View Full Version : Water trapped between hull and ski locker subfloor
moombadaze
02-17-2011, 03:38 PM
I wish I had thought about useing this water in the hull to my advantage-Never thought to use that as a excuse to the wife to upgrade to a 2011 LSV
Sea N' Things
02-17-2011, 03:45 PM
No real advantage to go from the 2010 to the 2011 Moomba LSV, the only upgrade that will be worth while is a XLV or a Supra.
kaneboats
02-17-2011, 03:56 PM
I don't see the advantage of going from your '08 to an '11 either. The ballast system would be better but you have already modded that anyway and a bunch of other stuff is done or on the way. What do you have -- about 110 hrs. on that blue baby?
Sea N' Things
02-17-2011, 03:59 PM
I agree your 08 is just fine so put a little cream on that nasty itch and enjoy :)
moombadaze
02-17-2011, 04:09 PM
. What do you have -- about 110 hrs. on that blue baby?
130hrs and am thinking about redoing that frankenstein fillin system
kaneboats
02-17-2011, 04:13 PM
Really? I'm thinking about cutting another hole in mine but I really only fill the 400 up front and the surf bag so with two pumps running I'm not sure I really care.
moombadaze
02-17-2011, 04:22 PM
Yep, I really hate the system I ended up with-pisspoor planing on my part. Been talking with wakemakers a little about the reversible pumps-if I end up with those 1100lb bags I want to be able to surf both sides and will want to do the IBS so would do 4 reverseible pumps.
brain_rinse
02-17-2011, 04:27 PM
Yep, I really hate the system I ended up with-pisspoor planing on my part. Been talking with wakemakers a little about the reversible pumps-if I end up with those 1100lb bags I want to be able to surf both sides and will want to do the IBS so would do 4 reverseible pumps.
DO IT! With those monster 1100s you'd need both fast fill and drain. That would be a super clean install too...
moombadaze
02-17-2011, 04:35 PM
DO IT! With those monster 1100s you'd need both fast fill and drain. That would be a super clean install too...
Mathmatically im at 3200gph fill right now, but thats only to fill one surf bag. Its ugly but works for one bag only and thats the problem-I want to be able to surf both sides myself and if someone else wants to surf goofy they cant.
KSmith
02-17-2011, 06:31 PM
Well guys, just had a GREAT conversation with John at SC, he has assured me that this issue has been fixed from 09 forward. Since 09 they changed the adhesive and fitting process between hull and deck. Guess I'm in the clear but will follow to see if any 09,10 or 11's have problems. Just to be on the safe side I will also be adding an inspection/access plate to keep an eye on things down there.
Unless the floor in the ski locker starts to sound like sloshing water underneath it, I wouldn't add a hole where water could then get in. You could introduce the problem yourself, and that would be bad. If it is sealed as they say on the 09 and newer hulls, I wouldn't cut an access hole. But that's just me :-)
Sea N' Things
02-17-2011, 07:01 PM
No cutting for me either. Not going to go there.....
Dude you may have a change of tune when it's minus 30 in Alberta and your boats belly is "maybe" full of water.
Sea N' Things
02-19-2011, 11:39 AM
Boat is in Kelowna /Summer Land right next door to you :D. My in-laws live on Swan Lake so we do alot of boating on Kal and Okanagan as well as the Shuswap. Maybe i'll see you around....i'll be out for a sea trial on April 15
spyder
04-02-2011, 05:54 PM
just went in to the garage to see how the boat is doing. checked the hole in the ski locker and it's still soaked in there after being open all winter.. (of course it was below freezing in the garage, so it most likely didn't have an opportunity to dry)
any suggestions of getting it significantly dryer before patching up the fiberglass?
Razzman
04-02-2011, 08:08 PM
just went in to the garage to see how the boat is doing. checked the hole in the ski locker and it's still soaked in there after being open all winter.. (of course it was below freezing in the garage, so it most likely didn't have an opportunity to dry)
any suggestions of getting it significantly dryer before patching up the fiberglass?
Don't patch it up as you'll more than likely get more in there. Add an access door like many have done then you can use a shop vac to suck it up.
spyder
04-04-2011, 11:18 PM
Don't patch it up as you'll more than likely get more in there. Add an access door like many have done then you can use a shop vac to suck it up.
my hole is closed to the front of the locker.. i was thinking of patching it up and cutting a new hole near the back for an access port.
Spyder, is the hole from the water freezing?? If so, is there more guys out there that this has happened to?
spyder
04-06-2011, 02:50 PM
Spyder, is the hole from the water freezing?? If so, is there more guys out there that this has happened to?
you know what? i don't know.. i posted pictures of the hole a page or so ago if you're interested..
i had never taken that mess mat out before from under the fatsac, i lifted it up to find a small hole in the fiberglass... and a lot of water had gone into it .. including antifreeze mixed water from winterizing..
Razzman
04-06-2011, 04:07 PM
Spyder, is the hole from the water freezing?? If so, is there more guys out there that this has happened to?
It's a known issue and there's plenty out there with the issue. Search the sight and you'll find 'em.
I'm aware of the water under the locker, I was referring to how many more boats have holes from the water freezing under the locker. ????? And maybe holes that are not visible. ????
spyder
04-07-2011, 05:59 PM
all I can say is take out your bags and that mat and look around...
jmvotto
05-14-2011, 10:30 PM
where did you guys get the 4" inch covers. finally got to the bow today to look at the heater project and the ski locker had some surface water at well as under the gas tank. I thought no big deal. i cleaned it up, pulled the bag and mat, walked on the ski locker floor and water started spurting though a couple 1/8 inch size holes. ads me to the list....:mad:
i will post my video later once it hits photobucket
Razzman
05-14-2011, 10:39 PM
where did you guys get the 4" inch covers. finally got to the bow today to look at the heater project and the ski locker had some surface water at well as under the gas tank. I thought no big deal. i cleaned it up, pulled the bag and mat, walked on the ski locker floor and water started spurting though a couple 1/8 inch size holes. ads me to the list....:mad:
i will post my video later once it hits photobucket
Waterproof Deck Plate for $10.16 (http://www.shipstore.com/SS/HTML/BEC/BECDP40B.html)
More at West Marine (http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SiteSearchView?Ne=2010554&beginIndex=0&langId=-1&storeId=11151&page=CategoryDisplayLevel1&N=+710+2010554&catalogId=10001&pageSize=10&sType=SimpleSearch&viewTaskName=SiteSearchView)
jmvotto
05-14-2011, 10:58 PM
Thanks Razz,
Here is the video i promised
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inzQ6zckvBI
They have deck plates at Academy if you have one of those nearby.
Grant M
05-15-2011, 03:50 PM
Looks like you have a gusher there - Black Gold, Texas Tea??? :rolleyes:
Going to pull my 06 LSV out of storage this week and among other things she's getting a removable deck plate too...
kaneboats
05-16-2011, 11:01 AM
I removed that nastymat and threw it away last year. I cleaned the ski locker and put a plug in it. The plug popped out and it was all wet so I cleaned/dried it again last week. This time I remembered to walk on it to see if it is soft or anything. Mine's as firm as any other part of the floor. We'll see if it stays that way.
jmvotto
05-16-2011, 11:27 AM
Mine was pretty dry until we took some rollers over the bow for the first time last year.. the price you pay to surf....:D
spyder
05-20-2011, 06:09 PM
anyone have a photo of the access port installed? did you just silicone and screw the port into your fiberglass? not sure on the installation procedure..
KurtL
05-22-2011, 06:48 PM
I posted a thread in 9/08 on this very topic. Two of the members posting on this thread were part of the discussion. So my boat has had the issue since new in 08.
Took it out of storage at the lake yesterday and brought it home 35miles. The ski locker had water in it(no it did not rain on the way home). Like everyone else push on the floor of the locker and water noise is heard. Have had it winterized at the local dealership every year.
So Skiers Choice, I love my boat. When we got a dealership here I talked the brand up to everyone (and still do).
Seems like these issues are particularly prominent in 2008 Moombas( some other years as well):
1) water under the ski locker
2) trailer (Boatmate) axles failing
3) swim platform bracket issues
I understand things happen. However when they happen repeatedly there is design, manufacturing oversite.
Could Skier's Choice possibly show some good will by offering to have dealerships inspect these areas free of charge to put the owners at ease?
It would be nice to get back to talking about how much we really love our great preforming, great value Moombas!
skiyaker
05-22-2011, 08:55 PM
Well you know me- I'll take any opportunity I can have to interact with the nasty mat so I just went out to the garage, pulled it up and jumped up and down in the ski locker. I couldn't detect a problem but the floor is solid enough I'm not sure I could tell for sure. What do you think is the maximum amount of water that area can hold? Next thing you know my boatmate trailer will fail and they'll say it's because of the extra weight in the hull of the boat which according to SC isn't a problem.
jmvotto
05-22-2011, 10:39 PM
My nasty mat is going out in the trash in the morning... Any pros to keeping that thing...
Should be cutting my deck port as soon as I get the heater core mounted... Hopefully this week.
newty
05-23-2011, 10:06 AM
I've been avoiding this thread because I thought it was the first thread (and I don't remember who) installed the little 2" plug in the ski locker so he could vacuum out the water. I didn't realize this was another thread and how long it had gotten nor how big a problem this has become.
That being said you can almost certainly add me to that list.
I know that is flotation foam but... why not just pull it out and make a bigger locker for ballast. You could have a bag made for that and easily get another 300lbs in the nose.
Got lemons?!?... Make lemonade!
moombahighrider
05-30-2011, 07:46 PM
Hey guys, I am officially on the list too. I have vacuumed out at least 8 gallons, if not more.
I first drilled a 4 inch hole above the low point in the hull and got quite a bit of water off the top surface of the foam. Not so much down low near the hull, but the foam was really thick in that area. I messed with that area for a while and did not get anymore water seeping through after the initial vacuum.
I stepped on the floor up as far forward as I could in the ski locker and there was a ton of sloshing! I decided to drill a second hole up towards the bow. There was stacks of standing water and the foam was floating. I could push it down and water streamed out of the hole. This is where the majority of the water that I vacuumed came from.
I still had sloshing halfway between the two holes. I figured WTH, let's do a third hole. I am here, let's get it all. More water and a good amount too. As it stands, this is where I am continually vacuuming water from on a regular occasion.
Now that the majority of the water is out, the ski locker floor is a lot stronger feeling already as it has dried out. I have ordered watertight deck plates to install, so I feel good about not introducing more areas for the water to get in than is already there.
Sorry for the long post, but I thought you guys should know to look further than just the one hole to vacuum the water. I would suggest the middle hole as the most effective spot, at least is has been for me.
WaterBullDawg1980
05-30-2011, 08:24 PM
So the third hole you drilled was in the middle of the other two?
What are you using to drill and how deep are you having to insert the vacuum to get all the water out?
Finally, where did you order the deck plates from?
rdlangston13
05-30-2011, 08:30 PM
I choose to not worry about the hole. SC choice says its not a problem and if my boat sinks, well thats what insurance is for.
moombahighrider
05-30-2011, 08:40 PM
From bow to stern, the holes are in a row about 18- 24 inches from each other. The deck plates are black in color and are a watertight, twist lock model from overtons.com.
I used a 4 1/4" hole saw to drill. I just went through the fiberglass with the hole saw, which is not hard as the water had saturated it. The glass hardens up nicely once dry.
In the hole furthest back towards the stern, the water came from the top of the foam mostly. I did cut the foam out down six inches or so to the hull, but it was pretty dry there. In the middle hole, there was a lot of water at the top of the foam, but also a lot down about five inches, where the foam meets the hull. This is where is am finding more water as the foam drys out. In the hole closest to the bow, I got water from all around the foam, top and bottom, side to side, lots of water! It has since been dry as the middle hole is lower and any water is draining to that location.
moombahighrider
05-30-2011, 08:52 PM
Rdlangston, I wish i could take you're stance, but I have my daughter on board as well as my wife and countless other friends, usually. I refuse to ignore something like this, especially when I know that there is so much water in there that I can't access and deal with. The potential for a problem cannot be ignored, imo. SC should deal with this, but seeing as they aren't, it just means one more thing that I have to be attentive to.
gotta love boat ownership! The things we do to have a good time, huh?
WaterBullDawg1980
05-30-2011, 08:53 PM
Thanks for the update. I'm going to do the same thing to mine tomorrow.
ughh.....
moombahighrider
05-30-2011, 08:57 PM
Good luck! It is actually not that big of a deal in the end. I would suggest starting at the stern end of the locker and then moving to the middle section. You may not have to go further forward than that, if you have a similar setup to what I had. Every boat and situation is different, i am sure. hope it goes well.
jmvotto
05-30-2011, 10:54 PM
i assume i can just drill mine close to where the deepest part of the hull is?
my video was squirting out from the bow end of the locker because the boat was tipped down due to the driveway being pitched.
rdlangston13
05-30-2011, 11:03 PM
There are probably thousands more moomba owners that have this same issue but have no idea. Until I start hearing about people sinking because of this or major damage then I am not going to fret over it. 8 gallons of water is what 70 lbs? meh, not enough for me to start drilling holes to vaccumm it out lol
jmvotto
05-30-2011, 11:13 PM
I would not want a mold break out in the boat from water trapped in the hull. the locker smells bad enough as it is.. a dry boat is a safe boat....:D
cab13367
05-30-2011, 11:25 PM
moombahighrider,
Up until now, we were all assuming (hoping) that the space under the ski locker was one continuous cavity so that we just have to drill one hole at the hull's lowest point and we could get all the water out that way. Your findings contradict this so it's now not as simple as just drilling one hole. I am on the fence as to whether I want to get that water out or not. I assume it's been in there since I bought the boat new and it has not hurt anything (I look at it as additional ballast :) ), and there is no odor that I can detect even when I stick my head in the ski locker. And I store my boat in a heated garage in the winter so the water is not going to cause any freeze damage.
Al
moombahighrider
05-31-2011, 01:01 AM
Al,
I had not considered a partition in the area under the ski locker. I suppose there could be one there, but I do doubt it. I did have some water in the first hole, but it was at the surface. The foam consistency was much more compact and completely filled the void from hull to the bottom of the locker. It seemed to have expanded completely in that area and then the excess foam expanded as far as it could up towards the bow. I found the end of the foam at my third hole up at the bow end of the locker. I assumed that what water travelled toward the stern, did so only on the surface of the foam under the locker. It seemed like the bulk of the water was blocked by the foam completely filling the void. I realize that this may not make sense, and maybe a partition answers that issue. I do not recall seeing any signs of a partition in the manufacturing photos, I will have to go back and look again.
I may send one of my glow rods (fish rods for av wiring) between the cavities to verify.
Thanks for the input.
Simon.
moombahighrider
05-31-2011, 01:07 AM
Jmvotto,
I assumed the same thing, but did not get the return I was looking for until I drilled the additional hole/s. I would go ahead with that first hole anyway, as you will always wonder what water is there. Maybe the water will travel toward the stern if you lift the tongue of the trailer better than mine did?
NCSUmoomba
06-02-2011, 09:18 AM
I am going to play devils advocate here, I guess.
First off, my boat does have a similar issue, although my 2001 Outback DD does not have a ski locker. The only way I discovered the water was when I cut open the floor to move the batteries under it. (Check my Ruby Roo mods thread for photos.) I didn't think it was a big deal. When you have an Outback, you just get used to it being soaking wet all the time, especially with 1000+ pounds of ballast.
Anyway, I think it is rather naive to expect our boats to remain bone dry everywhere, all the time. Uhhh, it's a boat. It lives in the water. The engine is cooled by water. We get in the boat dripping wet. It rains. We have coolers full of melted ice. We have ballast systems that pump water directly into the boat. Boats get wet, period. And the water gets everywhere. Facts of life.
I also think it is rather ridiculous to expect Skier's Choice to pay to "repair" our boats, because "OMG, there is water down there!" And to say, "I'm going to sell my boat and never buy another Moomba because of this" is just childish. Although, if you can find another boat built better for the same amount of money, then knock yourself out.
By the way, those factory tour photos that were posted/linked to were ones that I took on my tour. I was very impressed with the factory and the cleanliness and the thouroughness with construction. I think they do a tremendous job up in Maryville, given their goals and what they are working with. They are trying to build an economical boat, that even though is designed by engineers, it is not built by them, it is built by factory workers.
As an architect, I am faced with this issue everyday. My design team of architects, engineers, and cosultants (who are highly educated) bust our tails to design a project and generate the documents for the construction. We have hundreds of pages of documents that are all interconnected with, and reference to, each other. When we go out to a jobsite, what do we see? Some laborer, who is usually not from this country and may not speak English, with ONE page of the documents, trying to complete some complicated task. It is absolutely amazing any building gets built anywhere close to properly!
If we want a boat designed and built by perfectionist engineers and expert top level techs, then prepare to pay more, WAY more. And I venture to say, that it would be very hard to notice the difference in the two boats, especially without dissecting them.
Although, since NASA is being shut down, I bet there are some high level engineers that will be looking for work?
Okay, I will step down off of my soapbox now.
kaneboats
06-02-2011, 09:53 AM
Well said. But, there should still be a drain to let the water out of the boat. The newer models have this. My 2000 OB had one. The one at the rear of my LSV is too high to ever let anything out, even parked on a hill.
jmvotto
06-11-2011, 10:16 PM
Finally got it done, so far just a half gallon of water came out. The obv is pretty shallow. Glad i did it.
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh254/jmvotto/IMAG0225.jpg
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh254/jmvotto/IMAG0227-1.jpg
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh254/jmvotto/IMAG0229-1.jpg
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh254/jmvotto/IMAG0237.jpg
skiyaker
06-11-2011, 11:07 PM
JV nice repair.
1/2 gallon doesn't sound too scary but man that foam looks soaked- I'm thinking if the air cells in the foam are soaked then that's a bad thing for buoyancy but likely not a problem unless you do something mindless like put 12 people in the bow of your boat and then gun it if a few fall over the bow.
If my ski locker floor feels firm and I don't hear sloshing do you think it's safe to say that I don't currently have this problem? I mean did the problem seem pretty obvious to you- it looked that way from your video
jmvotto
06-12-2011, 06:42 AM
It was very obvious once i pulled the bag and the nasty mat. Last summer was the first time i took rollovers over the bow. Hence the water under the locker. I used a drywall saw to cut the foam. It was wet but still hard. Also i used a drill pump to get the water out. I will recheck today.
moombahighrider
06-18-2011, 11:12 PM
Some of you may know that the question previously came up of whether there was any sort of divider under the ski locker floor. I was finally able to install my deck ports, and I had drilled three separate holes, as I could not get to all the standing water without doing so.
While I was in there, I used one of my AV fish/ glow rods to connect the dots, so to speak. I can assure you that there is no divider under there at all.
The majority of the water under my ski locker floor was about 18 inches or so towards the bow from the rear ski locker wall. In my situation, the foam is obviously thick enough to stop the water from traveling all the way back to where the hull returns upwards toward the area of the fuel tank, etc.
Just an FYI for those of you interested (i.e.- Al/Cab)
cab13367
06-18-2011, 11:23 PM
Thanks for that update!
Rusten
07-13-2011, 10:55 AM
I recently upgraded to a Supra Launch 21V (2005 model).
You can add me to the list. I had the same problem, but did not find the thread prior to my attempt to deal with it.
In my case, I noticed that a shop-vac hose would fit air-tight in a 1.75" hole. I drilled that out, and inserted the shop-vac, then let it run for about 15 minutes, removing the hose occasionally, to be sure that the water was not plugging the hose.
I do not feel I am getting all of the water because the foam remains soaked.
What concerns me is *not* the minor amount of extra weight in the boat, that some here have mentioned. I am more concerned with the added tongue weight, which is already greater than any other boat I've owned. I also do not like the idea of permanently stored water that can spawn mold/etc. If there is some method for the water to get in, however tight, there is a method for mold-spores/etc to get back out.
Thanks to everyone who has participated in this thread so that I didn't think I was imagining things, or that my boat was somehow flawed different than others, and saving me from wasting any of my time asking SC about this, only to be shot down!
louisiana21v
07-16-2011, 08:00 PM
Add me to the list too. 2005 Supra 21V. I found the water about 2 years ago, and after having the dealership get it out and then repairing their hole it filled up again. I put in a 6" access pannel and just vaccume out the water. I was pretty upset about all this at first but have kind of let it go. Nothing is perfect and I still love my boat and wouldn't get rid of it.
mk_deuce
07-18-2011, 03:16 PM
As I have already stated I too have this problem on my 07 Mobius. One major problem with this that nobody stated prior is what happens to this ski locker water when you fill the the front bag all the way up. Well I'll tell you, that water pushes it way up through any spaces in the floor leaving water in the under seat storage in the front as well as the battery storage compartment and driver foot rest area. I originally thought this was due to dipping the bow while we were out but we never did. Im am now going to try to put in an access hole and suck out as much of this mystery water as possible.
paulyg
08-26-2011, 05:33 PM
I am considering purchasing a 2008 LSV, is there a way to find out if this issue affected just this year and model?
THanks.
mnpracing
08-26-2011, 05:52 PM
I am considering purchasing a 2008 LSV, is there a way to find out if this issue affected just this year and model?
THanks.
If you read through this thread you will see many different years and models with this issue. Take a look at the signature lines on the posts, as many people have listed their year and model in their signatures.
shonk2176she
09-19-2011, 07:56 PM
I'm officially freaked out! We bought a new 2010 Moomba from an out of state dealer. Due to the heavy floods this past summer we've not been able to use our new boat more than 10 hours. However, when we finally got it in the water, there were 3 folks sitting up front and there was water coming up from the floor. These folks feet were sitting in 2 inches of water. Once they went to the back of the boat...water receded but where did it go? We tested it again and it filled up again. We let it sit for a few weeks and went back to check and the carpet is still wet. It's retaining water but we don't know why. I'm nervous. Who should I turn to? The boat dealer is 9 hours away?
moombadaze
09-19-2011, 09:03 PM
shonk, taking a little liberty with a answer for you--thinking you have bow docking lights and that with 3 folks up front that put them under water. those lights are not water tight and need a 4" in diamature hole going thru the boat, little forward momentum and thats the possiblility of a lot of water coming in under the bow seats.
hey since your new here post a photo of the new ride and welcome to the forums
wolfeman131
09-19-2011, 10:31 PM
I agree with Daze on what your issue is. Some folks have used clear silicone to seal around the docking lights to stop this from happening.
jmvotto
09-19-2011, 10:42 PM
They dont silicone the docking lights below the water line. Hmnn i just put a 650 in the bow,hope they dont leak
wolfeman131
09-19-2011, 10:56 PM
they will leak. get some clear silicone on them now or be ready for some water in the bow.
jmvotto
09-19-2011, 11:05 PM
Thanks. Good to know.
I check my ski locker today and it appear that my boat, a lsv 2011, has the same issue. I called the dealer and they said that it should drain when the boat has the bow high. I ve tried it and the water doesn t drain.
Is there other people with 2011 or 2012 moomba with the same issue? I don t think sc fixed it for the newer model.
jmvotto
09-12-2012, 10:04 PM
I thought they fixed this in the 2009 or 2010 modl years.
I thought they fixed this in the 2009 or 2010 modl years.
Maybe it is just my boat...........It is almost freezing here so I have to remove this water soon
yz 2smoke
09-13-2012, 08:39 AM
I have a center drain plug that will get most of the water out. You still have to raise and lower the bow and suck it out with a shop vac.
I have a center drain plug that will get most of the water out. You still have to raise and lower the bow and suck it out with a shop vac.
Ok, does your boat came with a drain plug or you added it? And where is the drain plug...more in the front or in the back? In my boat the water seems to be more in the front.
I ve let the bow up all night and it still has water in the front.
Thanks for your help
jmvotto
09-13-2012, 09:43 AM
Ok, does your boat came with a drain plug or you added it? And where is the drain plug...more in the front or in the back? In my boat the water seems to be more in the front.
I ve let the bow up all night and it still has water in the front.
Thanks for your help
http://www.moomba.com/mobiuslsv/
pic 10 under photos in the center of the boat small 3 by 3" small metal pull tab for access to the plug
also one in the rear, most water should drain into the area that wont reach the bilge.
http://www.moomba.com/mobiuslsv/
pic 10 under photos in the center of the boat small 3 by 3" small metal pull tab for access to the plug
also one in the rear, most water should drain into the area that wont reach the bilge.
Ok I know where are the two drain plugs in the boat to let the water goes out. My problem is that water is trapped between the hull and the "black floor" in the ski locker but there is no way to drain it......will I have to make a hole in the ski locker floor like other guys did in this thread?
I tought that Yz 2smoke had a drain plug in the ski locker floor to shop vac the water that is trapped there.
mnpracing
09-13-2012, 10:20 AM
hans, I'm the one that started this thread and what you are describing is the issue of this thread (at least the original issue). As far as I know, there are only 2 ways to fix this: 1) make a hole in the locker floor and install a deck plate so that you can periodically shopvac the water out, or 2) make a larger hole in the floor, dry it all out, then reglass the floor and the very front of the locker floor where the water enters that space. I had option 2 done under warranty and so far I haven't noticed any water in that space since then. But the total bill (paid by SC) was well over $1,000. If I get water there again, I will likely opt for #1 as it took them 10 days to get the work done (lot's of time just drying out the boat), and it could recur. It looks like they did a really good job, but the shop and I both assumed we identified the source of the intrusion.
If you step and bouncing in the locker, does water squish out the very front of the locker, or have you figured out how it's getting in there?
hans, I'm the one that started this thread and what you are describing is the issue of this thread (at least the original issue). As far as I know, there are only 2 ways to fix this: 1) make a hole in the locker floor and install a deck plate so that you can periodically shopvac the water out, or 2) make a larger hole in the floor, dry it all out, then reglass the floor and the very front of the locker floor where the water enters that space. I had option 2 done under warranty and so far I haven't noticed any water in that space since then. But the total bill (paid by SC) was well over $1,000. If I get water there again, I will likely opt for #1 as it took them 10 days to get the work done (lot's of time just drying out the boat), and it could recur. It looks like they did a really good job, but the shop and I both assumed we identified the source of the intrusion.
If you step and bouncing in the locker, does water squish out the very front of the locker, or have you figured out how it's getting in there?
When I step I can hear water behind the floor and water comes out by a small hole in the floor, like if there was a hole there that has been reglass....but in the locker there are two large holes in the walls where wire pass, so water can enter there.......I think it can be hard to prevent water to get in but it should drain...
ga-lsv05
09-13-2012, 11:31 AM
Would it be an option to drop another bilge pump in there? Enough room?
2005 mobius lsv 2900lbs ballast
yz 2smoke
09-13-2012, 01:13 PM
Ok, does your boat came with a drain plug or you added it? And where is the drain plug...more in the front or in the back? In my boat the water seems to be more in the front.
I ve let the bow up all night and it still has water in the front.
Thanks for your help
My boat came with it; so it looks like I need to check my ski locker when I get home to see if I still have water trapped in there. I've never notcied water in there but I dont take the bag out either. I will check when I get home and post what i find
moombahighrider
09-13-2012, 05:46 PM
I put two extra bilge pumps in mine. I have three deck plates in total in the area in question as I could not get the water to easily get through the foam to the lowest point. obviously it would travel over time but I like to be able to get the water out quickly.
The bulge pumps work well although not perfect. They have to pump uphill quite a bit so some water falls back downhill when the pumps kick off.
I like knowing that I can get that water out when I need to without needing to get out the shop vac.
jmvotto
09-13-2012, 06:59 PM
be real interesting to know if this is a problem in the newer models. Thought SC fixed this issue. Hope they were fibbing to us about the fix in the later models last year.
wolfstone
10-02-2012, 07:19 AM
I have this "trapped water" issue with my Mobius V 2000.
Its been like this for the 5 years that I have owned the boat.
I just look at it as extra ballast...
It does get cold here in the UK in winter, so I guess it could freeze solid, but it hasn't before, so I'm not going to worry about it.
Just as a note, my friends 2004 X2 Mastercraft has exactly the same problem, neither of us worry.
Just keep boarding.......
lewisb13
10-02-2012, 08:24 AM
Just not a good thing to have standing permanent water on fiberglass
yz 2smoke
10-02-2012, 04:25 PM
I looked at mine the other day and I couldn’t tell if I had water under the ski locker or not. The center drain was still dry from me vacuuming it out a week before.
I looked at mine the other day and I couldn’t tell if I had water under the ski locker or not. The center drain was still dry from me vacuuming it out a week before.
Even if you have trapped water your center drain will be dry....like mine. If you want to know if there is water open the ski locker, stand up on the floor ( in the ski locker) put your feet as forward as possible and jump...you will hear the water.
My dealer was supposed to call me back for that problem but I m still waiting........................
wolfstone
10-03-2012, 03:05 AM
I only have 1 drain....at the rear of the boat, no centre drain.
The water is stuck in there with no way to escape....I might have a look this weekend....but I don't want to spend days at it.
yz 2smoke
10-03-2012, 07:51 AM
Even if you have trapped water your center drain will be dry....like mine. If you want to know if there is water open the ski locker, stand up on the floor ( in the ski locker) put your feet as forward as possible and jump...you will hear the water.
My dealer was supposed to call me back for that problem but I m still waiting........................
I don’t think I weigh enough to make it slosh, I tried jumping on it last night with the bow at different angles but I could hear anything. I need to get one of my bigger friends to come over and try.
bergermaister
10-03-2012, 06:08 PM
I only have 1 drain....at the rear of the boat, no centre drain.
Doesn't your basement locker have a drain that goes back to the bilge area? I get water in the basement regularly. Have ran the boat plowing nose high for a short ride to drain it, then put a cork in it before slowing back down. At home on the trailer I will lower the jack and the nose of the boat as far as it will got and let the water run in there intentionally, then vac it out with my Tsunami handheld. Or drive up and park on a hill for a few min while everything drains out the back.
wolfstone
10-04-2012, 03:12 AM
Sorry, yes, I have a hole running from the front ski locker to the rear engine compartment.
I don't have an actual drain plug in the centre of the boat (like some Mastercrafts).
I actually blocked up my hole from the front ski locker to the rear compartment, as it was always wet in the ski locker......
Now its my dry area, with a fatsac in place....(i say dry, but whenever it rains heavy, the rainwater from the front section of the cover seeps in to the front seating area, and down into the ski locker. (as my ski locker has no 'roof')
For those who put a deck plate in the ski locker did you put it in the front, in th middle or in the rear of the locker? I will have to do this but I don't know where to drill the hole
moombahighrider
10-16-2012, 09:51 PM
I put three deck plates in the ski locker (front, middle and rear). I found that the foam restricted the water from flowing back to the deepest point below the ski locker floor. I started with the first hole as far back to the stern as I could, but when I sucked the water out, there was still water sloshing further up front. I was amazed at how much water I got out of there each time I drilled a new access hole.
I put three deck plates in the ski locker (front, middle and rear). I found that the foam restricted the water from flowing back to the deepest point below the ski locker floor. I started with the first hole as far back to the stern as I could, but when I sucked the water out, there was still water sloshing further up front. I was amazed at how much water I got out of there each time I drilled a new access hole.
What deck plates size did you use? Is it possible to damage a stringer when you cut the floor? ( is there a stringer there)
Since you made the holes, is there a lot of water that goes under the ski locker floor each time you go on the water?
moombahighrider
10-17-2012, 12:20 AM
I do find water there more than I would like and it's not always cause I dip the bow. I struggle to make sense of it, but maybe I get some leakage from my ski locker bag? The other thought is that my bow lights (dock lights) are the culprit, but I usually don't roll that deep.
I used 4 or 5" plates, I don't remember exactly. I actually have Sahara pumps in two of the holes to auto suck out the water, so check the dimensions on those and that might tell you what I have, as the pumps fit in the opening, no problem.
No stringer down there at all.
Today I made a hole in the rear of the floor like the dealer suggest. Surprise.....no water there....everything s dry. So I made a hole in the front an a lot of water ( smelling bad) starts to get out. I ve shop vac 26 liters of water there. So now I think that something restricted the water from going in the back.....just foam or somethin else? Stringer?
moombahighrider
10-17-2012, 09:47 PM
Just foam. That is the same thing that I experienced. The foam is a closed cell type so it holds the water back really well. I actually shoved a glow rod (for fishing wires in walls) between all three holes and there was no compartment or anything separating that whole space.
Nobodyrides4Free
11-12-2012, 10:45 PM
16540165411654216543
Ok, Found a definite hole. You can see a circle where the water is coming out. First I thought just water from bag so I wet vac it out. I started putting a rubber stopper between engine compartment an ski locker to Keep the water out.
Then I found this when putting the boat away for winter. One spot you can see where its blistered and water seeps thru.
The other is a round hole, where the water is flat draining out!
One picture shows after vac, the other pic with larger puddle is the next morning.....Wow!
I posted before because the water was coming from somewhere. Thats why I put plug in. Engine compartment would be dry, but water always ended up in ski locker. Plug helped all summer, but know I have a hole and more water
Now What? thinking of Rhino lining in the spring when it comes out of staorage.
2002 Mobius V
There has to be something wrong with the structure of the boat or design. All of us having the same issue.....
Whats up Skiers Choice? Can someone answer this question for us...
Too many of us with this issue.....
Nobodyrides4Free
11-12-2012, 10:46 PM
16540165411654216543
Ok, Found a definite hole. You can see a circle where the water is coming out. First I thought just water from bag so I wet vac it out. I started putting a rubber stopper between engine compartment an ski locker to Keep the water out.
Then I found this when putting the boat away for winter. One spot you can see where its blistered and water seeps thru.
The other is a round hole, where the water is flat draining out!
One picture shows after vac, the other pic with larger puddle is the next morning.....Wow!
I posted before because the water was coming from somewhere. Thats why I put plug in. Engine compartment would be dry, but water always ended up in ski locker. Plug helped all summer, but know I have a hole and more water
Now What? thinking of Rhino lining in the spring when it comes out of storage.
2002 Mobius V
There has to be something wrong with the structure of the boat or design. All of us having the same issue.....
Whats up Skiers Choice? Can someone answer this question for us...
Too many of us with this issue.....
bergermaister
11-13-2012, 12:13 AM
Rick - that basement compartment on ours has a pretty thin liner. The rear plug that drains into the bilge area (or under the floor?) is the only place mine has taken on water besides coming from a roller over the bow. Looks like your compartment has worn thin in at least one area.
Rhino liner may work but that stuff is pretty thin after it's on too. With gear and ballast riding on it I would think you need something a little more hardy to patch it. Not sure what though.
Before doing anything I'd find a nice steep hill to park on for a few hours and get that sucker totally drained...
Nobodyrides4Free
11-13-2012, 02:17 PM
yea probably a good idea! Probably need to have it glassed and patched properly..
Gabbyg88
02-02-2013, 10:30 PM
I bought a used 2007 Outback V and was concerned when I read this post. Unfortunately, the boat sat outside uncovered on the dealers lot for about 2months until I bought it. I think thats where my water came from, but could be wrong. I pulled the sac and the mat from the ski locker and noticed I had water seeping up throughout the floor. I called Skier Choice and they told me to drill 5" hole, pull the insulation, dry it, once dry use spray foam to fill the hole, replace the fiberglass piece and fiberglass it back in. I don't want to do that because I won't know if water is getting back under the ski locker. I am going to re-fiberglass the whole ski locker and seal it. Then I am going to install a 5" water tight deck plate from Overton's. I think my water is coming down through the floor of ski locker, the fiberglass seems brittle in spots. I hope this correct this issue. SC was very nice and helpful, but would not admit this is known issue with this boat.
jnb0y
03-04-2013, 02:55 PM
I'm a new Moomba owner and I suspect my boat has water in the same area as mentioned. Seems like an obvious place for water to gather considering the drop-keel. I've also wondered what good the drain plug in the back does considering it is nearly the highest point in the bilge when its sitting on the trailer on level ground.
At any rate, I'm not overly worried and I'm happy to do the deck plate mod and suck the water out. I read through this whole discussion (ok, skimmed) and don't recall seeing any mention of installing a drain plug at the bottom of the drop keel. Maybe on one side the of the keel an inch or so up, just to let the majority of the water out.
I'm in no hurry to drill holes in the bottom of my boat, but I wonder if anyone has taken this approach? I've seen a mid-ship drain plug installed between the tracking fins...
tarheelskier
03-04-2013, 03:22 PM
What year and model is your boat? There is a mid-ship drain plug now, but not sure what model year that was started.
jnb0y
03-04-2013, 03:34 PM
'02 Outback LSV. Definitely no mid-ship drain. I'm just wondering if that would be a good solution for the trapped water thing? Not sure I want to put one in yet, just hoping to hear from anyone that might have tried it.
wolfeman131
03-04-2013, 05:39 PM
What year and model is your boat? There is a mid-ship drain plug now, but not sure what model year that was started.
started with 2009 OBV - if I remember right
'02 Outback LSV. Definitely no mid-ship drain. I'm just wondering if that would be a good solution for the trapped water thing? Not sure I want to put one in yet, just hoping to hear from anyone that might have tried it.
try a search as someone did do this. had to be pretty precise with the drilling and work between the skegs on the bottom of the boat.
moombadaze
03-04-2013, 05:54 PM
ideal loction would be at the bottom of the drop portion on the keel. my 2013 center drain is located inbetween the skegs which is higher than that the drop keel portion, so that would not really solve the issue of water trapped in the keel
jnb0y
03-04-2013, 06:04 PM
ideal loction would be at the bottom of the drop portion on the keel. my 2013 center drain is located inbetween the skegs which is higher than that the drop keel portion, so that would not really solve the issue of water trapped in the keel
Precisely. I think its a good idea but I don't want to do it first!
EDIT: I should say I think the drain between the skegs is a good spot as well. That is the low point in the bilge/fuel tank area when on the trailer. I understand there is a semi-permeable barrier (partially sealed bulkhead??) between that area and the area of the drop keel. I'd say if a guy was going to get excited about adding drain plugs he would want to add both. Might even help minimize the water under the locker.
jmvotto
03-07-2013, 12:38 PM
I bought a used 2007 Outback V and was concerned when I read this post. Unfortunately, the boat sat outside uncovered on the dealers lot for about 2months until I bought it. I think thats where my water came from, but could be wrong. I pulled the sac and the mat from the ski locker and noticed I had water seeping up throughout the floor. I called Skier Choice and they told me to drill 5" hole, pull the insulation, dry it, once dry use spray foam to fill the hole, replace the fiberglass piece and fiberglass it back in. I don't want to do that because I won't know if water is getting back under the ski locker. I am going to re-fiberglass the whole ski locker and seal it. Then I am going to install a 5" water tight deck plate from Overton's. I think my water is coming down through the floor of ski locker, the fiberglass seems brittle in spots. I hope this correct this issue. SC was very nice and helpful, but would not admit this is known issue with this boat.
Gabby. Not sure I would waste my time glassing the floor, the water can come in from a void in the bow tip at the front of the locker. Sc knows about this issue. I did the deck plate and just drained it regularly .
Gabbyg88
03-07-2013, 01:50 PM
Gabby. Not sure I would waste my time glassing the floor, the water can come in from a void in the bow tip at the front of the locker. Sc knows about this issue. I did the deck plate and just drained it regularly .
Joe - thanks for the advice. I been thinking about it alot and I have decided to just put down a layer of 6oz. fiberglass mat on the floor of the ski locker. I am not going to try and re-fiberglass the whole ski locker and seal it. I agree with you it will be a waste of time and money trying to re-fiberglass the whole ski locker. The only reason I am laying fiberglass on the floor is for strength and will only be doing the area I reach, I don't like when I stepped into the locker I heard cracking.
gregski
11-16-2013, 11:22 PM
"Me too"... but with a twist.
I would strongly advise anyone with this era of boat to cut out a deck plate and the foam down to the hull, even if you don't see any signs of it. I think it's very likely that you have this issue.
I had no indication that my boat had this issue. Standing/jumping in the ski locker didn't produce any squishes or other signs of trapped water. But given how many people have this issue, and the fact that I haven't read a single "not me", I decided to cut an inspection hole/deck plate anyways. I figured I would end up doing it some time in the future to put my mind at ease, so I might as well do it now.
As I drilled and then cut out the foam, everything was bone-dry. But then suddenly, I broke away a piece of foam giving a gap to bottom and it was like hitting oil! The water started to flow. The water was not trapped between the foam and the underside of the ski locker, it was trapped between the foam and the hull. I sucked out about 2 gallons of water and gained peace of mind knowing that I'm putting the boat away totally dry.
A big thanks to the forum on this. This is great communal knowledge. Without it, I wouldn't have known about the problem or the solution.
spyder
09-18-2014, 01:23 PM
i know i said a big me too a bunch of years ago, including cracks and holes in the ski locker floor... lack of free time and storing all winter hasn't left me time to put the deck cover in... boat is home a bit earlier this year so i just ordered one off amazon.ca... also removing the carpet from the floor in the rear lockers as well.. weeks after not using the boat, carpet is still damp.. glad to finally remove it.
spyder
09-18-2014, 04:52 PM
What adhesive works best on the port cover.
gregski
09-18-2014, 06:56 PM
I used a bit of the 3M 5200 marine adhesive because I was doing a thru-hull and it was easy. That area below the locker isn't perfectly sealed (the real root of the problem) so I don't think you really need to put any adhesive there. A silicone sealant would probably work nicely too.
spyder
09-20-2014, 10:02 AM
Can anyone suggest how far from rear of ski Locker to put the Hole?
spyder
09-22-2014, 04:32 PM
Can anyone suggest how far from rear of ski Locker to put the Hole?
jeez, i'm having a heck of a time finding a 4.5" hole saw for this access hole... Home Depot wants like $50...not spending that for 1 cut.. heh
gregski
09-22-2014, 04:45 PM
I just used a dremel with a spiral cut bit. Fiberglass is easy to cut.
Gabbyg88
09-23-2014, 12:19 AM
Check amazon for the hole saw, a lot cheaper then Home Depot
spyder
09-23-2014, 09:22 AM
kind of weird, but i've had this 2006 LSV since 2008 and look what I noticed looking forward in the ski locker..
was this hole a concern before even we knew about it? how could the previous owner of noticed it and corrected it?
http://i.imgur.com/UT6a7sjl.jpg?1
at least it looks like it was addressed in some way.
jmvotto
09-23-2014, 09:38 AM
that's void that created the buzz a few years ago in the manufacturing process on the older models. only fix is to cut a deck plate and suck out water as needed.:mad:
spyder
09-23-2014, 10:10 AM
that's void that created the buzz a few years ago in the manufacturing process on the older models. only fix is to cut a deck plate and suck out water as needed.:mad:
yeah i know, i was just impressed it looks to have been addressed in someway before I got the boat in 2008.
moombahighrider
09-23-2014, 10:17 AM
yeah i know, i was just impressed it looks to have been addressed in someway before I got the boat in 2008.
It's hard to say because the photo is hard to get a clear grasp of, but that looks quite similar to how my 08 looks up there. I think that is the factory product...
Which we know doesn't work. I have to suck the water out after every trip, even if I dont take a wave over the bow.
spyder
09-23-2014, 10:25 AM
It's hard to say because the photo is hard to get a clear grasp of, but that looks quite similar to how my 08 looks up there. I think that is the factory product...
Which we know doesn't work. I have to suck the water out after every trip, even if I dont take a wave over the bow.
even if mine was repaired I know i need to fix it with the access hole anyways, as i had a dime sized hole I patched in the fiberglass of the locker..
trying to find a 4.5" holesaw blade is brutal... about to just ghetto it with some other tool
rdlangston13
09-24-2014, 10:05 AM
that's void that created the buzz a few years ago in the manufacturing process on the older models. only fix is to cut a deck plate and suck out water as needed.:mad:
Or just do what I do and ignore it! What water????
spyder
09-24-2014, 12:38 PM
Or just do what I do and ignore it! What water????
Water? oh, you mean ballast!
Gabbyg88
09-24-2014, 02:18 PM
I just found a 4 - 1/2" hole saw on Amazon for $33.00
http://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-D180072-2-Inch-Hole-Saw/dp/B00005LEZU/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1411582619&sr=8-6&keywords=dewalt+5%22+hole+saw
gregski
09-24-2014, 03:10 PM
A hole saw is really overkill for this. The cut doesn't need to be perfect; any imperfections are covered by the deck plate (ok only within reason but easily 1/4" of slop)
Here's a 4 pack of rotozip bits for $7:
http://www.amazon.com/Roto-SC4-8-Inch-Plastic-4-Pack/dp/B004NSKWDU/ref=pd_cp_hi_0
spyder
09-24-2014, 09:07 PM
definitely had water below the ski locker (it was a given)
lesson learned, wear gloves while cutting fiberglass.. feels like i have a million slivers
Foam Removed
http://i.imgur.com/awe3RIWl.jpg
Money Shot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dNBvsJ1nao
Tools Used
http://i.imgur.com/AzTV9rzl.jpg
borrowed that adjustable drill doohicky from the nieghbour... worked amazing btw if you can't find a 4.5" hole saw
in the end, i got about 5-6L out of the hole.. there will probably be more that settles
parrothd
09-25-2014, 09:47 AM
So I didn't read the whole thread but why are you doing this again? Trying to remove excess water weight?!
spyder
09-25-2014, 09:59 AM
So I didn't read the whole thread but why are you doing this again? Trying to remove excess water weight?!
to remove standing water below the floor... water sitting on fiberglass... probably not ideal.
parrothd
09-25-2014, 10:09 AM
It's not going to do anything to fiberglass. If it was 100 gallons is be concerned about extra fuel usage.
bergermaister
09-25-2014, 11:16 AM
Then there's (potential for) the nasty swampy smell after time...
parrothd
09-25-2014, 11:27 AM
Guess I learned that lesson early, never open anything that could have nasty smell.. Unplugged refrigerators, boat cavities/bilges and ovens with leftover hotdogs in water from the last party..
spyder
09-25-2014, 11:34 AM
Then there's (potential for) the nasty swampy smell after time...
let's not forget about mould
http://www.remonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/pic-for-mould-web.jpg
parrothd
09-25-2014, 11:49 AM
Yea, if you open it.. Lol
spyder
09-25-2014, 11:57 AM
Then there's (potential for) the nasty swampy smell after time...
just frebreeze it.. lol
utexasrick
06-10-2015, 12:03 AM
Just got to doing my today, got as much water out as I could but I can see it slowly accumulating. I'll come back tomorrow afternoon and see how much is in there. 22205
obnoxious
07-01-2015, 01:29 PM
I just bought an '02 Kamberra in May of this year (2015). Noticed when I stepped in the ski locker the first time that water was sloshing underneath. Add me to the list of victims.
parrothd
07-01-2015, 01:39 PM
Still not sure what the bid deal is.. Few extra pounds for fuel consumption?
gregski
07-01-2015, 02:59 PM
Still not sure what the bid deal is.. Few extra pounds for fuel consumption?
For me, it's winter storage. I have to shrink wrap the boat and any trapped water will create a high humidity environment ripe for mold and mildew damage.
brain_rinse
07-01-2015, 05:22 PM
I only opened mine to dry out for winter storage as well.
jenner4410
09-09-2016, 03:04 PM
I bought a 2015 Outback V back in April of this year. I took my ballast bag out two weeks ago, stepped into the ski locker and go figure, I was standing on a wavy lake while the boat was up on the trailer. I figured I would try to drain it to the back, hooked my tractor to the ball and lifted the front end up until the trailer was nearly on the ground. It was a fruitless labor....... I too think mine is trapped. Sad day. I have contacted my dealer about getting it fixed and they're getting in touch with SC about it. I have to admit, I was shocked to find that this problem was spotted 5-6 years ago, and I'm seeing it in my boat now. Hopefully the warranty covers it, I bought it new, so I don't see why it wouldn't.
I wonder if the dealer would put an access port in for me instead of re-glassing it..... hmm.....
jmvotto
09-09-2016, 03:18 PM
should have been fixed in 2009 , but the access port is a quick and easy mod to extract the water.......
Jeepers
09-09-2016, 08:02 PM
I tore mine apart this winter. The water was never coming from the bow. It actually comes from the bilge. There is a failure between the deck / hull bond creating a passage for water under the bulk head that seperates the ski locker from the bilge. In addition, whom ever installed the ski locker drain installed it at crooked and failed to seal around it. I ended up cutting out all the deck fiberglass and pulling all the foam (which was soaked) from the bilge are, under the bulk head and under the ski locker out. Re-foaming, Re-fiber glassed the hull deck joint, bypassing the bulkhead ski locker drain with a new drain, sealing the entire thing with epoxy and a good 2-3 coats of bilgekote. I left the access hatches I cut initially in the ski locker to make sure water was no longer getting trapped.
Jeepers
09-09-2016, 08:07 PM
Skiiers choice was very helpful in helping me navigate the structure of the boat.. However, it was very obvious once I figured out where the water was coming from that this is 100% a manufacturing and poor design issue. If I had bought my boat new I would have pushed a warranty claim and not backed down. They should be covering this issue under warranty. There is no excuse!
parrothd
09-09-2016, 08:36 PM
Does it really matter? It's foam and fiberglass so it's not going to rot.
Jeepers
09-09-2016, 09:55 PM
It did to me. Fiberglass will absorb water and the foam will mildew. If the water stays their the gel coat will eventually fail. Their is a chance the hull /deck joint will continue to fail from vibrations, hull flex... It probably won't fail while you own it. But I couldn't pass along the issue to someone else. It was a relatively easy and inexpensive fix. In addition, I learned how to lay fiberglass and epoxy.
parrothd
09-09-2016, 10:27 PM
Once you have a wet slip you'll never remember the inside being dry..lol...
Jeepers
09-10-2016, 12:10 AM
Once you have a wet slip you'll never remember the inside being dry..lol...
👍🏻🚤
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
moombahighrider
09-10-2016, 12:35 AM
Once you have a wet slip you'll never remember the inside being dry..lol...
What exactly are you talking about here?....
parrothd
09-10-2016, 06:50 PM
The inside/bilge of my boat always has standing water (4-12 inches). I'm in a wet slip 5-6 months, then rain and snow while in storage. If you have mildew on the seats you should add vents to the cover.
Skier's choice isn't too concerned because it's not hurting anything and there's really no impact. The dealer on the other hand sees $$$ out of your pocket. ;)
If you cut holes in the rear sections you'd find water and soaked foam as well, just the nature of boats. Just think you guys are over worrying. :)
Jeepers
09-10-2016, 06:52 PM
The inside/bilge of my boat always has standing water (4-12 inches). I'm in a wet slip 5-6 months, then rain and snow while in storage. If you have mildew on the seats you should add vents to the cover.
Skier's choice isn't too concerned because it's not hurting anything and there's really no impact. The dealer on the other hand sees $$$ out of your pocket. ;)
If you cut holes in the rear sections you'd find water and soaked foam as well, just the nature of boats. Just think you guys are over worrying. :)
Not when other boats are designed never to have this issue.
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Jeepers
09-10-2016, 06:56 PM
SC is gambling that the fiberglass, gelcoat and foam won't fail during the first ownership. It will eventually fail.
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KG's Supra24
09-10-2016, 07:48 PM
I think there are more than a couple wet boats from that Era. I'm not sure if sc has acknowledged it or not. I agree it's not right, though.
Any new boat should be easily covered under warranty.
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parrothd
09-10-2016, 07:51 PM
There's a reason boats newer boat don't use wood stingers, anymore. They used rot and you'd have to replace them. It's the first thing you need to check on an older boat. Fiberglass isn't going to rot, or gelcoat blistering with the usage type you have. :)
Jeepers
09-11-2016, 11:35 PM
Almost all manufacturers use ITW Plexus to create a permanent watertight bond between the hull and deck of each boat. This prevents water from finding its way into the foam and stringer system and prevents hull/deck separation. SC did not start using plexus as soon as other manufacturers and at least on my 2008 was not used (per SC). All manufacturers have seen this issue. However, they have not seen it to the extent that SC has. I have to add to add that John Buescher -
Moomba Support was extremely helpful answering all my questions and walking me through how to uncover the real issue and how to solve the problem. No other boat manufacturer I have ever owned would have spent that much time and provided such outstanding customer support. This is why I would not hesitate to buy another Moomba. I doubt you'll find another manufacturer that care enough to help out a 2nd owner of an 8 year old boat. Top Notch!!
GW@vineyardlake
09-23-2017, 05:50 PM
Bought used 2008 LSV last year (2016); I just put three 4" holes in my ski locker and drained at least 8+ gallons of water; it must of been in there forever, stinky as hell and flies love it; pulled as much foam as I could (wish I would've drilled 6" holes); foam is waterlogged and filled with oily water (previous oil leak and I think a current oil leak);will the foam dry out over time?; I'm storing the boat inside for the winter, so hopefully that will help; has anyone actually cut out the entire locker and refoamed?; it seems like the foam traps the water, especially if there is oil in it; what a mess -- stinks like crazy and oil all through the foam.
Jeepers
09-23-2017, 06:02 PM
Bought used 2008 LSV last year (2016); I just put three 4" holes in my ski locker and drained at least 8+ gallons of water; it must of been in there forever, stinky as hell and flies love it; pulled as much foam as I could (wish I would've drilled 6" holes); foam is waterlogged and filled with oily water (previous oil leak and I think a current oil leak);will the foam dry out over time?; I'm storing the boat inside for the winter, so hopefully that will help; has anyone actually cut out the entire locker and refoamed?; it seems like the foam traps the water, especially if there is oil in it; what a mess -- stinks like crazy and oil all through the foam.
Yes. Leave it open over the winter and keep sucking water out. I ended up pulling the gas tank out and repairing (epoxy and glass) the bulkhead between ski locker and stern and sealed the ski locker drain with new removable drain plug. It was actually pretty easy and I've never done any fiberglass work before. Put a fresh coat of Bildgekote while the gas tank was out. I also epoxied the opening at the bow. Once the foam is out, you can get some condensation in there. I put some bags of alumina desiccant in the home created when pulling the foam out during the summer and open the deck lid I installed during winter storage.
It does take forever for the water to drain out of the foam. Like 6-12 months.
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Jeepers
09-23-2017, 08:30 PM
Bought used 2008 LSV last year (2016); I just put three 4" holes in my ski locker and drained at least 8+ gallons of water; it must of been in there forever, stinky as hell and flies love it; pulled as much foam as I could (wish I would've drilled 6" holes); foam is waterlogged and filled with oily water (previous oil leak and I think a current oil leak);will the foam dry out over time?; I'm storing the boat inside for the winter, so hopefully that will help; has anyone actually cut out the entire locker and refoamed?; it seems like the foam traps the water, especially if there is oil in it; what a mess -- stinks like crazy and oil all through the foam.
I forgot: Drilled 2 4" holes in the ski locker
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GW@vineyardlake
09-24-2017, 04:53 PM
Thanks for the info.
Jeepers
09-28-2017, 02:00 PM
Thanks for the info.
Also investigate where the water is coming from. I had a leaky ballast hose that was leaking into the bilge and ski locker.
To help the water drain faster, I took a coat hanger; straightened it out and ran it up between the hull and foam in multiple directions. Most of my water was not coming from the bow. It was coming from the Bildge just to the stern of the bulkhead between the ski locker and bildge area where fuel tank is. I first drilled 1/4" holes into the bulk head at its lowest point and used a shop vac to suck the water out of each hole. I the used flexible epoxy and glass from West Marine to seal that whole area up.
My experience through this project is exactly why my next boat will be a Moomba/Supra. I emailed Moomba Support (John Buescher) and he walked me through every little step to correct the issue. In addition, he explained why it was happening. It really isn't a design flaw and you shouldn't get discouraged about the quality of your boat. Since repairing the issue, there hasn't been a drop of water under the ski locker.
At the end of the day, I don't know if another manufacturer who would spent that much time helping someone out who purchased a 7 year old used boat. Most would have directed you to a dealer or not even replied to the email. John was awesome to work with. In fact John Buescher should probably get the commission on my next Moomba!!
Let me know if you have any questions as you venture into this project.
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Jeepers
09-28-2017, 02:12 PM
Also investigate where the water is coming from. I had a leaky ballast hose that was leaking into the bilge and ski locker.
To help the water drain faster, I took a coat hanger; straightened it out and ran it up between the hull and foam in multiple directions. Most of my water was not coming from the bow. It was coming from the Bildge just to the stern of the bulkhead between the ski locker and bildge area where fuel tank is. I first drilled 1/4" holes into the bulk head at its lowest point and used a shop vac to suck the water out of each hole. I the used flexible epoxy and glass from West Marine to seal that whole area up.
My experience through this project is exactly why my next boat will be a Moomba/Supra. I emailed Moomba Support (John Buescher) and he walked me through every little step to correct the issue. In addition, he explained why it was happening. It really isn't a design flaw and you shouldn't get discouraged about the quality of your boat. Since repairing the issue, there hasn't been a drop of water under the ski locker.
At the end of the day, I don't know if another manufacturer who would spent that much time helping someone out who purchased a 7 year old used boat. Most would have directed you to a dealer or not even replied to the email. John was awesome to work with. In fact John Buescher should probably get the commission on my next Moomba!!
Let me know if you have any questions as you venture into this project.
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This photo should help. The part that was cracked up and "failed" was actually due to a speaker face plate that the previous owner had dropped down there and it had become lodged under the fuel tank between the tank and the hull. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170928/109ac414dbb2f408ee00d339e03a7356.jpg
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GW@vineyardlake
09-29-2017, 07:32 PM
Thanks for the additional information; I'm going to have my boat dealer dig into it over the winter; what concerns me even more than the water ( I guess periodically vacuuming out the water like others are doing isn't so bad), is the amount of oil in the water and oil trapped in the foam -- it's obvious that my boat has had an oil leak for some time.
Jeepers
09-29-2017, 07:33 PM
Thanks for the additional information; I'm going to have my boat dealer dig into it over the winter; what concerns me even more than the water ( I guess periodically vacuuming out the water like others are doing isn't so bad), is the amount of oil in the water and oil trapped in the foam -- it's obvious that my boat has had an oil leak for some time.
I can understand that. I was fortunate enough to have no oil in the water.
Let us know how it goes!
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996scott
10-01-2017, 04:26 PM
Keepers, so did you pull out all of the foam out from under the floor or just where you drilled the holes?
Jeepers
10-01-2017, 04:30 PM
Keepers, so did you pull out all of the foam out from under the floor or just where you drilled the holes?
Just the foam where it attaches to the hull and all the way back under the bulk head to the bildge. Creating kind of a foam bridge.
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dkremp
10-03-2017, 11:00 PM
I believe everyone here has had issues with the v-drives having water. I noticed the same thing with my DD but there is no ski looker. There is only a in floor ice chest right in front of the ski pole. I talked to the dealer who sent me to SC who eventually sent me back to the dealer. You can hear the water sloshing when you wiggle the boat. The dealer made a small hole and went in with a borro scopeand said not much water they could see and closed it up and said not to worry about it and SC supported that. my boat is an 06 outback I bought new and I still think the liftime hull warranty should cover something like this. I am not sure if I were to drill an access hole where I would even drill it on this boat? Any other DD owners have this issue?
Jeepers
10-03-2017, 11:02 PM
I believe everyone here has had issues with the v-drives having water. I noticed the same thing with my DD but there is no ski looker. There is only a in floor ice chest right in front of the ski pole. I talked to the dealer who sent me to SC who eventually sent me back to the dealer. You can hear the water sloshing when you wiggle the boat. The dealer made a small hole and went in with a borro scopeand said not much water they could see and closed it up and said not to worry about it and SC supported that. my boat is an 06 outback I bought new and I still think the liftime hull warranty should cover something like this. I am not sure if I were to drill an access hole where I would even drill it on this boat? Any other DD owners have this issue?
Contact John Buescher at Skiers Choice (
[email protected]). He can pull up the schematics and tell you right where to look.
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996scott
10-04-2017, 11:54 AM
So I decided to find out for sure what was going on in my boat, 07 LSV. I could step on the floor of the ski locker and it felt really solid for the most part but I could hear a little water underneath, not much. I put a light in the locker and stuck my head up towards the bow and everything is completely sealed, no gaps anywhere like some have said they have. So I drilled a whole in about the middle of the locker and found a tiny bit of water on top of the foam, not much at all. I did not remove any foam at that time. There was about a 2 inch gap (space) between the floor of the locker and to top of the foam. I decided to drill one more at the back of the locker near the drain hole that goes to the back of the boat (under the gas tank). There was no gap at all between the floor of the locker and the foam and the foam was completely dry, not a drop of water. So I went back to the hole in the middle and started removing the foam and one I got towards the bottom there was a fair amount of water. I sucked about 2-3 gallons out. I went back and removed the foam at the back of the locker and found just a little water down at the bottom. So overall I didn't have a lot of water but there was definitely some trapped in there, just not sure where it came from. I'm glad I checked and will put a couple of plates over the holes and check it from time to time.
parrothd
10-04-2017, 02:53 PM
So I decided to find out for sure what was going on in my boat, 07 LSV. I could step on the floor of the ski locker and it felt really solid for the most part but I could hear a little water underneath, not much. I put a light in the locker and stuck my head up towards the bow and everything is completely sealed, no gaps anywhere like some have said they have. So I drilled a whole in about the middle of the locker and found a tiny bit of water on top of the foam, not much at all. I did not remove any foam at that time. There was about a 2 inch gap (space) between the floor of the locker and to top of the foam. I decided to drill one more at the back of the locker near the drain hole that goes to the back of the boat (under the gas tank). There was no gap at all between the floor of the locker and the foam and the foam was completely dry, not a drop of water. So I went back to the hole in the middle and started removing the foam and one I got towards the bottom there was a fair amount of water. I sucked about 2-3 gallons out. I went back and removed the foam at the back of the locker and found just a little water down at the bottom. So overall I didn't have a lot of water but there was definitely some trapped in there, just not sure where it came from. I'm glad I checked and will put a couple of plates over the holes and check it from time to time.
Still not sure why this is a concern, wait till you guys get a wetslip, if there's less than a few inches of water in the bilge something is really wrong.. Lol
996scott
10-04-2017, 07:57 PM
i know, it is a little of my ocd kicking in:) Just wanted to make sure there wasn't something going on that could potentially be a bigger problem.
Fastest1
10-04-2017, 09:46 PM
Still not sure why this is a concern, wait till you guys get a wetslip, if there's less than a few inches of water in the bilge something is really wrong.. Lol
Free Ballast ;-)
Jeepers
10-05-2017, 02:14 AM
Free Ballast ;-)
Fiberglass is not waterproof and will absorb water over time causing your gelcoat to blister. If you don't own your boat long enough to (many years) for that to happen; the water as it heats up in the summer will create water vapor and if covered will create a breeding ground for mildew. In addition, that water will freeze. The freeze and thaw will degrade the foam. If there is enough water trapped in there you stand a pretty good chance of cracking your hull when it freezes.
I fixed mine the right way. My boat sits in the water from April to October and I never have water in the bildge. Unless I take roller over the bow. Which of course the wet-vac comes out and the boat's allowed to completely air dry before the cover is put on.
Trust me. If you ever let mildew start to grow, you will never get rid of it.
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parrothd
10-05-2017, 04:25 PM
Fiberglass is not waterproof and will absorb water over time causing your gelcoat to blister. If you don't own your boat long enough to (many years) for that to happen; the water as it heats up in the summer will create water vapor and if covered will create a breeding ground for mildew. In addition, that water will freeze. The freeze and thaw will degrade the foam. If there is enough water trapped in there you stand a pretty good chance of cracking your hull when it freezes.
I fixed mine the right way. My boat sits in the water from April to October and I never have water in the bildge. Unless I take roller over the bow. Which of course the wet-vac comes out and the boat's allowed to completely air dry before the cover is put on.
Trust me. If you ever let mildew start to grow, you will never get rid of it.
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Install cover vents to prevent mildew, Amazon, cheap.
Jeepers
10-05-2017, 08:10 PM
Got 'em. Unless there's ventilation fan attached to them, they're not very effective.
parrothd
10-06-2017, 07:25 PM
Got 'em. Unless there's ventilation fan attached to them, they're not very effective.
Works for me and I live in a wet slip with bilge filled with water all season.
dkremp
10-07-2017, 10:14 AM
Contact John Buescher at Skiers Choice (
[email protected]). He can pull up the schematics and tell you right where to look.
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Thanks Jeepers, I did email John but have not heard back. I finally bit the bullet and drilled a hole at the bottom of the ice chest and water immediatly started coming out. I drilled a 5/8" hole and bought a 5/8"drain plug to go in it after. I used a shop vac and got over 5 gallons of water. No more sloshing of water when I wiggle the boat. I am not sure why SC or the service dept were'nt able to suggest doing this??? Will just have to check it once or twice a summer.
Jeepers
10-07-2017, 01:00 PM
Thanks Jeepers, I did email John but have not heard back. I finally bit the bullet and drilled a hole at the bottom of the ice chest and water immediatly started coming out. I drilled a 5/8" hole and bought a 5/8"drain plug to go in it after. I used a shop vac and got over 5 gallons of water. No more sloshing of water when I wiggle the boat. I am not sure why SC or the service dept were'nt able to suggest doing this??? Will just have to check it once or twice a summer.
It's a little scary the first time you pull that much water out. There's probably 10-15 more gallons in there. That's why removing the foam and creating a low spot is so important. All the water begin leaching out of the foam and you'll see it's full every morning.
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dkremp
10-07-2017, 01:53 PM
The DD might be a bit different. I did look the next morning and could only get about a 1/4 cup of water and it is defentily the lowest point of the boat the way it is tilted right now. I am glad I got it out before the -40 temps hit.
Jeepers
10-08-2017, 02:46 PM
The DD might be a bit different. I did look the next morning and could only get about a 1/4 cup of water and it is defentily the lowest point of the boat the way it is tilted right now. I am glad I got it out before the -40 temps hit.
I forgot you were DD. Try lowering the bow as low as it will go for a day, vacuum then raise the nose, vacuum. This made a big difference. Sounds like you got most of the water out though.
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Tylerrnemt
10-28-2017, 01:12 PM
You can add me to the list.... apparently the problem wasn't fixed for the 09+ boats. I finally got my center bag out and the locker dried out... remembered this thread and I thought I'd give it the squishy step test. sure enough heard the water sloshing around under there.
I had a spare 5" water tight inspection plate so I thought I might as well get this project done before winter.
I eyeballed from outside the boat about where the lowest part of the bow keel was and stuck a piece of tape on the windshield so I could find it from inside.
Started drilling and sure enough water started coming up out of the pilot hole:
https://youtu.be/7hb-QlzHvA0
Kept cutting and removed the center and found a couple inches of water standing on top of the foam:
https://vgy.me/3trbyx.jpg
Sucked that water out with a shop vac and started removing foam:
https://vgy.me/MG0YYu.jpg
Once the foam was all out I again sucked the rest of the water out
Surprisingly the foam itself seemed pretty dry except the top 1/4" or so and right along the bottom keel about a 1/4" up.
Here's a test fit for the plate:
https://vgy.me/U2nQx5.jpg
And the finished project. I siliconed under the lip of the plate and put a dab in each screw hole before attaching with stainless screws:
https://vgy.me/KEQn9s.jpg
Definitely have piece of mind now knowing I can suck this out anytime and make sure it's dry before the winter freeze. I sucked out about 2 gallons of pretty clean water without any oil residue.
Turbinesurgeon
04-19-2019, 06:21 PM
I wanted to keep this thread alive since there is so much good information here. I just recently bought a Supra Sunsport 24v with the playpen option. I stood in the front ballast compartment and I saw water seep through a weak area where the manufacture injected foam. I cut a hole to add a deck plate like the others did here. I filled up a shop vac full of water so far.
2831528316
StapleHawk
05-18-2020, 05:58 PM
I just read this WHOLE thread. Thank you for keeping it alive as there is a lot of great info here. I'm in a far worse place than what I'm reading here and deciding how I'm going to proceed. Water stuck in between foam sounds easy. Mine sat so long in the water and other issues that my Stringers have apparently come loose. I was hoping someone here had cut into the modular inlay, but it looks like I'm going in blind. SC is not going to fix it at this point and have pretty much blown me off. Once I get this fixed I can't see buying another boat from SC ever again. They left me hangin and I've owned 3 of their boats over the years. If anyone has advice before I started cutting down into my hull, I would sure appreciate it.
Turbinesurgeon
05-20-2020, 09:24 PM
I just read this WHOLE thread. Thank you for keeping it alive as there is a lot of great info here. I'm in a far worse place than what I'm reading here and deciding how I'm going to proceed. Water stuck in between foam sounds easy. Mine sat so long in the water and other issues that my Stringers have apparently come loose. I was hoping someone here had cut into the modular inlay, but it looks like I'm going in blind. SC is not going to fix it at this point and have pretty much blown me off. Once I get this fixed I can't see buying another boat from SC ever again. They left me hangin and I've owned 3 of their boats over the years. If anyone has advice before I started cutting down into my hull, I would sure appreciate it.
What year and model is your boat? How did you determine you had stringer issues?
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zabooda
05-20-2020, 09:33 PM
Of all the people that had issues, you are the first to do more than add drain holes. Tell us how it goes. Fifteen years later the subject comes back. Besta luck.
StapleHawk
05-21-2020, 11:42 AM
What year and model is your boat? How did you determine you had stringer issues?
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It was diagnosed by a pretty well known boat fiberglass repairmen in our area. I have the 06 Moomba XLV gravity.
Turbinesurgeon
05-21-2020, 01:34 PM
It was diagnosed by a pretty well known boat fiberglass repairmen in our area. I have the 06 Moomba XLV gravity.
Hmmm. I thought that all the stringers were fiberglass encasing foam and would resist any water in the area? I’m not sure it would be possible for them to be loose. I haven’t seen them so I don’t know. The area we are referring to getting water intruding is in the bow section where the drop keep is located. Not sure if it’s even possible for water to be underneath towards the back. Looks like it was a design flaw from SC. Not a deal breaker for me but a flaw none the less.
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StapleHawk
05-21-2020, 02:22 PM
Hmmm. I thought that all the stringers were fiberglass encasing foam and would resist any water in the area? I’m not sure it would be possible for them to be loose. I haven’t seen them so I don’t know. The area we are referring to getting water intruding is in the bow section where the drop keep is located. Not sure if it’s even possible for water to be underneath towards the back. Looks like it was a design flaw from SC. Not a deal breaker for me but a flaw none the less.
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That would be pretty incredible if true. This guy has a good reputation around here, but he didn't actually see the boat. I sent him about 20 photos of the outside of my hull with pretty severe distress cracks and leaking in water. He asked if my ski locker was squeaking when I hit waves. It definitely does every time. He said the boat was flexing because stringers were loose and it's a 'problem with alot of these boats'. I'm definitely welcoming any different perspectives on this as my boat stands are on the way. I'm going to dremel out all the exterior cracks and re-fiberglass those, as well as the cracks with the hole leak. If I don't have to do stringers, I'll be a very happy man.
ps, should I just create a new thread for this? I'll at least document my progress.
Turbinesurgeon
05-21-2020, 09:37 PM
Wow. I have no idea what the construction looks like in the way of stringers. I guess you’ll see how bad it is once you get through the gel coat. I have a couple of small gel coat cracks on the bottom of my boat where the hull steps. Hopefully yours is good. I saw a 2005 Supra for sale in Dallas about 4 months ago for 7k stating the hull is bad due to stress cracks.
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