Integrated Bow Sac Install (Newty) - 2010 LSV

[TL7]

I'm ready to add the IBS to our LSV, and I plan on doing it like Newty has laid out (link below). I have 5 main questions that I'm mulling over.....

https://forum.moomba.com/showthread.php?t=11410

1. Before I dive into it, is there any scenario that I would want to just fill the IBS and not the center sac? I don't really feel the need to isolate it, but before I get started figured I'd ask.

2. Is the one pump added to empty the IBS adequate? I know the reason for the 90 elbow is to help with draining, but how does it work so far for those that have done the install?

3. I know it was touched on earlier, but should I be worried at all about tying it to the center empty switch? I realize they will be about the same capacity when full so the empty times should be similar, but I can't imagine it's good for the pumps to run dry if something were to happen. For example, what if the IBS only got filled a quarter to half full - then when draining it would finish half as quickly as the center, so for the duration that the center was draining the front empty pump would be running dry. Should I just get a jabsco type pump to be safe?

4. 3/4" spring check (must be spring, not ball or swing checks) - Where can I get this and does someone have a PN so I know I am getting the correct thing?

5. If anyone has done this install that has the programmed timers, how many minutes do you have it programmed for (center + IBS)? This one isn't that important as I can time it on the water once done, but figured while I'm already bugging you guys might as well go the lazy route. Guess I'm showing my work ethics now....

Thanks in advance for the help, and thanks to Newty for the procedure. If these questions have simple solutions that make me look like an idiot, well then I guess my wife has been correct all these years :D

[mmandley]

I'm ready to add the IBS to our LSV, and I plan on doing it like Newty has laid out (link below). I have 5 main questions that I'm mulling over.....

https://forum.moomba.com/showthread.php?t=11410

1. Before I dive into it, is there any scenario that I would want to just fill the IBS and not the center sac? I don't really feel the need to isolate it, but before I get started figured I'd ask.

I dont see why you would ever fill only the nose, not the locker because the locker sinking the center of the boat and the IBS will sink the nose.

2. Is the one pump added to empty the IBS adequate? I know the reason for the 90 elbow is to help with draining, but how does it work so far for those that have done the install?

I only added the 1 pump as a drain, i thought about adding a fill pump but my bag doesnt have enough inlets, plus you would have to modify the manifold in the V Drive area. The center bag fill pump works great on mine.

3. I know it was touched on earlier, but should I be worried at all about tying it to the center empty switch? I realize they will be about the same capacity when full so the empty times should be similar, but I can't imagine it's good for the pumps to run dry if something were to happen. For example, what if the IBS only got filled a quarter to half full - then when draining it would finish half as quickly as the center, so for the duration that the center was draining the front empty pump would be running dry. Should I just get a jabsco type pump to be safe?

On the 08s like mine and Newty we have aerator pumps so there's no damage if it runs drys. If you have the Jabsco pumps you don't want to let them run dry or the impellers will burn out.

4. 3/4" spring check (must be spring, not ball or swing checks) - Where can I get this and does someone have a PN so I know I am getting the correct thing? You can get them at plumbing supply stors.

Just ask for a 1 way spring check that allows water in 1 direction but not the other, they will know exactly what you need.

5. If anyone has done this install that has the programmed timers, how many minutes do you have it programmed for (center + IBS)? This one isn't that important as I can time it on the water once done, but figured while I'm already bugging you guys might as well go the lazy route. Guess I'm showing my work ethics now....

Me and Newty don't have programmed timers, but there was no issue tying mine into the ski locker drain pump.

Thanks in advance for the help, and thanks to Newty for the procedure. If these questions have simple solutions that make me look like an idiot, well then I guess my wife has been correct all these years :D

Responded under each of your quotes.

[newty]

mmandley hit the head on the nail. The thing i"m worried about are those timers. Can you program the timer to fill longer and empty shorter? What would be killer is to figure out a way to use your original ballast pump empty and fill the bow sac.

Here's what you could do. Instead of adding aerator pump under the drivers side, add another 90 to the floor and have them combine into a manifold at the rear of the bag instead of the front. This way when you kick on the empty pump it would draw from both bags.
I would do away with the check and the vent on the floor bag and run it to fill the bow bag, add a vent to the front/top of the bow bag.
This will accomplish a few things,
Once the floor bag is full it will run straigh to the bow bag.
Once the bow bag is full it will overflow out of the new vent out of the original thru-hull.
When you empty, the pump will draw the floor bag down first.
Once the floor bag is empty it will draw off the 2 90's. and empty the bow.
The only thing is you don't want, is to try to empty the bow bag through the floor bag because once the floor bag is empty it will be flat and water will not travel through it. As I said earlier I would try to make a small manifold at the rear of the locker so that the pump will pull off both bags equally.

Sounds good on paper anyway!;)

[TL7]

MMandley - thanks for the responses. I didn't see any reason to fill the front without the center, just wanted to make sure there wasn't anything I haven't thought of.

Newty, that sounds logical. And I'm pretty sure I have an idea of what you said in my head, but a bit confused on the placement of the additional 90 as well as the manifold. When you say rear of the locker, you mean rear of the floor locker, correct? The pump would be in the rear of the locker with a manifold splitting to both bags; the bottom drain of the center sac and the bottom right driver's side drain on the IBS?

I can adjust the timer for filling for as long as needed. There is no timer for the empty, it's continuous. It has an auto shutoff once it's run dry for either 5 or 8 seconds, I don't remember the actual time. So I assume if I set it up the way you described with the manifold, it should work fine as once all the water is drained it will shut off anyway. This would definitely be an easier set up using the existing pump - assuming I can get it set up correctly!

[newty]

Correct. As far as the 90 goes, each leg of the bow sac has a drain. Now in the pics of my install you can see where the overflow comes up through the floor and 90's to the bag for filling, that way when you empty the sac the 90 keeps the hose close to the floor and allows that side of the sac to drain back to the floor sac. I would drill an identical hole on the opposite side for the other leg drain and have the two drains combine at the manifold near the pump in the floor locker. Those legs will want to drain to the lowest point, and if you remove the vent for the floor locker, when the floor sack is dry it will create suction on both legs of the bow sac. Just don't forget to make a vent on the bow sac.

Dang! I need to go to work for Wakemakers!:p

[TL7]

Thanks a ton - it's clear now. I've ordered the sac, once I get it and all the stuff I'll be starting this project. I'll be sure to report back once done.

[newty]

Take lots of pics and add it to the how to on my install so people can see how the different systems work.

[brain_rinse]

1.) I do fill my bow sac only quite a bit. We'll have a group of 6 or so and everyone sits in the cabin area so all I need is some weight up front to get the wake looking good. Of course that only lasts a few runs and then we end up filling the rest of the bags and making a tsunami sized wake. :)

[TL7]

Newty, now that I have the sac and am ready to get rolling, I have a few more questions. I've drawn a horrible diagram of my translation of your idea. Only the left leg of the bow sac has a drain hole, so I guess that will have to do. Is this what you were thinking?

[newty]

No more like this, but if your sure your bag doesn't have the right drain leg then that would work fine. You may have to help the water out on the right side a little.

Where is the vent on the floor sack now? Front or back?

[TL7]

Newty - first and foremost I appreciate all your help.

The center sac's vent is on the rear of the sac. I'm not even sure where it exits the boat, but the way it looks I think it ties into the starboard rear thru hull.

Yes, the IBS only has one drain fitting on the left leg. I would have thought it would have one on each leg. This is one I bought off of someone on WW for $150 (blue wasn't my first choice but did save me some $$), so maybe it's an older model? So considering the configuration, if I run it as your diagram, the line to the right leg will attach at the top of the bag. How will this affect the draining?

Brainstorming here, but what if I installed it upside down? Could I use the intended fill port on the left leg (which will then be the right leg) as a vent? Lastly, if that's an option, I would have to use the 90 degree quick connects on the bottom of the bag. Would the weight of the leg crush or break the quick connects?

[TL7]

TTT - any thoughts on installing upside down?

[brain_rinse]

Honestly I'd sell that bag to someone who doesn't plan to integrate it and buy one with a drain in each leg. Just my opinion.

[TL7]

So the newer ones have drains in each leg?

[brain_rinse]

Yep .

[TL7]

Last question....can you add a port to a fat sac or am I just asking for trouble?

[brain_rinse]

Not sure, but based on how they are reinforced around the ports I'd think not. IIRC mmandley has the same bag and I think he picks up the one leg at the end of the day to drain the remaining water over to the other side. So you can make it work.

[mmandley]

i have a similar bag yes it has 1 port in each leg and a port in the center. I fill on the left leg, drain on the right leg and vent the center.

I have water left in the fill leg but its very minimal to be honest. I was quite surprised when i used it the first time.

I dont mind it as i dont pull it out till end of season when i do my big winter clean before storage.