Exile Sub Enclosure and Foot Room

[RobertJ]

Hey Exile Guys,

I am hoping one of you with an '07ish LSV and the Exile Sub Enclosure can measure the space from the front of your box to the base of the seat. If you could take a picture with a tape measure on the floor that would be great. I am trying to decide if I want to buy the pre-built enclosure.

Thank you

[mmandley]

Robert im sure Al can take the photo for you or something but the way the prebuilt boxes are designed is measure from the cup holders on the floor.

You will have use of both cup holders so measure from the front edge of the forward cup holder and that is the distance you have left.

Now your feet arnt exactly the normal size LOL. I know my friend Steve who is 6.5 and wears 12s can put his feet there and he says its no issue at all driving as hes my main driver when im not driving.

[Razzman]

I wear size 11 and I got used to it real fast, I don't even notice it anymore. I usually have one foot hanging out in the walkway anyway :p

[RobertJ]

Size 14's :cool:

[KG's Supra24]

Are ya'll saying there is only room for your foot to fit between seat and sub box?!? Meaning no actual legroom?

[mmandley]

KG this is a HUGE box, one of the biggest in the industry. I want to say its close to 3cubic feet. If you want to stretch your legs out in the helm then forget any kinda box unless it fits on top of the Helm.

Now in a Supra theres a lot more room in the helm as its taller and the box can be built up more then out.

In the Moomba it has to be build outward. It covers the hunp, even extends over the hump but it does come forward up to the cup holders.

This is one of the design features i < yes i mean me > made sure was implemented in the box design.

When Brian, Me, and Brett < of sound zero boxes > were designing it i had several limiting factors on the box.

1 Had to be made of something that wont rot as Moomba prides them selves on no wood in out boats.
2 Couldn't pass the cup holders as most of use use them.
3 It had to easy enough the average joe can install it as most of the people buying this will be DIY peeps.
4 The heater system and vents all hard to work

When designing it every possible inch of space was used under the helm. For those who have the box they can tell you its a tight fit. Its a jig saw puzzle peace, it only goes in 1 real way. Once its in its just as hard to get it out. This also makes it a great security feature because no one is stealing it without knowing how it fits or breaking it.

Leg room? No there is no room to stretch your legs. But there is room for your feet. Now scoot the seat all the way back and you have a little room but not like enough to steatch out your legs and relax.

http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu114/mmandley/Picture013.jpg
http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu114/mmandley/Picture014.jpg

[EarmarkMarine]

In a Supra, but unfortunetly not in a Moomba, there is room for a side-firing sealed 12-inch woofer to ride up on the hump and have full leg and foot room under the enclosure and cover facade...all the way to the floor hump.
In a Moomba you can use a direct radiating sealed 12 or 13-inch woofer enclosure that rests against the hump that is very shallow and only consumes 5 inches of depth at the bottom including the facade.
In either case this includes drainage behind and below the enclosure so that moisture isn't trapped and you don't have an eventual mold and mildew problem. Plus, in either scenerio this includes external bracketry so that there are no pass-thru holes made in the enclosure.
You can also use a solvent-base constructed composite board like Medex or MDO that has a 20 year lifespan when used outdoors (used for decades in highway and stop signage).
But, a bass-reflex enclosure is going to consume over 50 percent more space for that extra 3 dB of output and there is no way around that. So you have to sacrifice a little something to squeeze out that extra db or two or three.

David
Earmark Marine

[sandm]

I like that box, and the quality looks top notch from what you can see, but it really looks like it eats up a lot of legroom.

personally, I would want a more solid grill around the sub as well. looks like an accidental smaller foot could get in there.

that being said, have not heard a bad thing about any of the exile products. would love to hear a system in person using their products.

[thesack]

Robertj - I just had Exile build a vented enclosure for their Big15 for my boat. The enclosure is 3.5 cubic feet and comes out to the cupholder. Granted our boats are slightly different but I'll let you know how much foot room I have. And I wear size 14s as well. My boat is at AWS getting the sun deck cushion installed finally (this time correctly).

Sandm - When you make it out this way I'll let you have a listen.

[rdlangston13]

I just ordered the enclosure for my 08 LSV and am looking forward to it arriving and being able to install it. that being said my 08 LSV does not have those driver side cup holders. does anyone know if that is a piece I can order from moomba or will i have to fabricate the cup holders my self? i really enjoy having a beverage while i cruise the lake and not having somewhere to put it is a huge let down!

[sandm]

Sandm - When you make it out this way I'll let you have a listen.

got it in writing :)

I'd love to hear some of brians stuff.

[bzubke1]

Thats really wierd that you don't have those drivers side cup holders I thought all lsv's had em.

[JesseC]

Pardon the ignorance, but why are these boxes so big? Don't most of the new high power subs require very small boxes?

[EarmarkMarine]

JesseC,
Yes, you are so right. Just about two decades ago the woofer technology really improved and subs worked in much smaller enclosures. But, we're talking about large 12-inch woofers here combined with bass-reflex rather than acoustic suspension, which means much larger boxes. Also, these boxes are not unusually large by normal standards. Its just that they are having to adjust to the Supra and Moomba floor humps that steal alot of room and restrict the available depth.

David
Earmark Marine

[JesseC]

I looked at their spec sheets and those volumes just seem really large to me, anywhere from 2-4 cubic feet???? I just put a JL Audio in the truck granted it only does 1000w with 600RMS hits, but it is only in a .625 cubic foot box and it rattles the mirrors in the truck. I really need to hear one of these setups I guess to become a believer. I am planning on putting the same JL in the boat since I can tuck it into such a small box. I like to stretch my feet out (even though I barely hit 5'9"). Many of the super high wattage Rockfords are still in 1-1.5 cubic foot boxes which I ran in my old setup and I had issues keeping the glass latched in the back of the Tahoe.

[EarmarkMarine]

JesseC,
Yes I agree, a 10-inch might be .625 net while a 12-inch might be double that at 1.25 net. Once you convert a 12-inch from sealed to bass-reflex that could enlarge to 1.75 before port volume, port wall, driver displacement and exterior construction. Before you know it you can have an external volume of over 3 cu. ft. for a 12. So those dimensions do seem in line.
But I also agree that you can get great results from the right 10-inch as we do it all the time.

David
Earmark Marine

[Brianinpdx]

Greetings guys -

Here's A few comments about these enclosures and boxes in general. Regardless of what size shoe you wear (size 9.5 here), you need to ask yourself what your woofer goals and strategy will be. Put simply, an 8" woofer or 10" woofer in a sealed enclosure is going to be a slam dunk design / installation wise. They require less materials and generally provide a linear roll off in the bottom end frequency wise. They are also safer from a woofer protection point of view because you do not need to fool around with subsonic filtering. Dont get me wrong, I shouldnt exclude 12"s or even 15"s in the sealed realm. They will give you more and more output although you need a larger and larger enclosure space to house them which becomes a problem under the helm area.

So why all this talk about Vented enclosures? Because of one simple fact--- you gain 3dB of ouput at the the tunning frequency of the enclosure. Not 1, not 1.5 not 2.5, not 10. You get 3Db of increased output which is a LOT! But it comes at a price (literally) as well as strategically... As has been mentioned, the enclosures are larger. We know space is at a premium on a boat. So that could be a problem.

So which method is better---Sealed or Vented?
Simple answer is neither. The 'better' answer lay in the execution and achieving the end result you had in mind.

Here's my cliff notes on making an informed pick.

- Limted budget---> go sealed.
There are just a lot less materials involved.

- Small woofer size--> go sealed.
One could argue, with this point, but my take is, If your going to go to the trouble to do a vented enclosure, maximize it with a 12 or 15 if the space permits. If space is a concern, then optimize with a decent 10" woofer sealed.

- dIY crowd...If you have limited understanding in design / buiding skills--->Sealed.
A few bad calculations on the vented design would have drasticlly bad results on port tuning / perforance etc.

- All out performance--> Vented.
As described above, 3dB advantage @ at the tune freq. and this is especially impressive when powered with a robust amplifier.

Another thing to think about is available amplifier power. If your looking to run a subwoofer from a 5 channel amplifier, you are probably going to be limited to a woofer in the 400W range. In the real world, this usually spells 10" or entry level 12" flavors.

As it applies to the Exile enclosure offerings, we opted to focus on the part of the market that is looking to maximize performance. And that means vented enclosures with a lot of complicated considerations on design, construction and excecution. Heading this direction usually means amplifier upgrades, wire upgraes, and at the very least, woofer upgrades. Trust me, it's not cheap.

The Devil is always in the details. So here you have them: 100% composite construction. enclosure sits .80" off the floor on the moomba for drainage and sits 1.5" on the supras. The vented design on the moomba's is built to go up over the hump and fill that space which allows the enclosure to consume only 8" of space at the bottom including the fascia. The Supra's have ample space in the helm and we are seeing more people asking for vented 15" designs. Yes, MrSack asked us to build him an 18" design and we told him to forget it. There is only so much space to draw upon.

I dont have a video of Sacks exact enclosure. But here's a link to a slightly modified version of his design on a Malibu. It gives you a good feel for how complicated this stuff really is. Supra Big15 Link. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1kFGCqnQMo&feature=player_embedded)

Here's a couple of pictures I snapped of Nates supra last week. sorry for the quality...

http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k491/brianinpdx/Big15box.jpg

http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k491/brianinpdx/boxII.jpg

This setup is not for the faint of heart.

-Brian
Exile Audio

[EarmarkMarine]

You can manipulate a bass-reflex alignment to generate anywhere from zero to plus 5 dB for example. You can add a narrow but substantial peak for maximum output. You might hear this box across the cove, especially at a signature note. Or, you can run a very well damped alignment for less gain and a moderate increase over a broader and more linear (treats all frequencies equal) bandwidth. This box may sound more musical. Or, you can place the emphasis on deep bass extension without any real increase to the peak output. This box might provide deep bass compression but lack midbass transient response. Its up to the designer and his priorities whether sound quality or output. And, sometimes the confines of the available space may dictate the type of alignment you get.
A typical acoustic suspension (small sealed) enclosure will have an earlier bass roll-off but a roll-off that is more gradual. Because of the softer slope the sealed woofer will have deeper extension and greater output at the lowest registers.
A ported enclosure will have a steeper roll-off below its tuned bandwidth. But it can give you a nice increase in an area where there is comparably much more content. A bass-reflex/ported enclosure can be better damped (more output with less excursion) around its center tuning frequency, thus having lower distortion. However, below the tuning frequency the woofer will be more out of control, have greater distortion and lose power handling...to the point it is very vulnerable. Well below the tuning frequency, the woofer and port will be out of phase creating an acoustical short circuit. And that is why a subsonic filter is more important for a ported enclosure.
Everything is a trade-off in one form or another. There is an application for just about any enclosure type including a bandpass enclosure. And similar to a ported enclosure you can turn it into a single note DB monster or a smoother, more linear and musical product. A bandpass may give you 6dB of more output over a good octave and a half with linearity. That's equivalent to four times the amplifier power!

David
Earmark Marine

[EarmarkMarine]

Here is a suggestion or two for anyone removing/test fitting/reinstalling this or other large or complex enclosures.
Use a generous amount of painters' tape on all surrounding surfaces. Lay on two layers. It releases easier and leaves less residue.
Directly over the painters' tape lay on two layers of duct tape because it is much tougher and resistant to a tear. Don't allow the duct tape application to make direct contact with the boat interior surfaces.
This will save the chafing and keep your interior crisp.
If you don't do ALL of your own service then remove the enclosure before the servicing boat dealer has to do any work requiring underdash access. They will typically hammer you for the R&R cost, plus, since they didn't originally install it they could scar the surrounding surfaces before they realize it.
We have a method of using studded mounting pads that are left in place when the enclosure is removed. They feature locator dowels. This means that everything fits back into place exactly as it was originally installed and there are no new holes made in the enclosure that would serve to undo the airtight integrity of the enclosure. The local servicing entities and boat dealers love it too as it makes their job infinitely easier.

David
Earmark Marine

[sandm]

I gotta ask just for my own "ed"ification...

why in the world would you want to loose all that space under the dash - as shown with Nate's set-up?

tend to agree. not sure if it was the right thing to do structurally, but ripping out that hump paid off huge for still maintaining legroom and since I doubt any of these boats will go back to stock, makes sense.

[KG's Supra24]

I would really like to hear one of these if anyone had one in my area.

I used a 12 ported box last summer. Pretty much same setup but not as clean of a finish. It rattled the s#+% out of my dash if I turned it up and left me no leg room. I have playpen bow so no option to put feet in the walkway.

Is there a reason these aren't carpeted? It wouldnt stand out so much.

[thesack]

I gotta ask just for my own "ed"ification...

why in the world would you want to loose all that space under the dash - as shown with Nate's set-up?

It is personal preference as to what you want to accomplish in how your stereo sounds. I use a 15 for a couple of reasons 1) I have had smallers subs in my trucks over the years, but none have ever sounded as good as the 15s I have had in my boat. And 2) The majority of my time spent out on the river is wakeboarding. Depending on who is out with us we ride from 55-85 feet (usually around 75-80), so the desire to get the bass out to the rider is there for me. Using a smaller sub would not allow for the bass to be heard as easily as a larger sub with a vented enclosure.

When I am driving or just sitting in the drivers seat I rarely stretch my legs out. So sacrificing the area under the dash was not a concern to me.


I don't believe I have been in a boat that has one of these speakers installed
Come on out to Oregon and I will gladly take you out. That goes for anyone who is local too.


Is there a reason these aren't carpeted? It wouldnt stand out so much.

It is personal preference. I do not like having so much carpet in my boat, nor how it looks. I would much rather prefer to have a snap out carpet with finished fiberglass and gelcoat throughout the boat. To me it just looks classier. So I elected to have black vinyl instead of carpet.

[sandm]

you really need a 12-15 to get a good solid bass response. look at any cars that are competing on the sound circuit(sq, not db drags) and you'll see 12's. look at any true home theater setup and you'll see dedicated powered subs, most using a 12-15" driver, or if a 10, usually a passive radiator in the 12" size. it's not about being a cocktail cove person, it's about having a balanced system.

sack-totally agree with the snapout carpet statement. wish skiers was this way...

[Razzman]

There's a lot more to this than just "boom boom". It's all about the overall sound and how it blends. With these setups you have audiophile quality if done right that compliments the whole sound experience. As Brian said the added 3dB of ouput is huge in the sound quality, not neccessarily the noise output.

Trying to extend bass to a rider is a big no-no anyway, it would never work and just muddy any sound your trying to project back. This setup is awesome anytime, not just for the cocktail cove. When we are moving the system is playing, maybe blended at various zones but always playing.

IF quality is important to you then this is your setup, if not then stay with a small sealed setup and retain your legroom. Personally I've never used the legroom and really don't miss it.

I wouldn't want carpet on the fascia imo. It compliments the stock dash color for one and extends the color theme perfectly. Carpet would just get dirty and collect all kinds of crap. Personally i think there is such a thing as too much carpet as well. A quick wipe with 303 and the fascia always looks good.

[moombadaze]

Ed, soon you will be on a boat with the "boom boom" speaker

[moombadaze]

Got the new speaker wires ran thru the tower today-what a pain in the arse that is. Test fitted the sub box-thing is huge, now I just need the ups driver to show up with some Exile box's :D

[KG's Supra24]

I agree painted fiberglass looks much cleaner and snap out carpet would be great but that's not what we have. I don't have any black on my dash so I guess it just looked unfinished to me.

Still would love to hear the "quality" difference on a boat. Especially from one of these big 12s or 15s pushing 2500 watts. I only had 600 going to mine and I couldn't blast mine bc I got rattles. I guess if you spend time on the front end fixing all the rattles you are good to go.

Do y'all notice many screws that rattle loose?

[Razzman]

I agree painted fiberglass looks much cleaner and snap out carpet would be great but that's not what we have. I don't have any black on my dash so I guess it just looked unfinished to me.

Still would love to hear the "quality" difference on a boat. Especially from one of these big 12s or 15s pushing 2500 watts. I only had 600 going to mine and I couldn't blast mine bc I got rattles. I guess if you spend time on the front end fixing all the rattles you are good to go.

Do y'all notice many screws that rattle loose?

Nope, no screws loose yet! Never had any rattles either so guess i'm good :p How your setup is done seems to factor in rattles imo. This box is radiating everything out, not up under the dash.

I was pushing mine with only 400 watts last year and it sounded good but was lacking. I'll be pushing it with 1500w this year, Exile Xi1500.1

[kaneboats]

I don't feel the need for the giant sub either and wouldn't give up the foot room cuz I put my feet against the hump all the time. But, I'll also say that having the sub makes your entire system better. If you have the sub your other in-boat speakers can be run high pass and they'll sound much better-- the sub takes care of the lows. I noticed a huge difference when I added the 5 channel amp and went with the sub. Mine fits up on top of the hump and doesn't use any foot room. So I fall in the "in between" camp. I want a sub just not under my feet and I'm not giving up any space for it.

[Razzman]

Just asking about this cause I was always curious as to why people put them big uglies in the boat

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder Ed, I say the same thing about Crocs :p


I guess I just picture you guys pulling up to a marina gas station, Cd's dangling from your rear view mirror, your music loud as hell, makes everybody around you leave and your dash boards are rattling like they are gonna fall out. Boom, boom, boom. :)

You musta been in Mexico recently, or Miami maybe.


I'm not much for hanging out in cocktail coves competing with a boating neighbor for stereo supremacy. To me, the most important thing about the stereo is getting clear clean music to the rider.

I'm not either, my lakes are big enough that i don't have to unless it's our normal boating crowd, then i'm supplying the music anyway for the raftup.


But hey - if that's what floats your boat, go for it!!

Actually fiberglass and foam floats the boat! :p


Always interesting to read about the differences we all share

Now that we can agree on ...

[KG's Supra24]

Razz, it might have been the way mine was set up. It fired to the exterior wall and that was the direction of the ports. I didn't have room for it to fire out. It wasnt alot smaller than what exile is working with and only fit one way. If yall don't have any rattles I REALLY want to hear one. I know earmark makes a big one that takes up no foot room.

[Razzman]

Razz, it might have been the way mine was set up. It fired to the exterior wall and that was the direction of the ports. I didn't have room for it to fire out. It wasnt alot smaller than what exile is working with and only fit one way. If yall don't have any rattles I REALLY want to hear one. I know earmark makes a big one that takes up no foot room.

Yeah i could see where a powerfull sidefire could possiby make it rattle.

[mmandley]

KG the reason Exile doesn't put carpet on the box Fascia is actually because to many boats have different color combos. Then Exile would have to stock all these carpets and cover each fascia as it was ordered and that drives cost up and that's passed to the customer.

The color that comes on it is the color that is on 90% of the Moombas today. There have been a couple people with older Moombas that have a different color dash but when the box was being designed and we agreed to add a fascia for a finished look this is the idea we all agreed on.

When i say we i mean Exile and me because since my boat was the testing ground we tried to mimic as many boats and fittings as possible. I choose the vynal because the dash and side panel would blend in to it. Also since i knew my wet feet would be next to it i didn't want to have to worry about more carpet to clean. Its a form and function deal.

Nate chose a different color due to his liking and Brian will do that if you ask but you may pay addition cost and or take longer to get your box. I wouldn't be surprised if you went and bought a yard of the material you liked and shipped it to Brian he would have his guys install that just for you. Brian is very much for making the customer happy.

[EarmarkMarine]

For anyone who wants authoritive bass but doesn't want to give up the leg/foot room there are countless alternatives that are within a few dB of a ported 12" sub.
You can run a sealed 12.
You can run a 12" with a 12" passive radiator in the same size enclosure as a sealed 12. This is much smaller and within a decibel of the output of a ported 12.
You can run a bass-reflex 10 and depending on your woofer selection it can actually play lower than many 12s.
You can run a sealed 13-inch sub that has a natural resonance in the low 20 Hz range. What you give up in the 50 to 60 Hz region you will gain in the 30to 40 Hz region. Its a totally different experience to have this extra emphasis in the lowest registers.
When you place a speaker against a wall you pick up 3 dB in output toward the lower frequencies. In the corner picks up +6 dB. In the corner and at the floor picks up +9 dB. You won't have quite as much emphasis in a boat because you don't have the extended reinforcing planes as you would indoors.
But you can take advantage of the underdash helm cavity in a way (sidefiring for example) that will use boundary loading and deliver almost as much gain as that of a typical bass-reflex enclosure (+3 dB).
So you see there are many ways to skin a cat.
We've done countless bass-reflex 10s where there was no way we could fully gain the sub. And, we've done a 12" with a 12" PBR where the boat owner (a youthful one at that) came back a day later and ask that we "turn the sub down". Initially it was impressive but getting hammered like that in your face all the time can wear on you and may not be for everyone. Others would have loved it.
Don't automatically discount a smaller sub enclosure. And don't discount what you haven't heard. And don't discount other methods of execution.

David
Earmark Marine

[rdlangston13]

yes lets see some pictures so i can get an idea of how i am going to do this when my stuff finally arrives! im hoping it will get here before friday so i can at least look at it before i have to go back to oklahoma for 28 days

[cab13367]

Hey Exile Guys,

I am hoping one of you with an '07ish LSV and the Exile Sub Enclosure can measure the space from the front of your box to the base of the seat. If you could take a picture with a tape measure on the floor that would be great. I am trying to decide if I want to buy the pre-built enclosure.

Thank you

Here you go RobertJ - 14.25" exactly from the seat base to the subwoofer fascia.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg276/cab13367/70c011e9.jpg

[RobertJ]

Al you are the man. Foot 13 inches from yellow toe nail to calloused heal. I won't put the picture in the post.

I am still on the fence but I might do a sealed enclosure.

[valleywine]

What's the cost and delivery time for this moomba box? Anybody know?

[jmvotto]

They stopped making them I believe and a custom shop out of the pnw, does them locally.