 K !

USA ! USA ! USA!
12022

[Hoopskier]

I had no idea they were cheaper because they were DD. I thought it was just a preference thing like skiers vs. wakeboarders. I guess it makes sense that it is more costly to set up a v drive. Your boat is really nice looking though. It looks like you took good care of it. Why would you sell it, if you don't mind me asking? Is it the engine in the middle of the cabin or just want a bigger boat?

There may be other things that affect cost but in general, I have found DD to be cheaper. Just the V-drive unit alone, is not there in the cost and other things required when switching to a V. Not to say a manufacture could not build a ski boat with a v-drive but that is not where the market is at. Also a plus in a skiers eyes, a DD boat is lighter weight thus, less water displacement and a smaller wake.

As for my boat, and the reason to sell it; I am looking to upgrade. Something newer and a V. I am looking for an 08+ LSV, slightly bigger than the OB. Would really like to get the new V2 tower. I have 2 kids and take friends out regularly. We have never found the mid engine design to be intrusive. If using the lower pylon though the rope over the head of rear seat passengers is kind of annoying. Mostly use the tower. The boat has done everything that I would expect and ask of it. Good wake for skiing. Decent for wakeboarding. Never tried surfing. Of course it pulls a tube.

[Mikey]

We as Canadians typically pay more ,due to location etc. A lot of the prices you are seeing especially in certain US States,is mostly due to The Recession and how it is affecting a lot of US residents ,WAY MORE so than Canadians.

Another point that i haven't seen come up is Original pricing on the older boats ,was higher compared to the last few years. For many years it was possible to buy newer boats for equal or less money than a few BAD/Highpriced years.Obviously people that bought boats in the High priced years are trying to recoup as much as possible,from original purchase price.Realistically though,the market has changed drastically and especially due to the recession,There are some Amazing deals ,on used/repossessed boats etc in certain States if you do the research. Just like Houses and properties in Many US States.

[Mikey]

If you are willing to do the research and especially travel to go buy and transport the boats back to Canada,Yes you can save Thousands$$$$$. How bad do you want ANY certain boat is up to you.There are lots of local boats to be had ,just wait and or be patient ,the season is nearly over and lots of deals will begin to appear.

As Mentioned above as well,Vdrives usually are more ,LIKE buying a convertable car, A little more Bling maybe but mostly due to Different Layouts. Good or bad its up to you to decide,what you want or need.

To HARDCORE waterskiers,there is really no comprimise(with a Very few exceptions)DD IS THE ONLY WAY TO GO!!. After that its a comprimise.My DD skis Awesome,surfs and wakeboards adequately,Whos comprimising???. The layout suits me/us. Price is better and DD's Compared to Vdrives Handle MUCH BETTER,especially cornering etc. Like driving a FERRARI vsStock MUSTANG. JUST so as to not piss off all the VDRIVE owners on here. I tryed to make it show VDRIVES handle well,DD's handle Amazing.

[reitbauer]

Mikey

I was curious who you were using in Calgary to service your boat and if you thought they were doing a good job. I went in to Martin Motorsports and the Sales guy I spoke to looked very disinterested when he found out I didn't want to drop $75K on a new Mastercraft.

With Calgary having money again nobody seems to want to give me the time of day if I don't buy a new boat off their showroom floor.

[T100]

This is worth a call!
http://seattle.craigslist.org/est/boa/2589258836.html

[reitbauer]

I am in the process of contacting them right now!

Thanks for the tip and I will let you know how it turns out.

[reitbauer]

Well 624 hours seems a bit high to me. My first thought is I would probably be better off going older with less hours.

As always ...would love to hear everyone's opinion.

They are asking $23K on Craigslist.

http://www.northwestwatersports.com/new_vehicle_detail.asp?sid=02169153X9K14K2011J11I0 2I42JAMQ6840R0&veh=40520&pov=2237880

[kaneboats]

At that price, if they have maintenance records I wouldn't be a bit afraid. Maybe get the dealer to throw in some warranty?

[ryan_8099]

From what I have seen, hours don't matter quite as much as long as the boat was maintained. If this comparison helps, we bought a 2000 Mobius v it 580 hrs for 16,500. It is totally naked, no tower/graphics and the tack/speedo have to be worked on. Besides that, the vinyl is pristine and he took great care of the boat! By the time we had tower, racks, ballast, cover etc we will be up to about 21/22. We have been very happy with the purchase and that looks like a great deal. 7 years newer! That boat has a lot of life left in it

[reitbauer]

At that price, if they have maintenance records I wouldn't be a bit afraid. Maybe get the dealer to throw in some warranty?

Dealer is about 1000 miles away and a MasterCraft dealer. Got the following email from the dealer:

Rick

I took the boat in on trade for a new boat. The previous owner purchased new and lives on the lake with a very flexible schedule and boats a lot. He has had his new boat just a short time and has just over 100 hours on it already.
I haven't been the service stop for the boat as I'm a new MasterCraft dealer. We inspect everything prior to taking in on trade and the boat was solid. My service manager has even taken the boat out a few times for pleasure and said it's great.
I will be honest with you...the boat is In good condition however the back sunpad seams are coming undone. This is very common in Moomba boats especially ones that have been used.


Let me know if you have additional questions. I priced the boat to sell based on everything stated. I'm getting a lot of calls and emails and don't anticipate it lasting long.


Thanks

[jmb]

Mine has 630 hours on it. Maintenance always done on time. Lost an impellar & Thermostat. That's it. Still runs like new