Prices - 2 part question

[sleepyluke]

Alright, I know this is a can of worms question and will get a million versions of the asnwer but here goes.

Realistically in a boat, what is the difference between the asking price and the buy it price? I know the asking is not usually what they sell for and realize that new vs used is a difference as well, but is 10% a decent rule of thumb, or vary depending on the weather, sun and moon alignment and how big of a bind a person got into.

Part 2 - does the price difference usually increase during the winter/spring, or just more availability and lower asking prices, or just a myth on the better buying side of things?

Thanks

[maxpower220]

Part 2 is easier: Prices do vary based on the time of year. In the spring, many people who are buying their first boat are looking and it's a good way to recover from winter. With more demand, prices go up. After the season, in the fall, some see the payment and think that they should sell to "get out from under the debt", it doesn't hurt that Christmas is coming either. Also, some sell in the fall to make room for a boat that they will order over the winter.

In the used market, there is no rule of thumb for asking and selling prices. That all depends on the reality of the seller.

[kaneboats]

All depends on how bad the seller needs money today!

[you da man]

In new boats, the best time ever to buy was Spring-Fall 2009 when the big banks went under back in Fall 2008. We probably won't see those times until the next recession. I got my boat almost 25% off asking price new when dealers were hurting. Several large dealers went bankrupt and sell offs were crazy (40%-50%). There is negotiating room, but don't expect much in the Moombas because they are already considered "price point" boats. Most Moomba dealers advertised price is close to their bottom price. Used boats vary, some people are too upside down to offer a reasonable price when trying to sell their boat. Those are usually people who put minimum down and finance for 12-15yrs. I would not recommend putting $2500 down and finance for 15yrs to keep payments low. Shop around for interest rates if you are going to finance and usually credit unions have the best rates. There are great deals time to time on used boats but you probably need to be pre-approved early so you can pull the trigger so to speak when you find something you like before someone else finds it. Example, my buddy was pre-approved for $50k when he saw a 2007 Super Air Nautique with 60hrs going for $41k This boat was only listed for less than an hour when he found it locally.

[kaneboats]

Spring of 2010 was still a good time to get one. Deals are out there if you work on it and are totally ready to jump. You almost have to miss one or two of them to be really ready.

[sleepyluke]

Well you bring up a very good point that I was going to ask, but was going to spread out the questions, but anyway here goes. I know most of the pre approved part, but do you just say i am shopping 2005 and newer Moomba boats and want $30,000 and get pre approved that way, since particular models may or may not have that loan value, or is it like a house, here is a pretend blank check let us know how much you wrote it for? Also, when boat shopping instead of car shopping they are alot more spread out geographically. How do you not just completely freak out committing to one quickly over the internet or phone or whatever, prior to even seeing the boat in person. Do you just make offers based upon full check out period, price dependant on marina check, or do you just put up $500 or so and take your chances? I know there is a little more protection with a dealer (I know this is subject too) but for the past few weeks there are 2 listings on onyinboards.com for a Malibu that were posted a day a part, different location, different price, but all the same pictures and numbers even match. With some of the better deals not lasting long, do you just offer an amount and ask them to hold till the weekend, or is this too a case by case basis, sometimes you get burned, sometimes you get lucky?

[you da man]

Pre-owned from a person is almost always the first one with the cash/check gets it. I've been with a friend and we drove 3hrs to test a boat and in that 3hr drive the guy sold it to someone who got there 15min before we did. When a couple of my friends were pre-approved, basically the bank approved them for a certain amount they wanted and when they found the boat all they had to do is go to the bank and get the check instead of waiting a day or two or over the weekend.

[saskyrider]

I just bought my boat 3 weeks ago and i went to the bank and told them the price range and year model range of boat i was looking for.... they preapproved me and then i really got serious. I had been looking for a while and the boat i bought had been on kijiji for over 6 weeks and in that time the seller lowered the price twice.... when i called him i found out he was starting a new business and sounded pretty desperate to sell it.... i offered him 2K under what he was asking and he called me back about 15min later and took it. I went the next day, but that night i emailed him a pick of the certified cheque with his name on it cause after i made the deal he had two calls from local people that night.... so he was antsy (understandably so!!) I think for the most part on a boat that is over 25K people factor in at least 2K wiggle room when their setting the price... otherwise you'll see it in the add where they'll say FIRM PRICE!

I went the way of leaving myself 2K wiggle room and only had to come down $500.00 so i was really pleased with the outcome...

Geoff

[kaneboats]

Most of the time "firm price" means they are lousy at negotiating or they owe that much. You learn the market and offer "your price". If they don't take it then you go to the next one.

[zegm]

Most of the time "firm price" means they are lousy at negotiating or they owe that much. You learn the market and offer "your price". If they don't take it then you go to the next one.

Generally speaking the day after labor day the prices of boats will start dropping like rock in a pond! I tracked some prices a few years ago using Excell and it seemed like 1000 dollars a month was not unusual. It will stay this way until the first warm spring day and then it goes the other way!

[kaneboats]

Well then either you are the exception or you are lousy at negotiating. :)

[kaneboats]

I thought you were right on the money with Stella.

[sleepyluke]

Ed I think you are the other exception, not owing anything on it, you don't have to make next months payment so you can wait and get what you want and need out of it.

Saskyrider, did you buy basically site unseen? Ask for a few extra pictures and go with it? I think at some point you have to have some trust in the deal and of course if it is junk you just walk away and are out gas.

[sleepyluke]

very true!

[zegm]

"Most of the time "firm price" means they are lousy at negotiating or they owe that much."

Hey Now!!

When I sold my 2003, I didn't owe a dime on it, and I knew I wasn't taking a penny less than my asking price.

Buyer asked me "would you take such and such", I replied with an emphatic "NO", he then said "ok".

When we decide to sell something I decide on the min price we will take. Then I jack that price way up. When it comes time to sell it the purchaser thinks they really got a good deal because they were able to talk me way down. So they feel good and jump at the deal while all along I feel good too because I got what I wanted!
I was hoping to get 3k for that old MasterCraft. I listed it for 5k and was talking down to 4.5k. Yeah he left happy and we were very happy!

[sandm]

I believe with any deal, if both the buyer and seller are happy, then it doesn't matter what you paid...

never forget in my old circuit city days managing the store one night. 2 couples, both buying the exact same camcorder package. lt was late on a sat night. at the end of the night, there was a $350 difference between what both couples paid on what started out as a $1500 package. both were happy, so in my mind, was a win. cheaper couple did homework and asked for a discount and got it, other couple didn't.

always pays to do your homework and it never hurts to try to negotiate...

[FamilyMatters]

I followed about 10 slightly used (about 1 to 4 years old) boats on ebay, craigslist and boatrader.com I checked the NADA and offered what I had cash, on 8 of the 10 boats. all 8 rejected the offer. 2 months later 2 responded one with a counter offer, one in desperation to accept. I got the boat I wanted (5 mos old) about $6000.00 under the NADA and $10,000 less than new.

I'd not buy one til you put it in the water, and run it!

With patience, and not falling in love with one boat, the strategy seemed to work, though I offended a lot of boat owners, with my low offer.

Peace

[kaneboats]

There's guys that make a living buying properties that way. Money talks. Sometimes even a little money will get it done. It's all about the timing.

[saskyrider]

I bought my boat on August 10th and i made probably 15 offers on other boats before i got this one... i have had 3 call backs this week from guys willing to accept the offer i had put in.... best one was an 07 LSV with 300 hours, guy was willing to accept 28.5K CAD. It needed PP, a cover and tower speakers...

Geoff

[sleepyluke]

Well I don't mind offending, even if I don't really mean to. I have what I am willing to spend, want more than I can afford, and will gladly see if someone will take it. You never know when it will be an offensive moment vs I'll take it moment.

[patrick232]

Well I don't mind offending, even if I don't really mean to. I have what I am willing to spend, want more than I can afford, and will gladly see if someone will take it. You never know when it will be an offensive moment vs I'll take it moment.

Starting with the emails now and will send some offensive offers now, but when the snow flies they might not sound so offensive. Currently I found a 2007 Super Air 210 TE for $43K with under 100 hours, sent them an email asking about an offer in the $30's. Also have called a couple of dealers with 2010 Moomba LSV, looking for the low $40's on a new one. Only time will tell and if we have to bum boat rides no big deal, since I store a couple of boats for my buddies.

[sleepyluke]

I like the way you think

[kaneboats]

It only takes one, right?

[patrick232]

It only takes one, right?

Sometimes it take more than one to get the right one.

[kaneboats]

But then the right one is the "one" so it still only takes one. :confused:

[schuylski]

What if the one is the third, after seeing the fourth, but the second comes first??? Or maybe Kane is the one? :D

Got my boat towards the end of August - like someone said it helps to be in no rush, another "one" will come along... Do the research, you might miss 1 or 2, but then eventually you work out your price point and will be ready to jump on the next "one" when it comes along. And you'll love it every bit as much as the first one. And every time I say one now it sounds funny...

[viking]

As the saying goes in real estate - "the deal of the century comes around every week"

Don't be in a hurry! Don't get emotional! And you'll come across the "deal" where everybody wins.

Easier said than done :)

[vaalguy]

Haha

i would be very interested to see who on this forum didnt buy their boat from the heart, im sure 99% of everyone here bought on emotion and probably feel they paid x too much i know i did but hey the heat of the moment and getting my boat the first drive etc i have no regret

or do i haha