Amp shutting down

[flex]

Dear Audio Gods! Can you please help?

my kicker 700.5 amp is shutting down & is hot as can be to touch. i'm running a sub off the sub channel & one pair of kicker hlcd's on the other four channels in bridge mode. amp 1 & 2 are set to "Hi" & the sub amp is set to "on/sub". batteries are fully charged.

the manual says this amp will handle this set up, but apparently not. i also have a 200.4 that is running the six cabin speakers. should i swtich the cabin & tower speakers around? can the 200.4 handle the hlcd's?

i read Ed's post where he had similar issues. https://forum.moomba.com/showthread.php?t=14169

any suggestions on what to do to fix would be appreciated. swtich speakers around? replace amps, etc?

thanks!!!

[Razzman]

Not the best setup for the Kicker hlcd's, the amp can't really handle the load. Dump the 200.4 and get yourself a 450.2 to drive the towers. Run the cabins and sub off of the 700.5 and you'll be good.

[EarmarkMarine]

flex,
While that Kicker amplifier is a known workhorse you have to consider how demanding the tower speakers are as compared to the in-boats.
I would 86 the 200.4 and switch the the 700.5 to the in-boats. You could even use half the 200.4 to the bow or bridge it to the bow. Six in-boat coaxials with a channel per speaker is heavenly from a cleanliness and headroom standpoint. You will hear a difference with the more conservative operation.
Check voltage at the shut-down point because low voltage compounds thermal issues. And, make sure that the primary supply cable to the 700.5 alone is 4-gauge with a separate 4-gauge supply to the tower amplifier. Verify that you have quality, high gauge terminations and that they are all secure.
Make sure you are running the tower HLCDs at 100 Hz or higher in highpass depending on the pod size you are using.
Btw, you can't run an amplifier bridged into the Kicker HLCDs if you are using the second pair of midbass drivers, which would be a 2-ohm load. You didn't specify this or I may have missed it.
For your next and dedicated tower amplifier I would strongly recommend the higher eficiency of a Class D fullrange amplifier. A Class AB will generate 250 percent more heat to begin with. Kicker and JL Audio have amplifiers to fit the bill and are 60 percent more efficient (just sip current).

David
Earmark Marine

[mmandley]

Flex i have to agree with Dave and Razz, your asking too much of the 700.5 the sub alone is working it pretty hard and then the HLCDs are just jamming it up.

TO save the coin now, take the 200.4 and bridge it to the HLCDs this will power them up and it shouldn't overheat and then you can run the cabins to the 700.5 and i did that my first summer and that amp never shut down and i was pounding on my stereo pretty hard.

Ultimately get the Kicker ZX450.2 or another dedicated 2 channel to run your HLCDs and you will be golden.

[MLA]

Where is the sub chnl gain and Bass-Boost set at on the 700.5? Was the 700.5 factory installed, or replace a factory installed amp? As noted above, if the power and ground cables are inadequate, it can lead to excess heat and thermal shutdown. Also, is the amp mounted directly to a carpeted surface? Putting it on some stand-offs will allow for some additional heat dissipation.

[philwsailz]

Which Kicker tower speakers are you running? KMT6 or KM6500.2?

Also, David and CHP's comments regarding power wire are totally correct. You need to use 4 ga or the amp will overheat. I know this as fact, as another boat builder, (who shall remain nameless, know at least it was a stern-drive builder) who thought he could use smaller wire. I told him he needed 4, but he insisted he could get away with less. The overheating calls started coming in, and he insisted it was the amp's fault. He finally tried the 4 ga wire after a ton of complaints of overheating. Guess what? The overheating issue went away.


Let us know what speakers you are using and I can guide further. Just know that if you have the KMT6 you do not want to run 4-channels in bridge-mode; it will not work.

Phil
Kicker

[flex]

it's the 6500.2 set up with no extra mids. the amp was an addition to run a 10" sub & 4 polk db651's; one ch per speaker. the amp ran fine last year & this yr until i installed the 6500.2.
it is mounted to carpet on wall under the spotter seat.
the wire is 4 ga.
the internal crossover on the speakers is set to 0db.
the gain on the amps are just past the mid way mark; sorry i'm on iphone updated post & not at home to look. i can look this eveing.

let me know if i need to look at anything else.

[philwsailz]

it's the 6500.2 set up with no extra mids. the amp was an addition to run a 10" sub & 4 polk db651's; one ch per speaker. the amp ran fine last year & this yr until i installed the 6500.2.
it is mounted to carpet on wall under the spotter seat.
the wire is 4 ga.
the internal crossover on the speakers is set to 0db.
the gain on the amps are just past the mid way mark; sorry i'm on iphone updated post & not at home to look. i can look this eveing.

let me know if i need to look at anything else.

Okay, hot to the touch is normal, but shutting down means it is working too hard, or it is not getting enough air. You might consider mounting the amp on stand-offs so air can circulate on all sides of the amp. Having it next to the carpet is a lot like tucking the amp in under a blanket... Float it off of the carpet and it will run cooler.

You say the crossover is set to 0 dB. but that is not a crossover setting, so let's double-check things there. On the end of the amp, there are two crossover slide switches for AMP1 and AMP2. Both should be set to HI PASS. Then the crossover frequency knob on the face of the amp needs to be set to at least 80 Hz if not higher. I like 100Hz for this setup most of the time. Now check BASS BOOST for both AMP1 and AMP2. It needs to be totally off....

Your gain setting doesn't sound unreasonable, so make those changes mentioned above, verify settings and see what you get... Now if the amp still cuts out we can do the following:



Historically you ran the amp with a speaker on each channel, (the Polks) and when you think about it, there is no reason not to do the same thing with your KM6500.2's.

You can use AMP1 to drive the mids and use AMP2 to drive the horns. This puts a 4-ohm load on each amp channel just like when you had the other speakers on the amp. This will take it out of bridge mode, and it will draw less current, since each channel will see 4-ohms instead or 2-ohms.

For AMP1, where you are driving the mids, set the crossover to 100 Hz HI PASS. For AMP2 we can crank the crossover even higher, up all the way to 200 Hz. This will really improve power handling and current for AMP2.

Set the gains for AMP1 and AMP2 the same, but know that running this system this way, you can adjust the balance between the horns and the mids by lowering one gain relative to the other. Again, make sreu BASS BOOST is totally off. BASS BOOST should never be on for most tower speaker applications.


I suspect that if you do the first things, you will find the amp is running right, but if not, flip the setup to one driver per channel.

Lastly, we really recommend the ZX450.2 or ZXM450.2 for the KM6500.2's That will allow you to run hard at 4-ohms per channel, (the rated load of the KM6500.2's) and you will still get 150 watts per channel to each side of your tower.


p.s. Ed had a problem with a Kenwood amp shutting down, not a Kicker... :D

Phil
Kicker

[flex]

sorry phil! let me clarify on the crossover i was referring to. it is the built in crossover in the hlcd's. there is a 0db & a 6db setting depending if the horn & mid are in parallel, which mine are in parallel.

i looked at the settings yesterday evening:
amp 1 & 2 are set to Hi
the crossover freq knob was set appx 120Hz. i've adjusted down to 80Hz
i left the gain as is.
the bass boost knob (on face of the amp) was turned up. i've adjusted down to zero.

i'll check it out this weekend & see what happens. if it still cuts out, i'll probably get the zxm450.2.

thanks for the help guys!!!

one more question.....where can i get the amp stand offs? or should i improvise?

[philwsailz]

Phil is correct. I don't have a Kicker amp.

Fully charging both batteries seems to have solved my problem.

Diamond Dave screams across the lake once again.

I wish they all could be California Girls..... :D

[philwsailz]

sorry phil! let me clarify on the crossover i was referring to. it is the built in crossover in the hlcd's. there is a 0db & a 6db setting depending if the horn & mid are in parallel, which mine are in parallel.

i looked at the settings yesterday evening:
amp 1 & 2 are set to Hi
the crossover freq knob was set appx 120Hz. i've adjusted down to 80Hz
i left the gain as is.
the bass boost knob (on face of the amp) was turned up. i've adjusted down to zero.

i'll check it out this weekend & see what happens. if it still cuts out, i'll probably get the zxm450.2.

thanks for the help guys!!!

one more question.....where can i get the amp stand offs? or should i improvise?

Hey flex-

Gotcha on the horn cvrossover, THAT does make sense... :)

On the amp crossover, 120 Hz is not bad, so you could leave it there if you like the way it sounds. Having the bass boost up may be the culprit so turning it down will help.

On the standoffs, you can improvise. Many times we will see a short piece of wood, one that will go from screw hole to screw hole on each end of the amp. Some guys have used short pieces of metal or plastic tube with the screws through them. Small blocks of ABS plastic are sometimes used. The universal theme is that the mounting screws go through whatever the stand-off material is being used. HIt the harwarae aisle of your local home improvement store and see if sometihng catches your eye.

Other will have stand-off suggestions, so take ideas from all and do what makes sense for your applpication.

Let us know how it goes!


Phil
Kicker

[newty]

Anyone address what the ohm or the sub is or if its a single vc or dual vc? That could be creating part of the problem.
Maybe running it at a 1ohm load?

[philwsailz]

Anyone address what the ohm or the sub is or if its a single vc or dual vc? That could be creating part of the problem.
Maybe running it at a 1ohm load?
Newty-


It is a KM6500.2 HLCD tower speaker setup. We know the impedance is 4-ohms and no less.

[newty]

Phil, sorry I meant the "10 inch sub" he mentioned he is running of the off the same amp. Not the HLCD's

[philwsailz]

Phil, sorry I meant the "10 inch sub" he mentioned he is running of the off the same amp. Not the HLCD's

Sorry Newty, my mistake, you are absolutely right! You know, I think we had all totally overlooked it, due to the fact it ran well set up the other way, but you bring up a good point.

Flex, what woofer? respond to Newty's question, and lets make sure the woofer is not contributing to the issue as well...

[rdlangston13]

i used the left over HDPE plastic from building my amp board to make stand offs, worked great

[flex]

Sorry Newty, my mistake, you are absolutely right! You know, I think we had all totally overlooked it, due to the fact it ran well set up the other way, but you bring up a good point.

Flex, what woofer? respond to Newty's question, and lets make sure the woofer is not contributing to the issue as well...

it's a km10. if i recall, it's a single vc. i'll be honest and say i have no idea what that means.

[newty]

If it is a KM10 either 2 or 4 ohm then you should be fine and thats not your problem.

[philwsailz]

Yeah, KM10 is 4-ohms, so it is not causing problem, as long as it is playing... :D

Your sub still works, right flex?

Phil
Kicker

[flex]

Yeah, KM10 is 4-ohms, so it is not causing problem, as long as it is playing... :D

Your sub still works, right flex?

Phil
Kicker

hahaha.....yes it works!! because if it doesn't & i have to spend more $$, i'm gonna owe my wife a more than a couple of david yurman rings.

i have it in a ported box under the helm.

[philwsailz]

hahaha.....yes it works!! because if it doesn't & i have to spend more $$, i'm gonna owe my wife a more than a couple of david yurman rings.

i have it in a ported box under the helm.

Cool. Let us know how it runs after this weekend... Get a status report uploaded. Over and out.... :D

Phil
Kicker

[MLA]

it's the 6500.2 set up with no extra mids. the amp was an addition to run a 10" sub & 4 polk db651's; one ch per speaker. the amp ran fine last year & this yr until i installed the 6500.2.
it is mounted to carpet on wall under the spotter seat.
the wire is 4 ga.
the internal crossover on the speakers is set to 0db.
the gain on the amps are just past the mid way mark; sorry i'm on iphone updated post & not at home to look. i can look this eveing.

let me know if i need to look at anything else.

Gain is a bit too high for my liking. Back them down to the 11 oclock position (not quite half way) if the problem still is present.