Question!!! cabin amp and speakers

[rjgaumer]

Hi there guys,

I have 6 beautiful db651's ready to be put in and also a pioneer 760 2 channel amp. I have decided after talking to a few of you that i am going to be running the rear 4 speakers off the amp and the bow speakers off the hu. will this be a good install? How should i go about wiring the speakers?

Thanks!!

rjgaumer

[rjgaumer]

oh and here are the specs on the amp:

https://www.store.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Car/Amplifiers/GM+Series/GM-5400T

[MLA]

Although a 4chnl would be optimal for running 6 in-boats, if it were I, using what I had, I would run 3 speakers per chnl wired series/parallel. This would be a 2.6 ohm per chnl load, and net each speaker about 60+ watts each.

That's less then the a pair per chnl will receive, but IMO, better then leaving a pair on the head-unit.

[rjgaumer]

is that 60 rms to each? or max?

[MLA]

is that 60 rms to each? or max?

If i looked at the right 2 chnl Pioneer, then yes, 60 watts rms to each speaker.

[rjgaumer]

so that should be good for the db651's then. correct? i am a complete door knob when comes to wiring audio equipment. is there any way you could make a diagram in the paint program or any other program and post it?

thanks a ton!

[MLA]

so that should be good for the db651's then. correct? i am a complete door knob when comes to wiring audio equipment. is there any way you could make a diagram in the paint program or any other program and post it?

thanks a ton!

That's good respectable power across the board for 6 in-boats.

I probably have one somewhere, but I could probably redraw it quicker then I could find it ;)

[rjgaumer]

ok great. can you just describe how the speakers are going to be connected?

[MLA]

ok great. can you just describe how the speakers are going to be connected?

3 speakers per chnl: 2 wired in series, then they are wired in parallel with the 3rd.

[EarmarkMarine]

MLA,
How would you address the inequity in power as distributed to the speakers so that you would have equal amplitude from all six speakers? Seems like the bow would play louder than the cockpit.

[MLA]

MLA,
How would you address the inequity in power as distributed to the speakers so that you would have equal amplitude from all six speakers? Seems like the bow would play louder than the cockpit.

Close the windshield! ;)

As noted, I feel this is a decent option with what there is to work with. I also do not feel that 3 identical speakers wired in this fashion will yield a noticeable difference. What are your thoughts?

[rjgaumer]

im clueless im waiting for our audio expert to chime in here!! where are you guys?!?!

[cab13367]

Hi there guys,

I have 6 beautiful db651's ready to be put in and also a pioneer 760 2 channel amp. I have decided after talking to a few of you that i am going to be running the rear 4 speakers off the amp and the bow speakers off the hu. will this be a good install? How should i go about wiring the speakers?

Thanks!!

rjgaumer

I would personally buy a 4 or 6 channel amp to power the 6 cabin speakers but if you have made up your mind, then this is how you would wire the speakers:

Run a speaker wire from the port side rear speaker #1 "+" terminal to the amp. Run another wire from the port side rear speaker #2 "+" terminal to the amp. At the amp, twist the two wires together and connect it to the left channel's "+" terminal. Repeat for the "-" terminals. Repeat for the starboard side, connecting the starboard side speakers to the right channel.

Wire your bow speakers to the head unit as normal.

Hope that helps.

Al

[rjgaumer]

perfect. thank you so much!!

[rjgaumer]

how many ohms would that be to the db651's? also how many watts?

[MLA]

I would personally buy a 4 or 6 channel amp to power the 6 cabin speakers but if you have made up your mind, then this is how you would wire the speakers:

Run a speaker wire from the port side rear speaker #1 "+" terminal to the amp. Run another wire from the port side rear speaker #2 "+" terminal to the amp. At the amp, twist the two wires together and connect it to the left channel's "+" terminal. Repeat for the "-" terminals. Repeat for the starboard side, connecting the starboard side speakers to the right channel.

Wire your bow speakers to the head unit as normal.

Hope that helps.

Al




perfect. thank you so much!!

If you go the above route, then wire the bows to the head-units front chnls and use the H/U's "Rear" RCA output for your amp. This will allow you to fade back to the cabins when you want to crank the volume. This will help minimize the clipping to the under-powered bow speakers.

[rjgaumer]

ok thats great to know also. do you know the answer to the question above that?

[MLA]

how many ohms would that be to the db651's? also how many watts?

The speakers are the Ohm's load placed on the amp, no ohms to the speakers, only wattage. Your amp delivers 190 watts x 2 rms with a 2 Ohm load, so 95 watts to each speaker.

[rjgaumer]

and thats ok even though the db651's are 4 ohm speakers?

[MLA]

and thats ok even though the db651's are 4 ohm speakers?

yes, because 2 4 ohm speakers wired together in parallel is a 2 Ohm load. With a pair of 4 Ohm speakers wired in parallel on a single chnl, they split the amp's 2 Ohm output.

the amps output has no bearing on the speakers impedance (ohm), but the speaker(s) impedance has a bearing on the amps output.

Hopefully those audio experts will hurry up and get here, Im running out of BS to make up :-P

[rjgaumer]

well what your saying sounds good! i will soon be putting it to the test!
Thanks again for all the help man.

[cab13367]

MLA's responses are spot on. The speakers are 4 ohm speakers and that does not change. What does change is the resistance that the amp "sees". Wiring two speakers in parallel halves the resistance that the amp sees and therefore, is able to deliver more power than if wired to one speaker at 4 ohms. However, this power is shared by two speakers so each speaker gets half the output.

[cab13367]

If you are interested in learning more about speaker wiring, ohms, and impedance, I strongly encourage you to read and re-read the link below until you understand what is going on. This really helped me out.

http://www.termpro.com/articles/spkrz.html

[mmandley]

Just a thought here also.

You wont have to fade the Bow speakers so they don't get distortion or such because when you crank the deck up it will be giving the same 50% or 75% output to this bow speakers as it gives to the amps. The difference is the amp will be louder due to more power output.

Just make sure you listen to the bow speakers and figure out the maximum output you can turn your deck up before you are damaging the speakers.

The nice thing is you can use the gain and fader to match your cabins output or make the cabins play much louder then the bow so you don't damage the bow speakers with distortion.

exp Your deck is at 75% and your bow speakers are sounding like dog do because the deck is maxed but you want more jam. Turning the gains up on the cabin will give you more output and as long as the amp isnt seeing distortion from the deck then you can turn the gains up to get more power off the amp. Then you can turn the deck down slightly to clean up your bow speaker sound and still jam in the cabin area.

[EarmarkMarine]

Ultimately a four-channel amplifer is the way to go to power the six in-boat speakers.
You can run the bow speakers off the source and the four cockpit speakers off the two-channel amplifier. There are issues. The source unit will clip very early and way before you reach the potential of the amplifier. To offset this you can gain the amplifier up but that makes the volume control very sensitive with minimal sweep and raises the noise floor on the amplifier. Obviously the bow speakers will never compete in amplitude. Also, depending on where you are going with your system, this scheme can circumvent the ability to have fully isolated or at least convenient zone controls between the in-boats and tower.
In the series/parallel scheme that MLA mentioned you would have an inordinate amount of power going to the bow speakers in comparison to the power that is divided between the seriesed cockpit speakers. Placing a 10 or 12-step autoformer on just the bow speakers (which are in parallel with the seriesed cockpit speakers) will correct the impedance and bring the bow into balance with the cockpit. This stereo device modifies the impedance and power flow (amplitude) by a magnetic means and therefore generates little to no heat or waste. Once adjusted you can hide it away permanently or leave the knob exposed if you have people in the bow that want the level reduced.
You can even place the controller in the bow for the use of the bow occupants.

David
Earmark Marine

[kaneboats]

If you are interested in learning more about speaker wiring, ohms, and impedance, I strongly encourage you to read and re-read the link below until you understand what is going on. This really helped me out.

http://www.termpro.com/articles/spkrz.html

Thanks for this one Al. I need to read up on this stuff.

[cab13367]

Thanks for this one Al. I need to read up on this stuff.

Welcome. I know it really helped me out.

[cab13367]

Ultimately a four-channel amplifer is the way to go to power the six in-boat speakers.
You can run the bow speakers off the source and the four cockpit speakers off the two-channel amplifier. There are issues. The source unit will clip very early and way before you reach the potential of the amplifier. To offset this you can gain the amplifier up but that makes the volume control very sensitive with minimal sweep and raises the noise floor on the amplifier. Obviously the bow speakers will never compete in amplitude. Also, depending on where you are going with your system, this scheme can circumvent the ability to have fully isolated or at least convenient zone controls between the in-boats and tower.
In the series/parallel scheme that MLA mentioned you would have an inordinate amount of power going to the bow speakers in comparison to the power that is divided between the seriesed cockpit speakers. Placing a 10 or 12-step autoformer on just the bow speakers (which are in parallel with the seriesed cockpit speakers) will correct the impedance and bring the bow into balance with the cockpit. This stereo device modifies the impedance and power flow (amplitude) by a magnetic means and therefore generates little to no heat or waste. Once adjusted you can hide it away permanently or leave the knob exposed if you have people in the bow that want the level reduced.
You can even place the controller in the bow for the use of the bow occupants.

David
Earmark Marine

jrgaumer,

The take away from this is that you should really get a 4 or 6 channel amp and do this right the first time.

Al

[KG's Supra24]

And I have the factory 4 channel pulled or of my boat and would be interested in selling.:p

[rjgaumer]

KG

what are you looking to get for that amp?

[KG's Supra24]

Pm me an offer and we can prob work something out.