Tow Vehicle/Pickup truck HELP

[LSV04]

Hey Guys,
Im going to need a new truck. Going to give my SUV to my wife and want a pickup. I drive about 80 miles a day but only tow boat about 1 mile a season,in and out of the lake, or to clean boat up mid season,so I wouldnt be towing long distance.
Does anyone have any expierience with any of these 3 trucks? Ive looked at the Tacoma,GMC Sierra and Nissan Frontier.(all 2 door small models) All are about same price. Reviews on the Tacoma are not great. The Sierra looks ok, ok reliabilty on low milage ,I dont know about long distance. And Frontier looks great, a little bigger, comfortable and about the same price as Sierra. Nissan has a reliable reputation. The Frontier is a bigger truck, so will be more difficult to park in city. Do you get better gas milage with 2 wheel drive instead of 4WD? I also dont mind buying a demo or 2010 truck, and seems like as the year is closing , its a good time to negotiate any left over 2010"s. So I guess its between the Frontier and the Sierra.
Frontier 2010 $18,999 Has a rebate $800 and seem anxious to sell truck
Sierra 2011 $18,999 Have not negotiated yet
Tacoma 2011 $21,000 Firm on Price

Any help appreciated

[zegm]

I think either one would be a good purchase. My comment here is that 4 wheel drive will cause your mileage to decrease a couple miles per gallon. However, on the flip side the resale value on 4 wheel drives is always a good bit more. I have had both 4 wheel drive and 2 wheel drive (with positive traction rear axles) and sometimes the 2 wheel drive is a little more difficult to get a boat up the ramp. But it has never prevented me from doing so. Sometimes you leave the boat running with someone at the throttle to give the truck a push to get her going, which I have had to do with my 25ft fishing boat. But if you get 2 WD you really should get the positive traction rear end or what ever the manufacturer is calling it. But our ramps here are not steep if your ramps are steep then you might want to look at 4WD.

[lewisb13]

I had a situation the other day where I NEEDED 4WD. The water is really low right now and when backing in the trailer to pick the boat up, the trailer fell off the end of the slab of concrete. My buddy tried to pull the trailer back up onto the concrete to no avail. Needed 4wd. I come from Detroit and we dont buy vehicles where ANY of the engineering is done in a foreign country. :-)

[zegm]

I had a situation the other day where I NEEDED 4WD. The water is really low right now and when backing in the trailer to pick the boat up, the trailer fell off the end of the slab of concrete. My buddy tried to pull the trailer back up onto the concrete to no avail. Needed 4wd. I come from Detroit and we dont buy vehicles where ANY of the engineering is done in a foreign country. :-)

Lewisb13,
I have been an automotive engineer for over 15 years. Been to Detroit a zillion times. Hate to burst your bubble but many of the parts on domestic vehicle are designed in a foreign country. I worked in Atlanta at a company called IWKA where we had 40% of the exhaust hose and decoupler market. IWKA stands for Industrial Works Karlsrule which is a German company. Mahle makes pistion for all three of the big three. Another German Company with factories in the USA. Bosch makes the brake calibers for the Ford 150 (bought the Allied Signal Bendix Plants) and many other applications. Again another German company. You would be surprised to find out the probably less than 50% of the parts suppliers are American owned. Most of what the American auto industry does is Assemble the parts, they don't make any of them. Or very little if they do. Now these same suppliers are supplying the Japanese vehicles made here in the US too!
But I would get the Sierra! :)

[wolfeman131]

I agree with the above that you'll get better gas mileage from a 2WD, and better resale from a 4WD. Most importantly, I agree that at sometime, you're going to need 4WD with the boat due to ramp conditions. A friend suggested that I get 4WD and stated it pretty simple, "When you find yourself needing 4WD and don't have 4WD, you might end up costing yourself a WHOLE lot more in the end." I rarely use it, but love having the peace of mind.

[lewisb13]

Lewisb13,
I have been an automotive engineer for over 15 years. Been to Detroit a zillion times. Hate to burst your bubble but many of the parts on domestic vehicle are designed in a foreign country. I worked in Atlanta at a company called IWKA where we had 40% of the exhaust hose and decoupler market. IWKA stands for Industrial Works Karlsrule which is a German company. Mahle makes pistion for all three of the big three. Another German Company with factories in the USA. Bosch makes the brake calibers for the Ford 150 (bought the Allied Signal Bendix Plants) and many other applications. Again another German company. You would be surprised to find out the probably less than 50% of the parts suppliers are American owned. Most of what the American auto industry does is Assemble the parts, they don't make any of them. Or very little if they do. Now these same suppliers are supplying the Japanese vehicles made here in the US too!
But I would get the Sierra! :)

I guess I should have clarified. We dont buy vehicles where any of the clay modeling, bare bones powertrain design, wind tunnel, engine dyno, etc, is done over seas. :-)

[zegm]

I guess I should have clarified. We dont buy vehicles where any of the clay modeling, bare bones powertrain design, wind tunnel, engine dyno, etc, is done over seas. :-)

I am bad, I won't buy from across the Pacific but I have bought from across the Atlantic for years. I have had 4 Chevy/GMC trucks without any problems althought the last Chevy Silverado 1500 2WD, the transmission started to whine while towing with 125k on the vehicle.
My wife's last 2 vehicles were made in Mexico, the Chevy Avalanche and the Volkswagon Jetta TDI. One American, one German both assembled in Mexico.

I must say I LOVE my VW Touareg but even it isn't made in Germany. It is assembled in Solvakia with a German Engine and a Japanese made transmission. It is a Global World now, with Volkswagon about to open their new plant in Chattanooga Tennesee. They might even produce their new Pickup truck there, which is currently made in Brazil. A small truck with a diesel and if they bring it here I might have to get one of them.

[Razzman]

A few things to consider when buying a truck, plan ahead for what you might need it for. First off what else might it be used for? Don't know where you live but you stated it's only a mile to the lake. Do you ever tow farther? What if you wanted to? Comfort is also something to consider, full size trucks are roomier inside as well as bed size.

Yeah 2WD is more economical, but typically it's only a mile or two a gallon. Every truck i've owned has been 4WD, you'll never see me slipping and sliding pulling the boat outta the water. A full size truck also pulls much better than a mid size over long distance or hills. If you never plan to do any of these then a mid size will probably fit the bill

My current truck is an '07 GMC Sierra Crew Cab 4WD 5.3L and it does everthing i want it too. BUT my next will be a deisel as the 5.3L struggles a bit in the mountains to haul 4,000+ pounds up steep grades.

[viking]

Don't know where you live? Not in your profile. But here in the North I wouldn't buy anything but a 4WD. I've had many a tow rig and current is Sierra 2500 Duramax. I won't buy a gas guzzler again. It's diesel from here on out for me!

[maxpower220]

The Sierra has to be the biggest of the trucks and probably the highest tow rating. I would look at total truck weight as I assume you have an LSV. Also, look at warranties. All they all set up for towing, if so, take a test ride with your boat attached.

I am biased, because I support American companies as much as possible (with a few exceptions). Trying to be unbiased, I really like my GM truck a lot. It was a better ride, fit and finish, and interior than everything that I tested last year.

[zegm]

Don't know where you live? Not in your profile. But here in the North I wouldn't buy anything but a 4WD. I've had many a tow rig and current is Sierra 2500 Duramax. I won't buy a gas guzzler again. It's diesel from here on out for me!

I must totally agree with the diesel issue. I sold our 1500 Silverado because of the issues of towing it. When you put the GM trucks into tow haul mode you are going into 3rd gear and out of 4th. But due to the 87 octane gasoline I was using the truck would detonate (it was 96+ F degrees outside) and the knock sensors would shift the truck back into 4th. So I had this in and out of 3rd and 4th gear thing going on and it drove me crazy. So I decided to find a Duromax Crew Cab Diesel. Now these ARE expensive so you might want to look for a used one (new over 40k). I only bought the VW because they sold a very, very few Touaregs here with a 5.0Liter V-10 TDI diesel and being a sports car fanatic (sorry Ed I am going to mention BMW here, get over it) and because my we love my wife's Jetta TDI diesel (40mpg at any speed) I decided on it instead as it goes around curves better than any truck could and gets 18.5 mpg in town. But anyway now I am a TOTAL diesel fanatic. The Touareg never shifts down from 6th gear while towing the Moomba and all it takes is a little step on the gas pedal to pass someone even with the boat behind it. Just before the finacial crash GM was going to start putting a new V-8 4.5Liter diesel in their 1500's well that got killed but if gas ever goes up again you bet you will see it as they had already tooled up for production and were all set to release it. Finally, the diesels powered vehicles of ANY brand hold their value extremely well! In the long run you would save money.

[Hoopskier]

Hey Guys,
Im going to need a new truck. Going to give my SUV to my wife and want a pickup. I drive about 80 miles a day but only tow boat about 1 mile a season,in and out of the lake, or to clean boat up mid season,so I wouldnt be towing long distance.
Does anyone have any expierience with any of these 3 trucks? Ive looked at the Tacoma,GMC Sierra and Nissan Frontier.(all 2 door small models) All are about same price. Reviews on the Tacoma are not great. The Sierra looks ok, ok reliabilty on low milage ,I dont know about long distance. And Frontier looks great, a little bigger, comfortable and about the same price as Sierra. Nissan has a reliable reputation. The Frontier is a bigger truck, so will be more difficult to park in city. Do you get better gas milage with 2 wheel drive instead of 4WD? I also dont mind buying a demo or 2010 truck, and seems like as the year is closing , its a good time to negotiate any left over 2010"s. So I guess its between the Frontier and the Sierra.
Frontier 2010 $18,999 Has a rebate $800 and seem anxious to sell truck
Sierra 2011 $18,999 Have not negotiated yet
Tacoma 2011 $21,000 Firm on Price

Any help appreciated

My vote for boat pulling, would be the Serria. To pull my OB I have the choice of my Ford Explorer (V6 4WD) or the wifes GMC Serria (V8 4WD). V6 vs V8, Mid size vs Full size. The Serria gets it done better. Both get similar MPG. My dad has a 02 Toyota Tacoma, nice truck, 4wd, similar MPG as the others, but just the towing aspect, still the V8 Serria.

Since your are more or less picking a daily driver, go with your preferences, styling, comfort, MPG, budget. As long as the vehicle you choose has the ability to tow your boat (safely). I am in similar sitution, long work commutes, short tows with the boat. I use the Explorer.

[Razzman]

So I decided to find a Duromax Crew Cab Diesel. Now these ARE expensive so you might want to look for a used one (new over 40k).

Nope, try average of $50-55K new here on the west coast! :( The new 2011 Denali Limited is $62K!

[Ian Brantford]

The two strongest contenders to fit the OP's needs are not on the list:

- Ford F150
- Honda Ridgeline

Among the trucks listed in this thread, the Ridgeline is by far the most versatile and the best daily driver (independent rear suspension). A short test drive on a bumpy road will bear this out (as it has for many Ridgeline owners who came from other brands). I get 24 MPG US on the highway. Among the mid-sized trucks, it is the only one that has a full-sized cab that can comfortably carry five adults, and the only one that has four feet between the wheel wells for carrying standard construction supplies. It is the only truck with a trunk, which is shockingly handy. It will probably remain reliable for twice as long as the GMC or Nissan. It has the best slippery-road handling among pick-ups. It only handles moderate off-roading, and can only be lifted 2in. Some aftermarket accessories will cost more due to its unique shape.

BTW, disregard MSRP, as Honda oddly does not advertise rebates. Also, the people who wrote some of the Ridgeline commercials appear to be on some serious drugs. Eesh.

The Ridgeline will tow your boat very well. Your older LSV will be well within its 5000 lb towing capacity. I did same-day head-to-head comparison with a 1997 Silverado (w/tow package) for handling while towing my XLV. The only thing that the Ridgeline could use is extension mirrors. It is designed and now assembled in the U.S.A. See http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums for a deluge of information, including honest comparisons by many people who were really doing their homework while shopping.

I probably would not pass up a Touareg if some fantastic bargain on one crossed my way. :-) However, the OP wants a pickup truck.

The Avalanche is also very versatile and has rear coils springs for better comfort... but again I would not buy one because is made by GM.

Ford seems to be the only Detroit brand that seems to finally "get it" with respect to quality, and that's only recently. They also have a new line of efficient engines for their trucks. Both Ford and Honda are expected to have entirely new offerings in their trucks by next spring, so my advice is to wait until then if you can stand to do so. Then you'll have both old and new models from which to choose for these strong brands.

I strongly agree with the other posters about 4WD. You will probably encounter a situation where it will prevent a VERY stressful issue, whether or not the boat is involved, compared to a RWD-only truck. It will probably avoid a great many marginally troublesome situations, too.

[zegm]

Nope, try average of $50-55K new here on the west coast! :( The new 2011 Denali Limited is $62K!

Well I was trying not to sway his opinion too much! :)

I bought my Touareg for 43k with 14k miles on it from a VW dealer used with the factory waranty extended to 75k miles. It was pretty much brand spanking new. When I found the window sticker in the glovebox I was shocked to see that it was 68.5k and that was in 2006!!! Now I got a good deal! The gas Touaregs are nowwhere near that cost though.

[NCSUmoomba]

I am confused. Out of those three trucks listed, there is only one full size truck. I would not even consider the other two. Full size boats should be pulled with full size vehicles. Also, four wheel drive is very nice getting up steep and wet ramps. Pick-ups are always light in the rear (over the drive wheels) and the majority of the weight of the boat is leaning down the hill. I see guys in two wheel drive trucks spinning the rear tires all the way up the ramp all the time. I put my truck in four wheel drive and pull right up.

[LSV04]

Great inf0

Test driving the Sierra today, Both have cash back of 3200-5000. Huge help cause money is tight, 1st kid in college.2nd kid next year. But the Moomba is paid in full!!! Thats all that matters. Still riding here in the Northeast.

Thanks Guys

[thesack]

From the sounds of it, the ability to tow the boat is really not an issue. Especially since the wife will still have the SUV and the fact that you are doing such limited towing of your boat. But you are looking as to which truck will get you better fuel mileage for your daily driving. I own an 09 F150, so I am not going to say which vehicle of the 3 I would choose, because I do not know much about any of them. With that said I will say the folllowing. Go with the 4WD over the 2WD if you live in an area that is ever affected by rain, snow, ice, or hail. Yes it will cost you some MPG, but the added security is nice to have. Make sure that the interior size of the truck gives you enough room. And unless you are going to put some type of cover over the bed of the truck, I wouldn't count this area as useable space full time. Compare each of the trucks on edmunds.com. Take each vehicle for an overnight/24 hour test drive and see how well it fits into your daily life, this saved me from making a mistake when i got my 09. Just an FYI when it comes to F150's there is a 3-5K, depending on model and cab, that the dealer is able to come down on price, this is before rebates. Good luck in your search

[skiyaker]

I tow my 08 OBV regularly with my 2007 Frontier. I have the 4x4 crew cab and for a "small truck" I think it's solid. My dad has a cabin that requires a pull up about 1/4 mile steep gravel hill and the truck does just fine. I pulled about 5 hrs each way to Kentucky and back and launched at a ramp that I can best describe as off roading with a boat and trailer. I wanted a truck that my family would fit in (my boys are 3 and 5) but also would fit in my garage- I don't like to scrape windows in the winter. It does fine towing my boat- the towing capacity is listed at 6100# but that would be pushing it. Keep in mind my boat weighs in at about 3000# dry wt- If I had a bigger boat I would want a bigger truck. I've towed my neighbor's 24 ft supra a time or two and wouldn't want to do it over long distances but if you're towing only a mile or two here and there it wouldn't be an issue. It gets 20-22 mpg on the highway without a boat. Sure if the world was perfect I'd have a 4 car garage and a big truck along with a supra 22ssv and an outback on the side- but I've got what I've got. Let me know if you have any questions about this truck.

[moombadaze]

my vote isfull size 4x4 truck or suv because I once got stuck on a ramp in a 2wd trying to pull up a empty trailer-just launched the boat. Then was not able to upgrade the boat because of the smaller truck I owned---think for the future possible needs, better to have and use than to need and not have

[papou]

The two strongest contenders to fit the OP's needs are not on the list:

- Ford F150
- Honda Ridgeline

Among the trucks listed in this thread, the Ridgeline is by far the most versatile and the best daily driver (independent rear suspension). A short test drive on a bumpy road will bear this out (as it has for many Ridgeline owners who came from other brands). I get 24 MPG US on the highway. Among the mid-sized trucks, it is the only one that has a full-sized cab that can comfortably carry five adults, and the only one that has four feet between the wheel wells for carrying standard construction supplies. It is the only truck with a trunk, which is shockingly handy. It will probably remain reliable for twice as long as the GMC or Nissan. It has the best slippery-road handling among pick-ups. It only handles moderate off-roading, and can only be lifted 2in. Some aftermarket accessories will cost more due to its unique shape.

BTW, disregard MSRP, as Honda oddly does not advertise rebates. Also, the people who wrote some of the Ridgeline commercials appear to be on some serious drugs. Eesh.

The Ridgeline will tow your boat very well. Your older LSV will be well within its 5000 lb towing capacity. I did same-day head-to-head comparison with a 1997 Silverado (w/tow package) for handling while towing my XLV. The only thing that the Ridgeline could use is extension mirrors. It is designed and now assembled in the U.S.A. See http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums for a deluge of information, including honest comparisons by many people who were really doing their homework while shopping.

I probably would not pass up a Touareg if some fantastic bargain on one crossed my way. :-) However, the OP wants a pickup truck.

The Avalanche is also very versatile and has rear coils springs for better comfort... but again I would not buy one because is made by GM.

Ford seems to be the only Detroit brand that seems to finally "get it" with respect to quality, and that's only recently. They also have a new line of efficient engines for their trucks. Both Ford and Honda are expected to have entirely new offerings in their trucks by next spring, so my advice is to wait until then if you can stand to do so. Then you'll have both old and new models from which to choose for these strong brands.

I strongly agree with the other posters about 4WD. You will probably encounter a situation where it will prevent a VERY stressful issue, whether or not the boat is involved, compared to a RWD-only truck. It will probably avoid a great many marginally troublesome situations, too.


comming from a Ridgeline i could say that pulling my boat on the highway it was not strong enough it was very hard on gas if your pulling more than 3500 LB i would`t buy a Ridgeline . My new truck is a f 150 with a 5.4 it pulls great and cheaper then the Ridgeline on gas on the highway.

[Ian Brantford]

comming from a Ridgeline i could say that pulling my boat on the highway it was not strong enough it was very hard on gas if your pulling more than 3500 LB i would`t buy a Ridgeline . My new truck is a f 150 with a 5.4 it pulls great and cheaper then the Ridgeline on gas on the highway.

What year of Ridgeline did you have? I bought a 2009 model (when 2008 models were still around and discounted) specifically because of the engine/transmission revisions that were made then. While its peak torque/power is barely changed, it has significantly more mid-range torque. Yes, you have to let it rev up on the uphill areas. It's made to do that, though it feels weird if you are used to V8's. I expect that when more people start using Ford's new high-output 3.5L V6 Ecoboost engine for trucks, there will be a lot more popular comfort with this notion.

Yes, the fuel efficiency drops quite a bit when towing heavy, possibly even lower than a recent V8 full-size when on the highway. Given that the handling is stable and that towing accounts for a minority of my driving time, I would not trade the Ridgeline for a vehicle that is far less appropriate for my needs the rest of the time. I have a full-size truck available (Dad's Silverado) anytime that I want to use it. I don't.

I do have a concern with the other mid-sized trucks (Tacoma and Frontier). They have solid axles and leaf springs. They aren't that heavy themselves compared to the their advertised hauling capacity, which is made to rival a basic half-ton full-size truck. Their rear ends tend to bounce a lot when not heavily weighed down -- more than mid-sized SUV's with softer suspension. That could be a problem on a bumpy road... or when towing a trailer that does not have a lot of tongue weight.

[sailing217]

All good points but the only thing I can add is get 4x4.

I have a montero with V6 and get 20mpg on the highway, 15 city, 7-8 towing our at the limit when loaded with gear boat. I'm waiting for a used Audi Q7 TDI to come my way. I won't take our V6 through the mountains. Already upgraded suspension and brakes, just the engine/tranny scare me. stopping is the most important part. The MDX/Ridgeline is very similar to our truck but a bit better MPG.

If you have your wife's suv for harder towing then I think something like a ridgeline or F150 V6-eco would be good choices and might get you into 20mpg+ on the highway. Used ridgeline as usually nobody tows with them and only used to haul home projects the wife makes you do to/from the Home Depot. You can get one for $20k pretty easy and look for no marks on the inside of the hitch.

[zegm]

All good points but the only thing I can add is get 4x4.

I'm waiting for a used Audi Q7 TDI to come my way.


Note: The Porsche Cayanne, the VW Touareg and the Q7 are all the same platform all made on the same assembly line. Same chasis, brakes, engines (different states of tune here) exhaust etc. The Porsche's hold their value due to the name. The VW Touareg prices drop quickly, unless you just want the Audi version check out the V-8 Touareg. I would tell you to check the V-10 TDI diesel like mine but since they stopped selling them in the US the value of these are actually rising. It is good to know that I can still get what I paid for my Touareg even after owning it for 2 years and putting 30k miles on it.

[Ian Brantford]

I have a montero with V6 and get 20mpg on the highway, 15 city, 7-8 towing our at the limit when loaded with gear boat. I'm waiting for a used Audi Q7 TDI to come my way. I won't take our V6 through the mountains. Already upgraded suspension and brakes, just the engine/tranny scare me. stopping is the most important part. The MDX/Ridgeline is very similar to our truck but a bit better MPG.

I had not read anything about the Montero until today. That's interesting that they went with independent rear suspension and unibody for the 3rd generation. It handled bumps better, but still had handling problems at speed. I can see why you upgraded the suspension. Kudos for going to the trouble to get the handling that you should have.

The Ridgeline handles like an AWD sports sedan. Some owners report that it is still stable when hitting the limiter at 112 MPH. A stunt that Honda did at a customer appreciation event was to take some of them as passengers (professional driver), with 1000 lbs of unsecured lead shot in the bed, through a wacky obstacle course at up to 70 MPH. Nice.


If you have your wife's suv for harder towing then I think something like a ridgeline or F150 V6-eco would be good choices and might get you into 20mpg+ on the highway. Used ridgeline as usually nobody tows with them and only used to haul home projects the wife makes you do to/from the Home Depot. You can get one for $20k pretty easy and look for no marks on the inside of the hitch.
D'oh. I completely forgot to report on my own mileage when towing. At 60 MPH, it's 12-ish MPH while towing my XLV. I had the tower up and the bimini was rolled up in its jacket (attached to the tower). That's going by the trip computer, but it has shown to be pretty accurate. Consumption is mainly an issue of wind resistance at highway speed on level ground. I'd guess that towing an LSV would yield 15-16 MPH.

[schuylski]

I've got a Tacoma, and I can agree with whoever was talking about bumps when not towing or weighed down. It's a far cry from a sport SUV...

But I've had no issues towing an LSV with it. Taken several 2 and a half hour trips with it. Around 11 mpg when towing on the highway around 65. Up hills it definitely doesn't feel like it's going on its own- you need step on it, but it hasn't been an issue and I'm not needing to go 70 up a hill. Haven't been in a situation where I needed 4x4 yet, but I like not worrying about when that situation may arise. I get 20 sometimes 21 mpg when not towing. Yes ideally it would be a full size truck, but it is what it is- this worked out better for me.

ALSO hasn't surprise accelerated on its own yet! I'm holding my breath waiting for that one:p

[saskyrider]

dodge ram 1500! I bought mine last fall and I have just over 35K on it. Absolutely love it.... Tons of power and when I took the 8 hour trip to pick up my 04LSV I got 22.5 mpg ( not us mpg either!!!) and on the way home I averaged just over 17. The ride is the best out of any truck I have ever owned and I've owned all of the big three!

geoff

[NCSUmoomba]

One thing to not forget when calculating tow weights, the trailer can weigh almost 1000 pounds, making a 3000# boat a 4000# load.

[saskyrider]

yep.... my boat is 3000lbs and the trailer is 800lbs according to the sticker.

05 lsv

[skiyaker]

yep.... my boat is 3000lbs and the trailer is 800lbs according to the sticker.

05 lsv

plus add gas, cooler, boards and all the other random crap and it adds up. I always try to tow it as dry as possible for long distances.

[dru1974]

Ihave the same ride as saskyrider....but am wondering how people can feel safe with such a small tow vehicle. Yes like a Honda ridge line...crazy

[skiyaker]

man no doubt that's why I'm in the market for one of these!

[Ian Brantford]

Ihave the same ride as saskyrider....but am wondering how people can feel safe with such a small tow vehicle. Yes like a Honda ridge line...crazy

I can answer that.

Firstly, I read up on the Ridgeline's design. What I found contradicted my assumptions about how a truck had to be built (i.e. two-piece body bolted to a frame). Older designs work well enough and can be cheaply built. They are probably still the most appropriate for very long wheelbase applications, where it's better to allow twist than to design for rigidity. I found that the Ridgeline is not strictly a unit-body design. It has both unit-body and ladder frame, welded together. This is partly why it is so friggin' heavy (4500 lbs) for its outward size. Gary Flint, the large project leader for the Ridgeline's design team, spent a couple of years doing public presentations, demo videos, meet&greets and Internet forum postings to explain the features and capacities of the truck. His style is unflinchingly that of a serious engineer without marketing hype. It is not just a Pilot SUV with an open bed; they share very few parts because so many were strengthened for the Ridgeline.

Secondly, I scoured Internet forums specifically to find owners who did a lot of towing at the Ridgeline's advertised limits. I found several who had done many thousands or tens of thousands of miles of it and were happy with it. A couple of them, mainly beginners with travel trailers rather than boats, needed WDH or sway reducers before they were satisfied. They were a small minority.

Thirdly, I did same-day tests to compare the experience of towing my XLV, between the Ridgeline (no towing package required) and a 1997 Silverado (with towing package). They were very similar, even when I dared to try to produce a "wild ride". The Ridgeline is also much more sure-footed (towing or not) on poor road surfaces.

So, that's how!

I have a counter-question: can you quantify what you mean by "such a small tow vehicle"? Furthermore, can you do it in a way that doesn't make yesteryear's full-sized truck owners appear crazy for doing the same towing as today? There has been a lot of size creep in the truck market. Some of today's mid-sized trucks are heavier than the full-sized trucks of as little as 15 years ago. I can make a chart for you if needed.

[Canuckle Head]

I tow my boat with an 05 MDX and it does a reasonable job. If I plan on traveling long distances with her I make sure the tank is empty. Although it makes the back end drop more because the tongue weight is increased with the gas tank being empty in the boat. It sure climbs waaaay better empty than full though that's for sure!